| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On October 31 2010 21:33 klauz619 wrote: yeah I'm sure 8-9 marines instead of 3-4 marauders will do a much better job of fending off 12 roaches. Just stop posting... | ||
|
KentHenry
United States260 Posts
 | ||
|
HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
Why? 1. BoxeR 2.BoxeR says he is having a hard time playing TvZ and if he doesn´t find a solution or a patch doesn´t come out he might switch to random 3.BoxeR gets bashed for 19 pages by people with no merits or any value whatsoever in the world of e-sports - Shit like: " Yeah he was good in BW but knows shit of SC2"+ Show Spoiler + ro8 in GSL2, has probably the best TvT we´ve seen so far " I´ve lost all respect, he just QQs. zerg imba and shit" + Show Spoiler + fact; BoxeR has nothing more in his life than e-sports, he is 30+ has no education, would literally have nothing else he can do. Also he has made more comebacks in his career than anyone, started big proteams & Airforce Ace, promoted for e-sports more than anyone you could name. Then you start thinking how much shit he must´ve gone through doing all this while keeping always his cool and natural appearance. He still shows pretty much no ego and keeps his feet to the ground...always, always thankful for his fans. What would he be if he had QQ´d even once in his career ? TL mods and banlings are great and SC2 forums cause them a ton of work but still it starts to resemble 4chan more than TL. The reason why I think TL is the best e-community ever is not only due to mod staff but also to the common poster. Here (SC2) people post like they have more merits and knowledge than actual progamers. I hope people would realize that even if you are anonymous in the internet you can still keep some humility or atleast pretend you have some. The arrogance is infuriating. | ||
|
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
I personally respect BoxeR more than any other progamer besides Jaedong, but I get frustrated and annoyed when he outright QQs in official interviews. I've said why I feel that way already, and I just can't belive how people can bow down and think that everything he says would be law when it comes to a game that is 3 months old. Sure he has feelings and ideas and frustration, like all players, but he shouldnt cry about it in interviews. Meh. | ||
|
Luvz
Norway356 Posts
On October 31 2010 Kyuki wrote: You generalize this thread way to much, though I agree with some of what you're saying. I personally respect BoxeR more than any other progamer besides Jaedong, but I get frustrated and annoyed when he outright QQs in official interviews. I've said why I feel that way already, and I just can't belive how people can bow down and think that everything he says would be law when it comes to a game that is 3 months old. Sure he has feelings and ideas and frustration, like all players, but he shouldnt cry about it in interviews. Meh. Your not getting frustrated becouse hes QQing in a offical interview, your getting frustrated becouse you play Zerg and think your better then you actually are. Wonder what u posted in Dimaga's Threads and on idra's Rants about Terran prepatch. Everything boxer says should be law... | ||
|
GQz
Australia168 Posts
| ||
|
ironside
51 Posts
The changes will be coming sooner than you think. | ||
|
Choirdrunk
Canada131 Posts
On October 31 2010 22:19 GQz wrote: IMO the metagame as of now is roughly even. We have just seen the fake BoxeR beat Fruit dealer in the GSL. FRUIT DEALER is by no means a bad zerg. Just because your previous strategies do not work with the current patch, it does not mean the game is imbalanced or that Terran is UP. It means only that you have to change your playstyle to suit the patch. We saw a LOT of aggressiveness out of fake boxer which has won him many a game in the GSL, I think this patch is going to force terran to be more aggressive and inspire less turtling as it has previously been hated for. GQz, you may very well be right in your conclusion, but the rationale is so bad. Don't use a singular pro game as evidence of balance. If we did, then patches 1.1 and, definitely, 1.2 shouldn't have happened since a zerg won the most prestigious and competitive SC2 tournament so far before 1.2 even went into effect. (Btw, I'm saying this is a BAD way to argue. I am not suggesting that FD's win negated all the zerg QQ ... much of which, even as a terran, I believed to be justified). Instead, focus on different parts of the game or units. IMO, the supply depot change coupled with terran immobility provide a degree of difficulty for terrans that ensure when two equally skilled competitors meet (at the top level ... at a level like, gold, I believe zerg is more complicated) the zerg has an advantage. Not that the zerg will win every time, just that he has an advantage that is not attributable to his analysis, strategic or tactical awareness, apm or other "skill". | ||
|
LilClinkin
Australia667 Posts
It has become much more difficult for terran to defeat zerg, but this is all relative: prior to the patching, rolling over an equally-skilled (key word: skill, as in, apm/game sense etc) zerg was a breeze. Now I believe it is a fairly balanced match-up. The biggest imbalance in the game as far as I can see is the tvp mu. P just crushes T at high levels in games that go beyond 10 minutes. Note that when I say biggest imbalance, I don't mean its grossly imba: generally the better player in tvp will emerge victorious. Over-all I'd estimate that the game is in a pretty good state of balance, the most imba situations being 55-45 when both players are of equal skill. Honestly, this is a pretty good state for an RTS that's only been out for 3 months. Problem is, with the high publicity of SC2 and the huge influx of gamers who have had little experience with BW 1 year beyond its release, they are having to learn the lessons that all of the BW vets learned long-ago: When you lose, 99% of the time it's not the game's fault, it's your own. With all of the babying that the game does for you (mbs, unlimited unit selection, almost 2x income rate per base relative to bw), it's easy to become lazy and 1a move your army and just expect to win...any bw vet can tell you through many many agonizing losses that you need meticulous control over your army and good decision making if you hope to succeed. | ||
|
Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
| ||
|
Choirdrunk
Canada131 Posts
On October 31 2010 22:30 Sanguinarius wrote: Stupid question, but are you even allowed to pick random for GSL? I dont know. I believe you're permitted. Some players did it in the qualifying rounds if I'm not mistaken. | ||
|
nihoh
Australia978 Posts
| ||
|
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On October 31 2010 22:13 Luvz wrote: Your not getting frustrated becouse hes QQing in a offical interview, your getting frustrated becouse you play Zerg and think your better then you actually are. Wonder what u posted in Dimaga's Threads and on idra's Rants about Terran prepatch. Everything boxer says should be law... You shouldnt be worth my time, but you should really try to read the posts you jump on before you go there. You should actually look up my posts in those threads (atleast dimagas) and then bite your tounge! Punk.. Edit: Stupid of me to resort to name calling. I apologize about that. User was warned for this post | ||
|
TeamSoliduss
41 Posts
Even with the patch Terran units are still incredibly cost effective. Don't bother denying it when 5 marines & 1 medivac can down 5 mutas for 1/3 of the cost and 3 marauders can take on 10 roaches if micro'ed correctly. A simple way to force a Zerg into submission is to 1) open with 5-6 marines, forcing the zerg to make zerglings since he wont' have the money to make roaches by then. 2) Meanwhile, pump out 4 hellions while building a starport. Hellion drop the back of the zerg base and fry 10 drones, pushing the zerg to make roaches. 3) While the drop is happening, make 4 vikings and as soon as the drop is foiled/pushed back go 2-shot overlords. He won't have nearly enough money nor time to tech to mutas, you'll just have to push with a few marauders & hellions to secure a win. It sounds easier said than done but should you pull it correctly you'll win 9 games out of 10, especially against a fast expanding zerg since you'll force him to spend all his cash on units a) useless for the next wave and b) not drones ! | ||
|
SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On October 31 2010 21:53 HwangjaeTerran wrote: I think this thread is the epitome of the sc2 forums state Why? 1. BoxeR 2.BoxeR says he is having a hard time playing TvZ and if he doesn´t find a solution or a patch doesn´t come out he might switch to random 3.BoxeR gets bashed for 19 pages by people with no merits or any value whatsoever in the world of e-sports - Shit like: " Yeah he was good in BW but knows shit of SC2"+ Show Spoiler + ro8 in GSL2, has probably the best TvT we´ve seen so far " I´ve lost all respect, he just QQs. zerg imba and shit" + Show Spoiler + fact; BoxeR has nothing more in his life than e-sports, he is 30+ has no education, would literally have nothing else he can do. Also he has made more comebacks in his career than anyone, started big proteams & Airforce Ace, promoted for e-sports more than anyone you could name. Then you start thinking how much shit he must´ve gone through doing all this while keeping always his cool and natural appearance. He still shows pretty much no ego and keeps his feet to the ground...always, always thankful for his fans. What would he be if he had QQ´d even once in his career ? TL mods and banlings are great and SC2 forums cause them a ton of work but still it starts to resemble 4chan more than TL. The reason why I think TL is the best e-community ever is not only due to mod staff but also to the common poster. Here (SC2) people post like they have more merits and knowledge than actual progamers. I hope people would realize that even if you are anonymous in the internet you can still keep some humility or atleast pretend you have some. The arrogance is infuriating. first of all i agree with what your are saying 100%, but i have to point out that no one should be immune to critizism, not even BoxeR, NaDa ect but ofc if you gonna critize someone(that are that good) it should be well thought out and not as you put it "4chan trolling" | ||
|
AyJay
1515 Posts
On October 31 2010 21:53 HwangjaeTerran wrote: I think this thread is the epitome of the sc2 forums state Why? 1. BoxeR 2.BoxeR says he is having a hard time playing TvZ and if he doesn´t find a solution or a patch doesn´t come out he might switch to random 3.BoxeR gets bashed for 19 pages by people with no merits or any value whatsoever in the world of e-sports - Shit like: " Yeah he was good in BW but knows shit of SC2"+ Show Spoiler + ro8 in GSL2, has probably the best TvT we´ve seen so far " I´ve lost all respect, he just QQs. zerg imba and shit" + Show Spoiler + fact; BoxeR has nothing more in his life than e-sports, he is 30+ has no education, would literally have nothing else he can do. Also he has made more comebacks in his career than anyone, started big proteams & Airforce Ace, promoted for e-sports more than anyone you could name. Then you start thinking how much shit he must´ve gone through doing all this while keeping always his cool and natural appearance. He still shows pretty much no ego and keeps his feet to the ground...always, always thankful for his fans. What would he be if he had QQ´d even once in his career ? TL mods and banlings are great and SC2 forums cause them a ton of work but still it starts to resemble 4chan more than TL. The reason why I think TL is the best e-community ever is not only due to mod staff but also to the common poster. Here (SC2) people post like they have more merits and knowledge than actual progamers. I hope people would realize that even if you are anonymous in the internet you can still keep some humility or atleast pretend you have some. The arrogance is infuriating. Sure Boxer is having trouble with other races, but is this the reason to tell blizzard they can't balance the game? I remember in other interview said something like "I don't like direction blizzard balancing goes because they want to balance team games" First of all, I don't care if your emperor, Fruitdealer, Idra or someone else - you SHOULD NEVER say Blizzard doesn't know how to balance game because first of all your just playing 1v1 and only one race and you don't know what the hell is going on outside that. On top of that Blizzard has the numbers for their balance - you do not. Finally, I really don't like people attitude to balancing game in team games. If team games reaches the point where 90% of people doing mass reaper/mass speedling in team games and have over 70% success rate actions need to be taken. We all play starcraft competitively, but let's not forget there are many other people who want to enjoy the game beyond 1v1. | ||
|
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On November 01 2010 01:05 AyJay wrote:We all play starcraft competitively, but let's not forget there are many other people who want to enjoy the game beyond 1v1. There are such things as priorities, though. There is nothing unreasonable in the sentiment that 1v1 mustn't suffer due to attempts to balance team games. Since 1v1 and team games happen to share the same units and mechanics, obviously the balancing needs of 1v1 should take absolute precedence over team games. There's also the fact that team games are largely unexplored because they aren't taken seriously enough and played competitively at a sufficiently high level. Most of problems that people experience in team games aren't due to any sort of imbalance, but due to players not exploiting all the dynamics and possibilities that team games have. - To make this more on topic: I resent the BoxeR bashing comments as much as most people do, but IMO players should refrain from publicly commenting balance issues and pressuring Blizzard into changing things sooner than it becomes obvious that the changes are needed. Let's be honest here, people play this game for money - they will welcome any changes that benefit the race they play, and frown upon any changes that don't. Perfect game balance isn't their ultimate goal (and there's no reason why it should be). Their ultimate goal is to be more successful, and if part of that depends on the game balance and balance changes, they will want the changes to be made in their favor. On the other hand, perfect game balance is Blizzard's goal. As far as game design is concerned, I find it a lot more logical to put faith in actual game developers. | ||
|
Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
Look at Nada's recent TvZ, he just wouldn't let Z get an econ advantage. He overpowered the zerg by keeping up in supply (which means terran has the advantage). The anti-Boxer sentiment really confuses me though, I can't figure out where that's coming from. Remember the last guy to complain about how broken his race is and how he's going to have to switch? It was Fruitdealer, and he won the GSL and everyone is a huge fan of his. Somehow Boxer isn't allowed to comment on balance though? My guess is that Boxer's introduction to the SC2 fans was via losses to Idra and Fruitdealer, while Fruitdealer's debut was nothing but stomping his opponents. So I'm guessing people see the complaints as coming from a low-tier player who doesn't really know the game or something (a laughable concept). I suppose that people also let you get away with complaints when it's clear to everyone a race is underpowered. When there are 2 zergs in the top 16, you can get away with calling zerg weak. When there are 4 terrans in the top 8, maybe not so much. | ||
|
Skeyser
Canada219 Posts
On November 01 2010 01:05 AyJay wrote: Sure Boxer is having trouble with other races, but is this the reason to tell blizzard they can't balance the game? I remember in other interview said something like "I don't like direction blizzard balancing goes because they want to balance team games" First of all, I don't care if your emperor, Fruitdealer, Idra or someone else - you SHOULD NEVER say Blizzard doesn't know how to balance game because first of all your just playing 1v1 and only one race and you don't know what the hell is going on outside that. On top of that Blizzard has the numbers for their balance - you do not. Finally, I really don't like people attitude to balancing game in team games. If team games reaches the point where 90% of people doing mass reaper/mass speedling in team games and have over 70% success rate actions need to be taken. We all play starcraft competitively, but let's not forget there are many other people who want to enjoy the game beyond 1v1. If you try to balance a game around too many modes you end up with WoW PvP : a complete failure of balance. | ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
It kinda makes me sad, he is top terran player and cares only about his race. I remember him shamelessly crushing a zerg in GSL 1 with 5 rax reaper, which everyone agreed to be OP (on release version of SC2). He didn't submit replay that time eventhough imbalance was pretty obvious. I lost any kind of respect for him. Terrans are not losing very hard against P or Z. And balance is debatable. But look, protoss players don't cry eventhough they suffer alot more from roach buff than Terrans. Imbalance of TvZ was very evident and IdrA/Dimaga had solid argument to whine. Its to early to say Z>T now, terrans have so many undiscovered potential. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Other Games |
|
Wardi Open
Sparkling Tuna Cup
WardiTV European League
Online Event
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
The PondCast
Replay Cast
Korean StarCraft League
CranKy Ducklings
Sparkling Tuna Cup
|
|
|
EPT
