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On September 29 2010 23:32 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 21:47 Amadi wrote:On September 29 2010 21:36 Hellbike wrote:
IdrA is such a bully, Morrow already said IdrA is better player than him, but he just keep pushing. As a zerg player, I can understand. He probably got paired with someone slightly below himself in skill level and lost after seeing the opponent do a dozen mistakes, quality of which would mean autoloss if the opponent was playing Zerg. On September 29 2010 20:28 sadyque wrote:On September 29 2010 20:18 Arakash wrote:On September 29 2010 20:00 guitarizt wrote:
Maybe he can teach us to nydus. and neural parasite :D would be too funny if he really would come up with a neural parasite+Nydus push :D You know what would be more funny? Cool winning GSL and Morrow starting to wtfpwn with zerg. Mb then all zerg players will shut the fuck up about balance. They still won't, as Zerg will still be exceedingly unbalanced at lower levels of play where players do not have 850 APS. APS standing for actions per second. Where that "lower levels of play" encompasses some 99.99% of the total population of sc2. Uhm what? Idra played horrible in the iem final. In general he is the superior player, but don't act like he never make mistakes himself.
Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy.
Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
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Morrow, so your motivation is "testing yourself" and "pushing yourself further" for playing Zerg. Does that mean that you don't find playing Toss hard, or does it just not fit your style(?). I don't particularly follow your career since I labelled you as terran, but have you considered toss, or just went straight to zerg?
Lastly, please stay terran. I need a reason to keep hating you.
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On September 30 2010 00:08 Latham wrote:
Morrow, so your motivation is "testing yourself" and "pushing yourself further" for playing Zerg. Does that mean that you don't find playing Toss hard, or does it just not fit your style(?). I don't particularly follow your career since I labelled you as terran, but have you considered toss, or just went straight to zerg?
Lastly, please stay terran. I need a reason to keep hating you.
He already stated he finds both Toss and Terran easy to play and he was taking games off top Terrans as Toss without even knowing the hotkeys.
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Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy.
Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
machine 6 pooled vs huk
cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday
do you hate them?
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On September 30 2010 00:04 DarkShell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 23:32 nihlon wrote:On September 29 2010 21:47 Amadi wrote:On September 29 2010 21:36 Hellbike wrote:
IdrA is such a bully, Morrow already said IdrA is better player than him, but he just keep pushing. As a zerg player, I can understand. He probably got paired with someone slightly below himself in skill level and lost after seeing the opponent do a dozen mistakes, quality of which would mean autoloss if the opponent was playing Zerg. On September 29 2010 20:28 sadyque wrote:On September 29 2010 20:18 Arakash wrote:On September 29 2010 20:00 guitarizt wrote:
Maybe he can teach us to nydus. and neural parasite :D would be too funny if he really would come up with a neural parasite+Nydus push :D You know what would be more funny? Cool winning GSL and Morrow starting to wtfpwn with zerg. Mb then all zerg players will shut the fuck up about balance. They still won't, as Zerg will still be exceedingly unbalanced at lower levels of play where players do not have 850 APS. APS standing for actions per second. Where that "lower levels of play" encompasses some 99.99% of the total population of sc2. Uhm what? Idra played horrible in the iem final. In general he is the superior player, but don't act like he never make mistakes himself. Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy. Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win. At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
It's not like there were money on the line or anything. Why wouldn't you use your best chance of winning, even if it's an unfair advantage? it's "almost" a sport, of course you do whatever you can to win.
I played Z in the beta, but I had such a bad laptop at that point and I found Z to be extremely difficult to play with 1-5 FPS, 0.1 FPS during fights when it counted. So I switched to T and still managed to get into Diamond league in every bracket, enough said? T is easy, no question about it, I didn't even manage to Stim during some fights yet I came out on top.
Keep practicing MorroW, I'd love to see you stomp som T butts in a few weeks.
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I thought you were a total douche after IEM and reading some forum posts, but you seem like a pretty cool and intelligent guy MorroW, at least if you stick to zerg for a bit. A lot of unskilled Terrans take the imbalances for granted and get to the top now, but they're going to fall after some patching.
Hopefully you won't.
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On September 30 2010 00:11 aogmxctm wrote:Show nested quote +
Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy.
Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them?
I'd say the difference is a failed 6 pool puts you behind a ton while a failed reaper rush still leaves you in a relatively good position.
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On September 30 2010 00:11 aogmxctm wrote:Show nested quote +
Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy.
Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them?
Honestly, I haven't followed the GSL much, so didn't know about Cool. When I saw Machine 6 pool HuK, though, yeah I lost a lot of respect for him. I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win.
Even then, though, Machine only 6 pooled HuK one game. MorroW went reapers every game (excluding the last). Huge difference.
Like I said, he may gain some respect from me if he plays zerg and he plays well. If I see a 6 pool, even though he's zerg, it's still the same.
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Respect.for.Morrow++. Not for playing Zerg, but for the attitude and responses to Idra.
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On September 30 2010 00:04 DarkShell wrote:.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
It's generally agreed upon Idra messed up the blistering sands game, he was macroing uncharacteristically bad, and MorroW was doing surprisingly well as the game progressed, I don't really see how you can say reaper abuse was the biggest factor in the IEM in general, as some very good terrans, who are much more one-base abusers like DeMuslim still lost to Idra and Dimaga.
Hating someone for playing their race well is just nonsense. MorroW played Terran to it's logical conclusion with the way the game was balanced at that point. The whole idea that we as players or spectators are entitled to see people play a certain way just reeks of arrogance. It's like when people play Poker and say "I'd be a great player, if only my raises were respected".
If you're watching a commonly used strategy and remarking to yourself about how much you hate watching it, there's a point where you're actually beginning to hate the game, rather than the playstyle, and given the current evolution of strategy in SC2 so far, I'm thinking we're going to see a Frozen Throne style rebalance with HoTS.
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On September 30 2010 00:22 kataa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 00:04 DarkShell wrote:.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
It's generally agreed upon Idra messed up the blistering sands game, he was macroing uncharacteristically bad, and MorroW was doing surprisingly well as the game progressed, I don't really see how you can say reaper abuse was the biggest factor in the IEM in general, as some very good terrans, who are much more one-base abusers like DeMuslim still lost to Idra and Dimaga. Hating someone for playing their race well is just nonsense. MorroW played Terran to it's logical conclusion with the way the game was balanced at that point. The whole idea that we as players or spectators are entitled to see people play a certain way just reeks of arrogance. It's like when people play Poker and say "I'd be a great player, if only my raises were respected". If you're watching a commonly used strategy and remarking to yourself about how much you hate watching it, there's a point where you're actually beginning to hate the game, rather than the playstyle, and given the current evolution of strategy in SC2 so far, I'm thinking we're going to see a Frozen Throne style rebalance with HoTS.
Here's where you're wrong. I respect players who play well, even if they get utterly destroyed. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's how you play. If you cheese your way to victory, do you really deserve that win? If you play a 40 minute macro game against a better player and still lose, you have complete respect from me that you lasted that long and made a great game of it.
I can somewhat understand cheesing one game out of a series to get ahead when you're down. Ok, you needed that game to stay alive. But going 5 rax reapers every single match in a series vs zerg is not worth the effort to look at the screen to watch.
I'm just one person and it's just my opinion, but it is what it is.
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Let me get this straight, Idra delivers some facts in this thread and people bashes him because he just has an ego blah blah blah etc. Yet Morrow seems to just straight up brags and people give him respect for it? That is such nonsense.
Surprise surprise, Europeans love Morrow because of rose colored lenses.
On September 29 2010 15:23 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 14:45 hdkhang wrote:On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point. Agreed. People on these forums need to turn the hate dials down a notch. MorroW is one of the good guys. He is entitled to his opinions as well as his confidence in his abilities. Even if you don't agree with what he says, there is no need for trash. No, he really isn't. He's one of the "good guys" who taunt zerg with saying "oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament". But of course, he can't.
ENOUGH SAID
But yeah there's no nationalism bias at all in this thread.
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I can't dl the reppack  Could someone re-upload it?
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When did morrow say ''oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament''? That's right. He didn't. Stop putting words into peoples mouth...
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On September 30 2010 00:20 DarkShell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 00:11 aogmxctm wrote:
Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy.
Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win.
At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe.
machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them? Honestly, I haven't followed the GSL much, so didn't know about Cool. When I saw Machine 6 pool HuK, though, yeah I lost a lot of respect for him. I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win. Even then, though, Machine only 6 pooled HuK one game. MorroW went reapers every game (excluding the last). Huge difference. Like I said, he may gain some respect from me if he plays zerg and he plays well. If I see a 6 pool, even though he's zerg, it's still the same.
well 6pool is an allin cheese build. 5rax reaper was fully straight up and solid build in that patch, it was really imbalanced in every way.
u need to learn to split difference with cheese and imbalanced build that cant be stopped without patching the game.
On September 30 2010 00:39 Weavel wrote:
When did morrow say ''oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament''? That's right. He didn't. Stop putting words into peoples mouth...
tnx for that. its true i never did say that, altought i have said i think more zergs would be more succesful if they spent less time whining and being negative saying to themselves "this is impossible" and rather get more of an attitude like ret or madfrog who can see flaws in their play and work on it despite it being imbalanced. altough i see a huge amount of toss users and terran users who just whine have this bad attitude towards the game aswell
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On September 30 2010 00:33 KissBlade wrote:Let me get this straight, Idra actually delivers some facts in this thread and people bashes him because he just has an ego blah blah blah etc. Yet Morrow seems to just straight up brags and people give him respect for it? That is such nonsense. Surprise surprise, Europeans love Morrow because of rose colored lenses. Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 15:23 mierin wrote:On September 29 2010 14:45 hdkhang wrote:On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote:
Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point. Agreed. People on these forums need to turn the hate dials down a notch. MorroW is one of the good guys. He is entitled to his opinions as well as his confidence in his abilities. Even if you don't agree with what he says, there is no need for trash. No, he really isn't. He's one of the "good guys" who taunt zerg with saying "oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament". But of course, he can't. ENOUGH SAID
Would you mind actually providing some examples of what you are talking about?
Also, reading the thread helps, MorroW has been humble to the extreme in his responses here and unlike you who just says something without providing an actual example of what your talking about, I'm going to give you a quote from one of MorroW's responses:
if u remove korea from sc1 it was still according to me and this is my opinion was just as competitive as the other top games were. its understandable that u see everything as being special class after living in korea playing with those sc1 progamers but in reality ur just skyrocket above and we sc1 foreigners were on the normal class
Honestly, what more do you want from the guy?
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On September 30 2010 00:31 DarkShell wrote:
I can somewhat understand cheesing one game out of a series to get ahead when you're down. Ok, you needed that game to stay alive. But going 5 rax reapers every single match in a series vs zerg is not worth the effort to look at the screen to watch.
I'm just one person and it's just my opinion, but it is what it is.
I completely agree, 5 rax Reaper every game is insane. The whole point of my post, was that it's a logical conclusion of the design of the game, not the character of it's players. 5 rax reaper didn't become popular because all Terrans are horrible people who just want to win whatever the cost, and zergs are all saints who only care only about entertaining spectators.
Competitive players play to win, and they'll use the best tools to achieve that. If you hate seeing 5 Rax reaper every game, blame Blizzard for faulity game design not MorroW or LzGamer.
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It's admirable how mature MorroW behaves in this thread compared to Idra, brush that sand out of your vagina Idra, it's no good.
Good luck MorroW, i hope to see you kick ass in the upcoming events.
User was banned for this post.
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On September 30 2010 00:20 DarkShell wrote:
I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win.
Three things.
1) Nobody said you 6 pool only when you have to do so to win. Cheese can also be a strong mindgame, or a way to punish predictable greedy openings. It can be a great way to open series, as in the July vs. Best OSL final. Maybe there are lots of ways you can win. But why should you limit your selection? You choose from every option you have, even if DarkShell doesn't enjoy watching some of them as much.
2) To reiterate: This is about winning, not about abiding by some unwritten rules of honorable builds. Whining about cheese is like playing nr20 games, or whining about throws in a fighting game. Get over it. If I can beat you by doing nothing but throws, either the game is bad, or you need to learn how to respond. You might not enjoy watching matches that are pure throws, or pure turtling, or whatever. But that only has anything to do with respect if the goal is fun matches, and it's not. It's winning.
3) If the game is balanced, the better player should be able to beat predictable cheese most of the time. Sometimes it's just bad luck, and there's nothing you can do about that except realize that it happens to everybody (with every build) and move on. But if you systematically can't respond, then either the game is bad, or you need a new strategy.
The better a build gets, the more lame it gets, because the whole point of a good build is to give you an advantage at a minimal cost. The better you get at that trade--the better the payoff and the lower the cost--the more lame it's gonna look. If you don't like it, go play something noncompetitive, where people aren't trying to give themselves every advantage they can. Or wait two years until sc2 is balanced, then come back and see that most of the super lame stuff has gotten riskier. Then its use will be less automatic and more strategic.
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In a long series, I actually like a cheese game. It keeps things fresh and interesting, and can really throw the opponent off in other games.
Agree with above, mind games ftw :D
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EPT
