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On September 29 2010 02:18 eloist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 02:13 Ndugu wrote:
Why is it only players with SCVs saying stuff like this?
Sure, I don't disagree in principle, but Blizzard having the audacity to nerf Zerg at the moment is ridiculous. Give it a different building attack that does normal AoE, or make this change as part of a rebalance of Zerg that buffs other things in compensation.
Nerfing the weakest race is silly. Only Death Knights-- excuse me-- Terran, will have much reason to see it differently. I would consider the previous behavior game breaking if it gets to the point where Ultras are out though. Disregarding whether or not the race is strong or weak as a whole. I think tanks were game breaking in a similar way and they got fixed and it was good. Not gonna lie though, I am happy because I suck at tank vs. tank.
A Protoss army with HTs would do basically the same against a PF and the sourrounding workers. It's not gamebreaking so far.
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So a patch is going out right now... is this a fix to 1.1.1? Or is this 1.1.1?
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On September 29 2010 02:20 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 02:19 Treemonkeys wrote:On September 29 2010 02:08 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 02:03 ToastieNL wrote:On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.
Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash. Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great. Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xCzNd.png) Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work. Like this? It's in the OP. On September 29 2010 02:04 Numy wrote:On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:
Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work. I'm slightly confused. There are screenshots of various units in the OP. On. The. PF. When. SCVs. Repair. It. The splash effect on a line of units in front of the ultra is evident in those screenshots yes. And the pokeball picture tells me the splash will work best only on units that are meleeing the ultra. How does the splash effect the scvs that are in a circular formation around the planetary fortress? Do the ultras kill the scvs next to it? In front only? How many ultras does it take to take a PF down now? No, I don't expect people to do this for me - I'm only putting the question out now while I'm at work. If I don't see it mocked up, then I'll just do it when I get home and post it up here. If you watch one of afruitdealer's games, the 3rd game against terran where he wins with ultras, I'm pretty sure the missile turrets behind the PF get taken out by cleave. I'm not talking about pre-hotfix. We have a ton of videos on that.
A patch is not a hot fix. Things in SC cannot be hot fixed, they must be patched. A hot fix is a change which is enacted without a server shutdown and without people having to change client side game data. All game data in SC2 is client side.
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This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10.
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On September 29 2010 02:39 Crushgroove wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 02:20 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 02:19 Treemonkeys wrote:On September 29 2010 02:08 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 02:03 ToastieNL wrote:On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.
Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash. Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great. Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate. Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work. Like this? It's in the OP. On September 29 2010 02:04 Numy wrote:On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:
Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work. I'm slightly confused. There are screenshots of various units in the OP. On. The. PF. When. SCVs. Repair. It. The splash effect on a line of units in front of the ultra is evident in those screenshots yes. And the pokeball picture tells me the splash will work best only on units that are meleeing the ultra. How does the splash effect the scvs that are in a circular formation around the planetary fortress? Do the ultras kill the scvs next to it? In front only? How many ultras does it take to take a PF down now? No, I don't expect people to do this for me - I'm only putting the question out now while I'm at work. If I don't see it mocked up, then I'll just do it when I get home and post it up here. If you watch one of afruitdealer's games, the 3rd game against terran where he wins with ultras, I'm pretty sure the missile turrets behind the PF get taken out by cleave. I'm not talking about pre-hotfix. We have a ton of videos on that. A patch is not a hot fix. Things in SC cannot be hot fixed, they must be patched. A hot fix is a change which is enacted without a server shutdown and without people having to change client side game data. All game data in SC2 is client side.
Holy shit man, are you really going to keep posting that every time someone mentions the word hot-fix or patch? Chillax on your semantics bro.
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On September 29 2010 01:16 guitarizt wrote:
Just played a zvt on steppes where I had more resources and terran didn't harass me at all. I was 3 base to 2 base and he came and a-moved me on creep and I attacked about when his tanks were starting to siege. I had about 8 ultras and 6 roaches against about 7 tanks, 4 thors, and 4-5 marauders and I got absolutely raped. I think he still had 4 tanks and 3 thors leftover. I guess it's back to going muta ling? Zerg seems impossible against terran atm I can't wait to see what cool does in the gsl.
well he will lose twice and get place 4
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On September 29 2010 02:40 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10.
Just like how a PF can be repaired by 10 SCVs without being taken down while being attacked by a 100 food army, right? Looks realistic and practical. No?
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On September 29 2010 02:40 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10.
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On September 29 2010 02:40 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10.
Again, you are talking about realism in a game with gigantic spacebug that conquer the galaxy, aliens that look like robots and humans who sit in transformers.
Do you realy wanna throw in the realism card?
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It's always two steps backwards and one forward with Blizzard these days. God forbid zerg have something that can be viewed as OP.
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On September 29 2010 02:44 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 02:40 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10. Again, you are talking about realism in a game with gigantic spacebug that conquer the galaxy, aliens that look like robots and humans who sit in transformers. Do you realy wanna throw in the realism card?
Also, realism != balance, this severely affects balance ( I agree the PF was a bug, but that affected balance much less than this). If they want to change the way ultra splash works, but the ultra needs a buff in some other way to compensate for it.
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I agree that the ultralisk mechanic was broken, and the way it worked was illogical, but the last thing zerg needs right now is a nerf.
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Hmm...
Apparently the whole Thor vs Ultralisk was relying on unintentional bug all the way since some beta versions. Did it take the PF splash area to notice the bug or why are they removing the bug now that the whole Thor vs Ultra and Ultras in general are balanced around it? Not very professional looking approach by Blizz if you ask me.
Basically I'm fine with the splash size getting standardized, it seems reasonable. Having huge units around is supposed to help you minimize the splash damage, not amplify it further. However, now they've build the whole balance on the bad ground and only now they start thinking about changing the foundations.
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+2 thors are going to be ridiculous against ultra now..
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On September 29 2010 02:42 Art_of_Kill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 01:16 guitarizt wrote:
Just played a zvt on steppes where I had more resources and terran didn't harass me at all. I was 3 base to 2 base and he came and a-moved me on creep and I attacked about when his tanks were starting to siege. I had about 8 ultras and 6 roaches against about 7 tanks, 4 thors, and 4-5 marauders and I got absolutely raped. I think he still had 4 tanks and 3 thors leftover. I guess it's back to going muta ling? Zerg seems impossible against terran atm I can't wait to see what cool does in the gsl. well he will lose twice and get place 4
If he loses people will say it's normal because it's unbalanced.
If he wins people will say he's the best player in the world.
That's the world of Zerg right now.
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On September 29 2010 02:40 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
This looks more realistic anyways and is probably more practical. You want your ultralisks hitting things that are like 2 full ultralisk lengths away from the unit? It doesnt make sense. Sure it's a nerf but this seems a lot closer to what shud actually be happening with the unit. U shudnt be able to hit 6 thors with ur tusks anyways, but when fighting marines u shud be able to hit 9-10.
We are ok with that being "realistically" but then configure Ultra so its damage output is same as it was.
With splash range being like 2 full Ultras (as you say) they were kind of balanced, right? So now, if you nerf their range, then buff their damage or something.
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I'm fine with the cleave mechanic, I think it's fair.
But ultras are too big and it's impossible to kill mass thor + hellion.
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Baa?21248 Posts
ZvT winrates spiraled out of control to above 10%, luckily this "bug fix" is here to restore order in the world of Terrancraft.
Do people honestly not understand why Zs might be pissed off? our race has had fundamental problems since beta, goes through countless nerfs, and anytime something pops up, it gets nerfed into oblivion and them some, while the moment a T complains about something, a patch comes out the next day -.-
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You want to talk about realism?
How about the premise that (1) innumerable hordes of vicious space aliens sharing a common directive and (2) technologically advanced and psychically skilled aliens capable of manipulating the fabric of spacetime...
...get absolutely roflstomped by a bunch of humans on drugs?
As an aside, I'm kind of surprised by Blizzard generally reducing ultralisk splash vs. everything when it was pretty clear that the so called "bug" had to do with building size.
As an irrational QQing Z player, I feel like nerfing Z a few days after a patch supposed to help balance out parts of the game is sort of a slap in the face. Yes, ultralisks probably needed a tweak, but so do a bunch of T/P mechanics. The fact that apparently ultralisk splash vs. UNITS needed an immediate change but things like, you know, stimmed marauders, thors, auto-repair, [insert OP whining here] didn't is pretty absurd IMO.
But hey, it'll be done soon.
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are you sure that this is correct i mean looking at your images it seems that the splash damage is infact working correctly... the top one shows an ultra thats like 1 and 1/2 ultras in length away from the attacking ultra taking splash damage... question mark?? how is that intended? lol the one post patch looks a LOT more reasonable and if you micro thors out of splash damage i'd be fine with that.... i mean zerg can magic box, "micro mutas" to avoid thor splash damage... seems fair to me
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dIwUm.jpg<br>)
