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Ultralisk bug/issue with patch 1.1.1 - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
September 28 2010 16:57 GMT
#161
This makes me want to cry. I guess I will be going broodlords in every matchup
I'm a Crab made of men.
Piousflea
Profile Joined February 2010
United States259 Posts
September 28 2010 16:58 GMT
#162
Blizzard simply changed the splash radius formula from:
1.1.0) Radius = 2 + (enemy unit radius)
to:
1.1.1) Radius = 2

This means that the Ultra splash radius is significantly smaller regardless of what unit they are hitting. It's simply a more dramatic nerf for very large units like Thors or other ultras.

The logical hotfix would be to change it to Radius 2.5 or something.
Seek, behold, and reveal the truth
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 28 2010 16:58 GMT
#163
On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.

Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash.


Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great.

Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate.

[image loading]


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.
Yargh
Adeeler
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom764 Posts
September 28 2010 17:00 GMT
#164
I don't know how to show the pre-hotfix, pre patch, and patch differences. Ppl that know better can try in one of the unit testing maps I guess.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 28 2010 17:02 GMT
#165
On September 29 2010 02:00 Adeeler wrote:
I don't know how to show the pre-hotfix, pre patch, and patch differences. Ppl that know better can try in one of the unit testing maps I guess.


If you want to do it, just do exactly what you did and take a screenshot. We don't need to see the pre-hotfix - there's tons of videos on that. We don't really need to see the pre-patch either, since that was the ram attack.

In effect - if the hotfix makes it so that the PF can be repaired with negligible effect to the scvs despite the ultras attacking, then that makes it worse than pre-patch.
Yargh
theBullFrog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States515 Posts
September 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#166
I'm hoping for no patch before mlg, or if they see this issue and fix it before mlg.
thebullfrog
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
September 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#167
On September 29 2010 01:57 Treemonkeys wrote:
How bad is it in practice now?? Is it even worth it to try using ultras vs. thors now? Is it worth it to build ultras at all?


I'd mess around in unit tester to make sure but I've already seen enough to not use ultras against terran until it's fixed. It feels like I'm playing with handicap health on.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
September 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#168
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.

Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash.


Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great.

Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate.

[image loading]


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.

[image loading]


Like this? It's in the OP.
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
dvide
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom287 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 17:05:27
September 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#169
On September 29 2010 01:38 Grond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 00:58 dvide wrote:
On September 29 2010 00:43 theSAiNT wrote:
Well, seems like the first blue post addressing this issue suggest that it is 'working as intended'.

As long as no official statement is published by us, I can only say that we should refer to the Ultralisk behaviour as game mechanics, not as a bug.


http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/656096468

Maybe they didn't want to include a nerf to the weakest race so they snuck it in as a 'bugfix'.

There's no conspiracy here. This was a bugfix patch and not a balance patch, and they did fix the bug as was their intention to do so. The fact that the bug also had some balance implications is not something they are going to consider too heavily during the bugfix patch, but they are probably going to examine it in more detail for future balance patches and possibly adjust the new radius accordingly. This sort of bureaucracy is not necessarily brilliant for us, but I don't imagine it was indented as a sneaky malicious way to nerf the zerg.



Wrong on all counts. There never was a bug. Blizzard removed the Ram attack which gave Ultralisks a large splash radius vs very large units. They didn't patch a bug they changed the formula in 2 ways, both nerfs not bug fixes. In addition to the 1.1 damage nerf that makes 3 nerfs to the Ultra and 0 bug fixes.

Semantics. It's considered a bug because the formula had an unintended & absurd side effect vs very large units and buildings. Changing the formula is the way they implemented the bugfix, and this was an intended change. But a bugfix and a nerf are not mutually exclusive things, as a bugfix can obviously have a nerfing effect. Consider if marine's bunny hopping was bugfixed in natural selection, or muta stacking was bugfixed in broodwar. So this is both a nerf and a bugfix. My only point is that it was neither incompetence nor malicious, but just a somewhat arbitrary guesstimate at balance using a new formula, and this allowed them to get the bugfix patch out today instead of next week or next month. The balance will probably be looked at more thoughtfully during balance patches, but this was not one of them.
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
September 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#170
so.... don't use thors against ultras?
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#171
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.


I'm slightly confused. There are screenshots of various units in the OP.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#172
Uhh...didn't they explicitly change all splash to NOT work like this during beta?

I'd be fine with ultras going back this way, so long as it applies to other splash units as well.
Moderator
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
September 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#173
this isnt the hugest deal in the world but i just can't figure out why blizz thinks Zerg needs NERFS at this point.
Better than Pokebunny
SaturnAttack
Profile Joined September 2010
United States125 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 17:05:48
September 28 2010 17:05 GMT
#174
Blizzard needs need better QA for sure, or better yet, some kind of explanation to these sort of things so we don't have the community putting on tinfoil hats over mysterious conspiracies or needing us to draw pokeballs and unit testers to figure this stuff out. Transparency is needed badly.
btlyger
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States470 Posts
September 28 2010 17:06 GMT
#175
The real issue the patch caused was with planetary fortresses, to nerf ultra cleave this much I think is not what they intended and hopefully they will fix it.

If they don't, this really scares me for late game.
"Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined." Learn how to post: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
xs101
Profile Joined June 2010
Romania86 Posts
September 28 2010 17:07 GMT
#176
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/656096569

the ultralisk bug thread on bnet is getting bigger and bigger, so please go ahead and post so they give us a thorough answer.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 28 2010 17:08 GMT
#177
On September 29 2010 02:03 ToastieNL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.

Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash.


Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great.

Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate.

[image loading]


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.

[image loading]


Like this? It's in the OP.


On September 29 2010 02:04 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.


I'm slightly confused. There are screenshots of various units in the OP.


On. The. PF. When. SCVs. Repair. It.

The splash effect on a line of units in front of the ultra is evident in those screenshots yes. And the pokeball picture tells me the splash will work best only on units that are meleeing the ultra.

How does the splash effect the scvs that are in a circular formation around the planetary fortress? Do the ultras kill the scvs next to it? In front only? How many ultras does it take to take a PF down now?

No, I don't expect people to do this for me - I'm only putting the question out now while I'm at work. If I don't see it mocked up, then I'll just do it when I get home and post it up here.
Yargh
eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 17:11:11
September 28 2010 17:09 GMT
#178
I might be the only one here but just looking at these screenshots, the pre-patch behavior seems completely unreasonable.

An unintroduced player would never expect that by looking at the units involved and concerning Thors, micro would do very little here considering how easily they get in the way of each other.

If Ultras are not good enough due to this change then they need to be fixed in a different way because the pre-patch behavior is ridiculous and unpredictable, in other words, not good game design.

It makes sense for Ultras to use different splash semantics than, say, tanks. One is hitting from the front with a melee attack. The other is hitting smack in the middle from above with a big explosion.
theqat
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States2856 Posts
September 28 2010 17:11 GMT
#179
On September 29 2010 02:08 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 02:03 ToastieNL wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:51 dcemuser wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:50 JinDesu wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:49 Adeeler wrote:
I attacked a PF today and purposely positioned my ultras on his scvs that were repairing thinking that the scvs would die from the ultras nerfed splash i.e. my microing to keep my ultra next to the scvs would kill them while attack the PF and the scvs took next to no dmg regardless of being next to/touching my ultra's.

Ultra splash seems worse then before the splash bugs splash.


Can you make a video? Or screenshots? That'd be great.

Reposting this image because it is incredibly well done and mostly accurate.

[image loading]


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.

[image loading]


Like this? It's in the OP.


Show nested quote +
On September 29 2010 02:04 Numy wrote:
On September 29 2010 01:58 JinDesu wrote:


Well yes - the pokeballs were lovely, but I was hoping he'd do the screenshots of the actual game so people who are more likely to nitpick will not do so. If no one does it, then I will do it when I get home from work.


I'm slightly confused. There are screenshots of various units in the OP.


On. The. PF. When. SCVs. Repair. It.

The splash effect on a line of units in front of the ultra is evident in those screenshots yes. And the pokeball picture tells me the splash will work best only on units that are meleeing the ultra.

How does the splash effect the scvs that are in a circular formation around the planetary fortress? Do the ultras kill the scvs next to it? In front only? How many ultras does it take to take a PF down now?




We're back to square one, ultras are ineffective against PF/SCV
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
September 28 2010 17:13 GMT
#180
On September 29 2010 02:09 eloist wrote:
I might be the only one here but just looking at these screenshots, the pre-patch behavior seems completely unreasonable.

An unintroduced player would never expect that by looking at the units involved and concerning Thors, micro would do very little here considering how easily they get in the way of each other.

If Ultras are not good enough due to this change then they need to be fixed in a different way because the pre-patch behavior is ridiculous and unpredictable, in other words, not good game design.

It makes sense for Ultras to use different splash semantics than, say, tanks. One is hitting from the front with a melee attack. The other is hitting smack in the middle from above with a big explosion.


But nerfing them for months before you actually fix them is not the way to go about fixing a problem.
I'm a Crab made of men.
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