This thread needs to be stickied. I agree 110%. People need to look at what they did wrong, not what's wrong with the game. BW had many more ridiculous than SC2, for example, vulture's insane cost efficiency in TvP, lurkers under swarm being near invincible in ZvT, or arbs having enough health to divebomb into turrets and recall their army into your main In PvT. Yet people would still look at their own mistakes when these incredible strengths of their opponent's race was so apparent. I'd like to see this done more in SC2.

Paperscraps

United States639 Posts

October 24 2010 20:05 GMT

#42

If people actually read this and understand it, the posting in the SC2 forums will be halved if not more.

+1 Thanks for the awesome post OP.

GagnarTheUnruly

United States655 Posts

October 24 2010 20:06 GMT

#43

This thread is IMBA

Seriously there should be a link to the OP in the ten commandments or something. And I'll try not to be 'that guy.'

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

October 24 2010 20:09 GMT

#44

Hmm honestly, I don't think anyone below diamond (includes me lol) can really know anything about balance. At the same time, I can see value in Blizzard trying to balance the game for various skill levels, too, so that a zerg isn't 40 times harder for a noob (I'm not at all saying it is, this is just hypothetical). So I can see the use in their whining because if there is a lot more noob whining about one particular thing blizzard can at least look into it, but balancing the game at the top level is always paramount.

crms

United States11933 Posts

October 24 2010 20:09 GMT

#45

really awesome OP.

The thing I liked most about lurking BW is that is was a challenge for the players and everyone tried to understand all the little bits and pieces to formulate their playstyle and how to win. I liked that you could read the forums and get general well mannered advice (for the most part.) This isn't the case in SC2, infact it's the complete opposite.

The new community wants instant gratification. IF you lose its IMBA (this was rampant in the WoW Arena scene ugh..) Alsothere is no humility in SC2 maybe because it's too new and people get their diamond logo and feel superior, maybe gamers are spoiled little bitches these days, who knows. In BW as a new player logging into ICCUP you went in knowing that you're awful as fuck as you strive for D-, D, D+, there isn't that feeling anymore in sc2, that the player is in fact awful and needs to improve, I miss that.

ComusLoM

Norway3547 Posts

October 24 2010 20:09 GMT

#46

This is so epicly true. BW was always "I played bad so I lost" it's useful to just look back at when losing an Iccup game was a learning experience rather than a death blow. You get better by losing and identifying flaws.

Pyrrhuloxia

United States6700 Posts

October 24 2010 20:10 GMT

#47

On October 25 2010 05:05 Dragonblood21 wrote:
This thread needs to be stickied. I agree 110%. People need to look at what they did wrong, not what's wrong with the game. BW had many more ridiculous than SC2, for example, vulture's insane cost efficiency in TvP, lurkers under swarm being near invincible in ZvT, or arbs having enough health to divebomb into turrets and recall their army into your main In PvT. Yet people would still look at their own mistakes when these incredible strengths of their opponent's race was so apparent. I'd like to see this done more in SC2.

Don't forget Archons with Dark Swarm 0_0. <3 Stork

vesicular

United States1310 Posts

October 24 2010 20:11 GMT

#48

Unfortunately I think the only way to stem the tide of this sort of thing is for mods to start cracking down more. I come to TL because it's not the bnet forums, but they're starting to look more and more similar. I expect a little more.

Malinor

Germany4733 Posts

October 24 2010 20:12 GMT

#49

That's actually funny, a very similiar thought went through my head for the first time today. That analysis of SC2 games here is nearly never about mistakes player make, but about what's wrong with the involved units.

But I didn't plan on writing such a beautiful text. Well done, very nice read.

GagnarTheUnruly

United States655 Posts

October 24 2010 20:12 GMT

#50

I do think there's a rating system problem. Posting on the BW forums as 'I'm D+ and...' has a different connotation than '1300 Diamond here...' which I always read in a snooty British accent.

Wedge

Canada580 Posts

October 24 2010 20:13 GMT

#51

I'll echo the posts of everyone above and agree 100%. I mean, its not even debatable, its just fact that the SC2 boards, especially strats, are a verbal diarrhea filled cesspool compared to the older BW boards and the general quality and content of the posts.

Its just that the idiots who make it that way wont bother reading these posts, or will read them, and continue posting that trash. Just the way they are. Like you said, its just mostly people who were never around in that era of gaming, and dont remember or never experienced the community at that time, where you would look like a complete and utter retard for posting that vultures are OP, or that 6 pooling is too damn powerful. They still probably secretly felt that way, its just that even they knew that the amount of ridicule would make them feel stupid.

SpiDaH

France198 Posts

October 24 2010 20:14 GMT

#52

Damn, after re reading the post 5 times in a row while trying to argue against the OP, I realized I just couldn't find anything to argue about. Yeah, this is what we need.

Redmark

Canada2129 Posts

October 24 2010 20:14 GMT

#53

I really dislike this put 'funny' pictures randomly in your text thing. I get that Final Edits and stuff do this a lot, but those are appropriate. These just make it feel condescending and not really serious at all, which is a shame because the message is really important.

SiegeFlank

United States410 Posts

October 24 2010 20:14 GMT

#54

Thanks for this post, mahnini. Hopefully this will get featured on the front page because the SC2 strategy forums really have been in awful shape for a while now. People need to stop feeling this overbearing sense of entitlement (a plague that's affected a significant portion of all gaming communities in more recent years) and be more open to receiving criticism. Even if you lose 100 games against a certain build and you're clueless on what to do, it doesn't mean you can just shout "x is overpowered." Really take the time to analyze your own mistakes and master just the basics of this game.

wunsun

Canada622 Posts

October 24 2010 20:15 GMT

#55

On October 25 2010 05:11 vesicular wrote:
Unfortunately I think the only way to stem the tide of this sort of thing is for mods to start cracking down more. I come to TL because it's not the bnet forums, but they're starting to look more and more similar. I expect a little more.

I agree. I'm a new player her, and I'm very willing to learn. However, the strategy section seems to be more about whining and complaining.

A second thing is that the strategy section rules aren't very enforced. I think they should be so that, as elitist as it sounds, good players talk, and bad players (like me) listen or ask questions.

Samp

Canada783 Posts

October 24 2010 20:16 GMT

#56

nice read.

QueueQueue

Canada1000 Posts

October 24 2010 20:18 GMT

#57

My exact opinions summarized beautifully.

Snuggles

United States1865 Posts

October 24 2010 20:20 GMT

#58

Ever since beta I've noticed the difference between BW players and SC2 players in terms of attitude when it came to strategy. I cringe every time when a player finds the need to boast their rank and rating, and then blame their losses on imbalances or cheesy play.

They need to read this, and then they need to openly admit that they need to become more humble. I bet some of these players are reading this thread, and going like "Hmph, whatever, everyone's full of shit."

I hate those people =_=

mahnini

United States6862 Posts

October 24 2010 20:20 GMT

#59

i'm glad so many people agree.