EPTMLG DC Ultimate Feedback Thread - Page 4
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NukeTheBunnys
United States1004 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
I greatly enjoyed the SoTG pre-game (then again every podcast has been hilarious, JP is a fantastic host.) The actual interviews were nice, but I wouldn't be that aggrieved if they disappeared due to time constraints etc. 2) Maybe showing a picture of the brackets occasionally would be a nice small touch. 3) Vods as soon as you can. Understandably you're busy as hell, but there's something special about watching the games right when the tournament happens. At least for me, I don't have as much interest in watching the vods 3-4 days after the tournament. 4) Mapgirl; Meh. Felt a bit G4tvish. | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
1. Stick to a schedule and update the video stream and web page with any changes to the schedule. 2. Please, for the love of Starcraft, no more JP commentating unless you significantly improve vocal delivery and accuracy. 3. "Onroaching" is not a word. It is an abomination created by the unholy union of "approaching" and "oncoming." | ||
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Lighioana
Norway466 Posts
I liked: - The availability of replays (I'm not sure the players are that trilled though) - The quality of the casters (I wish I would've seen Incontrol casting a bit) - The fact that we could hear the crowd (really set the mood for the games) - The players and games - The double elimination format (although it's still confusing for me) - The LQ stream was good. The HQ stream was decent. No lag. What could've been better: - The recording streamed after day 1 should've been a full replay of day 1. Day 1 times were really bad for at least Europe - B.Net (Not in MLG control but maybe it was not b.net but rather the quality of internet at the location?) - The technical problems and delays (Set a plan how to handle certain failures) - The HQ stream had worst ingame quality then when streaming camera content. Overall, this MLG set a very high bar for any SC2 lan event. GG | ||
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
The big problem i saw was the use of different contrast/gamma settings, and a sharpening filter, and mostly the sharpening filter. Now i already made a very large post discussing the video quality and what sharpening does: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=161145¤tpage=2#28 But i would like to reiterate something about the use of sharpening. Added spoiler tag for those who don't care why, and only want the POINTS. + Show Spoiler + For each "level" of sharpening that is applied, the size of the image goes up substantially. Lets take this image for example: http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-05-19/starcraft-2-20070519000501107.jpg If i take it, and apply a sharpening filter, it goes from 349kb to 423kb. For those who don't know what sharpening is: "Sharpening is the detailed method of increasing the contrast between two objects, usually isolated to the point at where they meet. What this means is that to sharpen an image, you simply darken the lines and lighten the areas around them. If the lines are light, you brighten them even more and darken the areas around them." In star craft, the increased detail level (with terrain and units) means there are a ton of lines in any given picture. Adding even the smallest amount of sharpening can cause an increase of size, without much more perceived quality increase. So, sharpening hurts the size of AN image. How does that relate to streaming? Since you are streaming at a very limited resolution (640x360 for free stream i believe. HD, i suspect, is the same.), this means that sharpening is applied to a much smaller image, making the image even more pixelated then before. Lets this image for example. http://i53.tinypic.com/fnsgly.jpg It is 949kb original, and when compressed for the web, its 747kb. But, as for reference, Im going with the 949kb version. Im using photoshop CS5 and adding sharpening filters. After applying the standard sharpen technique, the image goes from .95mb to 1.1mb. Then, after another application, 1.1mb to 1.4mb. Then, from 1.4mb to 1.9mb, after a 3rd. Image image size stays the same, @ 1920x1200, and yet the image basically doubles in size. Now, lets scale down the entire image down to 640x400. The new image is: http://i54.tinypic.com/otixcp.jpg And has a size of 152kb. With 1 application, its now 200kb. With 2, its 258kb, and with 3, its 326kb. Now that we know what the effect of sharpening is, lets look at the quality of the two different images with 1 sharpening filter applied. Large(1.1mb): http://i55.tinypic.com/14987bb.jpg Small(192kb): http://i55.tinypic.com/i6d1s1.jpg Now, i took a 3rd sample. The large photo, sharpening applied, then scaled down to a smaller image: http://i56.tinypic.com/v45d2t.jpg And its size came to be 162kb. If you look at the original, and this new image, you can see somewhat of a sharpening effect on the image. Its very subtle, but with only an increase of 10kb over the original image size of the smaller image. Now, im making a point of this because it is important to note when the sharpening is being applied. MLG applies it before the image goes out, a sort of "post production". This means, that the highest level of sharpening is applied. Lets get down to the nitty gritty and reassert why its important to have the smallest image possible when broadcasting. If we take all of these images, and compress them, down to a very very small picture size, we can see in my original post a 400kbs image is = to about 50KB. (Non sharpened) http://i55.tinypic.com/21v4ux.jpg (Sharpened) http://i55.tinypic.com/ej8nqd.jpg Meaning that the image, becomes even more pixelated and the detail is lost, comparing to the original image. (note, that images are different then video, but the same theory can be applied) However, i must also note that BIG IMPORTANT PART: Most people do watch the videos in fullscreen. Which means that some sort of image scaling must occur. If we take a look at the examples of the wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling More then likely a liner/biliner interpolation method is used. This is the most common when it comes to image scaling. But, the quality goes down as well when its scaled (which is to be expected), and because its scaled, the sharpening (which is now pixelated) has become even worse. The scaling and the use of a lower bitrate and a sharpening filter, all mean that the final image is going to become unreasonably blocky, distorted, and horrendous. This is why a so many people complained on the first day. The effect is still there. Even though they have backed off on the amount of sharpening, its negative side effects basically build on each other, and a lower overall viewer experience is had, when compared to an image which isn't sharpened. So, remember kids. When your going to be doing some sort of broadcasting to the masses, DONT EVER USE SHARPENING EVER!, because while it may look a little bit better in theory, the fact that you have a limited amount of bandwidth, and the broadcast size means for a higher amount of scaling. These all lead to a very bad viewing experience. THEEND | ||
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Siffer
United States467 Posts
-I still dont really like the tournament structure and I don't think it 'respects' the players too well. You should really think about stretching the tournament out over three days. You could REALLY tell that players were getting tired towards the end. Select especially. -The 'extended series' isn't that great either. It destroys map selection and gives the former winner a huge advantage. Winners and Losers are separate brackets. They should not blend together in any way. -Do a better job of separating players so they don't hear crowd/casters. Obviously having korean style booths could be expensive, but logistically i think it could be done better. I wasn't at the actual event, but it seemed like the players area was right next to the casting desk and spectator area. -Make a rule to keep mid-game chatting to a minimum. While it does create great moments(its halo, don't worry), it is pretty unprofessional overall. Start of game should be fine for things like "gg gl hf" and even shoutouts to sponsors/teammates, but then it should be silence until the end in which the loser can say things like "gg", "wp", etc. Obviously things like "pp" can be allowed in the middle of the game. The players hsouldnt be having a friggin convo, though. -The casting and coverage was absolutely amazing. djWheat is by far the most professional caster in esports. No offense JP, but I think that djWheat and Day9 should be the 'A-team' casting duo. You did a great job with interviews and content, but I think that the actual gameplay should be casted by those two. | ||
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f0rk
England172 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
On October 18 2010 03:10 Zealotdriver wrote: Great job recovering from the technical difficulties throughout this event. 1. Stick to a schedule and update the video stream and web page with any changes to the schedule. 2. Please, for the love of Starcraft, no more JP commentating unless you significantly improve vocal delivery and accuracy. 3. "Onroaching" is not a word. It is an abomination created by the unholy union of "approaching" and "oncoming." I think the word he said was 'encroaching', which is a real word. I thought JP was good, but not as good as he was at Raleigh. Not sure why. I think the most important thing for me, as a Canadian who will probably never get a chance to show up in person and will always have to rely on the stream... make sure the stream quality is good and maybe increase the quality of the HD/HQ stream? | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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awha
Denmark1358 Posts
On October 18 2010 02:01 Energizer wrote: COMMENTARY I thought the Day9 and DJ commentary was excellent, with Sean bringing in the sc2 knowledge and hype while DJ brought up perfect questions to ask while being very motivated himself while you JP were on the floor dealing with interviews. I personally thought this was a much better improvement over the last commentary group. STREAM through both day 1 and 2, the stream seemed in both HD and Standard to be blocky. Not sure if this was due to in-game settings or some other factor, but definitely something to look into. Day 2 was however a lot better then the first day. OTHER Honestly, there were a few times I wouldn't much care to see a player's face/reaction in-game with their pic displayed at the lower right, as this does remove some intel for players (IE what upgrade does that unit have?) perhaps keep it for say, the first 5 minuets, then periodically put it back up to get their reactions in certain points in the game momentarily. Oh, and I loved how you uploaded the replays on-demand for fans, great feature to have available :D (that mothership rush deserved a second viewing), but would like the brackets to be more RSS friendly, as there were times they wouldn't be updated for quite some time. Oh, and perhaps something to look into, maybe noise canceling headphones for crowds? I mean for early stages in the game the crowd doesn't matter to much due to how many games are going on, but when theres only say, 3 left, the crowd could often give a big hint as to whats going to happen (IE cheers in 2 minuets would single proxy or cheese of some kind, or in huk's case a mothership rush) I can pretty much just echo this post as I agree wholeheartedly. My biggest concern was the streaming issues, but you got it fixed en the end. The battle.net issues should just highlight the need for a SC2 Lan kit. Oh, and I REALLY loved the Day9 and DJWHEAT combo, it was so mature, professional and just worked! thanks for a great event, my 10$ spent was well worth it (eventually  | ||
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out4blood
United States313 Posts
Good: 1. I thought casting talent was excellent. Day9 is really coming into his own as a professional casting talent. Both duos were awesome, but if I had to choose, I would prefer to see Day9 with djWheat. I thought Wheat did an excellent job asking questions and letting Day9 insert top-flight analysis. 2. Day 2 streaming quality was better. 3. I like that you let fans vote on matches to watch, and then selected those. Great addition. Bad: 1. You need to solve the technical issues with streaming. I know you guys know this, but it shouldn't something you have to figure out as things are getting ready. If anything, start the stream HOURS earlier and just show the crowd. But at least that gives you plenty of time to work out the kinks. (And people love those crowd shots, especially if there is a female in the building.) 2. WAY too much downtime. Instead of streaming NOTHING for several hours while you are waiting for the next round, in between matches, stream some replays of last round's key matchups. I know you need to give the casting team a break, but just let a replay run while someone (decently knowledgeable) moves the observer cam - heck, just get a volunteer fan, or something. Stream that instead of nothing. 3. Brackets need to be updated REAL-TIME. It was completely unprofessional to not have updated brackets, particularly as Day9 was trying to comment on them during the show. I mean how long does it take some MLG guy to update them? It should be updated immediately. I can understand a delay for the replays and the match info links, but the result? 4. Really need to fix the sharpness issue on the streams. Quality was horrible. 5. Have someone on the ball making sure the stream is showing the games instead of something else. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
Media: I'm trying to figure out why the few media members directly assigned for SC2 weren't alloewd into the players area for interviews or to record any sort of action whatsoever. During games there were 6-7 WoW players who pulled up chairs and even you yourself JP was setting up over Select's shoulder to watch them play. If Media members are going to be distracting then they probably aren't qualified, but it would have been nice for people with a media pass to do their job when open players who were out after 2 rounds or WoW players were allowed to hulk over idra's shoulder mid game. That or have some consistency and make it so WoW players who are warming up are there to warm up and not pull chairs up behind select/idra. | ||
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TheOsu
4 Posts
** The prerecorded interview to fill time was a great idea (I only saw the Idra one). Though, I don't know if it was the chairs you were sitting in, but you seemed very uptight and rigid during it. Just relax and chill, you asked great questions and did a very nice job. ** The decision to show the crowd and players while the casters were just chatting in between games was also a great decision. ** The casters seemed more comfortable this time, but without somebody like Husky or HD the duo seemed very, very, nerdy (Tasteless and Artosis are a great example of hosts that are intelligent on the SC2 scene and yet still seem like normal guys hanging out and having fun). Being a casual fan I already take enough shit from my friends for watching pro gaming and the last thing I want are the hosts perpetuating that basement-dwelling, nerdy stereotype. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
- get booths for the semis and finals - make sure that the commentators (which are awesome btw) get better makeup (Iam serious. they look unprofessional with shiny noses. and the casters you got are the opposite of unprofessional!) - dont force the players to play so many games on one day (like select for example). - give the players/teams more room/opportunity to promote their sponsors/organisations. all in all: if you spread the tournament a bit more out, go more interview heavy and let them breathe between the matches then your events will be even more exciting! | ||
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HyperLimen
United States278 Posts
The negatives: -Obviously, the delayed start on the first day -Not enough post game interviews with players to "fill time" -Ambiguous (at best) announcements in regards to exactly "when" the next match would be taking place. -The brackets were not shown enough The positives: -Excellent casting from both combos (Day9+JP/Day9+Wheat) -Hearing the crowds reactions to what was going on in the games added to the atmosphere of watching via stream -The interviews which did take place were awesome -The double elimination format, it simultaneously rewards someone for winning out in the winners bracket while giving players another chance to get back to the grand finals. Suggestions: -Post series interviews with players would be awesome if questions were asked that allowed players to articulate their thought processes during certain events in the series. For example, I would have loved to hear Idra describe what went through his head when he flew that overseer through Last Shadow's base on scrap station and saw nothing. -Give an ETA on when the next series will begin on the stream. Obviously this would be just an estimate, but it will give people a general idea of how long they have before the next series begins. Either an ETA or status updates letting us know if players are even at the stations yet, etc. -Fix the voiceover for lost temple, the narrator talks about "high yield minerals" when the camera pans and zooms in on the non-high yield naturals. -Show the brackets more and update them more frequently. -Keep up the good work! | ||
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Gomas
Poland311 Posts
Also (but less important!): Booths + heaphones. And I'm not asking for good quality stream, but just normal please  | ||
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Rakkat
United Kingdom69 Posts
I'd rather see the HD pass linked with my mlgpro.com account, so as long as i'm logged in while watching the stream will always be HD. Or at least a "high quality" button on the page that's only clickable once you've bought a pass. Technical issues aside I enjoyed the stream and will definitely be investing in the HD pass for future events as well. | ||
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Kazang
578 Posts
But one thing that is pretty huge and hasn't been mentioned much is that the tournament was insanely rushed. Too few matches on the first day and far too many on the second. SeleCT is an absolute beast to be able to keep playing so well after so much time, that is a really rare thing. You could see the signs of fatigue in the players who had played far fewer games and it was not a good thing. If it wasn't for SeleCT being such a machine the quality of the games would have been vastly lower than they were. It was sad to see him have to battle through so many players then falter at the last step against Idra. If the games had been spaced out more and given the players time to prepare more the quality of the play would have been much better and the final in particular would have been a much closer game. It really is unfair on the players to have them play so many games in succession. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
sound proof headphones seems necessity. and imo, $60 seems a little expensive, ontop of travel, food, stay and misc. | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
On October 18 2010 03:20 GGQ wrote: I think the word he said was 'encroaching', which is a real word. I thought JP was good, but not as good as he was at Raleigh. Not sure why. I think the most important thing for me, as a Canadian who will probably never get a chance to show up in person and will always have to rely on the stream... make sure the stream quality is good and maybe increase the quality of the HD/HQ stream? Perhaps he was trying to say encroaching and simply pronounced the 'en' incorrectly and omitted the hard c. However, trying to say a word and actually saying it are not the same. As far as I know he is an adult native English speaker, so it is reasonable to expect him to use real words and pronounce every word correctly. | ||
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