So, I havent really seen any kind of discussion about this for anything... but I think there is a fair amount possible in abusing the pathing/targetting AI in the game against melee units by abusing workers on hold position. As long as some ranged unit is hitting the melee target, they ignore workers (as seen by SCV's repairing thors) completely. Pair this up with some kind of concave (see video) or partial wall and they just cant figure out how to get to the units and do nothing until the player forces them to hit the workers.

Anyway, its probably not too viable except for rare circumstances, but I thought I would post anyway.

PS: With about 7 SCV's you can block 4 zealots (maybe more) in an open area (and definitely a lot more on a ramp), and even if they eventually target the SCV's, it may have been worth the free shots/time they bought when the player doesnt immediately realize he has to manually target the worker concave.

bobbob

United States368 Posts

October 26 2010 07:35 GMT

I saw SeleCt doing this vs (I think) TT1 on a stream, he was getting 4gated, and he had to pull SCVs to defend his bunker, and he just sat on his ramp and the zealots couldn't get up.

Clane07226

United States72 Posts

October 26 2010 07:36 GMT

interesting find. could be useful at an expo, maybe pulling a few workers to early pressure?

but im guessing most decent players will just target them...

Wolf

Korea (South)3290 Posts

October 26 2010 07:36 GMT

Oh, so they don't figure it out ? I know they will if the workers aren't on hold, but this is certainly interesting. Could easily stop a lot of harassments with this I think, if executed properly.

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

October 26 2010 07:40 GMT

On October 26 2010 16:36 Wolf wrote:
Oh, so they don't figure it out ? I know they will if the workers aren't on hold, but this is certainly interesting. Could easily stop a lot of harassments with this I think, if executed properly.

Yea, if they are on hold no paths are ever opened at all as the SCV's dont budge even when your own units get near them. I was hoping maybe somebody could like, magic box formation move the SCV's and use them in a battle but I doubt that would work

Also, perhaps the old "float a barracks over your hold position SCV's to block the ramp" trick can come back, which prevents people from targetting your SCV's

mahnini

United States6862 Posts

October 26 2010 07:44 GMT

a simple solution would be to hold position yourself so your units target the workers

btw nice find, i didn't know that workers could block anymore!

necmon

194 Posts

October 26 2010 07:46 GMT

You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

October 26 2010 07:47 GMT

On October 26 2010 16:46 necmon wrote:
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.

Ah, thats a good point. Damn you 3d!

Gotta admit though, would be funny to see people rotating cameras in a tournament.

Wolf

Korea (South)3290 Posts

October 26 2010 07:50 GMT

I'd be so excited if that barracks trick came back, but the 3-D as you said, will prevent it..

MayorITC

Korea (South)798 Posts

October 26 2010 07:56 GMT

#10

Or just put your unit on hold position when its near the SCV and it will attack the un-targetable scv.

dimfish

United States663 Posts

October 26 2010 08:39 GMT

#11

I think this is cool. I experimented a little in the unit tester and found a quick and easy trick that might turn into something useful.

What you do is 1) wedge a couple marines (anything ranged) up against a wall to reduce the amount of surface area they have and then 2) put the ranged units on hold position, so they won't move when workers come over. Then 3) select workers and click a marine, they will walk over and get all snuggy. Last 4) put workers on hold position.

Video illustrating it

With just a few actions and a few units you can make a melee AI-proof barrier. Now someone just has to figure out how to make this useful.

TheBB

Switzerland5133 Posts

October 26 2010 08:45 GMT

#12

On October 26 2010 16:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ah, thats a good point. Damn you 3d!

Gotta admit though, would be funny to see people rotating cameras in a tournament.

Now I'm curious.... will the replay first-person view save camera state like this? I'm guessing it does, but I haven't actually seen it.

Xapti

Canada2473 Posts

October 26 2010 08:56 GMT

#13

I do this a bit vs zerglings with roaches or queens, and a bit less so vs zealots. Helps a fair bit I guess, it sorta equates to the way workers were prioritized in SC1, except here they won't attack or move, which makes it a bit worse.

kojinshugi

Estonia2559 Posts

October 26 2010 08:56 GMT

#14

On October 26 2010 17:45 TheBB wrote:

Show nested quote +

Now I'm curious.... will the replay first-person view save camera state like this? I'm guessing it does, but I haven't actually seen it.

Yes, it does.

I found this out after playing some guy who zoomed in halfway through the game and then never zoomed back out. I was wondering why he didn't see half my army run around his into the mineral line.

kaztal

Sweden68 Posts

October 26 2010 08:57 GMT

#15

On October 26 2010 17:39 dimfish wrote:
I think this is cool. I experimented a little in the unit tester and found a quick and easy trick that might turn into something useful.

What you do is 1) wedge a couple marines (anything ranged) up against a wall to reduce the amount of surface area they have and then 2) put the ranged units on hold position, so they won't move when workers come over. Then 3) select workers and click a marine, they will walk over and get all snuggy. Last 4) put workers on hold position.

Video illustrating it

With just a few actions and a few units you can make a melee AI-proof barrier. Now someone just has to figure out how to make this useful.

wow, that looks pretty serious! maybe this'll be a good way to ward of 6pools in the future.

VarmVaffel

Norway378 Posts

October 26 2010 09:18 GMT

#16

Haven't seen this too much before, gotta admit.

I think it's bullshit tbh, as it's one race this does not affect. Hopefully Blizzard will fix the pathing in some way that does't allow melee units to suffer alone at least.

Kal_rA

United States2925 Posts

October 26 2010 09:26 GMT

#17

same stuff happened in bw... medic walls, scv walls

i think it makes for some interesting/innovative play