I agree with this now, the game is in a reasonable state after the latest patch. I am sure it will still get a lot of tweaking but at this point I think all races have a somewhat even chance to win.

mahnini

United States6862 Posts

October 24 2010 20:24 GMT

#65

On October 25 2010 05:22 RoarMan wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yea it'd be nice to start seeing some positive changes though, that's where it really counts

I mean we can agree all we want but if the forums stay the same as it is, this whole thread is pointless.

yeah, personally, i think i might've been too lenient when moderating sc2 strat. i'll definitely try to crackdown more. the forum doesn't actaully look bad now but that's because a bunch of threads just got closed

rally_point

Canada458 Posts

October 24 2010 20:30 GMT

#66

people don't want to admit that they are bad.

I think this is very accurate. People don't like to blame themselves, so they blame other things (lag sometimes, their partners in group games, balance, etc, etc, etc...). In my opinion there are balance issues... but they are only noticeable at the very very top level of play. For everyone else, learning the game can overcome. Thanks for the post.

Anyways when I saw the thread title I was absolutely sure Navi was going to be in it haha

Nagano

United States1157 Posts

October 24 2010 20:31 GMT

#67

I've been waiting for someone significant to make a post like this. I've been a long time lurker, but refrained from making a post like this myself because of the irony. Anyway, thanks for this and let's keep this stickied for all the TL newcomers.

risk.nuke

Sweden2825 Posts

October 24 2010 20:33 GMT

#68

you had me at "hey listen". By god I love oot
on a serious note I think it was a great thread

Klive5ive

United Kingdom6056 Posts

October 24 2010 20:36 GMT

#69

Love the thread title
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey Listen!
Watch out!

Great post too;
I think in many ways it was beginning to die down by itself.
Right now the game is in probably the best state it's been in ever and people are beginning to move out of "beta mode" and into "enjoy the game" mode.

Maybe it is time we stopped all direct balance threads completely and turn more into the BW strategy style threads which mainly discuss specific strategies, maps and situations.

drooL

United Kingdom2108 Posts

October 24 2010 20:41 GMT

#70

very true. almost never posting in the strategy forums, just because i know i have no clue and i am just trying to learn by playing and casting and that stuff. we all have a long way to go.

RisingTide

Australia769 Posts

October 24 2010 20:43 GMT

#71

Saw the thread title, thought, "Oh god Navi has found me!", opened the thread and almost crapped myself laughing.

I completely agree with what you've written, it does seem that there is a lack of self-responsibility in regards to why someone lost. Of course many of the units in the game are powerful, that's what makes it interesting. But like in BW, there is a balanced imbalance, if you will, where all the ROFLOMGZORS units cancel each other out, and you have a dynamic and varying game.

If that's hard to comprehend, go play checkers.

Sobba

Sweden576 Posts

October 24 2010 20:43 GMT

#72

The internets has changed alot in 12 years. If starcraft 1 and BW was released 2010 im sure the forums would look the same. We are just used to expressing ourself in a diffrent way 2010 compared to 1998.

FubsyGamr

United States212 Posts

October 24 2010 20:45 GMT

#73

+1 bro, I'm right there with you!

Keep up the great work!

TLOBrian

United States453 Posts

October 24 2010 20:45 GMT

#74

I personally believe that in a game where 2 players make 0 mistakes, it should be balanced. Currently how the races work, mistakes are less punished by other races, and can be game ending for others. "Auto-lose" is a word I hear thrown around a lot by Zerg players, and I completely agree with them. It's just how the dynamics of the race work.

It's not impossible to win, but it sure is tough when an opponent makes 4-6 major mistakes, you make 1 misclick that costs you a few units, and your opponent steamrolls you because of it in my opinion. I guess that's what you mean though. It's totally my fault that I lose that game, I guess?

I really appreciate the moderator staff and how they handle harassment, and overbearing whine. I just think it would be better if moderators would not be allowed to voice their opinions on balance, or use their opinions on game balance to moderate. It is a complete conflict of interest.

Kaal

Djibouti2539 Posts

October 24 2010 20:46 GMT

#75

I'll be the first to admit that even though I'm a diamond player I'm terrible at SC2

tranceFuzion

United States12 Posts

October 24 2010 20:53 GMT

#76

+1 I fully agree with the OP's point on people posting w/out providing replays or discussing what they did wrong or even thinking about it, so they blame it on x race doing y strat is heavily imbalanced against z race.

Weavel

Finland9222 Posts

October 24 2010 20:54 GMT

#77

I was expecting a post like this after reading all these LR threads. Hopefully people get the OPs point.

Zarahtra

Iceland4053 Posts

October 24 2010 20:57 GMT

#78

On October 25 2010 05:45 TLOBrian wrote:
I personally believe that in a game where 2 players make 0 mistakes, it should be balanced. Currently how the races work, mistakes are less punished by other races, and can be game ending for others. "Auto-lose" is a word I hear thrown around a lot by Zerg players, and I completely agree with them. It's just how the dynamics of the race work.

It's not impossible to win, but it sure is tough when an opponent makes 4-6 major mistakes, you make 1 misclick that costs you a few units, and your opponent steamrolls you because of it in my opinion. I guess that's what you mean though. It's totally my fault that I lose that game, I guess?

From the OP I read it more: Are you pro level player? If not: You are likely to have made a lot more than 1 mistake and should try to cut those down, scout better, figure new timings/ways to hurt your opponent to give you a lead. RyanRushia worded my thoughts(which I had tried to describe earlier) perfectly:

On October 25 2010 05:04 RyanRushia wrote:
this the reason i 100% avoid using "imba" and "op"... if u blame your loss on somethihng you dont have control over, you wont improve. if you blame it on yourself or a mistake you made, that's something that is fixable

Antisocialmunky

United States5912 Posts

October 24 2010 21:00 GMT

#79


rep = [1]
rep = 1:rep
sum rep

+ Show Spoiler +

Haskell, because the rainbow pic was that epic

bokeevboke

Singapore1674 Posts

October 24 2010 21:07 GMT

#80

I disagree with OP, don't wanna be critical or stubborn. But as you see lately people talk less about balance. Blizzard did a good job and fixed some pretty big problems. If I remember correctly TL started to grow after BW was balanced and people simply talked about strats,tactics and so on.

Now that game is becoming balanced everybody's going to get back to what TL used to be before SC2.

Its not people's fault, obviously there are some people who will endlessly claim that there is imbalance. But admit it, how could you say that MorroW was better player when he won IdrA by using reapers. Do you expect people to be ignorant and talk about this strat as great/brilliant move by MorroW and he totally outplayed IdrA. The thing is, people will focus on things that draw more attention. In that case imbalance was more important than MorroW's skill.

Just wait and see. I think not much time left when the game will be finally balanced.