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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:40 Chaosvuistje wrote: Hydra's being effective against just thors is all fine and dandy. The only problem is that thors never come alone. Except hydras are fucking awful vs thors. 4 hydras won't even make a dent in one, and that's already 100 minerals more. | ||
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FoxSpirit
Austria160 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:22 Goliathsorrow wrote: Sorry if I missed anything because I didn't ready all the pages here but in the italian forum a blue post stated that this is intended because: "The splash damage was propagating not the exact way. Now it works correctly. The damage is the same except against very large units. The chances that this will change the course of a battle are very slim, to be honest." I think I translated it correctly, sorry for my bad english but since I didn't see any blue post about this in the EU forum (not sure about America) I wanted to share it with u. This is a LIE. http://imgur.com/D6LKD.jpg And note that here the thors are toe to toe, even the slightest space completely negates the splash. And marines... yeah, wtf. | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:11 FoxSpirit wrote: This is a LIE. http://imgur.com/D6LKD.jpg And note that here the thors are toe to toe, even the slightest space completely negates the splash. And marines... yeah, wtf. I agree with u but that's what Blizzard thinks apparently. | ||
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Winter_mute
Germany40 Posts
If you had the option to build one of the following two units instead of ultras: A) Thorlisk: Stats like a thor, can not attack air. B)Collossolisk Stats like a collossus, can not cliffwalk plating upgrade has been replaced with 250mm cannon / collossus range. Would you do it? I would take these crippled terran/protoss units without hesitation. Of course the units are also balanced with the macro mechanics of their respective race and there is the gras-is-greener-on-the-other-side-syndrome, but I am quite frustrated with ultras and everytime I use them I have the feeling that cost/efficiency-wise, I would have had much much better success with any other zerg unit. | ||
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:11 FoxSpirit wrote: This is a LIE. http://imgur.com/D6LKD.jpg And note that here the thors are toe to toe, even the slightest space completely negates the splash. And marines... yeah, wtf. Blizzard has to see this. Its such a a huge game breaking difference.. I m disgusted that yet another buff ends up being a sick disadvantage for the zergs. I mean there is no effective counter to hellion/thor anymore. And that is a very very very strong build we saw a lot of good players already doing prepatch.. Sjow for example plays this build 100% of the time i see him playing vs zerg. I literally didnt see him loose 1 game with that build prepatch. I cant imagine how strong it is now. | ||
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simplytemeka
Singapore3 Posts
Seldom see ultras in a ZvT game guess that chance just got reduced further =( Will skip ultras against thors for my patch 1.1.1 games. Thanks for the post =D | ||
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pechkin
158 Posts
Also how come users are able to test their patch in a matter of hours while blizz isn't? FU blizz! | ||
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ffdestiny
United States773 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:03 Atticus.axl wrote: Alright, as a zerg that started playing in 1999, I'll throw in my old-timer thoughts. Also, before I begin, I would take it as a kindness if you did not immediately dismiss the content simply because SC2 is a "different game." In SC, as well as Broodwar, there was a very specific reason the Ultralisk was a solid and viable unit against both T and P. It was not definitely not splash damage, as the Ultra would only ever hit a single target. The reason the Ultralisk was good was that it had survivability. With the Ultralisk in SC2 able to evaporate in 2 seconds to nearly every unit composition, it is almost detrimental to tech to them, much less produce them. Splash damage is not the answer here. Making the Ultralisk a unit that can take the hits from the front line, and let the lings and everything else get in close unharmed, would not only make it a worthwhile unit, but would help bring that "swarmy" feeling back to the zerg. I realize there are a hundred other factors that play into this, (i.e., map size, unit size, chokes, ability to surround etc...) but I'm trying to be concise. Edit: added an "and" The SC2 ultralisk has 100 more hitpoints than the SC:BW unit, and does 15 (+5 damage to armored), while the SC:BW unit did 20. Although the SC:BW ultralisk built 15 seconds faster and was 100 minerals cheaper; though the SC2 ultralisk has a cleave attack and costs 2 more supply than the BW version. Of course this comparison is moot, considering both are different games within their own respect. If anything, Blizzard may have to look at the survivability of the ultra, and a slight upgrade to their HP could bring the unit in line more with SC2; remember though, in SC:BW Terran had science vessels with irradiate that would bring an ultra's HP down to low levels (and also spread around if not handled properly). SC2 Ultra: Cleave damage and +15 base damage (20 to armored) -100 less HP +15 seconds increased build time +100 more minerals to train +2 more supply SC:BW Ultra No cleave damage 20 base damage +100 more HP -15 seconds decreased build time -100 fewer minerals to train -2 supply What made the BW ultralisk appealing was its cost:survivability ratio, and that is what SC2 essentially lacks at the moment. Perhaps adjust the HP, supply, build time or cost accordingly (I would go with build time, decrease it to allow for a few more ultras, which equals a better cost:survivability ratio, but maintains the same macro mechanics in SC2). | ||
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JJdawes
United States6 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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JJdawes
United States6 Posts
On September 29 2010 03:13 Jaeger wrote: Doesn't it make sense for thors to beat ultras? Thors do high damage vs single targets which makes them ideally suited for taking on high health high armor targets (i.e. ultralisks). Cost is the same and it takes a very long time to mass thors as they have to be built is series where as ultras can be built in parallel. If you scout mass thor, or mech as a whole isn't the natural end game tech broodlords? Wait so the Thor that COST the same as the ultra should be able to own it, and attack air at 10 range with AoE, while being repaired lol.... Are you kidding me? tell me please what Z is supposed to do now? I would love to hear this coming from a Terran or Protoss player I need the laughs now since Z is still getting nerfed and it's the worse race in the game. edit: I still find it amazing that no one thinks the Thor should cost more considering its the equivalent of the collsi and the ultra but is obv much better all around... | ||
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Dryzt
Canada118 Posts
as a side note, if being realistic is worth anything in this game then it would make sense that the splash would deal 100% damage to all units because i mean, the tusk either hits you or it doesn't all or nothing, whereas the farther from an explosion you are the less powerful cause its the shockwave that gets you. I would accept this nerf if splash damage changed to be 100% | ||
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:34 FabledIntegral wrote: lol so wtf is going to beat Thor Viking lategame? you're supposed to use nydus. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:36 JJdawes wrote: Wait so the Thor that COST the same as the ultra should be able to own it, and attack air at 10 range with AoE, while being repaired lol.... Are you kidding me? tell me please what Z is supposed to do now? I would love to hear this coming from a Terran or Protoss player I need the laughs now since Z is still getting nerfed and it's the worse race in the game. Don't forget it comes out like, way faster. | ||
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anotherone
90 Posts
It was just a bug, live with it or quit SC2. | ||
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greendestiny
Bosnia-Herzegovina114 Posts
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JJdawes
United States6 Posts
On September 29 2010 04:39 JinDesu wrote: Don't forget it comes out like, way faster. lol yeah there has been so many games ive lost waiting on the 70sec build time to complete... Everything about Z is just sad. | ||
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CrazedManiac
40 Posts
I love topics like this, no matter what people say you are 100% right or ban. It was just a bug, live with it or quit SC2. FFS. The reason Z players are up in arms is that the "bug" fix also nerfed ultra splash against massive units to well below what it used to be. Now ultralisks are SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EFFECTIVE AGAINST UNITS LIKE THORS than they used to be. This isn't just about the bloody PF. /rage. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
What I find disturbing is that blizz just throws up a significant nerf just like that. I really though that the ultrabug was ridiculous and couldn't understand how some people could deny it. Same thing here, how can they nerf that in a bug fix patch ? Don't they test anything ? Zerg needs some buffs, a new unit or a major new thing imo already, and they put a nerf ? I'm really stunned. I hope they'll aknowledge it's a bug and rerefix it. | ||
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