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Hold position workers

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-26 07:38:43
October 26 2010 07:33 GMT
#1
So, I havent really seen any kind of discussion about this for anything... but I think there is a fair amount possible in abusing the pathing/targetting AI in the game against melee units by abusing workers on hold position. As long as some ranged unit is hitting the melee target, they ignore workers (as seen by SCV's repairing thors) completely. Pair this up with some kind of concave (see video) or partial wall and they just cant figure out how to get to the units and do nothing until the player forces them to hit the workers.

Anyway, its probably not too viable except for rare circumstances, but I thought I would post anyway.



PS: With about 7 SCV's you can block 4 zealots (maybe more) in an open area (and definitely a lot more on a ramp), and even if they eventually target the SCV's, it may have been worth the free shots/time they bought when the player doesnt immediately realize he has to manually target the worker concave.
bobbob
Profile Joined December 2009
United States368 Posts
October 26 2010 07:35 GMT
#2
I saw SeleCt doing this vs (I think) TT1 on a stream, he was getting 4gated, and he had to pull SCVs to defend his bunker, and he just sat on his ramp and the zealots couldn't get up.
Clane07226
Profile Joined September 2010
United States72 Posts
October 26 2010 07:36 GMT
#3
interesting find. could be useful at an expo, maybe pulling a few workers to early pressure?

but im guessing most decent players will just target them...
NecronNN
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
October 26 2010 07:36 GMT
#4
Oh, so they don't figure it out ? I know they will if the workers aren't on hold, but this is certainly interesting. Could easily stop a lot of harassments with this I think, if executed properly.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
October 26 2010 07:40 GMT
#5
On October 26 2010 16:36 Wolf wrote:
Oh, so they don't figure it out ? I know they will if the workers aren't on hold, but this is certainly interesting. Could easily stop a lot of harassments with this I think, if executed properly.

Yea, if they are on hold no paths are ever opened at all as the SCV's dont budge even when your own units get near them. I was hoping maybe somebody could like, magic box formation move the SCV's and use them in a battle but I doubt that would work

Also, perhaps the old "float a barracks over your hold position SCV's to block the ramp" trick can come back, which prevents people from targetting your SCV's
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-26 07:45:37
October 26 2010 07:44 GMT
#6
a simple solution would be to hold position yourself so your units target the workers

btw nice find, i didn't know that workers could block anymore!
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
necmon
Profile Joined September 2010
194 Posts
October 26 2010 07:46 GMT
#7
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
October 26 2010 07:47 GMT
#8
On October 26 2010 16:46 necmon wrote:
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.

Ah, thats a good point. Damn you 3d!

Gotta admit though, would be funny to see people rotating cameras in a tournament.
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
October 26 2010 07:50 GMT
#9
I'd be so excited if that barracks trick came back, but the 3-D as you said, will prevent it..
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
MayorITC
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Korea (South)798 Posts
October 26 2010 07:56 GMT
#10
On October 26 2010 16:46 necmon wrote:
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.


Or just put your unit on hold position when its near the SCV and it will attack the un-targetable scv.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
October 26 2010 08:39 GMT
#11
I think this is cool. I experimented a little in the unit tester and found a quick and easy trick that might turn into something useful.

What you do is 1) wedge a couple marines (anything ranged) up against a wall to reduce the amount of surface area they have and then 2) put the ranged units on hold position, so they won't move when workers come over. Then 3) select workers and click a marine, they will walk over and get all snuggy. Last 4) put workers on hold position.

Video illustrating it

With just a few actions and a few units you can make a melee AI-proof barrier. Now someone just has to figure out how to make this useful.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
October 26 2010 08:45 GMT
#12
On October 26 2010 16:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2010 16:46 necmon wrote:
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.

Ah, thats a good point. Damn you 3d!

Gotta admit though, would be funny to see people rotating cameras in a tournament.

Now I'm curious.... will the replay first-person view save camera state like this? I'm guessing it does, but I haven't actually seen it.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
October 26 2010 08:56 GMT
#13
I do this a bit vs zerglings with roaches or queens, and a bit less so vs zealots. Helps a fair bit I guess, it sorta equates to the way workers were prioritized in SC1, except here they won't attack or move, which makes it a bit worse.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
kojinshugi
Profile Joined August 2010
Estonia2559 Posts
October 26 2010 08:56 GMT
#14
On October 26 2010 17:45 TheBB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2010 16:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On October 26 2010 16:46 necmon wrote:
You can zoom/rotate in the game now (one of the advantages being a 3D game...). The barracks trick won't work. It creates additional effort, but it's not making it impossible to target the units.

Ah, thats a good point. Damn you 3d!

Gotta admit though, would be funny to see people rotating cameras in a tournament.

Now I'm curious.... will the replay first-person view save camera state like this? I'm guessing it does, but I haven't actually seen it.


Yes, it does.

I found this out after playing some guy who zoomed in halfway through the game and then never zoomed back out. I was wondering why he didn't see half my army run around his into the mineral line.
whatsgrackalackin420
kaztal
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden68 Posts
October 26 2010 08:57 GMT
#15
On October 26 2010 17:39 dimfish wrote:
I think this is cool. I experimented a little in the unit tester and found a quick and easy trick that might turn into something useful.

What you do is 1) wedge a couple marines (anything ranged) up against a wall to reduce the amount of surface area they have and then 2) put the ranged units on hold position, so they won't move when workers come over. Then 3) select workers and click a marine, they will walk over and get all snuggy. Last 4) put workers on hold position.

Video illustrating it

With just a few actions and a few units you can make a melee AI-proof barrier. Now someone just has to figure out how to make this useful.

wow, that looks pretty serious! maybe this'll be a good way to ward of 6pools in the future.
VarmVaffel
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway378 Posts
October 26 2010 09:18 GMT
#16
Haven't seen this too much before, gotta admit.

I think it's bullshit tbh, as it's one race this does not affect. Hopefully Blizzard will fix the pathing in some way that does't allow melee units to suffer alone at least.
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
October 26 2010 09:26 GMT
#17
same stuff happened in bw... medic walls, scv walls

i think it makes for some interesting/innovative play fun too watch too lol
keep it! haha
Jaedong.
Detectable
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway58 Posts
October 26 2010 10:27 GMT
#18
If the ramp is blocked like that, cant you just run some units up there and hold position yourself? That would pretty much smell the end of the block
"Oh it's easy, just lose your whole fucking base!" -Day[9]
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
October 26 2010 10:29 GMT
#19
hold pos scv on the ramp with auto repair is prety effective actualy in some situations.
HuHEN
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom514 Posts
October 26 2010 10:54 GMT
#20
Also useful for surrounding marauders or other kiting units.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
October 26 2010 20:01 GMT
#21
On October 26 2010 19:27 Detectable wrote:
If the ramp is blocked like that, cant you just run some units up there and hold position yourself? That would pretty much smell the end of the block

Yea, it would. But there are times when getting a few extra seconds or a couple extra shots in can make a difference. Its just another trick in the bag that you can use
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