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universalwill
United States654 Posts
i could see them patching this patch though. really, the building thing wasn't that big a deal. it just meant that planetary fortresses could actually die which, in the eyes of anyone but whoever at blizzard who released this patch, would seem reasonable. man i hate myself for picking zerg. | ||
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On September 29 2010 02:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: ZvT winrates spiraled out of control to above 10%, luckily this "bug fix" is here to restore order in the world of Terrancraft. Do people honestly not understand why Zs might be pissed off? our race has had fundamental problems since beta, goes through countless nerfs, and anytime something pops up, it gets nerfed into oblivion and them some, while the moment a T complains about something, a patch comes out the next day -.- I was gonna stay out of this one, but I have to give this post props hahaha. Happy birthday CS! | ||
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Stoli
Canada173 Posts
On September 29 2010 02:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: ZvT winrates spiraled out of control to above 10%, luckily this "bug fix" is here to restore order in the world of Terrancraft. Do people honestly not understand why Zs might be pissed off? our race has had fundamental problems since beta, goes through countless nerfs, and anytime something pops up, it gets nerfed into oblivion and them some, while the moment a T complains about something, a patch comes out the next day -.- it IS a slap in the face.. afk pirating civ, i wish i had done the same with sc2 but when you've been waiting since 13 you feel generous.. | ||
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
One step forward, two steps back for Zerg. | ||
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Channel56k
United States413 Posts
I dont believe its anything blizzard has out for Zerg or what not, they naturally would like that all the races be balanced, I dont see a reason for thinking otherwise. However, they are either to big a company for information to effectively pass quickly or are simply not interested in asking more from their balance team. This nerf is not a product of anti-zerg sentiment, but of poor poor quality of work... It is just embarrassing that they would overlook this. If they intended to reduce the ultras splash radius against all units it would have appeared in 1.1, however it did not so this is clearly the result of just plain lazyness. Will we get a 1.1.1.1... who knows. Blizzard needs to pull a couple of their people off WoW and take a better loook at their balance team for SC2. They are not unable to judge the team by its performance like every other job that exists. | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
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FoxSpirit
Austria160 Posts
Idra might get a cardiac arrest of the rage from that. But seriously, even if it WAS unintended and now they "fixed" it, it's a very serious nerf to a unit that was considered fine beforehand. To a race already struggling. Might try Toss until they fix that, what am I supposed to get now with Ultra splash dps down by at least 30%?? | ||
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ThirdStorm
21 Posts
This was a stupid fix. I see nothing wrong with this. People who work more should be reward more. | ||
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DTown
United States428 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:11 konicki wrote: Blizzard needs to pull a couple of their people off WoW and take a better loook at their balance team for SC2. They are not unable to judge the team by its performance like every other job that exists. Unfortunately for us, SC2 is not a source of recurring revenue for Blizzard, while WoW most certainly is. Blizzard will not be sacing their WoW team for the benefit of SC2. This is why part of me wants them to introduce micro-transaction into SC2. Given Acti-Blizz Corporation's size and business model, I'm starting to think a recurring revenue stream from SC2 would prompt them to care more about the game's success. On September 29 2010 03:13 Jaeger wrote: isn't the natural end game tech broodlords? Until the Terran builds a few Vikings, yep. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:13 Jaeger wrote: Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras? Thors do high damage vs single targets which makes them ideally suited for taking on high health high armor targets (i.e. ultralisks). Cost is the same and it takes a very long time to mass thors as they have to be built is series where as ultras can be built in parallel. If you scout mass thor, or mech as a whole isn't the natural end game tech broodlords? No, Broodlords are easily shut down by just a handful of vikings - the endgame answer to mech was ultras. Ultras being able to go toe to toe vs Thor was always Zerg's saving grace in T3, but now, not as such. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras Did u know, that this is just another buff to terran who could deal with Ultras very well (in a balanced state)... why would u buff sth, that is balanced. One of the only things, that were balanced was the Ultra vs Thor dynamic. Even if I think, that Thors with 250 mm Cannons and proper micro beat them always. Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras? Doesnt work really, because the terran will just make a Viking swap and will kill Broodlords pretty easy, because they have such a ridicoulos range, that its nearly impossible to defend against them, no matter what micro u have. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
 Hopefully they re-patch it so it works properly. (That or a damage buff at least) | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
"The splash damage was propagating not the exact way. Now it works correctly. The damage is the same except against very large units. The chances that this will change the course of a battle are very slim, to be honest." I think I translated it correctly, sorry for my bad english but since I didn't see any blue post about this in the EU forum (not sure about America) I wanted to share it with u. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:13 Jaeger wrote: Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras? Thors do high damage vs single targets which makes them ideally suited for taking on high health high armor targets (i.e. ultralisks). Cost is the same and it takes a very long time to mass thors as they have to be built is series where as ultras can be built in parallel. If you scout mass thor, or mech as a whole isn't the natural end game tech broodlords? Let me get this straight first. After a critical mass of say, 6 thors. Zerg has basically nothing that can combat it effectively on the ground OR air. Thors are great against mutalisks, banelings, hydra's, infestors. Even the roach cant stand up to them once they get repaired backup or some more thor buddies. Basically zerg has to wait until Tier 3, and have PLENTY of upgrades to their ultralisk defense before they can even imagine killing a good thor blob. Now with thors being just about cost effective against ultralisks, the only counter is broodlords. What does this mean? Terran goes mass thor, can expect broodlords, adds vikings to the mix. Now what choices does zerg have left? Edit- I don't want to seem like a whiny zerg player. But Ultras way back in beta are actually better than they are now. And back then, without ultra speed, they were pretty bad too. I just want a neural parasite fix that will make it viable again, then zerg can start stopping big midgame pushes in the midgame rather than in the late-late game. | ||
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Zips
United States146 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:24 Chaosvuistje wrote: Let me get this straight first. After a critical mass of say, 6 thors. Zerg has basically nothing that can combat it effectively on the ground OR air. Thors are great against mutalisks, banelings, hydra's, infestors. Even the roach cant stand up to them once they get repaired backup or some more thor buddies. Basically zerg has to wait until Tier 3, and have PLENTY of upgrades to their ultralisk defense before they can even imagine killing a good thor blob. Now with thors being just about cost effective against ultralisks, the only counter is broodlords. What does this mean? Terran goes mass thor, can expect broodlords, adds vikings to the mix. Now what choices does zerg have left? I've found hydralisks to be pretty effective v thors.. Problem is, you have to make hydralisks for this to work  | ||
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:28 Zips wrote: I've found hydralisks to be pretty effective v thors.. Problem is, you have to make hydralisks for this to work Hydralisks stink in ZvT for a very simple reason. Marines are costeffective against them, Tanks are cost effective against them, Hellions are cost effective against them. I don't make hydralisks most of the time ZvT unless they decide to go heavy heavy viking or banshee. They are just easily countered by just about any composition. Hydra's being effective against just thors is all fine and dandy. The only problem is that thors never come alone. Yes, Ultralisks in vast numbers were really good against mech. And the planetary fortress bug was a slight issue disallowing terran players to repair it. But they had no reason to kill the entire balance surrounding the ultralisk attacking units. They could have easily just used a different formula when attacking buildings. They had done it before with the head butt attack. It wouldn't be that hard to use that code and modify it. | ||
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Atticus.axl
United States456 Posts
In SC, as well as Broodwar, there was a very specific reason the Ultralisk was a solid and viable unit against both T and P. It was not definitely not splash damage, as the Ultra would only ever hit a single target. The reason the Ultralisk was good was that it had survivability. With the Ultralisk in SC2 able to evaporate in 2 seconds to nearly every unit composition, it is almost detrimental to tech to them, much less produce them. Splash damage is not the answer here. Making the Ultralisk a unit that can take the hits from the front line, and let the lings and everything else get in close unharmed, would not only make it a worthwhile unit, but would help bring that "swarmy" feeling back to the zerg. I realize there are a hundred other factors that play into this, (i.e., map size, unit size, chokes, ability to surround etc...) but I'm trying to be concise. Edit: added an "and" | ||
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