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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/8lvr-y-jpg.html Apparently Zerg's number 1 enemy, he of the Reaper abuse and cocky trash talk, Mr. MorroW himself, has started playing Zerg. Who knows if it will last, but if it does, let me be the first to give the man some props--he said he could play Zerg if he felt like it, and now he's trying to back up his words. And any time we get one less elite Terran, and one more elite Zerg, that can only be a good thing  | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss I'm not sure how good he is at zerg yet. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Fianchetto
United States157 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:18 mierin wrote: I'll seriously eat my shoes if MorroW becomes a good Zerg. I doubt you'll ever lose those shoes. Gl to morrow though. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Playing other races is fun.Games are for fun. Don't look to much into it P.S. Where does it say he's playing zerg? Show another screen shot | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
Doesn't mean anything. | ||
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UisTehSux
United States693 Posts
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KrissirK
United States63 Posts
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GenoZStriker
United States2914 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:21 ChickenLips wrote: Demuslim has been dabbling around with Protoss a lot too. Doesn't mean anything. It's more like what they are trying to prove. | ||
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Toxiferous
United States388 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
I really liked MorroW for his macro-style Terran at the beginning of the beta, but then I started hating him for being the Nr1 Terran-abuser. If he really starts playing Zerg though, I'd fkn LOVE him! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
 .But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo. | ||
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Kang19
Canada102 Posts
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hijt
106 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
Also i am waiting for the imba zerg players to switch terran and faceroll all tournaments to show us how its OP User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
kudos for him on trying. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a joke that since he lost games he must be playing Z now. | ||
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Kang19
Canada102 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:28 Alexstrasas wrote: I am pretty sure if he starts playing Zerg is just to make the QQers stfu, there was some whine thread some time ago were he posted something of that nature, then IdrA posted something there too, so it might be because of this. Also i am waiting for the imba zerg players to switch terran and faceroll all tournaments to show us how its OP You're right because so far Terran hasn't been getting anything done in tournaments. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:24 hijt wrote: lets see if he can be successful with it (i doubt). No1 really can as Z atm. ^^' If he sticks with Z though, he'd definitely have the necessary mechanics and will to improve for it. But I heavily doubt that he'll srsly switch to Zerg... | ||
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Skamtet
Canada634 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:28 Alexstrasas wrote: Why are you posting this?I am pretty sure if he starts playing Zerg is just to make the QQers stfu, there was some whine thread some time ago were he posted something of that nature, then IdrA posted something there too, so it might be because of this. Also i am waiting for the imba zerg players to switch terran and faceroll all tournaments to show us how its OP | ||
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biskit
Australia355 Posts
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Anfere
Canada231 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:28 Alexstrasas wrote: I am pretty sure if he starts playing Zerg is just to make the QQers stfu, there was some whine thread some time ago were he posted something of that nature, then IdrA posted something there too, so it might be because of this. Also i am waiting for the imba zerg players to switch terran and faceroll all tournaments to show us how its OP while my post will be viewed as anecdotal and irrelevant (for the most part it is) I have done this on a smaller scale. With my P practice partner (1400+) I lose most series as Z. One day for fun I went T, I have no experience playing T outside of a few random games in beta, and won a series 2-1 going pretty much pure mmm. | ||
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drag_
England425 Posts
Edit: It was really dumb. Might want to link that to OP though. | ||
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BumsenDK
Denmark137 Posts
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:26 adeezy wrote: LOL to quote idra. If morrow wins a series with zerg I will never say the word imbalance again. Not that I dont think Morrow would be able to do it with time and lots and lots more pactice, but I would if I could, go with Idra on this one : ) | ||
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BaltA
Norway849 Posts
I did that in BW, and it helped me improve fast. | ||
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BumsenDK
Denmark137 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:31 drag_ wrote: Sorry if this is really dumb but where's your proof that this is even Morrow? I can say it is morrow went on a checked meself | ||
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:31 drag_ wrote: Sorry if this is really dumb but where's your proof that this is even Morrow? http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/213221/1/mouzMorroW/matches#filter=solo http://sc2ranks.com/eu/213221/mouzMorroW | ||
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JpsK9.png) | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
For example, I played vs Strelok recently in a ZvZ. He outmicroed me with Zerglings despite me having great numbers, and I only won because he left like 15-20 Zerglings at hte bottom of my ramp which 3 banelings annihilated. It was all downhill from there. As Strelok learns shit like that, he'll quickly surpass me, if he hasn't already, and I'm sure the same is for Morrow. Although I'm not saying they'll be able to win tournies with Zerg... they just won't have THAT match history for long. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:26 adeezy wrote: LOL to quote idra. If morrow wins a series with zerg I will never say the word imbalance again. I approve this message. Lol. | ||
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xxjondxx
United States89 Posts
 . I remember when beta was down i spent a ton of time watching him stream bw. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
I don't think it's going to turn out how he hoped though. I expect he will revise his opinion on Zerg eventually. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
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awha
Denmark1358 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:28 Alexstrasas wrote: I am pretty sure if he starts playing Zerg is just to make the QQers stfu, there was some whine thread some time ago were he posted something of that nature, then IdrA posted something there too, so it might be because of this. Also i am waiting for the imba zerg players to switch terran and faceroll all tournaments to show us how its OP I would love to read that thread! Do you have a source on that by any chance? | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:42 Nazza wrote: a losing streak automatically means Zerg? since when? lol He lost something like 1000 points. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:24 kickinhead wrote: lol... I really liked MorroW for his macro-style Terran at the beginning of the beta, but then I started hating him for being the Nr1 Terran-abuser. If he really starts playing Zerg though, I'd fkn LOVE him! and if he starts to banebust/ling rush u will hate him again lol indeed... | ||
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Abdiel
52 Posts
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Kinky
United States4126 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:26 adeezy wrote: LOL to quote idra. If morrow wins a series with zerg I will never say the word imbalance again. We can all hope for that day :D | ||
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JQL
United States214 Posts
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Oddysay
Canada597 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:49 Abdiel wrote: This is awesome. If Morrow decides to start QQing to blizzard about zerg being UP, things might finally start getting done XD. what happen if he start own people using zerg ? but he need pratice first , maybe he can be good with zerg , who know | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:50 Oddysay wrote: what happen if he start own people using zerg ? He won't lol so I wouldn't go thinking of it . | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... | ||
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graphene
Finland211 Posts
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rocketboy77
171 Posts
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graphene
Finland211 Posts
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Looonski
United States15 Posts
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awha
Denmark1358 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD Respect for comming clear and being honest, thumbs up! | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Mrwl
Sweden339 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch Definitely go for it, would love to see our beloved MorroW duking it out as Zerg, and still be as dominant! Stefan är bäst, ingen protest!  | ||
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Sneakyyyy
Portugal4 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:26 adeezy wrote: LOL to quote idra. If morrow wins a series with zerg I will never say the word imbalance again. source? would like to read it | ||
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Cashout
115 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... Such a baller player. he is #1 in the top 100 list and he goes and plays the other races under his main account. Regardless of what he chooses, he will be a better player for knowing his opponents races so well. | ||
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PD
Norway66 Posts
Maybe morrow is doing the same, althouh I find it unlikely he's had any zerg problems it's probably still some valauble experience. Sure I hope he's changing to zerg since I find zerg games interesting to watch, but untill he shows as a tournament as zerg it's all speculation. | ||
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Ordained
United States779 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:26 adeezy wrote: LOL to quote idra. If morrow wins a series with zerg I will never say the word imbalance again. Looks like morrow cant even win a ladder match let alone a major tournament. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:57 JinDesu wrote: Did you literally have a 4 minute game there? Ouch. i sent my overlord to scout and realized it was not safe timing because a marine would kill it, so i left. many dont know this but my way of practicing is that i tend to leave on minor mistakes, in sc1 i used to type out of a probe harass killed a scv | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch DO IT, we need more good Zerg players | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:05 MorroW wrote: i sent my overlord to scout and realized it was not safe timing because a marine would kill it, so i left. many dont know this but my way of practicing is that i tend to leave on minor mistakes, in sc1 i used to type out of a probe harass killed a scv Now we know your weakness!!! | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13040 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:05 MorroW wrote: i sent my overlord to scout and realized it was not safe timing because a marine would kill it, so i left. many dont know this but my way of practicing is that i tend to leave on minor mistakes, in sc1 i used to type out of a probe harass killed a scv Haha i remember those times and I was like "wtf" when we played lol. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
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GrazerRinge
999 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:35 motbob wrote: O.O i dont know what morrow has in his mind, but it doesn't look good...seriously, he just could practise custom instead of laddering -.-; | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
GL | ||
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch As for what he said there, he's probably right. The mechanics of the game are much easier then they were in BW. In a way I suppose that is good though because it leaves more room to reward strategy rather than mechanics, which personally I find to make games much more fun and entertaining. Just because the mechanics are easier doesn't make it easier to win, it just takes away a little bit of the emphasis on crazy apm and constant practice, but emphasizes the thinking part of the game. For those of you who think this is a bad thing, look at TLO. I think he is the perfect example of a player who takes advantage of this. His mechanics are not bad by any means, but he doesn't win games relying solely on good mechanics. He wins games by out thinking his opponents. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:36 FabledIntegral wrote: Well the reason for all his losses would be attributed to him playing people on the VERY top of the ladder, correct? So he needs at least get used to Zerg, you wouldn't expect him to be at the top ASAP. So it's going to lower him down a bit, eventually he'll rise back up if he's good enough. He could always be losing from little things that he simply doesn't have experience doing. For example, I played vs Strelok recently in a ZvZ. He outmicroed me with Zerglings despite me having great numbers, and I only won because he left like 15-20 Zerglings at hte bottom of my ramp which 3 banelings annihilated. It was all downhill from there. As Strelok learns shit like that, he'll quickly surpass me, if he hasn't already, and I'm sure the same is for Morrow. Although I'm not saying they'll be able to win tournies with Zerg... they just won't have THAT match history for long. Why can't there be more posters on TL like you. Balance/Imbalance discussion is becoming boring and not adding anything new. We all have a subjective view and try to push it onto to others in an objective way, but this is impossible. Morrow is a top tier player and always will be, because he puts the time and effort into the game to do so. He is experimenting with other races and not starting new threads every five seconds spouting imbalance. Imagine playing a game to have fun, be challenged mentally, and sharpen yourself as a person. Weird concept, am I right? | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:07 GrazerRinge wrote: O.O i dont know what morrow has in his mind, but it doesn't look good...seriously, he just could practise custom instead of laddering -.-; Why? Ladder rank means nothing unless there was a very particular reason to maintain a high ladder ranking to qualify for a specific tournament or something along those lines. Laddering is great in this case as the ladder is pretty damn good at matching you vs opponents of equal skill after enough time. Once Morrow's Z gets better and his "new" skill stabilizes he'll be getting equal games as he climbs back up or he could go back to his main and recoup those losses without a terrible amount of effort, especially as his rating will have fallen so far in comparison to what his Terran was And obviously he's losing most of his Zerg games what would anyone expect lol? He picks up Z and beats people who have been on 1 race as their main for however many months? | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
I really think he can do well if he sticks with Zerg. I do believe zerg is underpowered, but I think he has the talent to get quite far, even with it. It'll also be interesting to see the perspective of a high level player who makes this transition. Good luck Morrow, and I hope you stick with z for awhile. | ||
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MassAirUnits
United States66 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:07 GrazerRinge wrote: O.O i dont know what morrow has in his mind, but it doesn't look good...seriously, he just could practise custom instead of laddering -.-; What's wrong with playing on the ladder? I think it'll be a more honest evaluation of his Z basics. When his Z starts bringing him back up, then playing customs to test stranger strategies would make sense. | ||
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Hunch
Canada336 Posts
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:07 GrazerRinge wrote: O.O i dont know what morrow has in his mind, but it doesn't look good...seriously, he just could practise custom instead of laddering -.-; Ack you are right, His ladder score is bad now, I guess that means he won't have a chance in any of the upcoming tourneys with a score like that | ||
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atenthirtyone
United States88 Posts
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:12 atenthirtyone wrote: Did he lose a bet to Dimaga or something? "Hey man, Bo5 for practice. Let's make it interesting If you win, I (insert something really tempting). If you lose, you ladder 50 Zerg games." o.O I wonder if it has to do with the claim IdrA made about MorroW never winning a tourney as a Zerg o-0 | ||
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Lomak
United States311 Posts
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graphene
Finland211 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:19 darmousseh wrote: lol loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss I'm not sure how good he is at zerg yet. I started cracking up when I saw that XD | ||
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fevax
Turkey143 Posts
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jdr_
United States78 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:50 JQL wrote: I think top players will be top players, race dont matter. In fact, even the game they play dont matter because 99% of the top sc2 players were once great WC3 or SCBW players. This is so horribly, horribly wrong. Morrow could play BW 12 hours a day and he wouldn't even be good enough to take games off a pro b-team. IdrA couldn't even get close to qualifying for an OSL or MSL despite living in a korean progaming house and playing all those hours. Being a pro BW player is A LOT more difficult than being a pro SC2 player. And warcraft 3 is just a completely different skillset, I played W3 competitively for a couple of years, but when i made the switch to BW I was awful just like everyone else. Took me 2k games to get to C on iccup. | ||
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Gak2
Canada418 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:15 Lomak wrote: Not trying to prove a point, but lets ponder on what this thread would be about if Morrow went on a winning streak once switching to zerg instead of a losing streak. probably about pigs flying because that would have to happen first | ||
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Escape
Canada306 Posts
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Kang19
Canada102 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:19 Furios wrote: probably about pigs flying because that would have to happen first +1 User was warned for this post | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
Bet he wishes he got a good beating with the belt instead | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:36 FabledIntegral wrote: Well the reason for all his losses would be attributed to him playing people on the VERY top of the ladder, correct? So he needs at least get used to Zerg, you wouldn't expect him to be at the top ASAP. So it's going to lower him down a bit, eventually he'll rise back up if he's good enough. He could always be losing from little things that he simply doesn't have experience doing. For example, I played vs Strelok recently in a ZvZ. He outmicroed me with Zerglings despite me having great numbers, and I only won because he left like 15-20 Zerglings at hte bottom of my ramp which 3 banelings annihilated. It was all downhill from there. As Strelok learns shit like that, he'll quickly surpass me, if he hasn't already, and I'm sure the same is for Morrow. Although I'm not saying they'll be able to win tournies with Zerg... they just won't have THAT match history for long. Streloks playing zerg too now? I thought he played terran(or toss, think terran) | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1903 Posts
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Lomak
United States311 Posts
probably about pigs flying because that would have to happen first My point being, is that people would clamor around it saying "Look zerg must be balanced because he switched and still won" If he loses then we obviously get this kind of thread. All in the hopes of proving or disproving some racial imbalances. When (whether he wins or loses) it really doesn't prove anything either way. My .02c | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:25 Pandain wrote: Streloks playing zerg too now? I thought he played terran(or toss, think terran) He was most likely just trying it out. And yes he mains Terran. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
Not only is it hard to change race randomly, he's changing race at a very high level of play...making it so much worse than just a random platinum person changing race... | ||
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Huko
United States324 Posts
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MrGrieves-
Canada23 Posts
I like Schrottplatz for Scrap Station though. | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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FALAPARK
United States224 Posts
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Thurokiir
United States779 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... It takes balls to do what you're doing man, Best of luck to you and I hope you learn the race at a high level! =D. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Abdiel
52 Posts
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piny
United States19 Posts
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
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Kang19
Canada102 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
It won't be funny for him though | ||
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prototype.
Canada4206 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:42 Kang19 wrote: How come people don't call me awesome when I go on a 15 game losing streak. lol... a successful terran switches to zerg and goes on a huge losing streak, suddenly a hero. | ||
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:41 piny wrote: do ppl realize he didnt get a seperate accnt to start playing his zerg, so all his opponents r ppl who he'd normally vs as a top terran, no shet he has massive losses, it doesnt mean shet You know what happened when Sheth (or was it Slush) switched to Terran on ladder? He still won games... and kept his winrate. Although that was on US server. | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:35 motbob wrote: Wonder how far that will go down...1200 imo | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:42 Kang19 wrote: How come people don't call me awesome when I go on a 15 game losing streak. You're awesome! See? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
edit; today. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. | ||
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prototype.
Canada4206 Posts
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Simi
Canada21 Posts
So he should have the same win % with zerg. | ||
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epicopter
Canada177 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 Simi wrote: Every pro player should be able to play all race at high level. There win/loss ratio should* be the same for each race. When youre good, youre good with every race. So he should have the same win % with zerg. And what exactly is it that makes you feel this way? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:52 gozima wrote: I'm obviously no where near as good as the top SC2 pros, but I tend to agree with MorroW here. I've been watching a ton of pros in various tournaments and I think we're very close to reaching the skill ceiling threshold for SC2. The programming for SC2 compared to BW is so vastly superior, I doubt we'll be seeing very many revolutionary tricks to exploit in SC2 like in BW, and if there are tricks [phasing, sockfolding], Blizz will just end up patching them out asap. I don't think the game will have lasting appeal like BW after all the expansion packs are released. I hope it does, but I doubt it. GOGOGO MorroW Zerg. Our race needs more representation. We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. | ||
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john0507
164 Posts
But it's cool , He'd be a good zerg no doubt about , he's got the solid mechanics needed to be a good zerg | ||
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jambam
United States324 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 epicopter wrote: Why don't you go back to playing BW if SC2 is too easy for you that you can't even win as zerg? Dude... really? Morrow Zerg fighting! Welcome to the swarm | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
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TheCabDriver
Canada159 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:56 Mohdoo wrote: And what exactly is it that makes you feel this way? His misguided thought processes hehehe. Okay I'm an asshole but I'm going to agree with him in a way. I think it would be cool if all top players were Random | ||
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Lomak
United States311 Posts
I think i remember a game where cool played terran and stomped on Sen while he was streaming. Jus sayin. | ||
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kaisr
Canada715 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 Simi wrote: Every pro player should be able to play all race at high level. There win/loss ratio should* be the same for each race. When youre good, youre good with every race. So he should have the same win % with zerg. This is completely false. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:19 darmousseh wrote: lol loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss I'm not sure how good he is at zerg yet. If you believe the rabblerousing masses on TL, he's probably pretty good at Zerg. :p | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
"Man all these zerg just like to bitch bitch bitch. I bet I can pick up zerg and own face with it!" 15 losses later. "Fuck..." But seriously, all pros play all the races. You can see this clearly on streams and from stories of people like Savior, who was VERY good at terran. He is probably a good zerg but at his rank he only plays very good players so it makes it hard to play a race you aren't as good at against that level of players. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
If I go out and offrace on ladder for a week you'd better believe I'll lose all my games. Morrow cares so little about his rating that he leaves within ten minutes a lot of those games. So why don't we let him do whatever he wants and stop stalking him? He's only about a million times better than any of us so why would he care what scrubs like us think. If Morrow does read this, props for trying something new. It would be crazy to see you winning tournaments as Zerg :D | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:17 graphene wrote: why wouldnt pro macro terrans be good Zs i dont understand??? Because good macro as zerg requires hitting the Spawn larva timer when it's up almost every single time consistently. If you mess up with using mules by 10-15 seconds it doesn't hurt you as much as missing spawn larva by 10-15 seconds at the highest levels. Not only that but as with protoss and terran, and not with zerg, there isn't a decision being made between making a worker or making a unit, you just nonstop make workers usually, expand when you have so much saturation on that 1 base that you can't keep your minerals down with your production facilities. | ||
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sirkrelian
Norway1 Post
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corpsepose
1678 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:03 Senorcuidado wrote: I really don't understand the hate against Morrow. He's trying out Zerg, sacrificing his incredibly high ladder ranking, against top tier players and TL makes fun of him for it? pretty much my thoughts morrow youve got balls, thats all i have to say | ||
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
It's cool that he is playing the race. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 Simi wrote: Every pro player should be able to play all race at high level. There win/loss ratio should* be the same for each race. When youre good, youre good with every race. So he should have the same win % with zerg. That's ridiculous. If that were true all pros would be going random in tournaments... | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
If he goes back to owning w/ terran = ... whatever Go MorroW, fun > winnig when money is not on the line | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:03 Senorcuidado wrote: I really don't understand the hate against Morrow. He's trying out Zerg, sacrificing his incredibly high ladder ranking, against top tier players and TL makes fun of him for it? That's the kind of thing that makes pros not want to deal with us. Agreed. The level of immaturity presented in this thread is ridiculous. People are hating on Morrow for offracing. Morrow is an excellent player, and people are arbitrarily venting out on him because he's a Terran player playing Zerg. The sad thing is, if Morrow was playing Protoss instead of Zerg, this thread would not have half as much of idiotic posts as it does right now. | ||
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JTWStephens
United States60 Posts
Can't wait for that 2v2 balance patch next year. OH BOY! | ||
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uppTagg
Sweden473 Posts
Also he's stalking decemvre for lessons! ;D (who is one sick zerg btw.. love to watch his stream and has made me wanna switch to Z from T myself) | ||
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SoJu.WeRRa
Korea (South)820 Posts
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john0507
164 Posts
But it'd be kinda sad that prolly the best Non-Korean Terran gone lost cos of screwing around lol. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:10 JTWStephens wrote: Fingers crossed he sticks as Zerg, so we can lol hard when he gets completely DEMOLISHED in every tournament. Can't wait for that 2v2 balance patch next year. OH BOY! That's not really nice =| Him trying is more than most people will ever do. | ||
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fiskrens
Sweden196 Posts
Some people use the ladder to try out new stuff, not only to boost his epeen. | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:09 Deathstar wrote: Agreed. The level of immaturity presented in this thread is ridiculous. People are hating on Morrow for offracing. Morrow is an excellent player, and people are arbitrarily venting out on him because he's a Terran player playing Zerg. The sad thing is, if Morrow was playing Protoss instead of Zerg, this thread would not have half as much of idiotic posts as it does right now. no they're hating on him for his posts saying that zerg is easy no problem i can win if i played zerg etc. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:01 MangoTango wrote: If you believe the rabblerousing masses on TL, he's probably pretty good at Zerg. :p are all your posts negative? put a happy face on welcome to the swarm morrow even if it's only temporary. unless it is temporary... then i write u off forever. | ||
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MrGrieves-
Canada23 Posts
Hope he gives it more of a shot and tries to challenge himself to climb back up the ladder as zerg. If he still tournaments as Terran that's completely understandable and I wouldn't blame him, it's for money after all lol. At least coming from such a strong Terran background he will have a very good idea of Terran timings. And hopefully he can exploit that once he gets zerg macro and timings down. | ||
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Kang19
Canada102 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:09 Deathstar wrote: Agreed. The level of immaturity presented in this thread is ridiculous. People are hating on Morrow for offracing. Morrow is an excellent player, and people are arbitrarily venting out on him because he's a Terran player playing Zerg. The sad thing is, if Morrow was playing Protoss instead of Zerg, this thread would not have half as much of idiotic posts as it does right now. No, it's more about him saying he could win easily with Zerg, and then his 0-15 streak. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... I hope you keep playing as zerg and win tournaments. please, switch to zerg! you will need some time to reach your level as terran, but you can do it. | ||
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lovewithlea
168 Posts
![[image loading]](http://uberding.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/griffins_balls_of_steel.jpg) from me for doing this with your real acc. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:18 danl9rm wrote: are all your posts negative? put a happy face on welcome to the swarm morrow even if it's only temporary. unless it is temporary... then i write u off forever. I'm not trying to be negative, it was supposed to be a joke. Hence the tongue smiley. And I prefaced with "if you believe the rabblerousing masses on TL." I do think TvZ is imbalanced at the highest levels, but not nearly as badly as everyone thinks. In Morrow's case, his offrace happens to be worse than his main, so he can't beat players offrace at the level he plays his main. Which is entirely natural. :| Blizzard, this is why we need separate ladder accounts for each race. So we can offrace and play the appropriate skill level opponent. | ||
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Competent
United States406 Posts
So far ZvZ has been my hardest match up, not terran or toss. | ||
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Santiago4ever
Sweden299 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:03 Senorcuidado wrote: I really don't understand the hate against Morrow. He's trying out Zerg, sacrificing his incredibly high ladder ranking, against top tier players and TL makes fun of him for it? That's the kind of thing that makes pros not want to deal with us. If I go out and offrace on ladder for a week you'd better believe I'll lose all my games. Morrow cares so little about his rating that he leaves within ten minutes a lot of those games. So why don't we let him do whatever he wants and stop stalking him? He's only about a million times better than any of us so why would he care what scrubs like us think. If Morrow does read this, props for trying something new. It would be crazy to see you winning tournaments as Zerg :D Nobody hates him for trying out Zerg...in fact, that in itself is a respect-worthy notion. The fact that he very arrogantly (and ridiculously IMO) claimed that he could win any tournament as Zerg is why people "hate" him now, and to see him lose so convincingly as Zerg is a very satisfying sight for Zerg players everywhere. | ||
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Arakash
Germany124 Posts
His match history doesn't mean a thing, his achievements do and they show that morrow is a pretty good player. This isn't some B Magazine or website, so don't act like it... | ||
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Lefnui
United States753 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... You can't blame people for wondering, after you said that you were tempted to switch just in order to prove people wrong about imbalance. If you continue with unchanged Zerg I think you'll find that it's difficult to back up that statement. | ||
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oHInsane
France727 Posts
Good luck with it tho | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy upload the replay! ^.^ | ||
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JQL
United States214 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy Grats on your first zerg win. | ||
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:40 Aegeis wrote: Not the biggest fan, but props for trying out Zerg. I didn't really like him because all I've seen him do is reaper rushes/20scv pushes/ and MMM most games. My position exactly. If he's great at Zerg, so much more power to him. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:40 Aegeis wrote: Not the biggest fan, but props for trying out Zerg. I didn't really like him because all I've seen him do is reaper rushes/20scv pushes/ and MMM most games. Then you haven't seen many games with him. | ||
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maliceee
United States634 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:46 nam nam wrote: Then you haven't seen many games with him. Please link me a game of his vs. a high level Zerg in which he did not try to abuse reapers. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
2) His losses are expected, considering he is playing 2k people with a race he doesnt even know the hotkeys for. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:17 whatusername wrote: no they're hating on him for his posts saying that zerg is easy no problem i can win if i played zerg etc. On September 29 2010 08:17 whatusername wrote: no they're hating on him for his posts saying that zerg is easy no problem i can win if i played zerg etc. On September 29 2010 08:31 mierin wrote: Nobody hates him for trying out Zerg...in fact, that in itself is a respect-worthy notion. The fact that he very arrogantly (and ridiculously IMO) claimed that he could win any tournament as Zerg is why people "hate" him now, and to see him lose so convincingly as Zerg is a very satisfying sight for Zerg players everywhere. Can you guys even read or are you just mindless drones instantly believing what you are being told? | ||
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john0507
164 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:03 Senorcuidado wrote: I really don't understand the hate against Morrow. He's trying out Zerg, sacrificing his incredibly high ladder ranking, against top tier players and TL makes fun of him for it? That's the kind of thing that makes pros not want to deal with us. If I go out and offrace on ladder for a week you'd better believe I'll lose all my games. Morrow cares so little about his rating that he leaves within ten minutes a lot of those games. So why don't we let him do whatever he wants and stop stalking him? He's only about a million times better than any of us so why would he care what scrubs like us think. If Morrow does read this, props for trying something new. It would be crazy to see you winning tournaments as Zerg :D No one actually hates him for trying zerg , just the arrogance of the person and the trash talking , which is even worse than Idra lol. Anyways , props for trying Zerg out too , but well tbh, he's definately no fruit dealer , and doubt he'd even come close to that caliber as zerg. | ||
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PrebenHood
Norway27 Posts
grow up and stop acting like little bitches your like little girls gossiping about what the other little girls are doing lol User was warned for this post | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:48 mierin wrote: Please link me a game of his vs. a high level Zerg in which he did not try to abuse reapers. I'm not your effing servant, do your own research. You say all you have seen him do is reaper rushes/20scv pushes/ and MMM most games which is blatantly not true. If you want to go on and believe that, see if I care... | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:48 nihlon wrote: Can you guys even read or are you just mindless drones instantly believing what you are being told? On September 14 2010 10:31 MorroW wrote: have you played 6 hours a day for all beta and release? no? ok maybe thats the problem. this many top terrans has done on our list but how many zerg foreigners has practiced as hard as us? terran is fucking OP but these tournament results cant give zerg more wins because we dont have any zergs to win any tournaments except dimaga, idra doesnt play these Just wanted to provide you a quote that lit a lot of Zerg players against MorroW from right here on these forums. MorroW made an idiotic statement that belittles every single Zerg player out there who isn't a big name and is getting stomped out of tourneys in the first round. Somehow thinking that "Zerg players" haven't played as many hours or tried as many new ideas as "Terran players" is idiotic. You have unknowns like Silver getting sponsorships because they are abusing obviously broken mechanics about the TvZ MU. Meanwhile, Zerg pros are becoming irrelevant due to their inability to win tourneys. There is something obviously wrong with Zerg in SC2, and having 1 more pro try out the race is plenty welcome, maybe he won't think "Zerg players" are just bad in the future. | ||
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Buhlbaid
Spain32 Posts
im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play 100% Agree. In my opinion one of the beauties of an e-sport resides in its complexity, wich consists in a mix of technique (mechanics) and knowledge (strategies). The thing that made BW so kick ass was his game depth (in every sense). I mean, i almost know every single strategy in BW and its counter, due to the hundreds of proleague, osl, msl matches i have seen. But... I couldnt manage to do anyone of them because they are really really hard to pull off. For example, when i saw Nal_rA shuttle+reaver control in his prime i ocasionally got really emotional because i knew it was super hard to execute, and i really enjoyed it (same happens in a normal sport when u see Federer or Kobe Bryant do amazing stuff) .This doesent happen in SC2 since I realize I can do almost every micro trick without almost practice. So i dont get suprised. I hardly consider the actual pro's "real pro's". Once youre above the technique you can create; you can be creative and people will really enjoy it, and they'll pay to see your magic. So you need a really deep technique; you need hundreds of intensive hours to be "ok" in BW. The level in SC2 is a joke, even in pro scene. Maybe 2 or 3 are "good" but the others just suck compared to BW progammers in terms of technique, knowledge of the game, RTS sense and much more... (not only the Korean). | ||
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ccdnl
United States611 Posts
edit: some1 who can be in contact with idra, PLEASE direct idra to this thread. | ||
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rathe
United States109 Posts
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dubRa
2165 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:49 john0507 wrote: No one actually hates him for trying zerg , just the arrogance of the person and the trash talking , which is even worse than Idra lol. Anyways , props for trying Zerg out too , but well tbh, he's definately no fruit dealer , and doubt he'd even come close to that caliber as zerg. Hmm... I defi don't agree that Morrow is a bigger trash talker than idrA. Were you here in bw times? I applaud MorroW for trying zerg. How about we give him a few months, then we will see what he can do. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:18 mierin wrote: I'll seriously eat my shoes if MorroW becomes a good Zerg. Yummy! I'm surprised MorroW is switching, this is unexpected to me. | ||
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GreyTemplar
22 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy Grats man!! Keep it up! You'll be up there in no time with the other Zerg Greats | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:35 motbob wrote: LMAO User was warned for this post | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On September 16 2010 22:05 IdrA wrote: lol morrow wins a single prized tournament with zerg and ill never say the word balance again | ||
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maliceee
United States634 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:59 Buhlbaid wrote: 100% Agree. In my opinion one of the beauties of an e-sport resides in its complexity, wich consists in a mix of technique (mechanics) and knowledge (strategies). The thing that made BW so kick ass was his game depth (in every sense). I mean, i almost know every single strategy in BW and its counter, due to the hundreds of proleague, osl, msl matches i have seen. But... I couldnt manage to do anyone of them because they are really really hard to pull off. For example, when i saw Nal_rA shuttle+reaver control in his prime i ocasionally got really emotional because i knew it was super hard to execute, and i really enjoyed it (same happens in a normal sport when u see Federer or Kobe Bryant do amazing stuff) .This doesent happen in SC2 since I realize I can do almost every micro trick without almost practice. So i dont get suprised. I hardly consider the actual pro's "real pro's". Once youre above the technique you can create; you can be creative and people will really enjoy it, and they'll pay to see your magic. So you need a really deep technique; you need hundreds of intensive hours to be "ok" in BW. The level in SC2 is a joke, even in pro scene. Maybe 2 or 3 are "good" but the others just suck compared to BW progammers in terms of technique, knowledge of the game, RTS sense and much more... (not only the Korean). lol. like you would be able to lick any of the top 100 player's boots. :/ | ||
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nemahsys
Canada457 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy grats dude. best of luck with the new race. Hope to see you at the next GSL! | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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Buhlbaid
Spain32 Posts
lol. like you would be able to lick any of the top 100 player's boots. :/ That was not the point;). Feel free to express ur opinion though. Anyway, only top 100? You give me a lot of credit, thats nice. I bet you wouldnt with the top 1500:D. | ||
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ohno.
1 Post
morrow's zerg against idra's terran lol. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:17 ohno. wrote: food for thought: morrow's zerg against idra's terran lol. Are you... Idra? | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
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febreze
167 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy Congratz! I hope you'll release "a learning zerg" replay pack. | ||
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maliceee
United States634 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:16 Buhlbaid wrote: [quote=maliceee]lol. like you would be able to lick any of the top 100 player's boots. :/ That was not the point;). Feel free to express ur opinion though. Anyway, only top 100? You give me a lot of credit, thats nice. I bet you couldnt with the top 500:D.[/QUOTE] Im not going to argue the point that bw required a ton more game sense in every manner possible. Where your point fails is that bw developed over the years, and was an expansion. Do you remember playing SC before the expansion? This game will develop to a point where it will hit a ceiling (imo its nowhere near that yet) and then the expansion will come. With that, on top of all of the strategies that will be perfected in this game, new units will be added which will create a complexity that is exponentially greater. Your point that there are only a "2-3" "good" players is what is stupid man. There is definitely a huge skill gap between the best players and the rest. | ||
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ckw
United States1018 Posts
Who knows, TLO might switch again soon? This stuff happens. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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aztrorisk
United States896 Posts
but seriously, I think Morrow will give Zerg a try and then quit once he hits a wall. | ||
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
Plus he's staying calm and insightful in a thread full of hateful people much worse at the game than he. Really nice to see | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:34 aztrorisk wrote: I quit toss and moved to zerg, but nobody seem to care about that.... but seriously, I think Morrow will give Zerg a try and then quit once he hits a wall. Is it a brick wall? A wooden plank perhaps? | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:19 darmousseh wrote: lol loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss loss I'm not sure how good he is at zerg yet. thats what happens u switch races... dont be ignorant. | ||
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:19 Raiden X wrote: So, your point is? Alot of people play around with other races. I do it all the time. And if you saw the Day 9 daily Tarson is messing with random. Playing other races is fun.Games are for fun. Don't look to much into it P.S. Where does it say he's playing zerg? Show another screen shot The amazing loss streak shows that he is doing something different, probably zerg. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:39 PhiliBiRD wrote: thats what happens u switch races... dont be ignorant. It hasn't happened to several top Zergs who switch, as mentioned earlier in this thread. (Dimaga, and Slush iirc) | ||
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Martinni
Canada169 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: fuck yea just won my first game as zerg Flayer 1812 diamond protoss (539 - 344) :D so happy You're awesome! Don't give up! :D | ||
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cromat
Afghanistan100 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:37 nihlon wrote: Is it a brick wall? A wooden plank perhaps? a barracks and a depot | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:19 jdr_ wrote: This is so horribly, horribly wrong. Morrow could play BW 12 hours a day and he wouldn't even be good enough to take games off a pro b-team. IdrA couldn't even get close to qualifying for an OSL or MSL despite living in a korean progaming house and playing all those hours. Being a pro BW player is A LOT more difficult than being a pro SC2 player. And warcraft 3 is just a completely different skillset, I played W3 competitively for a couple of years, but when i made the switch to BW I was awful just like everyone else. Took me 2k games to get to C on iccup. Yeah... its easier NOW. You're comparing being a pro in a game that's been out for 2 months, versus a game that's had a highly competitive scene in Korea for over 10 years. That's not exactly fair is it? Look how tough the GSL is getting already. Give it 10 years, and yes I think being an SC2 progamer will be just as hard as being a BW progamer is now. | ||
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Buhlbaid
Spain32 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:04 Subversion wrote: Yeah... its easier NOW. You're comparing being a pro in a game that's been out for 2 months, versus a game that's had a highly competitive scene in Korea for over 10 years. That's not exactly fair is it? Look how tough the GSL is getting already. Give it 10 years, and yes I think being an SC2 progamer will be just as hard as being a BW progamer is now. I hope your right. But it is hard to believe since BW mechanichs are fundamentally harder than SC2 due to the times and commercial issues. I think BW is clearly harder just looking at thim with so many evidences. Maybe in a year SC2 will have more depth, but never as much as BW. BW is technichally harder. That's my oppinion. I must say SC2 is an excellent game and makes me feel cool because i can win and in BW i couldnt. ^^ | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
Why would he quit after hitting a wall of depos? Banelings love them depos. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
For the sake of meaningful balance discussions, everyone on TL should just switch to Random. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:27 Eschaton wrote: What's with the cold bloodedness in this thread? Here you have a great player who is playing for the fun of it rather than being #1 on ladder, and all that most can say is that they hope he will get crushed. Of course it will take some time to get a feel for Zerg, it takes ANYONE some time. Soon enough MorroW will be doing fine on ladder as Zerg if he sticks with it. Maybe not #1, but that's probably not a realistic goal for a Z anyway. For the sake of meaningful balance discussions, everyone on TL should just switch to Random. I agree. He should be getting props for playing Zerg - especially for the reasons he mentioned. Dont know why people are deciding to talk shit about him.... He even admitted they are harder than the other races, so what else do people want? I wish him luck... and I see many people are upset about his past comments about Zerg players... well maybe once he has some more experience playing them for 6+ hours a day as well, he may think about things differently. Give the guy a chance, everyone out there has probably said something BM on a forum because they were misinformed and/or that they regret. | ||
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ZerOsAndOnEs
United States64 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:27 Eschaton wrote: What's with the cold bloodedness in this thread? Here you have a great player who is playing for the fun of it rather than being #1 on ladder, and all that most can say is that they hope he will get crushed. Of course it will take some time to get a feel for Zerg, it takes ANYONE some time. Soon enough MorroW will be doing fine on ladder as Zerg if he sticks with it. Maybe not #1, but that's probably not a realistic goal for a Z anyway. For the sake of meaningful balance discussions, everyone on TL should just switch to Random. Agreed. I thought very little of him after IEM with the Reapers. If it is true and he sticks it out with Zerg I will be quite impressed. Classy move if its true! IMO Zerg takes a lot more everything to play and it just shows how he want to better himself as a player. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:36 Spyridon wrote: I agree. He should be getting props for playing Zerg - especially for the reasons he mentioned. Dont know why people are deciding to talk shit about him.... He even admitted they are harder than the other races, so what else do people want? I wish him luck... and I see many people are upset about his past comments about Zerg players... well maybe once he has some more experience playing them for 6+ hours a day as well, he may think about things differently. Give the guy a chance, everyone out there has probably said something BM on a forum because they were misinformed and/or that they regret. The thing you might have missed was that he claimed he could win any tournament as Zerg, implying that the imba cries were unfounded. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:10 Buhlbaid wrote: I hope your right. But it is hard to believe since BW mechanichs are fundamentally harder than SC2 due to the times and commercial issues. I think BW is clearly harder just looking at thim with so many evidences. Maybe in a year SC2 will have more depth, but never as much as BW. BW is technichally harder. That's my oppinion. I must say SC2 is an excellent game and makes me feel cool because i can win and in BW i couldnt. ^^ I don't know about depth or fun or balance, but it's definitely not easy; we're seeing all the same faces at the top, and which of them never played an RTS competitively before? I can't think of one (I think someone said that someone in the GSL semis was a newbie, LiveForever I guess?). Just because certain mechanics are easier doesn't mean that the game is easier overall. It may not be of as much competitive worth, but that's for we as a community to decide. | ||
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royal.cze
Canada287 Posts
nuff said. | ||
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Kantutan
Canada1319 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:42 mierin wrote: The thing you might have missed was that he claimed he could win any tournament as Zerg, implying that the imba cries were unfounded. Still haven't seen this, link please? On September 29 2010 10:52 Kantutan wrote: It kind of baffles me how little the higher skilled players actually know about playing other races. Not knowing hotkeys is pretty bad, everyone should mess around with their offraces enough to at least know those. Think Morrow's only played T for like 3 years ;/ | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:21 UisTehSux wrote: Cool. I'm interested to see if, and hope that Morrow will turn out to be a sweet zerg player. He won't. Once Terran gets nerfed he'll fall off the radar. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Competent
United States406 Posts
Anyways can't wait till morrow starts kicking ass and winning tournies. | ||
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acceLL
46 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:55 pieisamazing wrote: He won't. Once Terran gets nerfed he'll fall off the radar. Yeah.. not like he was a great foreigner in brood war or anything.... | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:55 pieisamazing wrote: He won't. Once Terran gets nerfed he'll fall off the radar. You're joking, Morrow's a great player who has good gamesense and can play almost any playstyle(opposite of Idra) | ||
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acceLL
46 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:59 Shikyo wrote: You're joking, Morrow's a great player who has good gamesense and can play almost any playstyle(opposite of Idra) Don't bother, these people will never lose this stupid bias they have. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:00 acceLL wrote: Don't bother, these people will never lose this stupid bias they have. It's ironic that you hold this view yourself. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:00 acceLL wrote: Don't bother, these people will never lose this stupid bias they have. o.O If this were Civ 5, you'd have all the iron you'd ever need. | ||
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Dwar3xwar
39 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:30 crms wrote: while my post will be viewed as anecdotal and irrelevant (for the most part it is) I have done this on a smaller scale. With my P practice partner (1400+) I lose most series as Z. One day for fun I went T, I have no experience playing T outside of a few random games in beta, and won a series 2-1 going pretty much pure mmm. Had a pretty similar experience. I only dabbled in Terran during the beta in April-ish, much before the blossoming of strats. I recently played a few practice partners as T (they're around 1200-1300 diamond right now) and they were pretty easy wins, even when I didn't really have a game plan. My brother did the same, except that that was his very first game playing as Terran. It was a pretty close match, but he ended up winning. Terran ratings are so inflated its not even funny. | ||
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acceLL
46 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:01 pieisamazing wrote: It's ironic that you hold this view yourself. How so? I play protoss in SC2. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
Man I never saw someone as courageous as to go with a top account to dont mind incredibly bad losing streak (and thousands of ppl seeing/commenting) just to learn when he could just smurf or ask someone´s else acc .... | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:35 motbob wrote: By contrast, here's what happened when ZeeRaX switched to Terran (from Protoss): ![[image loading]](http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5674/zeerax.png) | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
I play random, so I don't see the bias I supposedly have that you clearly judged because of my icon. morrow wasn't some super great foreigner in brood war. He was above-average, sure, but wasn't in the league of any of the actual big name players. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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leeznon
United States255 Posts
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
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acceLL
46 Posts
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:10 cuppatea wrote: By contrast, here's what happened when ZeeRaX switched to Terran (from Protoss): what was zeerax doing in between the updates? my guess is practicing in customs. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:22 acceLL wrote: It had nothing to do with your icon, I didn't even notice it. Saying straight up "morrow will never win again once terran is nerfed" is just ridiculous because he already proved himself in BW. The only way you could say something like that is because of bias. Proved... what? He proved he's an above-average player that still can't compete with any of the foreign "pros." It's like I said that in my last post. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
hahaha, a valid question! | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
However, this assumes that he only plays zerg, as some have noted that he has also played and won some games as terran. He should not only realize that zerg is significantly more difficult to play, but that you have absurdly less tactical options and eventually come to understand that getting anywhere near he was in ladder requires much more effort. In any case, he won't win any significant tournaments as zerg any time soon. IMO. Nevertheless, sure props for him actually playing zerg. If he continues playing zerg in ladder, many more props. If he enters significant tournaments as zerg, damn. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:13 pieisamazing wrote: I play random, so I don't see the bias I supposedly have that you clearly judged because of my icon. morrow wasn't some super great foreigner in brood war. He was above-average, sure, but wasn't in the league of any of the actual big name players. he was really good at BW, specially for the short period of time he had. he is the n.1 foreigner in SC2. no one have won more tourneys than him. btw, in his first day as zerg he already beat 1800+ players. I really hope he switches to zerg. | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
But no seriously I imagine he can at least do decently with a few games under his belt. | ||
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Nonsense
United States53 Posts
terran = win, win, win, win, win, win, win, loss, win zerg = loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss quite sad | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
although one thing i would like, if he is unable to switch(as in give up because he cant get used to teh gameplay style) , he should al least apologize to all the zerg players he raged at for zerg not being hard at all to play. but like idra said, if he wins a major tournament as zerg i will never open my mouth on balance again. | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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PeT[uK]
United States412 Posts
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ploy
United States416 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:46 Nonsense wrote: this is the difference between playing terran and playing zerg. terran = win, win, win, win, win, win, win, loss, win zerg = loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss quite sad Such sound logic. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:48 TheAngelofDeath wrote: Oh MorroW, how are you gonna come on here and say anyone can play Zerg now? lol. anyone can. all i takes is the ability to click a button before the match starts. now to succeed with zerg, takes a bit of work. | ||
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Kantutan
Canada1319 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:38 ilbh wrote: he was really good at BW, specially for the short period of time he had. he is the n.1 foreigner in SC2. no one have won more tourneys than him. btw, in his first day as zerg he already beat 1800+ players. I really hope he switches to zerg. #1 foreigner? Hardly. He's up there for the time being though. Can't be certain where he stands unless he signs up for the GSL. | ||
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Fianchetto
United States157 Posts
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shynee
Canada180 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:23 Antoine wrote: what was zeerax doing in between the updates? my guess is practicing in customs. Look at that picture again. The graph shows that he dropped because of using a new race and regained his position shortly after... at the same ranking as when he was playing protoss. I've done the same thing by switching from terran to protoss. Get it now? | ||
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shynee
Canada180 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:46 Nonsense wrote: this is the difference between playing terran and playing zerg. terran = win, win, win, win, win, win, win, loss, win zerg = loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss quite sad Do you realized that he just started playing a new race against top level diamond players who primarily play 1 race since beta/release? If Huk switches to terran, I'm sure hes going to see loss loss loss loss loss until he gets used to it. | ||
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jw232
United States157 Posts
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epik640x
United States1134 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:02 epik640x wrote: The difference is that when Zerg players switch to Terran for a change they go on win streaks. I'm guessing that the difference there as well is that the Z -> T player plays to just win the games, most of the time via some abusive strat. Morrow plays to improve, and as he said, he concedes games if he makes just a small mistake. | ||
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:18 mierin wrote: I'll seriously eat my shoes if MorroW becomes a good Zerg. QFT. I expect pictures within the next year. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:07 xZiGGY wrote: so what if tlo switched races... :p He was random till 3 or so months ago ... | ||
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MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
he was T/Z 3 mounths ago. he stop playing P for a while now | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:54 shynee wrote: Look at that picture again. The graph shows that he dropped because of using a new race and regained his position shortly after... at the same ranking as when he was playing protoss. I've done the same thing by switching from terran to protoss. Get it now? Actually, if you check his game history, his rank fell because he stopped laddering entirely. Once he started again, this time with Terran, he immediately started climbing the ladder quite rapidly. There was never a period of "oh shit, I'm trying to learn a new race and keep losing!" | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:13 cuppatea wrote: Actually, if you check his game history, his rank fell because he stopped laddering entirely. Once he started again, this time with Terran, he immediately started climbing the ladder quite rapidly. There was never a period of "oh shit, I'm trying to learn a new race and keep losing!" You drop 300 points for not playing for a few weeks? | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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shynee
Canada180 Posts
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KiaL.Kiwi
Germany210 Posts
Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z. Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked. | ||
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funcmode
Australia720 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:20 IdrA wrote: well that was stupid of him hell... it's about damn time. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:21 shynee wrote: how come TLO was such a good Z player... he actually was better ZvT than TvT He's TLO, he does what he does. :-\ | ||
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Maeldun
Australia169 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:14 Shikyo wrote: You drop 300 points for not playing for a few weeks? The Red is world rank. The blue is points. I don't see how you think people had 2100 points on August 21; 2000 was just broken like last week. Red correlates to the red numbers on the right. | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:14 Shikyo wrote: You drop 300 points for not playing for a few weeks? He never dropped any points, he dropped ranking. | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:57 FabledIntegral wrote: We're nowhere near the skill ceiling. You see pro playres all the time even midgame dropping multiple mules. Medivacs have so much potential. Build orders can be so much more refined. Etc. Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. And btw : On September 29 2010 12:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote: Met him in laddergame today and was awfully suprised that he was playing Zerg till my friend told me "everyone knows already kiwi, your fucking late on this one" :D Though I am quite suprised on how many people think he does so bad with Z only because he is new to the race and has to play against people of the same skill as before. I'd be happy if he liked Zerg and stayed with it - but cmon, the best foreign Terran player (counting tournament wins) trys zerg and doesn't win anything at all? Shouldn't someone with such raw skill not be able to win at least a few games on ladder? Maybe it's my Z bias, but this sound about right to me - basically what you expect from someone switching from T/P to Z. Anecdotal evidence proving that the opposite switch is easy as fuck: I chose Terran by accident a few days ago and beat Lalush on Desert Oasis(!) while playing my first game as T since release, sporting 3k minerals all game long because my T macro absolutly sucked. I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote: Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all. | ||
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OFCORPSE
Sweden355 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:36 cuppatea wrote: He never dropped any points, he dropped ranking. oh hai we're in the same 2v2 ladder! Anyway, good luck to MorroW, I'd like to see him play Zerg for a while, would be funny if he actually manage to become a good Z player. There's so much hate in this thread, isn't the ladder for practicing? I'm sure most of you haters wouldn't even be able to win one game with your main race up at that level where he's playing. Just sayin'.. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
Idra's Terran vs Morrow's Zerg  | ||
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Nakas
United States148 Posts
Blizzard will hotfix nerf the fucking thing into the fucking ground. | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote: That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all. You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:39 cArn- wrote: Maybe because you don't ALWAYS want to drop mules asap ? You drop mules when you need it, not when it's ready. And btw : I did that too for fun and cuz I think zergs are cool, and I was winning a lot and probably easier than with terran at that time, does it mean I'm better than him or zergs are stronger than terrans ? None of those 2 statements are true so your point is invalid. he is talking about 1800+. your case don't count since you are not at their level. and the only reason I can see someone saving mule is for scans. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:49 cArn- wrote: You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules. Expansion I can kind of understand, if you are going to a gold. Otherwise it's a waste since they don't do anything to saturation. You can't plan ahead for worker losses (I'll not mule here, here, and here, for when they attack my mineral line), and you always need more minerals, gas heavy or not. | ||
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z00t
Australia976 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:20 IdrA wrote: well that was stupid of him Is there a hint of grudging respect at all? Personally, I think it's quite cool of Morrow to do this . If he goes Zerg fulltime, I'd definitely be a fan . | ||
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Victim
United States188 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote: That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all. Sometimes you really need Scan too. Having no energy from constant mules means that Terran will take a lot of damage from a sudden cloaked unit attack. Not to mention that just keeping tabs on your opponent's army at certain times can be key. | ||
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:00 ilbh wrote: he is talking about 1800+. your case don't count since you are not at their level. and the only reason I can see someone saving mule is for scans. I don't see how that is relevant at all, if the switch is harder at a pro level, it would be even harder at lower level. I don't get what you're getting at beside trying to put this evidence out of the window with some poor rating argument due to the lack of good reasons to make a solid point. Also I might not be 1800, I'm not 1000 either. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:43 Grond wrote: Showmatch! Idra's Terran vs Morrow's Zerg We need this! We need idra to not practice at all also! | ||
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Carthage
105 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:11 ReketSomething wrote: We need this! We need idra to not practice at all also! Hasn't idra played more games as terran in BW than as zerg in SC2? Not that big a difference. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:39 PhiliBiRD wrote: thats what happens u switch races... dont be ignorant. Not when you switch from zerg to terran by all accounts... dont be ignorant. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:24 blade55555 wrote: His zerg's pretty imba .But seriously if he's gonna switch to zerg and try to win a tournament with him he won't lol. Although if he somehow did Idra said he'd never say balance again lol. I don't think Morrow will even get decent with zerg they are a lot harder then terran imo. If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance. | ||
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velocitygirl
United Kingdom64 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:04 Shikyo wrote: I'm guessing that the difference there as well is that the Z -> T player plays to just win the games, most of the time via some abusive strat. Riiight, no pro terran focuses on "abusive strats" at all, especially in tournament situations. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote: If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance. Okay, define "good". I doubt he could even get as good as Dimaga, who has struggled to win any tournament...ever. Recently. | ||
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phungus420
United States179 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote: If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance. MorroW is a strong player. I'm sure he can learn how to play zerg well, but zerg is simply a weaker race, and I don't believe he will ever be able to win tournaments with zerg, like he does with Terran. I'd like to be proven wrong though; would be awesome just to see Idra's reaction. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:10 cArn- wrote: I don't see how that is relevant at all, if the switch is harder at a pro level, it would be even harder at lower level. I don't get what you're getting at beside trying to put this evidence out of the window with some poor rating argument due to the lack of good reasons to make a solid point. Also I might not be 1800, I'm not 1000 either. you can't judge game balancing or anything at lower levels, there is no parameter, everyone commit a lot of mistakes and everything else. that is my point, its so obvious. did I really need to explain? | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
It's one thing to stick with Zerg after Blizzard nerfs them into the ground but switching TO Zerg as a pro-gamer is career suicide. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:49 cArn- wrote: You kinda forgot 2 other reasons : getting a new expo running asap or recovering from workers losses. The less workers you have the more valuable mules are. Also some builds are way more gas heavy than some others so you end up not needing mules. The only reason would be saving for a scan, which doesn't address dropping 4-5 mules at once. Getting a new expo running asap or recovering from worker losses are completely irrelevant. If by "getting a new expo running," you mean "have mules mine at the new expo so your old expos don't mine out as fast," it'd be very situational and in no situation should you actually save over 50 energy to do so. Please think before trying to correct someone. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:43 Liquid`Jinro wrote: If I knew MorroW would switch to zerg fulltime Id bet you money hed become good -_- Hes got talent, and I dont care what anyone says about balance. Who wouldn't become good ? The point here is how long will it take for morrow to win any tournament with cash prize as Z ? I bet you money any good Z switching to T would win a tournament way before him.  | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:54 ilbh wrote: you can't judge game balancing or anything at lower levels, there is no parameter, everyone commit a lot of mistakes and everything else. that is my point, its so obvious. did I really need to explain? In warcraft 2 the only real difference between the Orcs and Humans were that humans didn't get bloodlust and human upgrades cost like twice as much gold. I wasn't good at that game, and yet I somehow know that the game is imbalaced toward orc. How is it possible that I know this? | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On September 29 2010 12:42 Fa1nT wrote: That's an odd thing to say. If you need minerals, your mules should have already been out. The only reason to save mules is if you want less minerals early game and more later, which is not really beneficial for terrans.. at all. I got to disagree with you, your not "Saving" mules.. your saving energy One MAJOR reason to save energy is because you might need detection or intel .. If they have banshees out, you save mules.. as soon as the banshee(s) are taken care of and your in the clear, you drop 2-3 mules.. I've seen this in plenty of pro matches.. I saw one pro's base getting harassed, and then after he took care of harassment he dropped the mules.. I geuss people are wary of losing their mules to harassment.. would make sense.. if your in an intense battle at your front, and your losing exposed depots, you might want to save energy for a emergency supply drop to get out of red so you can get that unit out to save yourself.. might want to drop mules on their tank line? If they deny your scouting viking with stalkers, you might need to scan, if you get in there with the scout, drop the vikings. Protoss might be saving energy to see if they need to rush out units.. as soon as your in the clear, chrono boost the nexus. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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graphene
Finland211 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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Eleclight
Finland70 Posts
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phungus420
United States179 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote: Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point. It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture. And yes, MorroW deserves credit for at least trying this. I don't understand doing so on his main account, since he is a high level player who's performance is closely followed and a massive loosing streak on the ladder could harm his invitational tourney prospects. But best of luck to him while playing Z. While I strongly agree Z is the weakest race, and hope Blizz fixes this to make top level tourneys more interesting, it would be cooler to actually see MorroW succede and become equivalently succesfull with Z as he is with T. I don't mind being wrong here, and as I said before I'd love to see IdrA eat his previous words. | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:34 phungus420 wrote: It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture. currently the face that morrow goes on a losing streak when switching to zerg. and that zeg players who switch to toss or terran. all that means is that the learning curve for zerg compared to toss and terran is huge. it speaks nothing for balance. simply put. its easier to play terran and toss, harder to play zerg. which im pretty sure everyone can already agree on. | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:34 phungus420 wrote: It doesn't mean nothing; it's just not ironclad evidence that totally proves the fact z is weaker. However keep in mind that when Zs switch to T/P, they typically don't hit the kind of loosing streaks MorroW is seeing. So while it doesn't prove the assertion Z is a weak race, MorroW's performance while playing Z does support that conjecture. If a zerg was 2200 rating and tried to off race then yes he would most likely get the exact same losing streak. Because there is no chance of him taking games off of top players before he learns the race properly. Don't apply gold level logic to the very top of the ladder. | ||
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hdkhang
Australia183 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:30 Eleclight wrote: Mad props to MorroW for going this far, especially on his main account. Most people seem to ignore the fact that MorroW just jumped into ladder as Zerg without much practice or reading up. His loss streaks mean nothing at this point. Agreed. People on these forums need to turn the hate dials down a notch. MorroW is one of the good guys. He is entitled to his opinions as well as his confidence in his abilities. Even if you don't agree with what he says, there is no need for trash. | ||
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phungus420
United States179 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:41 StarBrift wrote: If a zerg was 2200 rating and tried to off race then yes he would most likely get the exact same losing streak. Because there is no chance of him taking games off of top players before he learns the race properly. Don't apply gold level logic to the very top of the ladder. You sure about that? I think I've read on these forums that Dimaga had no issues when switching to T, and in fact started to outperform his Main race Z. Could be wrong though, but just from watching the GSL and other tournaments it simply seems like common sense to me that Z has problems. And no, I'm not a zerg player that's QQing, just stating my perception based on observing high level touney play. And like I've said before I'd like to see MorroW do well playing Z, I just don't expect it to happen. I mean he is a top level player, so he is going to be a good player when using Zerg, but I don't think he will come close to his current strength with T, ie I bet he will never take down a high $ tourney playing Z, no matter how much practice he puts into it; while on the flipside I'm fairly confident Idra or Dimaga could pull off better performances if they switched to T (something I wish Idra would just do, as his whining about Zs UPness is annoying, and he's an S-class pro playing for $$$, if he really feels T is stronger and would increase his earnings, he should do it already instead of complaining). | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
You can't really wing builds very well as zerg - there's no easy win build. It takes a while to get used to zerg with things like balancing army + drones and learning timings + counters for some of the more dangerous T/P openings. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 11:13 pieisamazing wrote: I play random, so I don't see the bias I supposedly have that you clearly judged because of my icon. morrow wasn't some super great foreigner in brood war. He was above-average, sure, but wasn't in the league of any of the actual big name players. stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race good luck morrow with zerg. as much as i am on the zerg QQ train. i actually hope you get good with them. | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
GL with whatever race you choose to play. :> | ||
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Mystix
Canada78 Posts
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
Other than Ret, Nony, and Idra, few or no foreigners had as much Brood War success as MorroW on the foreign scene in the past two years. This is the guy who finished second in the TSL2 ladder virtually out of the blue--just behind Idra and 417 points ahead of anyone else--when almost no one knew who he was and even fewer believed in him. On top of all that, in SC2 he's been successful with Terran from the start of beta through all of retail. Remember Terran hasn't always been this strong. He's earned his keep. Time to stop doubting him. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
dont understand why people are calling him brave though. he went from playing terran to zerg... how exactly is that being brave? dont get me wrong, i think its pretty cool of him to try new things... but what? brave? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:17 theqat wrote: Any skeptics of MorroW's skill reading this thread, please take my word for it: outside Korea, he is in the top 5 in terms of pure Starcraft talent, period. If he went to Korea he would be among the most successful foreigners. Other than Ret, Nony, and Idra, few or no foreigners had as much Brood War success as MorroW on the foreign scene in the past two years. This is the guy who finished second in the TSL2 ladder virtually out of the blue--just behind Idra and 417 points ahead of anyone else--when almost no one knew who he was and even fewer believed in him. He's earned his keep. Time to stop doubting him. I'd just like to say there's a MASSIVE difference between finishing second in the TSL and finishing in TSL ladder. Don't get me wrong, I know he's good, but I still feel like when I watched him he just didn't have that solid feeling other players exuded. I know my friend, who maxed out as a B- protoss, ended up beating him in a game so it might have biased me somewhat in how I judged him though (since I beat my B- friend all the time, I should have technically through the transitive property been able to beat MorroW?!). | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
How does the linked image proof MorroW is playing Zerg? | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 29 2010 14:45 hdkhang wrote: Agreed. People on these forums need to turn the hate dials down a notch. MorroW is one of the good guys. He is entitled to his opinions as well as his confidence in his abilities. Even if you don't agree with what he says, there is no need for trash. No, he really isn't. He's one of the "good guys" who taunt zerg with saying "oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament". But of course, he can't. | ||
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Mystix
Canada78 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:23 Saechiis wrote: I'm confused ... How does the linked image proof MorroW is playing Zerg? He's already confirmed it himself anyways. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:23 Saechiis wrote: I'm confused ... How does the linked image proof MorroW is playing Zerg? They looked up his match history... read the thread... MorroW also admits to it... sheesh. You think someone would just speculatively post a topic like this without checking? I mean they had to have access to his match history to even post this SS... | ||
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graphene
Finland211 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress How much do u wanna bet that morrow has a far higher IQ than u? | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:21 FabledIntegral wrote: I'd just like to say there's a MASSIVE difference between finishing second in the TSL and finishing in TSL ladder. Don't get me wrong, I know he's good, but I still feel like when I watched him he just didn't have that solid feeling other players exuded. I know my friend, who maxed out as a B- protoss, ended up beating him in a game so it might have biased me somewhat in how I judged him though (since I beat my B- friend all the time, I should have technically through the transitive property been able to beat MorroW?!). Of course finishing second in the ladder is much different than finishing second in the TSL, but he did it by such a wide margin and really demonstrated his work ethic by doing so. Anyway the point is his raw talent, which is clearly above and beyond--going from unknown to 2nd in TSL ladder to winningest SC2 tournament player in a little more than a year is sick by any standard. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On September 29 2010 13:44 velocitygirl wrote: Look at the build order in the last game in the list - he got eight pooled and left the game in the first two minutes! That must be annoying. Did Morrow supply blocked himself on 10/10. Am I missing something here? | ||
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z00t
Australia976 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress That is seriously badass - tell us about how you are finding Zerg! Do you favour a reactive macro style like Idra, or is there some other style you use? | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:05 MorroW wrote: i sent my overlord to scout and realized it was not safe timing because a marine would kill it, so i left. many dont know this but my way of practicing is that i tend to leave on minor mistakes, in sc1 i used to type out of a probe harass killed a scv I give props to any pro, especially if they live off of winning in SC, who switches races. people need to give this guy a break. He never said that his reason for playing zerg was to show that Zerg isnt UP, but somehow all the SC2 balance discussion trolls got attracted to this thread to spread the hate. He even said himself that Zerg mechanics are harder than T or P. Yeesh.. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:27 waxypants wrote: Yeah, A level BW Terran is just above average..... rofl It makes me laugh too. I'm not personally a big fan of MorroW (not for any particular reason), but he's obviously a very talented player. It seems to me like Zerg has a steep learning curve. At the ratings he plays at, I wouldn't expect him to win very many games by winging it with a new race. Granted, switching from Zerg to Terran is probably a lot easier (sorry, can't help it). Cheers and keep it up MorroW | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:28 z00t wrote: That is seriously badass - tell us about how you are finding Zerg! Do you favour a reactive macro style like Idra, or is there some other style you use? well my goal right now is just to play like idra/darkforce/dimaga(dimagas macro style). the only way u can manage to win is by playing real, which for the record i did with terran aswell | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:21 FabledIntegral wrote: I'd just like to say there's a MASSIVE difference between finishing second in the TSL and finishing in TSL ladder. Don't get me wrong, I know he's good, but I still feel like when I watched him he just didn't have that solid feeling other players exuded. I know my friend, who maxed out as a B- protoss, ended up beating him in a game so it might have biased me somewhat in how I judged him though (since I beat my B- friend all the time, I should have technically through the transitive property been able to beat MorroW?!). one game doesn't mean anything. I beat a progamer in one game on iccup so by the transitive property I should be playing in proleague. | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress The thing is Morrow that your highly publicised win over IdrA in the IEM has really been a curse to you in many ways. Your macro was flawless and your reaper micro was totally awesome in those games and I don't think you're given enough credit for how well you played. Sure, it exposed a weakness in the zerg race, but I for one never thought it made you a lesser player. I like the fact that you are playing zerg as well. I doubt that you will be as successful with zerg as you are with Terran, but that's to be expected given the current state of the zerg race (though I fully expect that with enough application you could become one of the best zergs out there). At the very least playing zerg will give you an appreciation of the race and more understanding on how to beat it if/when you switch back to Terran. The funniest thing about this... all of your critics commenting in this thread would probably be slaughtered by your zerg play. | ||
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moosh
United States118 Posts
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Jimmy Raynor
902 Posts
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Seraph.yongweihua
Canada224 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:33 LuckyFool wrote: one game doesn't mean anything. I beat a progamer in one game on iccup so by the transitive property I should be playing in proleague. Think you failed to detect the sarcasm. | ||
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Awesomesauce
Belgium69 Posts
Don't understand why everyone is bashing him here on TL :x Good luck with the swarm morrow | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10751 Posts
Judge then. Wtf were some guys here thinking? You switch your race when you sit basically on top of the ladder and don't lose some points in the beginning? | ||
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OhNoItsTheMunch
United States96 Posts
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:38 Thurokiir wrote: It takes balls to do what you're doing man, Best of luck to you and I hope you learn the race at a high level! =D. Not to diss Morrow or anything, but it really doesn't take massive amounts of courage to ladder a dozen games on a different race in an RTS. Ladder != tournament with money on the line Ladder = playing a multiplayer video game in your own home There's no need to attach all this melodrama to every aspect of the game. Save it for the tournaments, imo. | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:42 Seraph.yongweihua wrote: I didn't think his macro was that good in his game against Idra in the IEM. His micro was certainly amazing, but I still think his macro was lacking. The thing that stuck out to me was in the final game where he hid the factory in the back of the base where it couldn't be scouted. It was really good positioning, which basically won him the game. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:42 FabledIntegral wrote: Srsly man I should be in proleague.Think you failed to detect the sarcasm. | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:25 FabledIntegral wrote: They looked up his match history... read the thread... MorroW also admits to it... sheesh. You think someone would just speculatively post a topic like this without checking? I mean they had to have access to his match history to even post this SS... If MorroW has confirmed to be playing Zerg why doesn't the OP just quote it? I don't have time to read entire threads like these so I'm just asking how the linked image proved MorroW was playing Zerg. Correct answer was that it doesn't. WIth the amount of BS threads even on a quality forum like TL I'd rather not take the word of a random person. Nice that he's playing some Zerg though, I hope he can make it OP | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: wow a morrow reppack would be awesome!!! thanks if you do!stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress | ||
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fAnTaCy
United States893 Posts
Srsly LuckyFool will be the next Flash..just wait | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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W.O.L.F.Y.
Germany98 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:17 Saechiis wrote: If MorroW has confirmed to be playing Zerg why doesn't the OP just quote it? I don't have time to read entire threads like these so I'm just asking how the linked image proved MorroW was playing Zerg. Correct answer was that it doesn't. WIth the amount of BS threads even on a quality forum like TL I'd rather not take the word of a random person. Nice that he's playing some Zerg though, I hope he can make it OP The op is very lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if he started the thread just so people would flame Morrow, otherwise he would have updated the first post with Morrows responses or given more information. Basically he's just trying out zerg for a while. You could always check Morrows post history to see what he has written in this thread. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:03 MorroW wrote: stuff like this makes me lol. above-avarage? towards the end i had way over 50% win result vs top foreigners. i was for sure in the top3 best terran outside of korea (counting idra as in korea) but since i was a new player and practiced so hard the last 2 iccup seasons where i massgamed vs koreans during this period of time i only got into the tsl where i lost to kolll 1-3, did never get to prove myself in that game but i promise im not lying here :/ i think im gonna be underrated for life, finally doing well with terran and everyone claims it on my race i learned so much yesterday about zerg and i will keep play them today. i already beat a toss with 800 games on his account after 20 zerg games which makes me very positive i can get back up on the ladder soon. didnt expect a thread to be made at all, or get this many pages but since interest is so high ill be glad to release a rep pack of my progress Progress report 4tw. Good luck to ya. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:26 mierin wrote: Honestly nobody should be able to talk shit about Zerg unless they compete in a legit tournament as them. MorroW, if you do this, I'll respect you. If not, well, I can't blame you as making money off of the easy race is a no-brainer. There's one thing I can say about some zerg players without competing in a legit tournament - if they're really as underpowered as they claim, then people who keep playing zerg when money is on the line, because "zerg take more skill" are fucking stupid. It's like running a marathon barefoot because "that's how the ancient greeks did it". You're going to lose to anyone wearing running shoes. (this is of course dependent on the assumption that Zerg really is that horribly underpowered, which, if you read carefully, I didn't comment on either way.) To save the Zerg it needs to stop being the martyr race, with every top level zerg player being a human sacrifice on the altar of True Skill. Zerg needs a better reason to play it than that. | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
Obviously it's only 1 game and I'm nowhere near Morrow's level but I thought it was quite funny to be cluelessly stumbling around with a race I don't know how to play and beat someone I'd have struggled against with Zerg. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:46 kojinshugi wrote: There's one thing I can say about some zerg players without competing in a legit tournament - if they're really as underpowered as they claim, then people who keep playing zerg when money is on the line, because "zerg take more skill" are fucking stupid. Many zerg's are switching races it seems. Even IdrA talked about changing for GSL2 on SotG the other day | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:49 cuppatea wrote: Just played a game as Terran on my own account (I'm a 1400 Zerg with zero experience with T outside of random team games) and beat a favoured Protoss opponent who probably would have crushed me if I was using my own race. Obviously it's only 1 game and I'm nowhere near Morrow's level but I thought it was quite funny to be cluelessly stumbling around with a race I don't know how to play and beat someone I'd have struggled against with Zerg. Switch race or don't post. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
Morrow 1# i think he can afford to offrace a bit | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:23 fAnTaCy wrote: Srsly LuckyFool will be the next Flash..just wait Nonono, you mean he is the next Flash. Props to MorroW for trying new stuff. I'd be extremely surprised if he immediately started winning with an off-race that's considered the most mechanically demanding out of the three. A loss streak can be attributed more to the fact that it's his off-race not completely due to balance -.- | ||
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
I'm definitely thinking about it (switching races that is...). | ||
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john0507
164 Posts
And I don't know why some people think it's a big deal losing LADDER points. Unless he goes into some relatively decent sized tournament when money is on the line and goes with zerg , i really don't think this is anything. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:55 Sqq wrote: FAO MorroW. I think one of the reason you're seen as "overrated" because of your race is the comment at IEM. IdrA - spending 12 hours a day practicing his race, and you said "I used a few hours yesterday to practice my reaper micro". It just goes to show how ridiculous Terran was \ is. That's not what he said... | ||
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JohnGreggor
Canada148 Posts
The thing is Morrow that your highly publicised win over IdrA in the IEM has really been a curse to you in many ways. Your macro was flawless and your reaper micro was totally awesome in those games and I don't think you're given enough credit for how well you played. Actually I found his reaper micro fairly lacking in comparison to Idra and have been a bit on the hate train because of that. This of course means I haven't seen many of his other matches which is probably true for lots of the haters in this thread. But I'm sure many of us enjoy ZvX more than TvX so the haters should die down a bit as they see how he actually plays. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 29 2010 15:17 theqat wrote: Any skeptics of MorroW's skill reading this thread, please take my word for it: outside Korea, he is in the top 5 in terms of pure Starcraft talent, period. If he went to Korea he would be among the most successful foreigners. Other than Ret, Nony, and Idra, few or no foreigners had as much Brood War success as MorroW on the foreign scene in the past two years. This is the guy who finished second in the TSL2 ladder virtually out of the blue--just behind Idra and 417 points ahead of anyone else--when almost no one knew who he was and even fewer believed in him. roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 16:55 Sqq wrote: FAO MorroW. I think one of the reason you're seen as "overrated" because of your race is the comment at IEM. IdrA - spending 12 hours a day practicing his race, and you said "I used a few hours yesterday to practice my reaper micro". It just goes to show how ridiculous Terran was \ is. Even if he did say that, let's analyze what it is and why you're talking out of your ass: Spending several hours practicing microing a single unit the day before vs Spending 12 hours a day practicing his entire race It's like you're comparing bacon to the Olympics. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
edit: Oh snap!  | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. You're gonna win lots of friends with that last comment, I'm sure. Nothing like carpet bombing your insults, huh? | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:12 kojinshugi wrote: Even if he did say that, let's analyze what it is and why you're talking out of your ass: Spending several hours practicing microing a single unit the day before vs Spending 12 hours a day practicing his entire race It's like you're comparing bacon to the Olympics. Actually, I believe his actual quote was 2 hours. Gonna look it up, however. | ||
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skronch
United States2717 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. lol YES bring it on. this has to be a grudgematch in the making. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:17 Seam wrote: Actually, I believe his actual quote was 2 hours. Gonna look it up, however. So what? Practicing micro of a single unit the night before a match doesn't take 12 hours, and equivocating it with Idra's general training regimen is not a reasonable comparison. EDIT: Also, ITT, Idra admitting he lost as a ringer in a cripple fight? | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:12 kojinshugi wrote: Even if he did say that, let's analyze what it is and why you're talking out of your ass: Spending several hours practicing microing a single unit the day before vs Spending 12 hours a day practicing his entire race It's like you're comparing bacon to the Olympics. Oh you think you're so smart doing the backon \ olympics reference just because you listened to State of the game. Guess what it makes you look a complete tool. The point I was making is that because he practiced a few hours with a unit, he could secure a win at IEM. Which in itself is fucking idiotic. If you listened to the state of the game you might have heard what they talked about last week. That players playing less than so and so many hours a week will never become the best. Its weird that MorroW could practice with a singel unit just before a final and get such a HUGE advantage. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:19 kojinshugi wrote: So what? Practicing micro of a single unit the night before a match doesn't take 12 hours, and equivocating it with Idra's general training regimen is not a reasonable comparison. EDIT: Also, ITT, Idra admitting he lost as a ringer in a cripple fight? 12 hours a day of overall practice. vs 2 hours one time on a unit that then absolutely crippled his opponent. I wonder which took more work... (Anyone know where I can find the interviews from IEM? It was after his either IdrA or Dimaga game) | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. almost everyone cheated dodging koreans. anyway, he is one of the best foreigners in SC2 and you can't deny that. he is switching from T to Zerg, you should support him lol | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:21 Sqq wrote: Oh you think you're so smart doing the backon \ olympics reference just because you listened to State of the game. Guess what it makes you look a complete tool. Yes, a joke made at the end of my post invalidates what I said before it. Can you post a link to your diploma from the Online University of Debating Like an Asshat? The point I was making is that because he practiced a few hours with a unit, he could secure a win at IEM. Which in itself is fucking idiotic. If you listened to the state of the game you might have heard what they talked about last week. That players playing less than so and so many hours a week will never become the best. Its weird that MorroW could practice with a singel unit just before a final and get such a HUGE advantage. Yes, because MorroW has never practiced SC2 before in his life. He came in cold and his entire experience was limited to practicing reaper micro for two hours the day before. He, like every player who ever beats Idra, is obviously a worthless scrub who 1a2a3a's his way to an undeserved victory. (to the Aspie population of TL.net - the above is sarcasm) | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:30 ilbh wrote: almost everyone cheated dodging koreans. anyway, he is one of the best foreigners in SC2 and you can't deny that. he is switching from T to Zerg, you should support him lol oh i absolutely support it since it'll prove what a joke the game is right now without risking the reputation of one of the 5 remaining competitive zergs. but people mentioning him in the same breath as me nony and ret for sc1 cannot happen, especially on the basis of that ladder. | ||
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Bswhunter
Australia954 Posts
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Foogs
40 Posts
This isn't a jab at all, just curious to what you think. Sorry if I missed your take on it in another thread somewhere. MAXIMUM RE-SPECT *snaps fingers like ali g* | ||
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smileyyy
Germany1816 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:39 Foogs wrote: IdrA I would love to hear your take on why Cool is having so much success in the GSL. Is it because he is mixing his game up so much and predicting builds of the other players? Or is it because he's extremely lucky? This isn't a jab at all, just curious to what you think. Sorry if I missed your take on it in another thread somewhere. MAXIMUM RE-SPECT *snaps fingers like ali g* His Fruits are just this much bigger than everyones else. Ps: <----------------------------------> - ^= [cm] = 50 cm | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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JohnGreggor
Canada148 Posts
roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. Omg I'm humbled to have the Idra flame warming the bottom of my post, tell it like it is brotha. Props for sticking with Z so long in this hostile environment and playing solid games. Anyways, is debating if Morrow was worth a damn or not in SC1 really relevant? He has the highest amount of SC2 tourney wins and backs his stance with that fact. Even if he was a D player in BW it doesn't change what he has accomplished now. | ||
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midgettoes
Australia180 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:34 IdrA wrote: oh i absolutely support it since it'll prove what a joke the game is right now without risking the reputation of one of the 5 remaining competitive zergs. but people mentioning him in the same breath as me nony and ret for sc1 cannot happen, especially on the basis of that ladder. I know you are a very well established player, and you are very well respected for your playstyle. But you seriously need to stop being so bitter imo. To be honest, you didn't lose the GSL because you are a bad player, or your race is underpowered, you lost because you were outplayed. In my books you are only as good as your last match, and that didn't give me evidence to suggest Zerg is horribly underpowered. MorroW, I hope you put in the hard yards and do well as Zerg. I would love to tune into the go4SC2 cup this week to see MorroW(Z) playing, and progressing. You have shown you are willing to put in the time and have the ability to be a top level player and hopefully results reflect this. That said, please don't give up your Terran completely You are certainly one of the top 3 players I want to watch right now, and that's because of your cool playstyle. :D | ||
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w1kk
Germany17 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:44 infinity2k9 wrote: It is annoying acting people like MorroW just turned up in SC2...he, along with Kolll was one of the most recent impressive up and coming foreign players in BW. Thats how it goes if you abuse to the max. Still a very good player without abuse.Thats life. If he can make it with zerg he gets some respect. Otherwise he stays the nr.1 terran abuser for the biggest part of the community. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
he would need a month to be good as zerg and even then he can't be sure if he would be also at the top as zerg. so, I don't think he will keep playing as zerg. he was probably just checking/testing the race. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:46 Gono wrote: Anyways, is debating if Morrow was worth a damn or not in SC1 really relevant? He has the highest amount of SC2 tourney wins and backs his stance with that fact. Even if he was a D player in BW it doesn't change what he has accomplished now. If Idra wins - he's an amazing player. If Idra loses - the opponent is a one-trick pony scrub, and SC2 is a complete joke anyway, and by the way several years ago Idra was a promising foreigner in a different, albeit related RTS! | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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w1kk
Germany17 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:48 ilbh wrote: we have to admit it is kind of retarded to switch to another race when you are at the top. he would need a month to be good as zerg and even then he can't be sure if he would be also at the top as zerg. so, I don't think he will keep playing as zerg. he was probably just checking/testing the race. of course he will not stay with zerg. he is doing it for the money. and you cant win money with zerg unless you are a fruitseller. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:34 IdrA wrote: oh i absolutely support it since it'll prove what a joke the game is right now without risking the reputation of one of the 5 remaining competitive zergs. but people mentioning him in the same breath as me nony and ret for sc1 cannot happen, especially on the basis of that ladder. Come down from the clouds for 2 seconds and realize that an A level BW Terran foreigner is damn good and is probably better than 99% of RTS players ever. Just because someone isn't up to the skill level of people who play 12 hours a day doesn't mean they don't deserve any respect whatsoever. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:48 w1kk wrote: Thats how it goes if you abuse to the max. Still a very good player without abuse.Thats life. If he can make it with zerg he gets some respect. Otherwise he stays the nr.1 terran abuser for the biggest part of the community. You mean the vocal minority that plays Zerg because it's the one race where you can constantly lose and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races are imba and Zerg takes true skill? | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:34 IdrA wrote: oh i absolutely support it since it'll prove what a joke the game is right now without risking the reputation of one of the 5 remaining competitive zergs. but people mentioning him in the same breath as me nony and ret for sc1 cannot happen, especially on the basis of that ladder. It's good thing then that nony and ret can't be mentioned in the same breath for sc2. Why don't you switch to terran and prove it yourself? | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:33 kojinshugi wrote: Yes, a joke made at the end of my post invalidates what I said before it. Can you post a link to your diploma from the Online University of Debating Like an Asshat? Yes, because MorroW has never practiced SC2 before in his life. He came in cold and his entire experience was limited to practicing reaper micro for two hours the day before. He, like every player who ever beats Idra, is obviously a worthless scrub who 1a2a3a's his way to an undeserved victory. (to the Aspie population of TL.net - the above is sarcasm) Wow you're references gets worse by the post. I'm glad you've acquired the talent of reusing shitty internet insults, and your effort is far from going unnoticed. I never said he didn't play alot, I'm referring to how much of an upper-hand he could get from 2 hours of practicing the night BEFORE the finals. My point was essentially that it might be a reason to why he isn't universally viewed as a top top player by everyone (which anyone who wins an IEM should). But as the flawless and brilliant persona that you are did not make this connection, I'm inclined to believe that you're a) a douche b) mentally challenged, or c) both. | ||
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w1kk
Germany17 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:52 kojinshugi wrote: You mean the vocal minority that plays Zerg because it's the one race where you can constantly lose and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races are imba and Zerg takes true skill? you got it! | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:52 kojinshugi wrote: You mean the vocal minority that plays Zerg because it's the one race where you can constantly lose and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races are imba and Zerg takes true skill? I'd say it beats being the vocal majority that plays Terran because it's the one race where you can constantly win and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races don't know how to be creative and play right | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:54 Sqq wrote: Wow you're references gets worse by the post. I'm glad you've acquired the talent of reusing shitty internet insults, and your effort is far from going unnoticed. I never said he didn't play alot, I'm referring to how much of an upper-hand he could get from 2 hours of practicing the night BEFORE the finals. My point was essentially that it might be a reason to why he isn't universally viewed as a top top player by everyone (which anyone who wins an IEM should). But as the flawless and brilliant persona that you are did not make this connection, I'm inclined to believe that you're a) a douche b) mentally challenged, or c) both. How do you know how it would have went if he didn't do the reaper play. It seems that you are assuming he would have been way behind without the reapers. | ||
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Deleted User 55994
949 Posts
he's gotta be having fun doing it otherwise he probably wouldn't have played 30 losses in a row | ||
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Grimmy
South Africa29 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:39 Foogs wrote: IdrA I would love to hear your take on why Cool is having so much success in the GSL. Is it because he is mixing his game up so much and predicting builds of the other players? Or is it because he's extremely lucky? This isn't a jab at all, just curious to what you think. Sorry if I missed your take on it in another thread somewhere. MAXIMUM RE-SPECT *snaps fingers like ali g* Cool said he only wins 10% of the practice matches against his team mates as Zerg. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:03 Grimmy wrote: Cool said he only wins 10% of the practice matches against his team mates as Zerg. That doesn't matter if he keeps winning tournament games against T. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
But I just ignore it when others argue in threads like these. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:54 Sqq wrote: Wow you're references gets worse by the post. I'm glad you've acquired the talent of reusing shitty internet insults, and your effort is far from going unnoticed. Yawn. I never said he didn't play alot, I'm referring to how much of an upper-hand he could get from 2 hours of practicing the night BEFORE the finals. My point was essentially that it might be a reason to why he isn't universally viewed as a top top player by everyone (which anyone who wins an IEM should). But as the flawless and brilliant persona that you are did not make this connection, I'm inclined to believe that you're a) a douche b) mentally challenged, or c) both. He practiced microing a single unit that his build depended on. How fucking hard is that to comprehend? How long do you need to practice reaper micro on the previous day before you can use 3 rax reaper? 4 hours? 6 hours? Wait, you can't use 3 rax reaper, because it's an imba strategy vs Zerg. Morrow should have picked a mediocre strategy that would lower his chances of winning. He should have traveled to Korea and practiced for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, because SC2 is not a competitive game where winning matters, but rather a ritualized martial art where going through the motions and living up to esoteric ideals is the only way to gain respect. The reason he isn't universally viewed as a top player is because he plays Terran (and doesn't do the flashy nukeapaloozas of TLO), and Zerg fanboys are disproportionally represented. | ||
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lovewithlea
168 Posts
MorroW i really am impressed that you don't give a fuck what people think. I did not aprove your comments in that one particular thread that was quoted somewhere above saying Terrans practice more then Zerg. But #1 doing this with your top5 rating and #2 giving feedback in this thread + #3 telling us to give us the replay pack + #4 hopefully doing that soon gives me a broner again + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_E8BpJEni77I/SuYUQc6tC0I/AAAAAAAAK5Q/bUY8gxh9yaY/s400/balls+of+steel+hood+sized+copy.jpg) from me | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:05 PanzerKing wrote: That doesn't matter if he keeps winning tournament games against T. In a calm non-competitive situation when everyone thinks rationally he only wins 10% In tournaments where his ability to keep...cool... really shows he's better then them. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:01 AdrenalinG wrote: I'd say it beats being the vocal majority that plays Terran because it's the one race where you can constantly win and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races don't know how to be creative and play right Either way, the attitude that most Z players have is creating an inbred, backwards community of overly-defensive players who won't get any better until they stop convincing themselves that they're outplaying the opponent. It's simply not the way to get better at the game - you accept it for what it is, admit your weaknesses, and work on fixing them. Every time you open your mouth and make excuses for a loss, you retard your growth as a player - it's that simple. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:07 lovewithlea wrote: i didn't follow BW much. could someone explain to me what is meant by ladder abuse? MorroW i really am impressed that you don't give a fuck what people think. I did not aprove your comments in that one particular thread that was quoted somewhere above saying Terrans practice more then Zerg. But #1 doing this with your top5 rating and #2 giving feedback in this thread + #3 telling us to give us the replay pack + #4 hopefully doing that soon gives me a broner again + Show Spoiler + from me Lovin this quote... I need to come to the TL forums more often. Can't wait for some updates. I'm heading to bed now, looking forward to reading 10 pages of this when I wake up. =D | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:01 AdrenalinG wrote: I'd say it beats being the vocal majority that plays Terran because it's the one race where you can constantly win and still claim you're better than your opponent because the other two races don't know how to be creative and play right Blizz should just release a Martyr Edition of SC2 for you people. The box wouldn't contain a game, but just a Wakizashi with the Zerg logo embossed on the blade. | ||
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Jaug
Sweden249 Posts
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Rawenkeke
Norway350 Posts
So, morrow was 2.7k pts? Highly doubt that, he lost 150-250Max. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:46 midgettoes wrote: I know you are a very well established player, and you are very well respected for your playstyle. But you seriously need to stop being so bitter imo. To be honest, you didn't lose the GSL because you are a bad player, or your race is underpowered, you lost because you were outplayed. In my books you are only as good as your last match, and that didn't give me evidence to suggest Zerg is horribly underpowered. theres a difference between giving your opinion about something and being bitter. i think IdrA is just speaking his mind, whats wrong with that? he simply doesnt believe morrow was on his or level or the players hes mentioned. certainly doesnt sound bitter to me. unless i missed it i dont see where he complains about him losing the GSL because of imbalance or whatever. | ||
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berzerger
Turkey95 Posts
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:07 kojinshugi wrote: Yawn. He practiced microing a single unit that his build depended on. How fucking hard is that to comprehend? How long do you need to practice reaper micro on the previous day before you can use 3 rax reaper? 4 hours? 6 hours? Wait, you can't use 3 rax reaper, because it's an imba strategy vs Zerg. Morrow should have picked a mediocre strategy that would lower his chances of winning. He should have traveled to Korea and practiced for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, because SC2 is not a competitive game where winning matters, but rather a ritualized martial art where going through the motions and living up to esoteric ideals is the only way to gain respect. The reason he isn't universally viewed as a top player is because he plays Terran (and doesn't do the flashy nukeapaloozas of TLO), and Zerg fanboys are disproportionally represented. again you totally fail to see what I said. The fact that all he needed to do was a few hour practice before his match to get a huge advantage, I'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of argue or if you're completely dumb. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:21 Angelbelow wrote: theres a difference between giving your opinion about something and being bitter. i think IdrA is just speaking his mind, whats wrong with that? he simply doesnt believe morrow was on his or level or the players hes mentioned. certainly doesnt sound bitter to me. unless i missed it i dont see where he complains about him losing the GSL because of imbalance or whatever. Publicly stating that the guy who beat you at a major tournament is the third smartest retard in special ed class isn't bitter? | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:07 kojinshugi wrote: He practiced microing a single unit that his build depended on. How fucking hard is that to comprehend? How long do you need to practice reaper micro on the previous day before you can use 3 rax reaper? 4 hours? 6 hours? Not to be mean, but you're gold. What do you even know of micro practice? Give one reason why you know that practicing for 2 hours on microing one unit > 12 hours a day microing many units. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:29 Sqq wrote: again you totally fail to see what I said. The fact that all he needed to do was a few hour practice before his match to get a huge advantage, I'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of argue or if you're completely dumb. It seems that you are assuming that without practicing his reaper strategy that he would have been way behind or something. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:31 waxypants wrote: It seems that you are assuming that without practicing his reaper strategy that he would have been way behind or something. No he wouldn't have been far behind, but the fact that 2 hours of practicing gave him a huge advantage is my point. That there is such a unit that you can sit down the day before a fucking final and practice with a few hours and get a huge advantage. I'm sure Morrow would have brought the game to IdrA even without it, but you can't help but feel because of the unit (reaper - terran t1) gave him such a lead, that alot of people felt that when he said "Yeah I used 2 hours the day before to practice the reaper micro" that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:35 Sqq wrote: No he wouldn't have been far behind, but the fact that 2 hours of practicing gave him a huge advantage is my point. That there is such a unit that you can sit down the day before a fucking final and practice with a few hours and get a huge advantage. I'm sure Morrow would have brought the game to IdrA even without it, but you can't help but feel because of the unit (reaper - terran t1) gave him such a lead, that alot of people felt that when he said "Yeah I used 2 hours the day before to practice the reaper micro" that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Actually, he may have been far behind. If he didn't practice it, the reapers would have died to the lings. This means IdrA spends less gas and minerals on Roaches and lings, which means more drones, which would have put him far ahead, actually. Not to mention a faster lair. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:35 Sqq wrote: No he wouldn't have been far behind, but the fact that 2 hours of practicing gave him a huge advantage is my point. That there is such a unit that you can sit down the day before a fucking final and practice with a few hours and get a huge advantage. I'm sure Morrow would have brought the game to IdrA even without it, but you can't help but feel because of the unit (reaper - terran t1) gave him such a lead, that alot of people felt that when he said "Yeah I used 2 hours the day before to practice the reaper micro" that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Sure, so what's the point? Even MorroW said the day after the final this his build was probably OP. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:36 Seam wrote: Actually, he may have been far behind. If he didn't practice it, the reapers would have died to the lings. This means IdrA spends less gas and minerals on Roaches and lings, which means more drones, which would have put him far ahead, actually. Not to mention a faster lair. I feel like I've derailed this thread. What you say might or might not be true, my point was as my first post about it that his comment about the 2 hour practice was a deciding reason why he won (said so himself), might be one of the reasons why people not seing him as a top top player in the same breath as idra etc. If he for some reason showed he could perform with Zerg for example I would have to eat my own words from the IEM thread. MorroW seems like a sound guy irl, I'm just not sure if he is as good as his victory in IEM should have been seen as. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:29 Sqq wrote: again you totally fail to see what I said. The fact that all he needed to do was a few hour practice before his match to get a huge advantage, I'm not sure if you're arguing for the sake of argue or if you're completely dumb. Practicing unit specific micro for a few hours to physically prepare for a match is not equatable with how many hours a day someone practices in general. Which is what you said originally. Which was a dumb thing to say, since Morrow didn't win with some reaper all-in. Anyway, it's useless to keep arguing. You keep glossing over my actual argument and just stating the same provably ridiculous thing over and over. Have fun with that. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:40 waxypants wrote: Sure, so what's the point? Even MorroW said the day after the final this his build was probably OP. Read what I just said... And read my first post. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. Well being one of the worst kids in the special class in Korea doesnt sound any better. Lets not downgrade each other, shall we? | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:07 kojinshugi wrote: Yawn. He practiced microing a single unit that his build depended on. How fucking hard is that to comprehend? How long do you need to practice reaper micro on the previous day before you can use 3 rax reaper? 4 hours? 6 hours? Wait, you can't use 3 rax reaper, because it's an imba strategy vs Zerg. Morrow should have picked a mediocre strategy that would lower his chances of winning. He should have traveled to Korea and practiced for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, because SC2 is not a competitive game where winning matters, but rather a ritualized martial art where going through the motions and living up to esoteric ideals is the only way to gain respect. The reason he isn't universally viewed as a top player is because he plays Terran (and doesn't do the flashy nukeapaloozas of TLO), and Zerg fanboys are disproportionally represented. While I agree on some level, I think the reason I never looked at Morrow as a top-level player is because of his past manner/issues on BW. Hes just a total dick sometimes, in the same vein of Idra. (for what its worth, I dont have idra in my top 5 zerg in the world.. sure, best outside of korea but not near the top in korea for me) My favorite terrans outside of korea/TLO is Lucifron, ive been more impressed with him even tho he has less results.. But I think Brat_OK is the best performing terran outside of korea/TLO. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:43 Sqq wrote: I feel like I've derailed this thread. What you say might or might not be true, my point was as my first post about it that his comment about the 2 hour practice was a deciding reason why he won (said so himself), might be one of the reasons why people not seing him as a top top player in the same breath as idra etc. If he for some reason showed he could perform with Zerg for example I would have to eat my own words from the IEM thread. MorroW seems like a sound guy irl, I'm just not sure if he is as good as his victory in IEM should have been seen as. I would love to see him do well as zerg. Sadly, if he fails it becomes another "ZERG IS UP, TERRAN IS EASY TO PLAY!" thing And if he does well it's a "SEE?! ZERG IS FINE! YOU JUST NEED TO NOT SUCK! TERRAN IS JUST AS HARD!!" thing. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:44 kojinshugi wrote: Practicing unit specific micro for a few hours to physically prepare for a match is not equatable with how many hours a day someone practices in general. Which is what you said originally. Which was a dumb thing to say, since Morrow didn't win with some reaper all-in. Anyway, it's useless to keep arguing. You keep glossing over my actual argument and just stating the same provably ridiculous thing over and over. Have fun with that. No I'm not glossing over anything I just feel you're totally ignoring what I said in the first post about it might be a reason why people universially don't see him as a top top player because of the way he won the final. He was smart, I'm not denying that, I just pointed to it being a reason why the feelings about his skill is so devided. | ||
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waxypants
United States479 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:44 Cheerio wrote: Well being one of the worst kids in the special class in Korea doesnt sound any better. Lets not downgrade each other, shall we? hahahahahaha, awesome | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:31 Seam wrote: Not to be mean, but you're gold. What do you even know of micro practice? Don't worry, I put that on my profile on purpose so people who don't know what argumentation is could impale themselves on their ad hominems. Give one reason why you know that practicing for 2 hours on microing one unit > 12 hours a day microing many units. I don't know any such thing. What I do know is that those things aren't comparable at all. They're not the same fucking thing. Tactical control of a specific unit in a specific situation (early game zerg) is what Morrow practiced for 2 hours (allegedly). Tactical control of multiple units in multiple situations and matchups, along with overall strategy and macromanagement is what Idra practices for 12 hours a day (allegedly). Comparing the two is absolutely ridiculous because they're not comparable. Comparing the two assumes that Morrow doesn't practice the same things that Idra does. | ||
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Zog
57 Posts
As much as I dislike Morrow's standing about Z balance (and I really think he's completely out of the reality when he says Z is ok, people just need to L2P), there is no denying that he is at least better overall than all the other foreign Terran players, since he won the most tournaments. And that in itself is quite a feat. I'm really happy he's trying Zerg, good luck (you'll need some imo). Stop also with BW ratings. Different game is different. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:16 Rawenkeke wrote: So, morrow was 2.7k pts? Highly doubt that, he lost 150-250Max. http://www.sc2ranks.com/team/4342148 He went from 2010 to 1903 | ||
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FREEloss_ca
Canada603 Posts
Also, Morrow, can you give us your opinion on Zerg in a week? Do you feel they're UP? What issues, if any, do you think they possess? If so, what changes do you feel need to happen? Also, idrA fighting~! ^^ Z(._ .z) | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:45 Sqq wrote: No I'm not glossing over anything I just feel you're totally ignoring what I said in the first post about it might be a reason why people universially don't see him as a top top player because of the way he won the final. He was smart, I'm not denying that, I just pointed to it being a reason why the feelings about his skill is so devided. I don't disagree that a good number of people think Morrow's win was "cheap". I just the think the reasoning you presented for that (2 hours vs 12 hours) is absurd. I also think most of those people are self-flagellating Zerg players who have "too much self respect" to play any other race. 3 rax reaper is really strong against zerg. To not use a strong build against zerg because it's "cheap" is silly. | ||
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Foogs
40 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:03 Grimmy wrote: Cool said he only wins 10% of the practice matches against his team mates as Zerg. And this means what? Cool is extremely lucky and played only 10% of the Protoss/Zergs in the tournament? | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:55 kojinshugi wrote: I don't disagree that a good number of people think Morrow's win was "cheap". I just the think the reasoning you presented for that (2 hours vs 12 hours) is absurd. I also think most of those people are self-flagellating Zerg players who have "too much self respect" to play any other race. 3 rax reaper is really strong against zerg. To not use a strong build against zerg because it's "cheap" is silly. My point is that it just goes to show how huge advantage a terran unit can give you. The point was that people might not hold him in high regards because of this fact (check out the IEM thread after Morrows win). I would have used it myself in a heart beat, All I tried to get across was that the win vs IdrA and the fashion might be the reason why he isn't universally seen as the player he probably should be. If you look a few pages back he even says he might be the most underrated player atm, and he might be true. I only wrote it to give him a perspective on why this might be the case | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On September 29 2010 18:30 kojinshugi wrote: Publicly stating that the guy who beat you at a major tournament is the third smartest retard in special ed class isn't bitter? That comment was not directed towards morrow. He used that as an exaggerated analogy to show that he didn't agree with what was said. Besides he wasn't even directly responding to morrow's post, just someone who stated an opinion which he didnt agree with. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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Grimmy
South Africa29 Posts
On September 29 2010 19:00 Foogs wrote: And this means what? Cool is extremely lucky and played only 10% of the Protoss/Zergs in the tournament? That he is ALOT better than the ppl he played against. Against someone equally skilled he only wins 10% of the games. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
Don't understand all the hate in here. | ||
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Loophole
United States867 Posts
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
And all the hate on Terran players is ridiculous. If a Terran wins, it's race imba. Some Terran players are really skilled, it's not fair to clump them ALL as race abusers. This is coming from a Zerg user as well. | ||
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Limak
Poland6 Posts
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
Morrow is a macro player and not a cheese player, and if some of you had seen any of his games aside from IEM you would know that. 5rax reaper isn't really even cheese because you can expand relatively quickly and safely. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On September 29 2010 19:27 papaz wrote: props to Morrow for trying out new stuff with his rating. Don't understand all the hate in here. I don't understand the hate either, it seems that MorroW gets flamed for everything he does. Go MorroW, the Swarm needs players like you! | ||
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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john0507
164 Posts
Zerg ain't weak. It's just somewhat tougher to play, and those 99% of zergs out there that can't play it well continuously whine that Zerg is too weak. Cool can do it , Idra can do it , Check can do it, it's just that you can't simple as that. The last time I checked Idra lost most of his bigger games cos he was to an extent , Predictable. Same goes for IEM , same goes for GSL , the opponent simply knows what Idra's game is and comes up with a strat/build to beat him, and failing to scout a hidden expansion that constantly sent down zealots is just sad. Morrow is probably the best Foreign Terran in SC2 currently , or at least the one with the best mechanics , while i'm sure he'll be a good Zerg if he really goes for it , he might have been the only Foreign Terran that could even compare with the likes of Rainbow and the other Korean Terrans. Imo it's kind of a waste and sad that such a good player goes messing around with other races instead of trying to be the best in the world. | ||
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Ascorius
Norway275 Posts
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Amadi
Finland139 Posts
On September 29 2010 19:30 Loophole wrote: This thread is rediculous. Hopefully with some time Morrow and the rest of the zerg players will figure out the strengths of the Zerg and we can put all these retarded flame wars behind us. >> Implying that the Zerg have strengths. You best me trollin'. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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eNbee
Belgium487 Posts
People offrace on the ladder, it doesn't nessecarily mean anything. Zerg players switching to any race playing at their current ladder ranking would probably get stomped too, just like terran and protoss players would. Still waiting for a zerg switching to T to win a tournament! | ||
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Skamtet
Canada634 Posts
On September 29 2010 19:55 Amadi wrote: Implying you can green text on teamliquid.>> Implying that the Zerg have strengths. You best me trollin'. No, wait that isn't even green text. | ||
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Arakash
Germany124 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:00 guitarizt wrote: Maybe he can teach us to nydus. and neural parasite :D would be too funny if he really would come up with a neural parasite+Nydus push :D | ||
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sadyque
Romania251 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:18 Arakash wrote: and neural parasite :D would be too funny if he really would come up with a neural parasite+Nydus push :D You know what would be more funny? Cool winning GSL and Morrow starting to wtfpwn with zerg. Mb then all zerg players will shut the fuck up about balance. | ||
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Meff
Italy287 Posts
On September 29 2010 19:51 john0507 wrote:Zerg ain't weak. It's just somewhat tougher to play This is pretty a reasonable definition of something being weak: "X is weak if it takes more skill to win using X than it takes to win using Y." You're probably thinking of another way to define "weak", which in turn is not unreasonable. After all, "weak" is a fuzzy concept. Which one is it? | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
He probably will fail as zerg, but people need to stop getting personal about him. It's such a shitty thing to do. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Go Morrow ! | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
interesting to see if it's just a little experimenting or if he'll stick to zerg :< | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. just because sc1 progamer skill level of bar is x100000 higher than anything else in this world at anything doesnt mean sc1 top gamers outside korea shouldnt tap themselves on the shoulders for accomplishing that. i dont wanna bring up old tsl but there were way more top foreigners dodging me than me dodging them, but obviously that never reached out to the public. if u remove korea from sc1 it was still according to me and this is my opinion was just as competitive as the other top games were. its understandable that u see everything as being special class after living in korea playing with those sc1 progamers but in reality ur just skyrocket above and we sc1 foreigners were on the normal class On September 29 2010 17:17 Seam wrote: Actually, I believe his actual quote was 2 hours. Gonna look it up, however. i practiced it a few hours before dimaga game and then about 10 hours before the idra finals which was during the party and very early in the morning. and that straight up for 1 special build is actually alot since i didnt really have to learn anything else about my race because i already knew it, just had to practice that special opening. if u think this is short time for 1 opening then ur on my side thinking sc2 is too easy of a game aswell On September 29 2010 17:34 IdrA wrote: oh i absolutely support it since it'll prove what a joke the game is right now without risking the reputation of one of the 5 remaining competitive zergs. but people mentioning him in the same breath as me nony and ret for sc1 cannot happen, especially on the basis of that ladder. idra u shouldnt even be compared to ret or nony since u were clearly above them aswell, just cause nony won u in whatever doesnt mean alot. but its hilariously how u can group up with them in here just to disclude me from it while we both know and think u were above all foreigners by a significant margin. this just goes to show how hard u really wanna put me down like u always have ever since i entered the scene On September 29 2010 17:48 ilbh wrote: we have to admit it is kind of retarded to switch to another race when you are at the top. he would need a month to be good as zerg and even then he can't be sure if he would be also at the top as zerg. so, I don't think he will keep playing as zerg. he was probably just checking/testing the race. on my way home today from school i just felt it inside me, the spirit to just get home and practice all the damn day. i felt that spark every day playing sc1 and some periods of sc2, then ive just dropped it more and more lately with terran, why? because i dont see much room to improve in my race and i dont have many questions that practicing can answer. when i go home today i have so much to learn with zerg and i realize already how hard it will be, and thats what thrills me to practice. playing 2 hours a day with terran kept me on the top but i dont wanna win without deserving it. i wasnt super happy to win iem because i knew i wouldnt have won it if it was a fair game, i get so happy to lose and learn while winning over and over without learning anything isnt so motivating to practice. thats just who i am and thats why im eager to switch race because im pretty sure blizzard wont make the game any more difficult to play On September 29 2010 19:40 oZii wrote: Agreed that this is a bit out of hand. I'm all for loving your Race but people in here are acting like its the Civil War its not that serious folks. I mean idrA played terran in SC1 and switched to Zerg and he is great player and all zergs swear by his word but really seriously in the end anyone can play whatever they want. To much elitism in here from people that aren't even close to the same level as idrA or morrow. Acting like they are protecting thier precious zerg. TT1 plays Toss most of the time but on his stream he will play Zerg and is pretty good at it. No one is bashing him. Its like Morrow is the Anti-Christ in this thread. Let him get the timings down and larvae management down. I'm sure he will do fine. Remember he pretty much does this for a living. Many people here posting are probably at work flaming him and right now Morrow is probably at home practicing non-stop putting in hours in that most people in this thread just can't do. That alone should tell you that if he does "suck" it won't be for long. actually i go to school like most normal in sweden ppl expect me to be this massgamer but what ive said already in this thread is that 0-2 hours every day has been enough practice to keep me on top of the scene ever since release, which is absolutely ridiculous display of how little esport sc2 actually is. ive spend about 10 times more time playing events such as tournament or clanwars than practicing and it didnt bring me down. and this is what unmotivates me to practice with the terran race so with that way of thought i can arguably say that trying to squeeze in 3-6 hours of practice each day with zerg should compensate for the difficulty of switching race, zerg race in general and the imbalance. ofcourse it will take a while to adapt so i dont see why anyone would use my loss streak as an argument in any decision right now | ||
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Ascorius
Norway275 Posts
I know its not really an option for you MorroW, since sc2 prolly is your main source of income. But could you play a tournie as zerg? You have said yourself the skillcap is pretty low so it shouldnt be a problem, right? You have the aggressive expanding attittude already (which makes you one of the best terrans), so zerg shouldnt be that hard,,, I might be wrong though. You have good mechanics so it would be nice to see you play something that didnt rely on OP units and OP harass. If you started winning as zerg you would become a friggin hero. | ||
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aRRR
Netherlands21 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:18 skronch wrote: lol YES bring it on. this has to be a grudgematch in the making. I'm pretty sure they already had that grudgematch | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:15 aRRR wrote: The real question is, does SC2 has a future with it being too easy? Being a 10 billion company with a reputation, i would say YES. Still 2 expansions to go. And around 189423754618974 patches. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
Swe-power! | ||
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Grimmy
South Africa29 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:59 MorroW wrote: when i go home today i have so much to learn with zerg and i realize already how hard it will be, and thats what thrills me to practice. playing 2 hours a day with terran kept me on the top but i dont wanna win without deserving it. i wasnt super happy to win iem because i knew i wouldnt have won it if it was a fair game, i get so happy to lose and learn while winning over and over without learning anything isnt so motivating to practice. thats just who i am and thats why im eager to switch race because im pretty sure blizzard wont make the game any more difficult to play Wanting to play Zerg because you want to challenge yourself more, I really respect your attitude. Sadly yes at the moment Terran players don't get a lot of recognition for winning because the scales are not balanced. I honestly hope you do well with Zerg, +1 Zerg and -1 Terran in tournaments is a win in my book anyday (Getting a bit tired of watching TvTs :D). | ||
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Hellbike
39 Posts
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Arakash
Germany124 Posts
I wish this thread gets locked, too much hate here, even the pro-gamers ... | ||
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Heimlich
United States20 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:15 aRRR wrote: The real question is, does SC2 has a future with it being too easy? YES, here is the real question people. this is the exact question ive been walking around with in my pocket after 5 days of beta. this is the exact thing i want to figure out by testing out zerg, is it harder or is sc2 in general just too easy this topic is what i value far beyond any balance, who is better than who, is the game fun to watch discussions | ||
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baller
527 Posts
invite morrow and idra to play vs each other at a LAN Bo5 finals for a lot of money. maybe ESL should do it? they could make an event out of it, maybe even invite a lot of other players. maybe they could expand it to 16 players instead of 2 then more ppl would go watch. and they could have qualifiers for the players and some invites too. maybe have it in germany since thats where ESL has a big presence... not berlin though maybe cologne? and fly the players there and have them play on a big stage. itd be awesome if we had something like that to decide whos better | ||
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Dreamscythe
Finland273 Posts
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Amadi
Finland139 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:36 Hellbike wrote: IdrA is such a bully, Morrow already said IdrA is better player than him, but he just keep pushing. As a zerg player, I can understand. He probably got paired with someone slightly below himself in skill level and lost after seeing the opponent do a dozen mistakes, quality of which would mean autoloss if the opponent was playing Zerg. On September 29 2010 20:28 sadyque wrote: You know what would be more funny? Cool winning GSL and Morrow starting to wtfpwn with zerg. Mb then all zerg players will shut the fuck up about balance. They still won't, as Zerg will still be exceedingly unbalanced at lower levels of play where players do not have 850 APS. APS standing for actions per second. Where that "lower levels of play" encompasses some 99.99% of the total population of sc2. | ||
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MRMultiBryn
Sweden78 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:44 baller wrote: i think there is only 1 way to settle this... invite morrow and idra to play vs each other at a LAN Bo5 finals for a lot of money. maybe ESL should do it? they could make an event out of it, maybe even invite a lot of other players. maybe they could expand it to 16 players instead of 2 then more ppl would go watch. and they could have qualifiers for the players and some invites too. maybe have it in germany since thats where ESL has a big presence... not berlin though maybe cologne? and fly the players there and have them play on a big stage. itd be awesome if we had something like that to decide whos better I see what you did right there. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
but just because idra is better doesnt mean he should win everything, or play perfect for that matter. if u see him lose or if he see himself lose shouldnt go right to the imbalance discussion because even flash and jaedong makes for upsets why do ppl want a grudge match, idra has a grudge against most ppl and i dont have any grudge against him rep pack inc!  of day 1 (yesterday) | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
I´m really becoming #1 fan of yours ... | ||
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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fevax
Turkey143 Posts
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Hellbike
39 Posts
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Queldur
France26 Posts
+ What the fuck all his game in Zerg take less than 10minutes | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:56 Weavel wrote: Comon morrow post replaypack already! yesterdays games some terran games all replays didnt get included in here so sry bout that [url blocked] (dont expect good games at all lol) On September 29 2010 21:59 Queldur wrote: Why morrow build a 16 Hatch and no pool in ZvZ ? + What the fuck all his game in Zerg take less than 10minutes cause i have to learn the mu from scratch? like day9 days, the best losses r to get completely demolished and say "well obviously i need earlier pool!". this is my method aswell :D | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Queldur
France26 Posts
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imperator-xy
Germany1366 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
So I think a game can be fun being easy, if it still takes skill ... Even poker in theory requires luck, but the same good players play against thousands and thousands and ends up in top32, just like gsl and other tourneys ... | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:47 Amadi wrote: As a zerg player, I can understand. He probably got paired with someone slightly below himself in skill level and lost after seeing the opponent do a dozen mistakes, quality of which would mean autoloss if the opponent was playing Zerg. They still won't, as Zerg will still be exceedingly unbalanced at lower levels of play where players do not have 850 APS. APS standing for actions per second. Where that "lower levels of play" encompasses some 99.99% of the total population of sc2. lmfao 850 APS? i think you mean APM | ||
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JrK
United States283 Posts
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Gont
Germany239 Posts
looking forward to watch u in some tournaments | ||
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Hellbike
39 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:03 noD wrote: Even poker in theory requires luck, but the same good players play against thousands and thousands and ends up in top32, just like gsl and other tourneys ... This is crazy people talk, sc2 is more luck based than poker in long run. On September 29 2010 22:01 Koshi wrote: I am starting to respect Terran/Morrow more due this thread and Idra less. I think we should think about closing. It just seems that Idra would like to have Morrow's balls hanging over fireplace. | ||
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
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awha
Denmark1358 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:01 Koshi wrote: I am starting to respect Terran/Morrow more due this thread and Idra less. I think we should think about closing. Im starting to change like you aswell. It will be interesting to see if other top (terran) players share the view of MorroW and what will become of it. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Like many Zerg out there I was pissed at you after IEM finals. But after this topic I am now neutral and if you do stick to Zerg and keep practicing and play tournaments as Zerg I am going to be your No1 fan (currently Sen is the one I love most of all Zerg). | ||
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:44 MorroW wrote: YES, here is the real question people. this is the exact question ive been walking around with in my pocket after 5 days of beta. this is the exact thing i want to figure out by testing out zerg, is it harder or is sc2 in general just too easy this topic is what i value far beyond any balance, who is better than who, is the game fun to watch discussions I guess you guys never played warcraft 3. The game has alot of the mechanics sc2 has, but no one said it was too easy. Your army was alot smaller and to kill things you had to surround them, it was really micro intensive. IMO warcraft 3 was easier on the players but there was a clear gap between good and bad players. So sc2 is a game with a future, but your comparing it with BW and not the other RTS played out there. (which puts a big burden on sc2) | ||
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Arakash
Germany124 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:01 Koshi wrote: I am starting to respect Terran/Morrow more due this thread and Idra less. I think we should think about closing. /signed. Nothing to add here :X | ||
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Tonyoh
France218 Posts
Best of luck... | ||
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aRRR
Netherlands21 Posts
I guess you guys never played warcraft 3. The game has alot of the mechanics sc2 has, but no one said it was too easy. Your army was alot smaller and to kill things you had to surround them, it was really micro intensive. IMO warcraft 3 was easier on the players but there was a clear gap between good and bad players. So sc2 is a game with a future, but your comparing it with BW and not the other RTS played out there. (which puts a big burden on sc2) SC2 is no where near as micro intensive as WC3, so you can't compare those two. Plus I personally would not like SC2 to be at a similar level of that of WC3. Be that gameplay wise or the competitive scene wise. | ||
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Abdiel
52 Posts
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sirius89
Germany45 Posts
Those are some insane skills. Looking forward for some Zerg replays. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:42 sirius89 wrote: OMG MorroW your sig is hilarious. :D Those are some insane skills. Looking forward for some Zerg replays. he already posted 1 page ago =x Edit: 2 pages now ... | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
and i really admire his way of training. oh i sent an overlord the wrong way. against S class terran it will die. time to improve on it - quit the game - lose ladder points - find new game to fix the mistake immediately. sure some haters will laugh at you dropping points this way but i'm sure you will gain many more fans as well. | ||
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OFCORPSE
Sweden355 Posts
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JeepAss
Poland39 Posts
[B] Looking forward for some Zerg replays. there they are : "yesterdays games some terran games all replays didnt get included in here so sry bout that [url blocked] (dont expect good games at all lol)" | ||
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OFCORPSE
Sweden355 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:01 MorroW wrote: yesterdays games some terran games all replays didnt get included in here so sry bout that [url blocked] (dont expect good games at all lol) cause i have to learn the mu from scratch? like day9 days, the best losses r to get completely demolished and say "well obviously i need earlier pool!". this is my method aswell :D Can you upload it somewhere else? It doesn't seem to work at megaupload. edit: nevermind, works now. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:01 MorroW wrote: yesterdays games some terran games all replays didnt get included in here so sry bout that [url blocked] (dont expect good games at all lol) cause i have to learn the mu from scratch? like day9 days, the best losses r to get completely demolished and say "well obviously i need earlier pool!". this is my method aswell :D Wow I really Appreciate you sharing this. So very helpful and great for us wanting to learn zerg to see how a pro goes about it. If you post more of these as you play not only would it be awesome but wow that would make an awesome daily or daily series. Day9 tracking the rising of the zerg star MorroW. | ||
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guldurkhand
Netherlands71 Posts
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sirius89
Germany45 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:45 noD wrote: he already posted 1 page ago =x Edit: 2 pages now ... Oh thx.didn't read every page. ^^ This could be the first time where i facepalm while a pro is playing.Not meant as an insult. ^^ | ||
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
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uppTagg
Sweden473 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
callmehG 1791 diamond player (540-463) pretty happy. now i just need to win vs a zerg ^^ | ||
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Ashok
Australia339 Posts
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
Respect  | ||
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Bona Fide
United States70 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:06 MorroW wrote: well now i won first game game vs terran :D (long game finishing with about 20 infestors dropping 100+ infested terrans on his last defense because he refused to exit) callmehG 1791 diamond player (540-463) pretty happy. now i just need to win vs a zerg ^^ why does that name sound familiar | ||
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wololo
Sweden10 Posts
It would be super awesome if you'd go Zerg in the next Zotac/Viking/Go4sc2 cup! =) EDIT: CallmehG is a good player that has competed in many cups, thats why you recognized his name. | ||
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XiVol
Wales74 Posts
One question though, why did he wait until 0:08 to make his first SCV? 41 minute game, sounds like an epic game especially with CallmehG making Thors! | ||
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
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Cadence
China33 Posts
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Queldur
France26 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:06 MorroW wrote: well now i won first game game vs terran :D (long game finishing with about 20 infestors dropping 100+ infested terrans on his last defense because he refused to exit) callmehG 1791 diamond player (540-463) pretty happy. now i just need to win vs a zerg ^^ Good CallmeHg is top 10's french player ! fuck yea he use all of Scv to push ! I requiere Moar Replay of mass infested terrans !! | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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SyyRaaaN
Sweden136 Posts
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Ozu
Sweden66 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On September 29 2010 21:47 Amadi wrote: As a zerg player, I can understand. He probably got paired with someone slightly below himself in skill level and lost after seeing the opponent do a dozen mistakes, quality of which would mean autoloss if the opponent was playing Zerg. They still won't, as Zerg will still be exceedingly unbalanced at lower levels of play where players do not have 850 APS. APS standing for actions per second. Where that "lower levels of play" encompasses some 99.99% of the total population of sc2. Uhm what? Idra played horrible in the iem final. In general he is the superior player, but don't act like he never make mistakes himself. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:59 MorroW wrote: just because sc1 progamer skill level of bar is x100000 higher than anything else in this world at anything doesnt mean sc1 top gamers outside korea shouldnt tap themselves on the shoulders for accomplishing that. i dont wanna bring up old tsl but there were way more top foreigners dodging me than me dodging them, but obviously that never reached out to the public. if u remove korea from sc1 it was still according to me and this is my opinion was just as competitive as the other top games were. its understandable that u see everything as being special class after living in korea playing with those sc1 progamers but in reality ur just skyrocket above and we sc1 foreigners were on the normal class i practiced it a few hours before dimaga game and then about 10 hours before the idra finals which was during the party and very early in the morning. and that straight up for 1 special build is actually alot since i didnt really have to learn anything else about my race because i already knew it, just had to practice that special opening. if u think this is short time for 1 opening then ur on my side thinking sc2 is too easy of a game aswell idra u shouldnt even be compared to ret or nony since u were clearly above them aswell, just cause nony won u in whatever doesnt mean alot. but its hilariously how u can group up with them in here just to disclude me from it while we both know and think u were above all foreigners by a significant margin. this just goes to show how hard u really wanna put me down like u always have ever since i entered the scene on my way home today from school i just felt it inside me, the spirit to just get home and practice all the damn day. i felt that spark every day playing sc1 and some periods of sc2, then ive just dropped it more and more lately with terran, why? because i dont see much room to improve in my race and i dont have many questions that practicing can answer. when i go home today i have so much to learn with zerg and i realize already how hard it will be, and thats what thrills me to practice. playing 2 hours a day with terran kept me on the top but i dont wanna win without deserving it. i wasnt super happy to win iem because i knew i wouldnt have won it if it was a fair game, i get so happy to lose and learn while winning over and over without learning anything isnt so motivating to practice. thats just who i am and thats why im eager to switch race because im pretty sure blizzard wont make the game any more difficult to play actually i go to school like most normal in sweden ppl expect me to be this massgamer but what ive said already in this thread is that 0-2 hours every day has been enough practice to keep me on top of the scene ever since release, which is absolutely ridiculous display of how little esport sc2 actually is. ive spend about 10 times more time playing events such as tournament or clanwars than practicing and it didnt bring me down. and this is what unmotivates me to practice with the terran race so with that way of thought i can arguably say that trying to squeeze in 3-6 hours of practice each day with zerg should compensate for the difficulty of switching race, zerg race in general and the imbalance. ofcourse it will take a while to adapt so i dont see why anyone would use my loss streak as an argument in any decision right now My respect for you has gone up a LOT after this post. | ||
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
On the other hand, people can play whatever race they want to for whatever reason. It's like playing a certain race means a big deal. If Zerg ever becomes imba are all Zergs going to stay noble and switch to other races to stick it to the man? Nah, you'll stick with that race because it's what you know and everyone likes to win. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
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parkin
1080 Posts
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:38 dcberkeley wrote: I don't get it, if SC2 is so easy, why not stick with Terran go to Korea and cash in on that 85,000 cheque? Why bother switching to Zerg to find out if it's easy? Why not dedicate more than 0-2 hours to the game and actually have a career if you're so confident you can be at the top. Because money should not be the reason why you play a game. It's a reaction. To me this seems like an obvious choice for MorroW if he doesn't really enjoy terran as much as he did in BW. The reason I play BW is the kick of adrenaline I get everytime. I have a feeling this goes for MorroW aswell. - If you don't get that kick, then it's not really worth the effort. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:38 dcberkeley wrote: I don't get it, if SC2 is so easy, why not stick with Terran go to Korea and cash in on that 85,000 cheque? Why bother switching to Zerg to find out if it's easy? Why not dedicate more than 0-2 hours to the game and actually have a career if you're so confident you can be at the top. I doubt that he can just fly to SK for a month when he has to attend school. Might be a reason. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:38 dcberkeley wrote: I don't get it, if SC2 is so easy, why not stick with Terran go to Korea and cash in on that 85,000 cheque? Why bother switching to Zerg to find out if it's easy? Why not dedicate more than 0-2 hours to the game and actually have a career if you're so confident you can be at the top. On the other hand, people can play whatever race they want to for whatever reason. It's like playing a certain race means a big deal. If Zerg ever becomes imba are all Zergs going to stay noble and switch to other races to stick it to the man? Nah, you'll stick with that race because it's what you know and everyone likes to win. 1) All people don't play games just to win money. 2) Not everyone wants to have a full time career playing a game. 3) He's said he's a student, so presumably he have other interests as well and probably haven't got time to practice much more than he is currently doing (if he actually wants to graduate) | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
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YourMom
Romania565 Posts
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:59 MorroW wrote: idra u shouldnt even be compared to ret or nony since u were clearly above them aswell, just cause nony won u in whatever doesnt mean alot. but its hilariously how u can group up with them in here just to disclude me from it while we both know and think u were above all foreigners by a significant margin. this just goes to show how hard u really wanna put me down like u always have ever since i entered the scene I actually remember Idra giving you credits for being one of the better BW foreigners and a great SC2 player in an interview at IEM. He said he was suprised you were the 17th player as you should have been seeded in from the start. Something like that. Anyways, with all the SC2 pro's switching race, or threatening to switch race, it's good to see someone moving towards it. I'm looking forward to a replay pack once you feel you've mastered the race. | ||
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7even.Rantech
Chile39 Posts
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
In a game with three races there is bound to be power fluctuations even if one of the races really is a bit UP. | ||
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Competent
United States406 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:09 IdrA wrote: roflwhat he cheated his way to that ladder score. it was technically within the rules but it was certainly not legit. he was nothing at bw. saying you were the third best sc1 terran outside of korea, which is arguable in itself, is like saying you're the third smartest kid in the special class. I think I personnaly enjoy the fact that you dropped 18 % win rate now that you are on the KR ladder. Proves how people shouldn't take someone like you seriously when there are real zerg's out there on real teams like oGs and Prime. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:55 YourMom wrote: MorroW said he had over 50% w/r ratio when he tried toss. I bet he tried some 4 gates action. hehe. nono i just play macro games now in practice, once i learn the basics ill get to the funk :d madfrog giving me some serious zvz headsup right here so that should boost my improvement :D | ||
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Nobu
Spain550 Posts
The morrow hate is amazing and a bit understandable, the reaper rush made him the real anti-zerg!. P.S: IdrA+Morrow both in the same thread = LOL. | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:32 nihlon wrote: Uhm what? Idra played horrible in the iem final. In general he is the superior player, but don't act like he never make mistakes himself. Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy. Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win. At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe. | ||
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Latham
9562 Posts
Lastly, please stay terran. I need a reason to keep hating you. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:08 Latham wrote: Morrow, so your motivation is "testing yourself" and "pushing yourself further" for playing Zerg. Does that mean that you don't find playing Toss hard, or does it just not fit your style(?). I don't particularly follow your career since I labelled you as terran, but have you considered toss, or just went straight to zerg? Lastly, please stay terran. I need a reason to keep hating you. He already stated he finds both Toss and Terran easy to play and he was taking games off top Terrans as Toss without even knowing the hotkeys. | ||
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aogmxctm
64 Posts
Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy. Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win. At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe. machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them? | ||
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OFCORPSE
Sweden355 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:04 DarkShell wrote: Idra played horrible in the final? You kidding me? All Morrow did was mass reapers. He even said it himself "I wouldn't have won if it was a FAIR FIGHT.", you should pay more attention without being a fanboy. Personally, I played Terren up until I watched that series just because it was easier. Then I saw Morrow do nothing but reapers and was completely disgusted with the race and how easy someone who is, obviously, worse than the other player could open with a lame bo and win. At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe. It's not like there were money on the line or anything. Why wouldn't you use your best chance of winning, even if it's an unfair advantage? it's "almost" a sport, of course you do whatever you can to win. I played Z in the beta, but I had such a bad laptop at that point and I found Z to be extremely difficult to play with 1-5 FPS, 0.1 FPS during fights when it counted. So I switched to T and still managed to get into Diamond league in every bracket, enough said? T is easy, no question about it, I didn't even manage to Stim during some fights yet I came out on top. Keep practicing MorroW, I'd love to see you stomp som T butts in a few weeks. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Hopefully you won't. | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:11 aogmxctm wrote: machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them? I'd say the difference is a failed 6 pool puts you behind a ton while a failed reaper rush still leaves you in a relatively good position. | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:11 aogmxctm wrote: machine 6 pooled vs huk cool 6 pooled in GSL yesterday do you hate them? Honestly, I haven't followed the GSL much, so didn't know about Cool. When I saw Machine 6 pool HuK, though, yeah I lost a lot of respect for him. I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win. Even then, though, Machine only 6 pooled HuK one game. MorroW went reapers every game (excluding the last). Huge difference. Like I said, he may gain some respect from me if he plays zerg and he plays well. If I see a 6 pool, even though he's zerg, it's still the same. | ||
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SCnai
322 Posts
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kataa
United Kingdom384 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:04 DarkShell wrote:. At this point in time Morrow is my least like progamer because of that series. Maybe, just maybe he can salvage any respect from me at all if he plays zerg and does well. Huge maybe. It's generally agreed upon Idra messed up the blistering sands game, he was macroing uncharacteristically bad, and MorroW was doing surprisingly well as the game progressed, I don't really see how you can say reaper abuse was the biggest factor in the IEM in general, as some very good terrans, who are much more one-base abusers like DeMuslim still lost to Idra and Dimaga. Hating someone for playing their race well is just nonsense. MorroW played Terran to it's logical conclusion with the way the game was balanced at that point. The whole idea that we as players or spectators are entitled to see people play a certain way just reeks of arrogance. It's like when people play Poker and say "I'd be a great player, if only my raises were respected". If you're watching a commonly used strategy and remarking to yourself about how much you hate watching it, there's a point where you're actually beginning to hate the game, rather than the playstyle, and given the current evolution of strategy in SC2 so far, I'm thinking we're going to see a Frozen Throne style rebalance with HoTS. | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:22 kataa wrote: It's generally agreed upon Idra messed up the blistering sands game, he was macroing uncharacteristically bad, and MorroW was doing surprisingly well as the game progressed, I don't really see how you can say reaper abuse was the biggest factor in the IEM in general, as some very good terrans, who are much more one-base abusers like DeMuslim still lost to Idra and Dimaga. Hating someone for playing their race well is just nonsense. MorroW played Terran to it's logical conclusion with the way the game was balanced at that point. The whole idea that we as players or spectators are entitled to see people play a certain way just reeks of arrogance. It's like when people play Poker and say "I'd be a great player, if only my raises were respected". If you're watching a commonly used strategy and remarking to yourself about how much you hate watching it, there's a point where you're actually beginning to hate the game, rather than the playstyle, and given the current evolution of strategy in SC2 so far, I'm thinking we're going to see a Frozen Throne style rebalance with HoTS. Here's where you're wrong. I respect players who play well, even if they get utterly destroyed. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, it's how you play. If you cheese your way to victory, do you really deserve that win? If you play a 40 minute macro game against a better player and still lose, you have complete respect from me that you lasted that long and made a great game of it. I can somewhat understand cheesing one game out of a series to get ahead when you're down. Ok, you needed that game to stay alive. But going 5 rax reapers every single match in a series vs zerg is not worth the effort to look at the screen to watch. I'm just one person and it's just my opinion, but it is what it is. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
Surprise surprise, Europeans love Morrow because of rose colored lenses. On September 29 2010 15:23 mierin wrote: No, he really isn't. He's one of the "good guys" who taunt zerg with saying "oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament". But of course, he can't. ENOUGH SAID But yeah there's no nationalism bias at all in this thread. | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
Could someone re-upload it? | ||
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:20 DarkShell wrote: Honestly, I haven't followed the GSL much, so didn't know about Cool. When I saw Machine 6 pool HuK, though, yeah I lost a lot of respect for him. I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win. Even then, though, Machine only 6 pooled HuK one game. MorroW went reapers every game (excluding the last). Huge difference. Like I said, he may gain some respect from me if he plays zerg and he plays well. If I see a 6 pool, even though he's zerg, it's still the same. well 6pool is an allin cheese build. 5rax reaper was fully straight up and solid build in that patch, it was really imbalanced in every way. u need to learn to split difference with cheese and imbalanced build that cant be stopped without patching the game. On September 30 2010 00:39 Weavel wrote: When did morrow say ''oh, if I played your race I'd win any tournament''? That's right. He didn't. Stop putting words into peoples mouth... tnx for that. its true i never did say that, altought i have said i think more zergs would be more succesful if they spent less time whining and being negative saying to themselves "this is impossible" and rather get more of an attitude like ret or madfrog who can see flaws in their play and work on it despite it being imbalanced. altough i see a huge amount of toss users and terran users who just whine have this bad attitude towards the game aswell | ||
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Blondinbengt
Sweden578 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:33 KissBlade wrote: Let me get this straight, Idra actually delivers some facts in this thread and people bashes him because he just has an ego blah blah blah etc. Yet Morrow seems to just straight up brags and people give him respect for it? That is such nonsense. Surprise surprise, Europeans love Morrow because of rose colored lenses. ENOUGH SAID Would you mind actually providing some examples of what you are talking about? Also, reading the thread helps, MorroW has been humble to the extreme in his responses here and unlike you who just says something without providing an actual example of what your talking about, I'm going to give you a quote from one of MorroW's responses: if u remove korea from sc1 it was still according to me and this is my opinion was just as competitive as the other top games were. its understandable that u see everything as being special class after living in korea playing with those sc1 progamers but in reality ur just skyrocket above and we sc1 foreigners were on the normal class Honestly, what more do you want from the guy? | ||
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kataa
United Kingdom384 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:31 DarkShell wrote: I can somewhat understand cheesing one game out of a series to get ahead when you're down. Ok, you needed that game to stay alive. But going 5 rax reapers every single match in a series vs zerg is not worth the effort to look at the screen to watch. I'm just one person and it's just my opinion, but it is what it is. I completely agree, 5 rax Reaper every game is insane. The whole point of my post, was that it's a logical conclusion of the design of the game, not the character of it's players. 5 rax reaper didn't become popular because all Terrans are horrible people who just want to win whatever the cost, and zergs are all saints who only care only about entertaining spectators. Competitive players play to win, and they'll use the best tools to achieve that. If you hate seeing 5 Rax reaper every game, blame Blizzard for faulity game design not MorroW or LzGamer. | ||
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kkkk
Sweden1 Post
Good luck MorroW, i hope to see you kick ass in the upcoming events. User was banned for this post. | ||
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:20 DarkShell wrote: I have a really big bias against lame play, though. I'm a firm believer that if you have to do something completely lame to win, you don't deserve the win. Three things. 1) Nobody said you 6 pool only when you have to do so to win. Cheese can also be a strong mindgame, or a way to punish predictable greedy openings. It can be a great way to open series, as in the July vs. Best OSL final. Maybe there are lots of ways you can win. But why should you limit your selection? You choose from every option you have, even if DarkShell doesn't enjoy watching some of them as much. 2) To reiterate: This is about winning, not about abiding by some unwritten rules of honorable builds. Whining about cheese is like playing nr20 games, or whining about throws in a fighting game. Get over it. If I can beat you by doing nothing but throws, either the game is bad, or you need to learn how to respond. You might not enjoy watching matches that are pure throws, or pure turtling, or whatever. But that only has anything to do with respect if the goal is fun matches, and it's not. It's winning. 3) If the game is balanced, the better player should be able to beat predictable cheese most of the time. Sometimes it's just bad luck, and there's nothing you can do about that except realize that it happens to everybody (with every build) and move on. But if you systematically can't respond, then either the game is bad, or you need a new strategy. The better a build gets, the more lame it gets, because the whole point of a good build is to give you an advantage at a minimal cost. The better you get at that trade--the better the payoff and the lower the cost--the more lame it's gonna look. If you don't like it, go play something noncompetitive, where people aren't trying to give themselves every advantage they can. Or wait two years until sc2 is balanced, then come back and see that most of the super lame stuff has gotten riskier. Then its use will be less automatic and more strategic. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Agree with above, mind games ftw :D | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:56 Pyrthas wrote: Three things. 1) Nobody said you 6 pool only when you have to do so to win. Cheese can also be a strong mindgame, or a way to punish predictable greedy openings. It can be a great way to open series, as in the July vs. Best OSL final. Maybe there are lots of ways you can win. But why should you limit your selection? You choose from every option you have, even if DarkShell doesn't enjoy watching some of them as much. 2) To reiterate: This is about winning, not about abiding by some unwritten rules of honorable builds. Whining about cheese is like playing nr20 games, or whining about throws in a fighting game. Get over it. If I can beat you by doing nothing but throws, either the game is bad, or you need to learn how to respond. You might not enjoy watching matches that are pure throws, or pure turtling, or whatever. But that only has anything to do with respect if the goal is fun matches, and it's not. It's winning. 3) If the game is balanced, the better player should be able to beat predictable cheese most of the time. Sometimes it's just bad luck, and there's nothing you can do about that except realize that it happens to everybody (with every build) and move on. But if you systematically can't respond, then either the game is bad, or you need a new strategy. The better a build gets, the more lame it gets, because the whole point of a good build is to give you an advantage at a minimal cost. The better you get at that trade--the better the payoff and the lower the cost--the more lame it's gonna look. If you don't like it, go play something noncompetitive, where people aren't trying to give themselves every advantage they can. Or wait two years until sc2 is balanced, then come back and see that most of the super lame stuff has gotten riskier. Then its use will be less automatic and more strategic. In response to your 3 things, I have 1 thing. This is my opinion. This isn't something I believe the whole SC2 community should base their thoughts on. I, myself, dislike people who play like that. Even if it's for a good reason. I can, honestly, say if I was in MorroW's position I would've rather taken 2nd place and played a good game rather than sit on 5 rax reapers the entire game and exploit how Blizzard built my race against zerg. Me, myself, not everyone else. That's how I feel. My views on a player are based on HOW they play, not if they win. Your arguing that because I feel that way they shouldn't do it is ridiculous. If they want to be that way, it's their choice, and it's my choice to dislike them for it. End of my discussion. | ||
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ppshchik
United States862 Posts
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Hasire
United States125 Posts
Anyways MorroW, I really hope you can find some Zerg hope. I switched from T to Z because of the original TvT match-up [and having to play it every game] and would love to see if you could find SOMETHING Zerg can do with the early game. Its really discouraging watching zerg after zerg lose tourny games while Blizzard ignores it and works on 2v2. I feel if we could just make it out of the early stage of the game, TvZ would be a great matchup. On the other hand, Protoss lategame is so scary right now I don't see anything that can be done right now after a point. | ||
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Gont
Germany239 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:05 DarkShell wrote: In response to your 3 things, I have 1 thing. This is my opinion. This isn't something I believe the whole SC2 community should base their thoughts on. I, myself, dislike people who play like that. Even if it's for a good reason. I can, honestly, say if I was in MorroW's position I would've rather taken 2nd place and played a good game rather than sit on 5 rax reapers the entire game and exploit how Blizzard built my race against zerg. Me, myself, not everyone else. That's how I feel. My views on a player are based on HOW they play, not if they win. Your arguing that because I feel that way they shouldn't do it is ridiculous. If they want to be that way, it's their choice, and it's my choice to dislike them for it. End of my discussion. I seriously doubt that u will make the same decision when there are 3.000$ (i guess it was 5k for #1 and 2k for #2; not sure though) on the line I mean i totally agree that it sucks to see this in a final game but $$$>all and i would do the same thing... | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:51 kataa wrote: I completely agree, 5 rax Reaper every game is insane. The whole point of my post, was that it's a logical conclusion of the design of the game, not the character of it's players. 5 rax reaper didn't become popular because all Terrans are horrible people who just want to win whatever the cost, and zergs are all saints who only care only about entertaining spectators. Competitive players play to win, and they'll use the best tools to achieve that. If you hate seeing 5 Rax reaper every game, blame Blizzard for faulity game design not MorroW or LzGamer. 5Rax reaper before the patch was a super strong build that was actually a fast expansion, not an all-in. I still don't understand why people say it's an allin? It was an extremely safe and fast expansion with 100% scouting information and no counters, with an extremely high chance of winning outright and even if you got defended perfectly you still wouldn't get behind. Why wouldn't you do it if you could pull it off? Cheering for you MorroW, you're my favorite SC2 player and I have really liked your attitude and the way you win. It's always so sincere and you do what you need to do. EDIT: I assume people think it's an allin because Day9 said so in his cast, but Day9 isn't a SC2 god and he was wrong there, it's not allin at all. I was so annoyed at the commentating like "desperate to end it early" and "allin style of play" when it's nothing like that. | ||
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Ashera
Canada202 Posts
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yowza
Finland210 Posts
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
Yes, I'm very closed minded. You should also probably learn to read. I tried to force my opinion into the topic by stating that it was mine and mine alone and that I'm not putting it here hoping other people will hop on with it. Flame? Hardly. Troll? Not even close. Your logic is so amazing I feel I should give you a cookie. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:21 DarkShell wrote: Yeah, I'm closed minded. So closed minded that I like seing more than massing one harass unit. So closed minded that after seeing this build done over and over in a series I switched the race it was used against because it required more than building multiple rax and making 1 type of unit to win the game early. Yes, I'm very closed minded. You should also probably learn to read. I tried to force my opinion into the topic by stating that it was mine and mine alone and that I'm not putting it here hoping other people will hop on with it. Flame? Hardly. Troll? Not even close. Your logic is so amazing I feel I should give you a cookie. It was a fast expansion. Not an allin. Wonder when people will learn. | ||
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Garaman
United States556 Posts
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SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:05 DarkShell wrote: In response to your 3 things, I have 1 thing. This is my opinion. This isn't something I believe the whole SC2 community should base their thoughts on. I, myself, dislike people who play like that. Even if it's for a good reason. I can, honestly, say if I was in MorroW's position I would've rather taken 2nd place and played a good game rather than sit on 5 rax reapers the entire game and exploit how Blizzard built my race against zerg. Me, myself, not everyone else. That's how I feel. My views on a player are based on HOW they play, not if they win. Your arguing that because I feel that way they shouldn't do it is ridiculous. If they want to be that way, it's their choice, and it's my choice to dislike them for it. End of my discussion. Even the opponent you did not cheese and lose 1st place to, would respect you way less if he knew that. People play in tournaments seriously, and if you go there and not give it 100%, it'll just be offensive to your opponents and everyone watching. You will not be taking the tournament seriously. | ||
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:05 DarkShell wrote: In response to your 3 things, I have 1 thing. This is my opinion. This isn't something I believe the whole SC2 community should base their thoughts on. I, myself, dislike people who play like that. Even if it's for a good reason. I can, honestly, say if I was in MorroW's position I would've rather taken 2nd place and played a good game rather than sit on 5 rax reapers the entire game and exploit how Blizzard built my race against zerg. Me, myself, not everyone else. That's how I feel. My views on a player are based on HOW they play, not if they win. Your arguing that because I feel that way they shouldn't do it is ridiculous. If they want to be that way, it's their choice, and it's my choice to dislike them for it. End of my discussion. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Everybody is. But that doesn't mean opinions are never open to criticism. We can ask for reasons to back opinions up, because through the ensuing discussion we can develop a better understanding of the issues. In this case, I responded because I don't think there's a good reason for disliking or losing respect for people (real people!) because they compete in a way that you don't like. To me, that sounds like disliking people for playing styles of music that I don't like, or painting in styles I don't like, or playing tennis in ways I don't like. (It's only serve and volley for me. I have no respect for baseliners! And I dislike you, not just as a painter, but as a person, unless your work is representational.) I might be wrong, of course. There might be an important distinction here that I'm missing. That's the point of discussion! But I guess this one's over. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:21 DarkShell wrote: Yeah, I'm closed minded. So closed minded that I like seing more than massing one harass unit. So closed minded that after seeing this build done over and over in a series I switched the race it was used against because it required more than building multiple rax and making 1 type of unit to win the game early. Yes, I'm very closed minded. You should also probably learn to read. I tried to force my opinion into the topic by stating that it was mine and mine alone and that I'm not putting it here hoping other people will hop on with it. Flame? Hardly. Troll? Not even close. Your logic is so amazing I feel I should give you a cookie. You are aware that 5 Hatch Hydra was one of the most popular ZvP builds in Brood War, right? That was generally 99% Hydra. You should probably spend less time posting and more time looking at how discussions turn out on this forum. If you're going to get all pissy because someone argues with you it may be a good idea to just request a perma-ban to avoid future warnings/bans by the mods. I'm sure they would appreciate it if you learned the rules before posting as well. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:25 Garaman wrote: maybe he is playing a different race for fun. you ppl are looking way too much into it. Maybe you should read the thread. BTW DarkShell, if you don't want people to discuss your opinion, don't post it. Keep it to yourself. You can't just post a ridiculous opinion and then gain diplomatic immunity with something like "It's just my opinion!". If you don't want people to discuss it, don't tell them about it. | ||
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Brusko651
34 Posts
The replay pack is pretty motivating. It's good to see that pro players also struggle in the beginning. It's also cool to see that Morrow is copying Idra's hotkey setup (dunno if it's intentional or not). Maybe I'll go back to that setup as well :=] Pls keep releasing replay packs when you're better! | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:24 Shikyo wrote: It was a fast expansion. Not an allin. Wonder when people will learn. Where the hell are you in this discussion? When did anyone say it was an all in? If it was an all in, it wouldn't be so bad because you could lose with it if you didn't do well. The biggest reason it was unbalanced is it harasses a lot more than zerg could ever do and at the same time sets you up for an expand and transition while completely crippling the zerg. When will you learn that you need to learn to read to browse a forum? | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:27 Amber[LighT] wrote: You are aware that 5 Hatch Hydra was one of the most popular ZvP builds in Brood War, right? That was generally 99% Hydra. You should probably spend less time posting and more time looking at how discussions turn out on this forum. If you're going to get all pissy because someone argues with you it may be a good idea to just request a perma-ban to avoid future warnings/bans by the mods. I'm sure they would appreciate it if you learned the rules before posting as well. You are aware that 5 hatch hydra is in no way relative to 5 rax reaper? Reapers come out extremely quick. The one unit composition isn't the point. Also, who said I'm pissy? So many people who need to learn to read before they respond. | ||
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jdobrev
Bulgaria162 Posts
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zemiron
United States481 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:05 DarkShell wrote: In response to your 3 things, I have 1 thing. This is my opinion. This isn't something I believe the whole SC2 community should base their thoughts on. I, myself, dislike people who play like that. Even if it's for a good reason. I can, honestly, say if I was in MorroW's position I would've rather taken 2nd place and played a good game rather than sit on 5 rax reapers the entire game and exploit how Blizzard built my race against zerg. Me, myself, not everyone else. That's how I feel. My views on a player are based on HOW they play, not if they win. Your arguing that because I feel that way they shouldn't do it is ridiculous. If they want to be that way, it's their choice, and it's my choice to dislike them for it. End of my discussion. I just want to say that I totally agree with you and appreciate this point of view. It's nice to see that there's someone else out there that wants to win no matter the cost. | ||
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
Sir, I commend you. May your sacrifice be honored by the Gods of Starcraft. I wait eagerly for the results. | ||
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Flannman
United States17 Posts
I hope you read this comment IdrA. Granted I am a fan of yours, but who cares if you think other people place themselves with certain groups of pro players? Personally I wouldn't give a shit, but then again I am not a pro gamer so I guess I wouldn't know. It would be sweet though, granted I don't have a fraction of the time as you guys do. But if you think people are doing that then just be the better man, brush it off, and ignore them. But do keep on truckin with the in-game raging...I do find it hilarious every time lol. As for Morrow being Zerg, I think it is a great thing. You guys should get together and discuss/talk about Zerg, try to come up with different solutions, strategies, build orders, timings, etc etc. Would it not be awesome if others switched over like HuK? If more pro players switched to Zerg, then I could see Zerg maturing more and being a little more creative than before. Granted it can only go so far until Blizzard works more on patching/balancing, but this is a great opportunity for all other players to join in and do the same. Just my two cents I thought I could chime in. Pretty new to the forum posting. Always just been a viewer =P EDIT: Morrow please give us your thoughts as you spend more time with Zerg. I am intrigued to know what you think about the race and what new things you found or improvements that you think should be highly suggested, even if it may be redundant from what previous players stated. The more people we have giving feedback, the better. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:21 DarkShell wrote: Yeah, I'm closed minded. So closed minded that I like seing more than massing one harass unit. So closed minded that after seeing this build done over and over in a series I switched the race it was used against because it required more than building multiple rax and making 1 type of unit to win the game early. Yes, I'm very closed minded. You should also probably learn to read. I tried to force my opinion into the topic by stating that it was mine and mine alone and that I'm not putting it here hoping other people will hop on with it. Flame? Hardly. Troll? Not even close. Your logic is so amazing I feel I should give you a cookie. I felt forced by your opinion. Logic and tact have no place on these forums! | ||
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:41 KissBlade wrote: I felt forced by your opinion. Logic and tact have no place on these forums! But...but....I love you? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:31 DarkShell wrote: Where the hell are you in this discussion? When did anyone say it was an all in? If it was an all in, it wouldn't be so bad because you could lose with it if you didn't do well. The biggest reason it was unbalanced is it harasses a lot more than zerg could ever do and at the same time sets you up for an expand and transition while completely crippling the zerg. When will you learn that you need to learn to read to browse a forum? You're complaining about someone doing something "lame"... to me, an extremely solid fast expansion doesn't count as one so I guess you thought it was an allin? But it seems like you're still in the mental childhood anyway. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:41 ensis wrote: there are some really skilled zerg players out there, but they cannot win and get that popular. thats the big difference. So you think Morrow can, or am i missing something here? | ||
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archaik
Sweden32 Posts
And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! User was banned for this post. | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
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Azile
United States339 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:49 NATO wrote: Of course someone is going to be on a losing streak when they switch races. In Starcraft 2 the races are very different, and that's what makes it great! While some losses are to be expected yes, this is uhh... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5594/morrow.jpg) ..well, over the top a bit. | ||
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Deleted User 55994
949 Posts
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Psyclon
Bulgaria2443 Posts
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Hypatio
549 Posts
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archaik
Sweden32 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:54 Azile wrote: While some losses are to be expected yes, this is uhh... + Show Spoiler + ..well, over the top a bit. Yeah sure plz switch to a different race and play against player of the same skill level that morrow plays and come back and show your match history. Anyone swtiching to a new race will have a huge amount of losses in the start. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:44 archaik wrote: This thread yet again show what a joke this site is, and it's moderators. Lots of player poring hate on MorroW, and the moderators think it's fine. Make one bad comment towards Idra, Artosis, x popular player and you have a ban/warning on your ass. And Idras comments in this thread should warrent him several warnings, maybe a ban, but we all know that wont happen. Hypocrisy at it's best TL! And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! Your free to leave. | ||
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archaik
Sweden32 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:01 Elefanto wrote: Your free to leave. Yeah, that doesn't make this forum any better, if that is your logic. That's like saying it's fine for a country to torture it's citizens as long as "You're free to leave". Take a course in elementary logic. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
He is free to stay as well. What's your point? | ||
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DarkShell
United States13 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:44 archaik wrote: This thread yet again show what a joke this site is, and it's moderators. Lots of player poring hate on MorroW, and the moderators think it's fine. Make one bad comment towards Idra, Artosis, x popular player and you have a ban/warning on your ass. And Idras comments in this thread should warrent him several warnings, maybe a ban, but we all know that wont happen. Hypocrisy at it's best TL! And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! There's been hate on IdrA in this thread, as well. So, your point is invalid. Carry on. | ||
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bLEETZER
Sweden3 Posts
People here seems to think that if someone picks a race and gets any good with it, they shouldn't be allowed to play anything else. That's just ridiculous. MorroW will still do all he can to win tours/online cups, what he does on his spare time is up to him. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 29 2010 22:01 MorroW wrote: yesterdays games some terran games all replays didnt get included in here so sry bout that [url blocked] (dont expect good games at all lol) cause i have to learn the mu from scratch? like day9 days, the best losses r to get completely demolished and say "well obviously i need earlier pool!". this is my method aswell :D Quoting this in case people missed it. I'll link this over at GFaqs as well. I look forward to watching these, so, thanks MorroW! I hope I see some decent play, and learn something too. :D | ||
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
On September 29 2010 23:54 nam nam wrote: 1) All people don't play games just to win money. 2) Not everyone wants to have a full time career playing a game. 3) He's said he's a student, so presumably he have other interests as well and probably haven't got time to practice much more than he is currently doing (if he actually wants to graduate) That's not my point though. He's saying that Terran is too easy. That means that he has mastered Terran and that's simply not true. How can Terran be easy yet has not mastered it? It seems contradictory to me. He wants to find out if the game is too easy for there to be a future which implies he knows where the skill cap is. Yet, I find it hard to believe he has reached that skill cap is what I am trying to say. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:28 VashTS wrote: Quoting this in case people missed it. I'll link this over at GFaqs as well. I look forward to watching these, so, thanks MorroW! I hope I see some decent play, and learn something too. :D From what I've seen, it's mostly morrow making nothing but drones and GGing to 2 hellions =P On September 30 2010 02:31 dcberkeley wrote: That's not my point though. He's saying that Terran is too easy. That means that he has mastered Terran and that's simply not true. How can Terran be easy yet has not mastered it? It seems contradictory to me. He wants to find out if the game is too easy for there to be a future which implies he knows where the skill cap is. Yet, I find it hard to believe he has reached that skill cap is what I am trying to say. He's saying that he can stay at top with 2 hours of practice a day, which he finds boring. Maybe he thinks that T is so easy that he doesn't bother trying to master it when he can just win by doing whatever he is doing now? Maybe T just doesn't interest him. . etc. Who knows. | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
edit: this is a good 100th post btw. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:44 archaik wrote: This thread yet again show what a joke this site is, and it's moderators. Lots of player poring hate on MorroW, and the moderators think it's fine. Make one bad comment towards Idra, Artosis, x popular player and you have a ban/warning on your ass. And Idras comments in this thread should warrent him several warnings, maybe a ban, but we all know that wont happen. Hypocrisy at it's best TL! And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! This is just true. I mean I love this forum, I love the good discussions and I especially love the Strategy subforum. But every thread which is about the current race discussion ends up being an Idra-fanboy vs. Idra-hater battle... And the fanboys are the much more annoying ones because they just state that Idra shouldn't lose anything if he would play the right race because he is the best player. Without doubt. I like Morrows attitude, he makes some logical points, and many people said that they would like to see a top terran play zerg. Well that's your chance, I don't get why everyone is hating Morrow for that. He is basically sacrificing his good ladder ranking and his credibility for testing this out (and for having more fun obviously) and some people are hating and nerdraging him for that, which is just irrational behaviour. But I think the Idra-groupies just are a little bit irrational from time to time Which doesn't say anything about Idra, I like to see him play and I think he is a really smart guy with some manner problems, but he's always honest. I hope Morrow stays at Zerg and doesn't switch back. It's just really cool, I'll be your fan 100%! | ||
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sLiniss
United States849 Posts
I think MorroW should do w/e he wants, I dunno what the big fuss is about :\ | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:32 Shikyo wrote: From what I've seen, it's mostly morrow making nothing but drones and GGing to 2 hellions =P Haha, really? ;o Regardless, I still wanna check it out. I think many others will as well. However.. I find myself in an interesting position, not that it is likely to matter to most people. I feel the same way as MorroW, when it comes to playing Terran vs whatever else. I main Random, so I get to dabble in every race a good bit. However, I find I win almost all of the games I play as Terran, and fewer games as Protoss, and even less as Zerg. I almost want to stop playing Random and go straight to Zerg, because Terran seems easier to play and to get out of more situations, whereas with Zerg, everything seems a little bit harder to manage and escape certain situations. Like I said, not that it probably matters to most. I got up to Gold, and stopped 'Laddering' for a while... Gold League seems like it SHOULD be a decent place to learn how to play, for somebody of my skill level. | ||
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DTown
United States428 Posts
   What playing Zerg feels like:  I give him < 2 weeks before he gives up and switches back to T. Hope I'm wrong tho, best of luck to you MorroW! | ||
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
but that leads me to wonder. morrow, what do you think needs to happen to terran to raise the skill ceiling? do units need nerfs, do mules need a cooldown, should better maps be introduced into the pool, or is it something nobody has suggested yet? i feel like if you, one of the best (if not the best) terrans in sc2 told blizzard exactly what you think needs to happen with the race, it could really do some good. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:31 dcberkeley wrote: pretty sure his competition is just not challenging enoughThat's not my point though. He's saying that Terran is too easy. That means that he has mastered Terran and that's simply not true. How can Terran be easy yet has not mastered it? It seems contradictory to me. He wants to find out if the game is too easy for there to be a future which implies he knows where the skill cap is. Yet, I find it hard to believe he has reached that skill cap is what I am trying to say. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:50 theqat wrote: pretty sure his competition is just not challenging enough And he's a TvT specialist and hm | ||
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DTown
United States428 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:31 dcberkeley wrote: That's not my point though. He's saying that Terran is too easy. That means that he has mastered Terran and that's simply not true. How can Terran be easy yet has not mastered it? It seems contradictory to me. He wants to find out if the game is too easy for there to be a future which implies he knows where the skill cap is. Yet, I find it hard to believe he has reached that skill cap is what I am trying to say. It is possible to have not quite reached the skill ceiling but generally have a good idea of where that ceiling is. Maybe he looks at his replays and says, yea I could have Muled 5 seconds earlier here, and built a couple tanks here instead of hellions, etc. etc. but just by watching his replays and assessing the kinds of things he could improve on, he can get a sense of how far the skill ceiling goes. It is certainly feasible for it to be impossible to reach a skill ceiling 100% but hover around say 95% and still have a reasonable idea of how high the ceiling goes and that you are close to the top. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:57 noD wrote: I was wondering, can someone play random in the gsl? it would be very confusing for opponent and damaging economically dont knowing if u have to wall of or not and stuff or having to do a incredibly early scout =x No, they don't allow it =( | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:57 noD wrote: I was wondering, can someone play random in the gsl? it would be very confusing for opponent and damaging economically dont knowing if u have to wall of or not and stuff or having to do a incredibly early scout =x this is like, the most off-topic thing I've read on this thread o_o btw just watched the replay where Morrow won ^^ | ||
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Zakka
Netherlands762 Posts
On September 29 2010 20:59 MorroW wrote: just because sc1 progamer skill level of bar is x100000 higher than anything else in this world at anything doesnt mean sc1 top gamers outside korea shouldnt tap themselves on the shoulders for accomplishing that. i dont wanna bring up old tsl but there were way more top foreigners dodging me than me dodging them, but obviously that never reached out to the public. if u remove korea from sc1 it was still according to me and this is my opinion was just as competitive as the other top games were. its understandable that u see everything as being special class after living in korea playing with those sc1 progamers but in reality ur just skyrocket above and we sc1 foreigners were on the normal class i practiced it a few hours before dimaga game and then about 10 hours before the idra finals which was during the party and very early in the morning. and that straight up for 1 special build is actually alot since i didnt really have to learn anything else about my race because i already knew it, just had to practice that special opening. if u think this is short time for 1 opening then ur on my side thinking sc2 is too easy of a game aswell idra u shouldnt even be compared to ret or nony since u were clearly above them aswell, just cause nony won u in whatever doesnt mean alot. but its hilariously how u can group up with them in here just to disclude me from it while we both know and think u were above all foreigners by a significant margin. this just goes to show how hard u really wanna put me down like u always have ever since i entered the scene on my way home today from school i just felt it inside me, the spirit to just get home and practice all the damn day. i felt that spark every day playing sc1 and some periods of sc2, then ive just dropped it more and more lately with terran, why? because i dont see much room to improve in my race and i dont have many questions that practicing can answer. when i go home today i have so much to learn with zerg and i realize already how hard it will be, and thats what thrills me to practice. playing 2 hours a day with terran kept me on the top but i dont wanna win without deserving it. i wasnt super happy to win iem because i knew i wouldnt have won it if it was a fair game, i get so happy to lose and learn while winning over and over without learning anything isnt so motivating to practice. thats just who i am and thats why im eager to switch race because im pretty sure blizzard wont make the game any more difficult to play actually i go to school like most normal in sweden ppl expect me to be this massgamer but what ive said already in this thread is that 0-2 hours every day has been enough practice to keep me on top of the scene ever since release, which is absolutely ridiculous display of how little esport sc2 actually is. ive spend about 10 times more time playing events such as tournament or clanwars than practicing and it didnt bring me down. and this is what unmotivates me to practice with the terran race so with that way of thought i can arguably say that trying to squeeze in 3-6 hours of practice each day with zerg should compensate for the difficulty of switching race, zerg race in general and the imbalance. ofcourse it will take a while to adapt so i dont see why anyone would use my loss streak as an argument in any decision right now After reading all your post I've become even a bigger fan of you. Don't listen to stupid haters you do whatever you feel like. I would like it more if you switched to protoss but I think zerg is a bigger challenge : ). The megaupload link isnt working anymore. Please re-upload : ) | ||
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Zakka
Netherlands762 Posts
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LakseWim
Netherlands202 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
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Gomas
Poland312 Posts
Props to you, there is no other pro to have balls like that, and sacrifice their #1 spot for learning purposes only. edit: for previous poster - try sendspace.com | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
This is a much better site anyway. | ||
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GreyTemplar
22 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:34 Gomas wrote: Pleeeeeeeeeeease Morrow upload it again if u can, the link isnt working anymore Props to you, there is no other pro to have balls like that, and sacrifice their #1 spot for learning purposes only. Why be #1 if ur bored with the game and find it too easy? Happy to see him trying Zerg and finding it difficult!! Props to him and much luck as well! | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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leeznon
United States255 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:40 VashTS wrote: Haha, really? ;o Regardless, I still wanna check it out. I think many others will as well. However.. I find myself in an interesting position, not that it is likely to matter to most people. I feel the same way as MorroW, when it comes to playing Terran vs whatever else. I main Random, so I get to dabble in every race a good bit. However, I find I win almost all of the games I play as Terran, and fewer games as Protoss, and even less as Zerg. I almost want to stop playing Random and go straight to Zerg, because Terran seems easier to play and to get out of more situations, whereas with Zerg, everything seems a little bit harder to manage and escape certain situations. Like I said, not that it probably matters to most. I got up to Gold, and stopped 'Laddering' for a while... Gold League seems like it SHOULD be a decent place to learn how to play, for somebody of my skill level. Didn't you read Morrows post you first responded to? | ||
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leeznon
United States255 Posts
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/8lvr-y.jpg | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:35 theqat wrote: lol, good to see idra still can't stand that morrow is successful and good. accusing him of cheating is really a low blow. if you didn't do something outside the rules you didn't cheat. have some dignity, man well, morrow did cheese his way up the ladder in TSL2 by doing the same strategy over and over again... I know in TvZ it was walloff + bunker his opponent on heart break ridge, not sure what the follow up was. morrow was clearly not a top player in bw, which showed when he was eliminated in the first round (I think?) of the TSL post-qualification tournament. But he's definitely a top SC2 player as evidenced by his tournament/event dominance, so at this point IdrA needs to stop talking shit. | ||
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NehR
Sweden87 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:42 leeznon wrote: Ok I found the link, here: http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/8lvr-y.jpg Or you could just check Morrow's signature: dont mess with my hidden zerg skills http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4638/ceece.jpg | ||
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Nillinch
Poland147 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:32 noD wrote: is there any public non-registering need to do site ? I have the .rar here .... You can easily upload here: http://starcraft2reps.com/ | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:44 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: well, morrow did cheese his way up the ladder in TSL2 by doing the same strategy over and over again... I know in TvZ it was walloff + bunker his opponent on heart break ridge, not sure what the follow up was. morrow was clearly not a top player in bw, which showed when he was eliminated in the first round (I think?) of the TSL post-qualification tournament. But he's definitely a top SC2 player as evidenced by his tournament/event dominance, so at this point IdrA needs to stop talking shit. yeah I remember his strats too, but cheesing isn't cheating at all in any way. TL bans cheaters, including a lot of them in tsl2. morrow didn't get banned. accusing him of cheating is unsubstantiated bs that idra gets away with on the strength of his own name. | ||
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JamieDukes
Russian Federation82 Posts
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:53 theqat wrote: yeah I remember his strats too, but cheesing isn't cheating at all in any way. TL bans cheaters, including a lot of them in tsl2. morrow didn't get banned. accusing him of cheating is unsubstantiated bs that idra gets away with on the strength of his own name. Yeah how about the fact that he got free wins off of D-level players? I would consider that cheating but TL didn't I guess. And yes I realize that he only get a few couple of points off of them to tip him over to A, but I still think it's pretty bad. | ||
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virgol
Sweden61 Posts
Here's a 32-page thread that delivers a LOT of whine and hate against MorroW, who STILL responds cool and mature as always. Of course idrA will join in and vent some of his depression over failing at GSL. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
I also race-switched from Toss to Zerg...Zerg is a quite fun race to play and it shouldn't take you much long to be really good at it I hope | ||
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ckw
United States1018 Posts
Also, if MorroW was doing the SAME cheese consistently it would be you'r own dumb fault for not preparing for it and making the proper adjustments to you'r play. | ||
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powernapper
Italy21 Posts
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Yeld
Austria106 Posts
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:59 Adeny wrote: it's either within the rules or it's not. that's how rules work. if not outside the rules, it wasn't cheating. plenty of others did the same and haven't won 12 sc2 tournamentsYeah how about the fact that he got free wins off of D-level players? I would consider that cheating but TL didn't I guess. And yes I realize that he only get a few couple of points off of them to tip him over to A, but I still think it's pretty bad. | ||
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HypoTL
United States1 Post
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
On September 30 2010 04:08 theqat wrote: it's either within the rules or it's not. that's how rules work. if not outside the rules, it wasn't cheating. plenty of others did the same and haven't won 12 sc2 tournaments What if he got every single win off of D-level players? Hell, what if I got every single win off of D-level players and qualified for the TSL? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5074/40379652.jpg) Source: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/213221/1/mouzMorroW/matches#filter=solo | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 30 2010 04:11 Adeny wrote: What if he got every single win off of D-level players? Hell, what if I got every single win off of D-level players and qualified for the TSL? that would have been virtually impossible given how few points you'd eventually get, but if you somehow managed it without going outside the rules, then fine. you'd probably lose 3-0 off the bat anyway. don't know what point you were trying to make here. anyway the point of all this pre-derail is that morrow is pretty legit in sc2 and can do fine with zerg with enough practice. haters gonna hate! | ||
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Prixm
Sweden145 Posts
Have fun and go go! | ||
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BlindPhaydo
United States33 Posts
GL with the Zerg experiment, Morrow. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 04:11 Adeny wrote: What if he got every single win off of D-level players? Hell, what if I got every single win off of D-level players and qualified for the TSL? Well you'd need to win like 60 games a day, maybe it's possible... | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
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johlar
Sweden165 Posts
And to those who dont seem to realise, MorroW has played other games than the 5-rax crap vs idra at IEM Will be very intresting watching your reppack morrow | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:33 KissBlade wrote: Let me get this straight, Idra delivers some facts in this thread and people bashes him because he just has an ego blah blah blah etc. Yet Morrow seems to just straight up brags and people give him respect for it? That is such nonsense. Surprise surprise, Europeans love Morrow because of rose colored lenses. ENOUGH SAID But yeah there's no nationalism bias at all in this thread. Europe is not a nation. | ||
Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:34 Bommes wrote: This is just true. I mean I love this forum, I love the good discussions and I especially love the Strategy subforum. But every thread which is about the current race discussion ends up being an Idra-fanboy vs. Idra-hater battle... And the fanboys are the much more annoying ones because they just state that Idra shouldn't lose anything if he would play the right race because he is the best player. Without doubt. I like Morrows attitude, he makes some logical points, and many people said that they would like to see a top terran play zerg. Well that's your chance, I don't get why everyone is hating Morrow for that. He is basically sacrificing his good ladder ranking and his credibility for testing this out (and for having more fun obviously) and some people are hating and nerdraging him for that, which is just irrational behaviour. But I think the Idra-groupies just are a little bit irrational from time to time Which doesn't say anything about Idra, I like to see him play and I think he is a really smart guy with some manner problems, but he's always honest. I hope Morrow stays at Zerg and doesn't switch back. It's just really cool, I'll be your fan 100%! Well, I'm in this thread cleaning it up now. I'd appreciate a little faith in late action than anger towards a job not being done immediately. | ||
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AtlasJQ
Canada138 Posts
That said I've found Morrow's responses to be very mature and responsible and I am 100% impressed with him in this thread. It makes me wish we did have a subforum where only the top players could post but everyone else could read so we didnt have these good conversations inflated by 25 pages of nonsense and maybe 5 pages of useful posts. | ||
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J7S
Brazil179 Posts
But you say that you got to the peak playing Terran and can't improve anymore and that the game is easy. I question this, you are one of the best players out there, of course the game will be easy don't you think? You practiced a lot and have a huge BW background too. Wouldn't Flash and Jaedong say that BW is easy for them? I have hope in the game. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
My best wishes and support to you as you strive to master Zerg. It's awesome to see a progamer who is willing to take a hit in their rankings to try something new. Let it be a reminder to us all that we play SC2 because we ENJOY IT and it is FUN! As a Zerg player looking to improve their own gameplay, I'm looking forward to reviewing your replay packs to watch you learn how to play Zerg and hopefully it will open my eyes to new things as well. Hopefully you will not be shy about posting your discoveries here in TL.net and in the strategy forums! Best of luck to you!To the trolls/flamers, MorroW is an excellent player, and not just because he played Terran. While Terran is commonly perceived as overpowered, it still takes a great deal of skill and refined play to perform at the level that MorroW has, and for that I respect him, even if he's not been the one I've been cheering for in most tournaments (IdrA at IEM, damn you reapers!). If MorroW sticks with Zerg, I have no doubt that he will perform very well, because he is just a good gamer and has a good grasp on the mechanics and strategy of the game. Good players > racial imba; just look at IdrA, Sen, Cool, and Dimaga, each of whom makes Zerg look OP. Again, best of luck you you MorroW! Please educate the rest of us swarmers with you insights and discoveries as you learn Zerg, and additional replay packs are definitely welcome! | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
On September 30 2010 00:04 MorroW wrote: hehe. nono i just play macro games now in practice, once i learn the basics ill get to the funk :d madfrog giving me some serious zvz headsup right here so that should boost my improvement :D Struggling zvz player here. Care to share some of that advice from madfrog? Also, by the way, major props on doin your own thing dude. Its pretty encouraging seeing u try zerg out and handling your zerg losses like a total boss. I've been hesitant to play after all these nerfs to zerg. After reading through your posts in this thread though, hearing about your recent change to learning zerg, and positive outlook on losing/learning a new race for fun, encourages me all to hell to suck it up and continue my climb up the ladder. I need to adopt that day 9 "better get an earlier pool" outlook. But yeah keep it up, and thanks for posting! and good luck with that zergage! | ||
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qd
Germany37 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:44 archaik wrote: This thread yet again show what a joke this site is, and it's moderators. Lots of player poring hate on MorroW, and the moderators think it's fine. Make one bad comment towards Idra, Artosis, x popular player and you have a ban/warning on your ass. And Idras comments in this thread should warrent him several warnings, maybe a ban, but we all know that wont happen. Hypocrisy at it's best TL! And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! User was banned for this post. now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... User was warned for this post | ||
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
Morrow is obviously a baller and I look forward to seeing more from his play as Zerg. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:34 qd wrote: now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... Obviously it was because he misspelled fighting. Or maybe it was because the forum rules...I dunno. Suppose you might be finding out pretty soon tho. | ||
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qd
Germany37 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:42 SpaceYeti wrote: Obviously it was because he misspelled fighting. Or maybe it was because the forum rules...I dunno. Suppose you might be finding out pretty soon tho. would prove my point... | ||
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MuuMuuKnight
Thailand107 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:34 qd wrote: now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... TL.net Ten Commandments "You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not a "for profit" enterprise. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." " Pretty fair warning when you signed up to this site. | ||
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grigorin
Austria275 Posts
If you want to know why he is banned, just look it up: archaik was just banned by Chill. That account was created on 2010-03-28 00:08:05 and had 32 posts. Reason: I have released you from your clutches of the "retarded moderators" in your TL prison. Good luck my child, and enjoy the internet in it's pure glory. Go now. Be free. I think TL has a quite transparent system regarding bans. On Topic: I am really excited how this experiment turns out, but I think morrow will just switch back to terran (and be stronger than ever in TvZ because of his improved knowledge) | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:34 qd wrote: now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... If someone posts "this site and its moderators are a joke" we're going to warn or ban him. Especially when the user has two previous warnings in only 32 posts. I do not see any hypocrisy here. There is a place for site criticism and feedback. We accept it willingly provided it's respectful and reasonable, but we won't tolerate someone who posts like this guy. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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Butcherski
Poland446 Posts
suriously tho im sure this will give him some perspective i just dont get the fam war that is going on ... zerg players should be happy cause its win-win situation. | ||
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qd
Germany37 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:48 MuuMuuKnight wrote: TL.net Ten Commandments "You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. " Pretty fair warning when you signed up to this site. respect goes both ways, (idra) and yet he did not got banned? | ||
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JamieDukes
Russian Federation82 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:52 grigorin wrote: Whoa! You can look up for what reason people get banned? That's cool, and really smart. How do yo do that? I don't see it anywhere in poster profiles.If you want to know why he is banned, just look it up: I think TL has a quite transparent system regarding bans | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:57 qd wrote: You misquoted the part where it basically says, "we do what we want, it's our site, and if you don't like it or think it's unfair, tough shit. Deal with it."respect goes both ways, (idra) and yet he did not got banned? I support this message. It's a private site. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:58 SpaceYeti wrote: Whoa! You can look up for what reason people get banned? That's cool, and really smart. How do yo do that? I don't see it anywhere in poster profiles. It's only one of the best threads on TL! It should be featured http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696 | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:57 qd wrote: respect goes both ways, (idra) and yet he did not got banned? Not to derail this thread to much from it's subject, but their site is their site : ) Still seems as Morrow are getting slightly better today ! He is getting a win here and there now. A lot better then 0-XX whatever the losing streak was on: ) | ||
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
On September 30 2010 02:50 theqat wrote: pretty sure his competition is just not challenging enough That's what I'm trying to say though, argh. He should get a KR account and if he's still at the top then, then I can understand switching to zerg. But his competition isn't enough not because there isn't competition that exists, it's that he's not looking for it. It's akin to handicapping yourself by playing with one hand in basketball because there just isn't good competition in your neighbourhood instead of trying to play in the nba. I don't think anyone understands my point. | ||
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awha
Denmark1358 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:34 qd wrote: now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... I still dont understand why you and many others get so angry and post like that You shouldnt turn an interesting thread into crap like that. Manners? | ||
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grigorin
Austria275 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:02 Buffy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2010 05:57 qd wrote: respect goes both ways, (idra) and yet he did not got banned? Not to derail this thread to much from it's subject, but their site is their site : ) Still seems as Morrow are getting slightly better today ! He is getting a win here and there now. A lot better then 0-XX whatever the losing streak was on: ) Or, he is playing less skilled players because of how the match making system works. I hope he stays in diamond ^_^ | ||
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Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:02 Buffy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2010 05:57 qd wrote: respect goes both ways, (idra) and yet he did not got banned? Not to derail this thread to much from it's subject, but their site is their site : ) Still seems as Morrow are getting slightly better today ! He is getting a win here and there now. A lot better then 0-XX whatever the losing streak was on: ) The 3-game win streak blew my mind... | ||
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qd
Germany37 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:00 SpaceYeti wrote: You misquoted the part where it basically says, "we do what we want, it's our site, and if you don't like it or think it's unfair, tough shit. Deal with it." I support this message. It's a private site. hehe, well, good to know then. all the rules, except one are fubar then... just list the one rule then. lol dude... never the less, MorroW, i did hate your abusing tvz (vs idra) but wish you good luck as zerg, 4 the swarm dude ^^ | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
Although you are underrated while others remain overrated *cough*. | ||
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Gackt_
335 Posts
I bet many others would love to see that aswell. Lawl | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:15 hifriend wrote: Morrow you should set up a stream. I'm sure a lot of people would like to follow your progress as zerg (captain obvious here). Agreed. I'd watch it realtime. Would be great to see/hear what your thought process is like, which is NOT something one can (easily) understand via replays or commentaries. Also, maybe you can show us... your secksee side? ;o lolz jk | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
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JamieDukes
Russian Federation82 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:08 Chill wrote: If you have problems with my moderation, PM me directly. Derailing this thread with complaints of moderator action will not be tolerated. yep i have a problem your big brother frm another mother DJ Wheat not know what a PDD is stop hatin on the lil guys Chill out m8 User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:34 qd wrote: now why exactly did he just got banned? you TL guys are fucking hypocrits... spreading hate > non tl fucktards... Because archaik is just (1) rageing, (2) making up some false hate conspiracy against morrow (3), and have no idea what people like artosis and idra have done for this community. This post desserves a warning. But then considering that he has already been warned and shows no respect for the moderators this bann seems perfectly legit to me. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:20 TT1 wrote: why does this retarded thread have 35 pages worth of posts, stop turning tl.net into gg.net plz There are a lot of worthless posts in this thread, to be sure. But I wouldn't condemn teh thread as a whole. TL.net is a SC esports community and fans want to know what their favorite players are doing. If anything, the numerous posts supporting MorroW or respectfully "smack-talking" about his potential switch show that esports are alive and well and that TL.net users are interested in where the game is going. But yes, there are a lot of shit posts in this thread as well. | ||
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GP
United States1056 Posts
On September 30 2010 05:37 SeaSmoke wrote: Welcome to the swarm Morrow...I'm majorly disappointed seeing all the haters in this thread. Especially IdrA. There's nothing to gain from making such remarks. There's a fine line between being a "no nonsense guy" and being a flat out dick. Let the guy play, e's having fun...remember everyone this is a game. Morrow is obviously a baller and I look forward to seeing more from his play as Zerg. I have to say I'm impressed with MorroW here, the guy's a brilliant player, and I hope this experiment of his is not just for fun. I'd like to see him compete in the future as Zerg. This post kind of sums up how I feel. I've been a lurker here for a long time and it just kind of disappoints me to see MorroW get such flak for something so stupid. It gets kind of old to see Idra go around and badmouth people on the forum and pretty much call morrow a retard (the "special class" thing), I'm glad to see MorroW counter his comments with such a good attitude ("idra has a grudge against most ppl and i dont have any grudge against him"). Such class. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:20 TT1 wrote: why does this retarded thread have 35 pages worth of posts, stop turning tl.net into gg.net plz You realize how hypocritical your post is, right? You're certainly not helping what you suggest as a problem. Maybe we should spend more time trying to construct posts that help better the game and e-sports, instead of just writing words in order to be heard, or sound cool, or attempt to seem smart. Doing so would probably succeed more in what you want than more one line responses that only degrade the integrity of the entire thread. Hell, if people would just listen more and talk less, they wouldn't fill the forums with a billion things already said, done, and discussed two years ago. And hell again, if people just thought more than they talked or typed the world would probably be a much better place overall. And if you find yourself in a position where someones post is flustering you, don't immediately type out a reply and fill the thread with rage. Think about the persons position for a moment. Yeah, it's weird, I know; But just think for a bit. Sometimes you'll garner more substantial information about the subject, and can apply a better response than a line of rage. Thanks for tuning in to a (no so)Uncultured moment. | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:26 SpaceYeti wrote: There are a lot of worthless posts in this thread, to be sure. But I wouldn't condemn teh thread as a whole. TL.net is a SC esports community and fans want to know what their favorite players are doing. If anything, the numerous posts supporting MorroW or respectfully "smack-talking" about his potential switch show that esports are alive and well and that TL.net users are interested in where the game is going. But yes, there are a lot of shit posts in this thread as well. regardless of the shitty posts.. why would you guys think that someone who is offracing in games for fun is newsworthy? i have a hard time understanding how this managed to turn into a 35 page discussion | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
Also, as someone said: "I actually remember Idra giving you credits for being one of the better BW foreigners and a great SC2 player in an interview at IEM. He said he was suprised you were the 17th player as you should have been seeded in from the start." His rage is due to the fact that he lost the finals to him, and it is dreadful to watch Idra acting like this. I would love to see morrow own as zerg, and I guess he will. The problem however is that I don't see any future in SC2 since both Terran and Protoss are too easy to play, and only Zerg remains as a race that feels like it is Starcraft. The skill ceiling for T and P have soon or have already been reached, and they are still a bit above Zerg, but since Zerg is the only race that are a true Starcraft race, the skill ceiling is far by reached by any zerg, and when the beasts from Korea starts to perfect Zerg, I am pretty sure that with the balance right now, these zergs won't be able to lose to anything but mirror matches. | ||
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Devlin
Sweden91 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:44 TT1 wrote: regardless of the shitty posts.. why is this newswothy? A thread with 35 pages is most likely a testament that it attracts some interest from the forum-goers here on tl. Discussing any major SC2 players' decision to test a different race can certainly be interesting, even more so as the race chosen is the least represented one, and possibly the weakest. MorroW shares the replays from his learning sessions, which can provide the rest of us some insight in how more experienced players go about learning new things! Forum threads don't need to be news to be discussed by the way. This isn't CNN, it's the SC2 General forum! | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
Just seems kinda almost rude for some reason. I dunno tho, could just be me, lol. Either way, morrow! GL with your zerg training man. I want to sorta question the whole idea behind leaving after small/easy to recover from mistakes, but you're the pro, not me. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you know best on these matters. Being a plat zerg, still learning the game myself, maybe your replays of learning the zerg will even be somewhat helpful to my own learning process! Who knows! Much love for you morrow. | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:51 Devlin wrote: A thread with 35 pages is most likely a testament that it attracts some interest from the forum-goers here on tl. Discussing any major SC2 players' decision to test a different race can certainly be interesting, even more so as the race chosen is the least represented one, and possibly the weakest. MorroW shares the replays from his learning sessions, which can provide the rest of us some insight in how more experienced players go about learning new things! Forum threads don't need to be news to be discussed by the way. This isn't CNN, it's the SC2 General forum! if i was a poster id worry less about all this edrama bullshit in order to focus more on getting better so i can avoid posting retarded shit on the forums because i have no knowledge about anything.. to each his own i guess | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:51 Devlin wrote: A thread with 35 pages is most likely a testament that it attracts some interest from the forum-goers here on tl. Discussing any major SC2 players' decision to test a different race can certainly be interesting, even more so as the race chosen is the least represented one, and possibly the weakest. MorroW shares the replays from his learning sessions, which can provide the rest of us some insight in how more experienced players go about learning new things! Forum threads don't need to be news to be discussed by the way. This isn't CNN, it's the SC2 General forum! ^^This. I think anytime your favorite competitor does something seriously that could affect their future performance is very newsworthy. It's like if Dwight Howard decided he was going to start practicing as a point guard instead of a center (yes, a poor analogy, what what analogy isn't poor?). Basketball and Dwight Howard fans would be interested to know, and they would discuss the merits or flaws of his decision for countless pages on forums all over the internet. But what it all shows is that they love basketball and they love following it;s developments. I mean shit, why do people care about the weekly updates on what TLO and Jinro and the boys are doing in South Korea and how they decide who has the wash the dishes? Because we're fans of the sport, fans of the players, and we like to learn about them and what they do. | ||
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NoXious90
United Kingdom160 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:44 TT1 wrote: regardless of the shitty posts.. why would you guys think that someone who is offracing in games for fun is newsworthy? i have a hard time understanding how this managed to turn into a 35 page discussion That 'someone' is a top terran who's been trying out zerg on ladder. I think the real question is, how is that not worthy of news/discussion? | ||
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johnouyoung
United States28 Posts
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GP
United States1056 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:00 SpaceYeti wrote: ^^This. I think anytime your favorite competitor does something seriously that could affect their future performance is very newsworthy. It's like if Dwight Howard decided he was going to start practicing as a point guard instead of a center (yes, a poor analogy, what what analogy isn't poor?). Basketball and Dwight Howard fans would be interested to know, and they would discuss the merits or flaws of his decision for countless pages on forums all over the internet. But what it all shows is that they love basketball and they love following it;s developments. I reckon it more like someone reporting that Dwight Howard decided he'd play point guard in some games of street ball. In any case I still think it's an interesting topic and I'd like to see further updates on how well Morrow does. I wouldn't say he's practicing until he says he's actually doing it for upcoming tournys. | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
Or, he is playing less skilled players because of how the match making system works. I hope he stays in diamond ^_^ Well he is certainly playing less skilled players. After 20-40 games of almost constant losing his MMR is probably in the toilet even though he still has 1500+ points. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:09 GP wrote: Very true. Regardless, these are hours he could be putting into playing Terran. I reckon it more like someone reporting that Dwight Howard decided he'd play point guard in some games of street ball. In any case I still think it's an interesting topic and I'd like to see further updates on how well Morrow does. I wouldn't say he's practicing until he says he's actually doing it for upcoming tournys. In any case, playing as Zerg could make him a better Terran player if he doesn't decide to switch. | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
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SeaSmoke
United States326 Posts
Morrow would be a huge name if he can play well with the swarm. If he stuck with Terran he'd just get lost in the already crowded scene. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:15 TT1 wrote: Don't read them? Clicking on the thread IS optional. Clearly a lot of people like to follow it.if morrow enjoys the attention and wants to please his fans then he should make a blog and update it with his reppacks, i personally dont give a fuck about the daily "how morrows z is doing" updates on the general forum | ||
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MRMultiBryn
Sweden78 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:15 TT1 wrote: if morrow enjoys the attention and wants to please his fans then he should make a blog and update it with his reppacks, i personally dont give a fuck about the daily "how morrows z is doing" updates on the general forum You have posted three times in this thread already. Thats quite alot for someone who doesn't "care". | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:15 TT1 wrote: if morrow enjoys the attention and wants to please his fans then he should make a blog and update it with his reppacks, i personally dont give a fuck about the daily "how morrows z is doing" updates on the general forum Then don't read this thread? There are a ton of threads I don't find particularly interesting so I stay out of them. | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
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yowza
Finland210 Posts
Erm you just read and replied in it. Way to contradict yourself. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:26 yowza wrote: "AHH you guys must have misunderstood me, do you seriously think id waste my time reading a bullshit thread like this? " Erm you just read and replied in it. Way to contradict yourself. And bumped the thread. Anyway, I'm really excited that MorroW is playing Zerg and posting rep-packages. MorroW, keep em coming. It's such an awesome tool for us fellow Zerg players trying to get better to watch someone with your mechanics learn a new race. I'd like to watch qxc or Huk play Zerg. | ||
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razamanaz
271 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:57 TT1 wrote: if i was a poster id worry less about all this edrama bullshit in order to focus more on getting better so i can avoid posting retarded shit on the forums because i have no knowledge about anything.. to each his own i guess Oh the irony Instead of ignoring this e-drama as you say you would , you post here about how you dont care whats happening in this thread . Golden logic . | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
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MRMultiBryn
Sweden78 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:23 TT1 wrote: AHH you guys must have misunderstood me, do you seriously think id waste my time reading a bullshit thread like this? my problem is that whenever i come on tl.net i see this ugly thread name on top of the sc2 general section and it reminds me of how bad the posters are on this site Funny you come in here blasting fellow forumgoers for posting "shitty" comments while you haven't produced anything but just that in this thread. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:23 TT1 wrote: AHH you guys must have misunderstood me, do you seriously think id waste my time reading a bullshit thread like this? my problem is that whenever i come on tl.net i see this ugly thread name on top of the sc2 general section and it reminds me of how bad the posters are on this site Fortunately these threads have a tendency to get idiots and trolls fired up which gives our fine moderators opportunity to wreak havoc with the banhammer. So in a way they serve an additional purpose besides the fact that morrow switching to Z is pretty newsworthy. | ||
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TT1
Canada10010 Posts
k im done, hf with ur discussion | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:57 TT1 wrote: if i was a poster id worry less about all this edrama bullshit in order to focus more on getting better so i can avoid posting retarded shit on the forums because i have no knowledge about anything.. to each his own i guess Isn't that what the strategy forum is for? Isn't general about discussing interesting topics like what players are doing? A lot of people DO find MorroW trying Zerg interesting. | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:36 TT1 wrote: in fairness to the posters i decided to pick on this thread in particular after i saw all the attention it got but it was mainly fueled by the all the various garbage threads that people start up k im done, hf with ur discussion K let us know when you switch to Zerg so we can all not care. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:15 TT1 wrote: if morrow enjoys the attention and wants to please his fans then he should make a blog and update it with his reppacks, i personally dont give a fuck about the daily "how morrows z is doing" updates on the general forum Why do you read / post on this thread then o_o Also this isn't even Morrow's idea now is it? | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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Choirdrunk
Canada131 Posts
I hereby name Morrow's defense: The subtle ultimate metagame checkmate. Our hero is assaulted early by the fanboy throngs. Morrow defends with a mix of confidence and nonchalance. Sure, he was a strong BW player, he claims, but SC2 is a different animal with a lower skillcap. Plus, he plays for fun. In comes IdrAGE! "Morrow was never good" bellows our fuming protagonist. Let us stop now to examine Morrow's strategy. Option A: Go all nerd-internet rage on a 110 lb. albino insulting you Option B: Ignore the telling taunts of a TL legend Option C: Compliment your attacker's play, defend yourself and justify your decision based on broader values you harbor about the place of this game in your life. How many of us at any age, let alone at Morrow's age, could have the self-control and good sense to go with Option C? Instead of falling into the weak trap internet attactive argument of "haha, I beat you at IEM n00b. Stop QQing" Morrow responds in a way that just demolishes IdrA's worldview. The notion that, even when talking about a game we all obsess over, some basic things like decency, thoughtfulness and respect trump superior gaming ability when justifying conclusions. Yeah, IdrA 'won' the battle that Morrow isn't as good as him (which Morrow freely admits) but, in doing so, he lost the war of gaining fans, growing his brand and maintaining respect. What's so amazing is the number of IdrA fanboys (like myself) who you see agreeing with this logic. Maybe this doesn't matter to IdrA. Maybe being the best foreign SC2 gamer is the penultimate form of validation in his life. But, damn, in this thread fight, I'd say Morrow wins by a suprising knockout. | ||
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barrykp
Ireland174 Posts
Those of you who know a little about the history of chess might understand a comparison between idrA and the players of the Romantic generation (this is before the modern era). They understood the importance of winning, but they were equally adamant about doing it the 'right' way (usually this meant gambits and sacrificial attacks). Having watched as many of the GSL games played by Cool (Fruitseller) as I could, I would say his success is partly due to the wide variety of strategies he employs, including everything from solid play, to crazy stuff I never thought of, to 6 pools. I wish there were replay packs of those games so I could copy some things. So yeah; hopefully Morrow will become a contributor to the pool of zerg ideas | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
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Competent
United States406 Posts
On September 30 2010 01:44 archaik wrote: This thread yet again show what a joke this site is, and it's moderators. Lots of player poring hate on MorroW, and the moderators think it's fine. Make one bad comment towards Idra, Artosis, x popular player and you have a ban/warning on your ass. And Idras comments in this thread should warrent him several warnings, maybe a ban, but we all know that wont happen. Hypocrisy at it's best TL! And much respect to MorroW btw. I don't think any other pro player would even consider something like this. He's only 18 but he's got far bigger balls then most 20+ pro players, including Idra. MorroW fightning! User was banned for this post. Honestly wouldn't have taken a direct attack toward the admins, but I do feel like there is more tolerance to Zerg players with trash talking rather than Terran. That's my opinion though. =\ | ||
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Tiorda
United States91 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:45 Competent wrote: Honestly wouldn't have taken a direct attack toward the admins, but I do feel like there is more tolerance to Zerg players with trash talking rather than Terran. That's my opinion though. =\ You should change your name then. | ||
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Cyuss
Germany22 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:16 Choirdrunk wrote: This thread is so EPIC. Imablance, Mutiny on Mods, The Mods strike back, TT1 flipping out. But, the cherry on top of the sundae was (is?) the Idra/Morrow competition which (without strat abuse this time) Morrow has dominated against all odds (IEM duex?) I hereby name Morrow's defense: The subtle ultimate metagame checkmate. Our hero is assaulted early by the fanboy throngs. Morrow defends with a mix of confidence and nonchalance. Sure, he was a strong BW player, he claims, but SC2 is a different animal with a lower skillcap. Plus, he plays for fun. In comes IdrAGE! "Morrow was never good" bellows our fuming protagonist. Let us stop now to examine Morrow's strategy. Option A: Go all nerd-internet rage on a 110 lb. albino insulting you Option B: Ignore the telling taunts of a TL legend Option C: Compliment your attacker's play, defend yourself and justify your decision based on broader values you harbor about the place of this game in your life. How many of us at any age, let alone at Morrow's age, could have the self-control and good sense to go with Option C? Instead of falling into the weak trap internet attactive argument of "haha, I beat you at IEM n00b. Stop QQing" Morrow responds in a way that just demolishes IdrA's worldview. The notion that, even when talking about a game we all obsess over, some basic things like decency, thoughtfulness and respect trump superior gaming ability when justifying conclusions. Yeah, IdrA 'won' the battle that Morrow isn't as good as him (which Morrow freely admits) but, in doing so, he lost the war of gaining fans, growing his brand and maintaining respect. What's so amazing is the number of IdrA fanboys (like myself) who you see agreeing with this logic. Maybe this doesn't matter to IdrA. Maybe being the best foreign SC2 gamer is the penultimate form of validation in his life. But, damn, in this thread fight, I'd say Morrow wins by a suprising knockout. those words are full fo wisdom! Actually I think it was kind of funny yesterday seeing the op's picture (I even first thought it was eddited ), but since then the whole thread became just so full of hate, seeing some big names raging and mass demonstration of MorroW fans against mods. This Thread has it all, but what remains so far is:1.The op's pic is not that funny anymore 2. MorroW has gained so much sympathy by showing hes not ashame or too proud to toy with his real account and not falls into rage when being attacked MorroW is just an excelent player- and he'll also be one as Zerg if he decides to play it. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
im a new guy <-everyone stop reading my post lol - but PLEASE can someone explain to me what is going on here? for the first time in my life i see pro´s flaming each other in "public" and bashing on random people. this thread not makes me wanna watch you pros (i was watching IEM in cologne for example) on streams and casts anymore. it´s not like someone cares about me but there are a lot of people like me around. and let me tell you something. your fucking yourself. no one else but yourself. if id bitch like this at work i could go home and stay there. think about it ;/ no offense. i love you all. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:25 Seam wrote: 12 hours a day of overall practice. vs 2 hours one time on a unit that then absolutely crippled his opponent. I wonder which took more work... (Anyone know where I can find the interviews from IEM? It was after his either IdrA or Dimaga game) and what did morrow do all the time during the beta and before IEM? play tetris all day long? | ||
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baller
527 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:10 leecH wrote: hi everyone. im a new guy <-everyone stop reading my post lol - but PLEASE can someone explain to me what is going on here? for the first time in my life i see pro´s flaming each other in "public" and bashing on random people. this thread not makes me wanna watch you pros (i was watching IEM in cologne for example) on streams and casts anymore. it´s not like someone cares about me but there are a lot of people like me around. and let me tell you something. your fucking yourself. no one else but yourself. if id bitch like this at work i could go home and stay there. think about it ;/ no offense. i love you all. ya man i'm just shocked that of all ppls, idra and morrow would get into a flamewar on the internet forums. some1 think of the children. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
Which has actually always been a giant weakness for western esports, society can't take esports seriously when it's mostly full of kids that "totally pwn newbz". If you want pro-gaming to be viable you have to learn to behave like a professional. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:14 baller wrote: ya man i'm just shocked that of all ppls, idra and morrow would get into a flamewar on the internet forums. some1 think of the children. some1 think of the sponsors. thank god they are to stupid to read the internet. | ||
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:17 leecH wrote: some1 think of the sponsors. thank god they are to stupid to read the internet. well not like most ppl are fan from some zerg due to his robotic near perfect build order and macroing, but rather his constant nerd rages made him famous even for whom doesnt play/watch starcraft .... esports wont be that much famous in western from night to day anyway .... | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:17 leecH wrote: some1 think of the sponsors. thank god they are to stupid to read the internet. The sponsors should already be aware, you just sound like a overly sensitive crybaby. Really, you're going to stop watching SC2 because of this thread with a few comments? One pro saying to another "you weren't very good at another game, I was on a completely different tier than you." Of course, it was said in a much more hostile manner, but there are sports like hockey where people beat the shit out of each other, the fans get riled up, and the punishment is a 5 minute penalty. Trash talking exists in every sport, I suggest you stop being a wimp about things. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:23 FabledIntegral wrote: The sponsors should already be aware, you just sound like a overly sensitive crybaby. Really, you're going to stop watching SC2 because of this thread with a few comments? One pro saying to another "you weren't very good at another game, I was on a completely different tier than you." Of course, it was said in a much more hostile manner, but there are sports like hockey where people beat the shit out of each other, the fans get riled up, and the punishment is a 5 minute penalty. Trash talking exists in every sport, I suggest you stop being a wimp about things. nah.. you get me wrong. im not like all emotional on this ,) im just surprised. people often refer this game to chess. you say its like hockey. this thread seems more like wrestling acting bullshit.... ah fuck it.. why i even care and share my opinion, | ||
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FrostShadow
United States335 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 30 2010 07:36 TT1 wrote: in fairness to the posters i decided to pick on this thread in particular after i saw all the attention it got but it was mainly fueled by the all the various garbage threads that people start up k im done, hf with ur discussion Good thing you're a "pro" gamer, otherwise you would have been temp banned 4 posts ago. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:20 Uncultured wrote: That isn't iamttone, is it? It's TTOne. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On September 30 2010 06:44 TT1 wrote: regardless of the shitty posts.. why would you guys think that someone who is offracing in games for fun is newsworthy? i have a hard time understanding how this managed to turn into a 35 page discussion there's a history here you're unaware of. It goes all the way back to the beta. | ||
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Channel56k
United States413 Posts
On September 30 2010 08:16 Choirdrunk wrote: This thread is so EPIC. Imablance, Mutiny on Mods, The Mods strike back, TT1 flipping out. But, the cherry on top of the sundae was (is?) the Idra/Morrow competition which (without strat abuse this time) Morrow has dominated against all odds (IEM duex?) I hereby name Morrow's defense: The subtle ultimate metagame checkmate. Our hero is assaulted early by the fanboy throngs. Morrow defends with a mix of confidence and nonchalance. Sure, he was a strong BW player, he claims, but SC2 is a different animal with a lower skillcap. Plus, he plays for fun. In comes IdrAGE! "Morrow was never good" bellows our fuming protagonist. Let us stop now to examine Morrow's strategy. Option A: Go all nerd-internet rage on a 110 lb. albino insulting you Option B: Ignore the telling taunts of a TL legend Option C: Compliment your attacker's play, defend yourself and justify your decision based on broader values you harbor about the place of this game in your life. How many of us at any age, let alone at Morrow's age, could have the self-control and good sense to go with Option C? Instead of falling into the weak trap internet attactive argument of "haha, I beat you at IEM n00b. Stop QQing" Morrow responds in a way that just demolishes IdrA's worldview. The notion that, even when talking about a game we all obsess over, some basic things like decency, thoughtfulness and respect trump superior gaming ability when justifying conclusions. Yeah, IdrA 'won' the battle that Morrow isn't as good as him (which Morrow freely admits) but, in doing so, he lost the war of gaining fans, growing his brand and maintaining respect. What's so amazing is the number of IdrA fanboys (like myself) who you see agreeing with this logic. Maybe this doesn't matter to IdrA. Maybe being the best foreign SC2 gamer is the penultimate form of validation in his life. But, damn, in this thread fight, I'd say Morrow wins by a suprising knockout. lol, what are you talking about? Destroy Idra's world view... i honestly cant even wrap my head around that. Idra represents a completely different personality and you've attempted wrap both players reactions/personalities/and thoughts towards the community in option A, B, or C. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 29 2010 17:25 Seam wrote: 12 hours a day of overall practice. vs 2 hours one time on a unit that then absolutely crippled his opponent. I wonder which took more work... (Anyone know where I can find the interviews from IEM? It was after his either IdrA or Dimaga game) Wtf? Even in the interview at IEM he said "I only managed to practice 2 hours vs Dimaga so my micro wasn't that good, but against Idra I was able to practice alot so it was better". Where do you get that he only practiced Reaper micro for 2 hours? And do you even realize that Morrow was an amazing player before that? For instance let's say he hasn't used Banshees and wants to learn to micro them. Do you think it takes Morrow less time than the average noob to learn to micro them perfectly? It sure as hell does. Practicing one build for 12 hours isn't a short time if you're already brilliant at the race and the game. | ||
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
In so doing, he may be able to point out things Blizzard will need to fix with Zerg, improving the race overall. There is also the off chance that he will discover some new strat or build order that propells Zerg back to the top ranks! How exciting that will be! MorroW: I know I'm only Silver League, but I've been experimenting with delayed Queens to some success. I Do the standard quick Zergling Speed and pull 2 drones off gass then go In-Base Hatch to try to compensate for the lack of a Queen until I expand or need AA for Banshee harass; earliest I've been getting Queens is usually probably 3 drones after I drop the in base hatch if I see the opponent VASTLY far ahead of me in food. Probably silly, but I'd like your opinion on this idea if it has merit or if I should go back to toying with Pool->Queen, which is more standard. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 30 2010 09:41 Crackensan wrote: I'm for one really happy that MorroW is playing Zerg. I though that it was some kind of publicity stun, but it appears he's reallly making an effort of learning the race, if for nothing else finding weaknesses in the race to exploit. In so doing, he may be able to point out things Blizzard will need to fix with Zerg, improving the race overall. There is also the off chance that he will discover some new strat or build order that propells Zerg back to the top ranks! How exciting that will be! MorroW: I know I'm only Silver League, but I've been experimenting with delayed Queens to some success. I Do the standard quick Zergling Speed and pull 2 drones off gass then go In-Base Hatch to try to compensate for the lack of a Queen until I expand or need AA for Banshee harass; earliest I've been getting Queens is usually probably 3 drones after I drop the in base hatch if I see the opponent VASTLY far ahead of me in food. Probably silly, but I'd like your opinion on this idea if it has merit or if I should go back to toying with Pool->Queen, which is more standard. There is literally next to zero benefit in doing your build order. I'd recommend trying a new one. | ||
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
Does this fail utterly on short distance maps? ABSOLUTLY. This is bad bad bad on maps like Steeps or Delta, or close spawns on Metalopolis. They key really is that you have so much mineral overflow, you can get things a bit earlier than you normally would. Also, why don't I just FE? Because it stretches my army too thin and I usually lose the expo to MM pressure or with Queen then hatch, I don't have enough 'lings to fend off the Hellions before they annihilate my drones. I understand that this is related to my micro, something that I am working on. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
Basically, I'm trying new idea's to see if there's anything outside of what was developed in beta and just after release in terms of build orders or efficiancy for teching purposes or army size/response to scouting. From that challenge seemed to be a trend of players being able to tech STUPID fast, and if your micro can keep you units alive, live to see the win. Where that was a no-Queen all game challenge, many of the replays he showed could have easily afforded, and benifited from a Queen Late, especially the quick Spire builds that he showed. It's something that I've been workin' on and seeing if it is at all viable. Just trying to think outside the box...... | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 10:28 Crackensan wrote: Refere to the Day[9] Challenge of not building Queens. Basically, I'm trying new idea's to see if there's anything outside of what was developed in beta and just after release in terms of build orders or efficiancy for teching purposes or army size/response to scouting. From that challenge seemed to be a trend of players being able to tech STUPID fast, and if your micro can keep you units alive, live to see the win. Where that was a no-Queen all game challenge, many of the replays he showed could have easily afforded, and benifited from a Queen Late, especially the quick Spire builds that he showed. It's something that I've been workin' on and seeing if it is at all viable. Just trying to think outside the box...... There's a difference between thinking outside the box and having a bad build. A 1hatch lair that doesn't allow you to get a queen out is so unnecessarily fast that you will be completely allin with your fast mutas and if your opponent makes any kind of anti-air you lose. If you're going to get another hatch before lair, just get one queen instead and you can even go Lair faster. It's just dumb if you're not planning on expanding with it. | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
If anything, people need to experiment with getting more queens. Once you have 3-4 queens with full energy, transfuses can really change the outcome of a battle even with units like roaches. You should see what 1 ultra can do with queens constantly healing it. | ||
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
Also, I totally didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry, I just wanted MorroW's opinion..... ;_; Idra's.... I guess, but I'm afraid I'd be burned after the flaming hot rage. | ||
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arnold(soTa)
Sweden352 Posts
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
Well there goes my respect for one of the pro gamers then. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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toadstool
Australia421 Posts
On September 30 2010 10:57 mierin wrote: For everyone electronically giving MorroW a handjob...the most fantastic thing about this is that he realizes he's not that amazing a player. He goes to school, plays 2 hrs a day, yet somehow manages to crush legitimate pros using builds he barely practices. This whole thing is him trying to grow as a player. I didn't even figure this out until recently. And you just gave him a vaseline KY jelly handjob to top it off, well done. A lot of people play different races. TLO plays Zerg for fun sometimes. I play Zerg, but sometimes I switch to Protoss. *waits for electronic handjobs* | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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sikatrix
Canada172 Posts
On September 30 2010 10:53 Uncultured wrote: Well there goes my respect for one of the pro gamers then. nobody cares. also, he's right. How/why the hell is this thread still going on. morrows off-racing, cool, big deal. Move on. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
Its like professional sports. Athletes there become as good as they are by literally striving to be the best. Unfortunately, many of them can't do that while not, at the same time, actually believing theyre better than other players. Even if their record doesnt show it, they still believe it. Idra can only show respect to Morrow if he beats him. Morrow beats Idra, Idra goes into classic haterage. TT1, i didnt know hes a pro (not too familiar with the professional gamer scene), but it made sense given all his self-satisfied "im better than all you shitty posters in this 35 page shitty thread" attitude. Jealous of all the attention and praise Morrows getting? Trying to emulate Idra's "any attention is good attention" principle? Grow up man. People see an athlete/pro give props to a good teammate or opponent who outperformed them and think, "wow, this guy is a really respectful and respectable guy!" Wait a sec, thats how people should act isnt it? But I guess were all so used to "pros" being assholes so suddenly being a normal, decent human being is something incredible when describing a pro. People like Idra and TT1 need to be brought down to earth. Idra, Morrow says he plays 0-2 hours a day, and does things that are actually productive during the other parts of the day, such as going to school. And he still beat you in a tournament final. Wanna blame it on imbalance? Just goes to show how insignificant your life's work is, seeing how the rules of your profession are dictated by the whims of some "development team" located in Irvine, CA. You are not someone who is above showing people respect. Stop being an asshole. And as for TT1...who are the hell are you? | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On September 30 2010 10:59 toadstool wrote: And you just gave him a vaseline KY jelly handjob to top it off, well done. A lot of people play different races. TLO plays Zerg for fun sometimes. I play Zerg, but sometimes I switch to Protoss. *waits for electronic handjobs* His or hers?  Actually, if I had to give one player an electronic KY jelly handjob, it'd be Cool | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 30 2010 11:29 sikatrix wrote: nobody cares. also, he's right. How/why the hell is this thread still going on. morrows off-racing, cool, big deal. Move on. Could you point me to another 2000+ player who switched races and used ladder instead of custom games for practice? | ||
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Nevecy
New Zealand75 Posts
On September 30 2010 11:31 Supamang wrote: Whys there so much hate between these pros? Pretty obvious isnt it? Its like professional sports. Athletes there become as good as they are by literally striving to be the best. Unfortunately, many of them can't do that while not, at the same time, actually believing theyre better than other players. Even if their record doesnt show it, they still believe it. Idra can only show respect to Morrow if he beats him. Morrow beats Idra, Idra goes into classic haterage. TT1, i didnt know hes a pro (not too familiar with the professional gamer scene), but it made sense given all his self-satisfied "im better than all you shitty posters in this 35 page shitty thread" attitude. Jealous of all the attention and praise Morrows getting? Trying to emulate Idra's "any attention is good attention" principle? Grow up man. People see an athlete/pro give props to a good teammate or opponent who outperformed them and think, "wow, this guy is a really respectful and respectable guy!" Wait a sec, thats how people should act isnt it? But I guess were all so used to "pros" being assholes so suddenly being a normal, decent human being is something incredible when describing a pro. People like Idra and TT1 need to be brought down to earth. Idra, Morrow says he plays 0-2 hours a day, and does things that are actually productive during the other parts of the day, such as going to school. And he still beat you in a tournament final. Wanna blame it on imbalance? Just goes to show how insignificant your life's work is, seeing how the rules of your profession are dictated by the whims of some "development team" located in Irvine, CA. You are not someone who is above showing people respect. Stop being an asshole. And as for TT1...who are the hell are you? So now you basically just judging Idra of what he enjoys to do with his time by deeming it less "productive". Do you know what Idra has done for the SC Community and foreign gaming? And Morrow said that in a specific case, on average he will practice more then 2 hours a day when he finishes school. Also TT1 is an established protoss player, if you havn't even heard of him shows how much attention you pay to the SC2 pro scene. | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On September 30 2010 12:24 Nevecy wrote: Also TT1 is an established protoss player, if you havn't even heard of him shows how much attention you pay to the SC2 pro scene. and also previously a high profile hacker in bw...... | ||
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Abdiel
52 Posts
The other posters however have degenerated this thread into a huge nerd war, the kind of thing you would expect to find on the entertainment tonight forums. | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:51 MorroW wrote: when did i trash talk? nice hate thread right here im not playing zerg to back up my words, im playing zerg to find out if its any more fun than terran is, or any harder whatever. its starting to get boring in the long run to play sc2 terarn because its 10 times easier than sc1. i want challange and esport but sc2 is not hard at all. i play toss some games and won vs top level terrans and not even knowing hotkeys ... i just wish they made terran and protoss harder to play zerg was so difficult to play on mechanics than terran was, which makes me really tempted to switch i dont even know zerg hotkeys or early game bo would u expect me to lose vs any diamond on 2000 ladder pts area? xD im not trying to prove anything, why would this prove anything anyway lol. im just testing stuff out to see if the grass is greener ... I hope you switch Morrow! You are such a good player and I'd love to see what you would be able to do with Zerg! Still respect you even if you decide to stick with Terran. | ||
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
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