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[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
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obsid
Profile Joined November 2008
United States389 Posts
September 19 2010 05:37 GMT
#981
its amazing how much of an effect this has on the early game build. I know I usualy get an extra drone out because of the extra minerals collected before getting pool, and still be even in time with what i would normaly do. 1 extra drone may not sound like much, but it adds up quickly that early.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 07:13:40
September 19 2010 07:12 GMT
#982
I don`t see why it should be patched. The worker rally point helps you lazy noobs tremendously already, and this is NOT gamebreaking at all for the majority of sc2 players. Those who whine about it make too much of a big deal of something that will barely effect their current level of play.
Spaceball
Profile Joined November 2007
United States213 Posts
September 19 2010 07:22 GMT
#983
I didn't like this when I first heard about it but after trying it a lot I really hope they keep it in the game. It isn't gamebreaking by any means, but it does give you a little extra boost at the beginning of the game and really helps smooth out the edges in my builds.
Easy772
Profile Joined May 2010
374 Posts
September 19 2010 07:47 GMT
#984
I hope they take this out.. APM should be ACTUAL APM spent on managing battles/harassing and keeping up with troop production/tech primarily, while simultaneously keeping up with worker production and supply secondary. I liken it to when I used to play DotA.. I loved the days when Ganking/ Team fight executions took priority over farming and last hit mechanics. Nowadays it seems someones a 'beast' in HoN or DotA because they can farm well and have good last hitting 'skillz'. I hated that shit.. They turned the game into a farming fest.. Little tricks like this would make the game more challenging to master, but it would definitely be less fun and a lot less bad ass. Find a way to make the game more challenging to master in a way that makes it harder to decide what composition to get, more demanding micro, harder to master macro ( like the Zergs).. Not this please.
"The best way to improve is to play one matchup on one map doing one strategy.. if you are good at one strategy you are a good player, if you are okay at many strategies you are an okay player at best" -Day[9] 181
Hypatio
Profile Joined September 2010
549 Posts
September 19 2010 10:17 GMT
#985
APM should be ACTUAL APM spent on managing battles/harassing and keeping up with troop production/tech primarily, while simultaneously keeping up with worker production and supply secondary.

This will never be true.
LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 13:29:35
September 19 2010 13:28 GMT
#986
Can't all the lazy people just play with people who are also lazy? We could even put them in their own league, maybe call it something like... i dunno... gold league? Then if you don't want to spend the APM to get 7% income bonus in the beginning you don't have to! And you don't have to play against people using this feature either!

Seriously, I can't believe people are arguing for an "easier" game. I want to be impressed by the people who are way better than me at this game. I don't want to be able to compete with pros practicing 8 hours a day when I don't even have time to play every day consistently. Why would we want this?

Great find OP, I hope this stays in. I'll probably never be able to do it very well, but I'm glad it's here.
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
September 19 2010 13:49 GMT
#987
On September 19 2010 22:28 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Can't all the lazy people just play with people who are also lazy? We could even put them in their own league, maybe call it something like... i dunno... gold league? Then if you don't want to spend the APM to get 7% income bonus in the beginning you don't have to! And you don't have to play against people using this feature either!

Seriously, I can't believe people are arguing for an "easier" game. I want to be impressed by the people who are way better than me at this game. I don't want to be able to compete with pros practicing 8 hours a day when I don't even have time to play every day consistently. Why would we want this?

Great find OP, I hope this stays in. I'll probably never be able to do it very well, but I'm glad it's here.

So arbitrary APM is fun to watch? Wow he's pro because he can improve his income by 7%! I want to be just like him!

This is what happens when everyone tries to be hardcore and call this game easy. Guess what, this game isn't easy at all because I don't see you macroing/microing perfectly even with MBS/automining and I don't see the pros doing so either. APM should be about doing things that are involved with strategy and tactics not arbitrary shit like making your workers return cargo faster. You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",
Moktira is da bomb
telfire
Profile Joined May 2010
United States415 Posts
September 19 2010 14:24 GMT
#988
On September 19 2010 22:49 dcberkeley wrote:
You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",


Don't be silly. This is a mechanic that gives you something to do during the part of the game where you don't have anything else to do. There is nothing more strategic at that point in the game than mining more minerals than your opponent.
howerpower
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States619 Posts
September 19 2010 18:26 GMT
#989
On September 19 2010 16:47 Easy772 wrote:
Nowadays it seems someones a 'beast' in HoN or DotA because they can farm well and have good last hitting 'skillz'. I hated that shit...


GASP, you mean people took advantage of mechanics that are built into the game? for shame...
Easy772
Profile Joined May 2010
374 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 00:24:49
September 20 2010 00:22 GMT
#990
On September 20 2010 03:26 howerpower wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 16:47 Easy772 wrote:
Nowadays it seems someones a 'beast' in HoN or DotA because they can farm well and have good last hitting 'skillz'. I hated that shit...


GASP, you mean people took advantage of mechanics that are built into the game? for shame...


Umm no, because the developers added an escape mechanisms on almost every character, improved the rewards for last hitting. Making games drag out and become farming "last hit" fests.. A lot of the top players at the time like Jolie and Vigoss stated that it made the game tedious and i agree...

Edit: And now i don't know anyone who still enjoys DotA
"The best way to improve is to play one matchup on one map doing one strategy.. if you are good at one strategy you are a good player, if you are okay at many strategies you are an okay player at best" -Day[9] 181
MaYuu
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Sweden516 Posts
September 20 2010 00:47 GMT
#991
On September 19 2010 22:49 dcberkeley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 22:28 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Can't all the lazy people just play with people who are also lazy? We could even put them in their own league, maybe call it something like... i dunno... gold league? Then if you don't want to spend the APM to get 7% income bonus in the beginning you don't have to! And you don't have to play against people using this feature either!

Seriously, I can't believe people are arguing for an "easier" game. I want to be impressed by the people who are way better than me at this game. I don't want to be able to compete with pros practicing 8 hours a day when I don't even have time to play every day consistently. Why would we want this?

Great find OP, I hope this stays in. I'll probably never be able to do it very well, but I'm glad it's here.

So arbitrary APM is fun to watch? Wow he's pro because he can improve his income by 7%! I want to be just like him!

This is what happens when everyone tries to be hardcore and call this game easy. Guess what, this game isn't easy at all because I don't see you macroing/microing perfectly even with MBS/automining and I don't see the pros doing so either. APM should be about doing things that are involved with strategy and tactics not arbitrary shit like making your workers return cargo faster. You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",


I'm glad it's not up to you how it should or should not be then. Don't be such a turd-face
ehh`?
DigitalD[562]
Profile Joined April 2010
United States80 Posts
September 21 2010 00:55 GMT
#992
Sockfolding has not been seen, in any high-level competitive play, to create an unfair advantage for any race. The APM and mental focus required to effectively utilize this technique is near impossible even among expert players after the first 5 minutes. Having a few extra minerals doesn't mean a damn thing if your first scouting worker gets killed, or you miss a supply depot, or get your Colossus sniped, etc. while your queuing up mineral patches. This technique is useless to over 95% of the players who can't turn their active APM into additional minerals and those minerals into more units and use those units to gain a slight advantage. Consolidating game mechanics to cap or lower the skill ceiling of capable players is a foolish thing to do. As I see it right now, this is not a bug/exploit and should remain in the game.
CurLy[]
Profile Joined August 2010
United States759 Posts
September 21 2010 01:32 GMT
#993
How come pros don't do this? I still see people spamming boxes and such.
Great pasta mom, very Korean. Even my crown leans to the side. Gangsta. --------->
Hyperion2010
Profile Joined April 2010
United States122 Posts
September 21 2010 01:49 GMT
#994
On September 21 2010 10:32 CurLy[] wrote:
How come pros don't do this? I still see people spamming boxes and such.


Because at that level the boxing warmup helps them play better than having a few extra minerals to cheese with.
My waifu for aiur!
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 21 2010 02:10 GMT
#995
On September 21 2010 10:49 Hyperion2010 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 10:32 CurLy[] wrote:
How come pros don't do this? I still see people spamming boxes and such.


Because at that level the boxing warmup helps them play better than having a few extra minerals to cheese with.

Or just old habits die hard..
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
September 21 2010 02:21 GMT
#996
On September 19 2010 23:24 telfire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 22:49 dcberkeley wrote:
You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",


Don't be silly. This is a mechanic that gives you something to do during the part of the game where you don't have anything else to do. There is nothing more strategic at that point in the game than mining more minerals than your opponent.

The main question should be though, what does it add to the game? In the end pros will start doing this very effectively while the game is starting. What this does: Forces players to do mindnumbing things to stay equal to their opponent... Not much else. I mean all this does is makes the early game end slightly faster while making the game a lot less fun, especially for people that train a lot(and therefor need to practise their build including the extra income from this every time). When both players are starting up, they might aswell just make a deal with each other "ok neither of us does this trick mkay?", since if both players do this, they will come out very close to equal(technically cheese would gain more from this since it takes longer to saturate all patches and devalue this).
Lucius2
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany548 Posts
September 21 2010 02:34 GMT
#997
i saw TLO doing it on the last gsl game on kulas
doffe
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden636 Posts
September 21 2010 02:42 GMT
#998
I dont get the problem people have with this mechanic. If you do not have the apm to do this then you probably do not have the skills to be a topplayer anyway hence you will face other people that as you do not use this mechanic. I myself try to do this but only manages to do so very very early game and it diminishes quite fast.

Concerning the proscene. Sure you can argue that you want the strategic geniuses to be the dominants at the top rather then the mechanic robots but I do actually prefer the mix of the two. I think that if you want to be at the top you should be forced not only to have great gamesense and micro, your apm and other gamemechanics do need to be top notch aswell so I do approve of the existance of this.

Once again, the people that does not have the apm to do this wont face people that do, atleast I find that highly unlikely.

And one more thing. I myself find it quite enjoyable to actually have something to focus on early game instead of just spamboxing workers, I find that action at my level quite silly actually. I dont know how many replays I see people starting of with their 2-300 apm just to have it dip to an avarage of 50 before the game is over. That a pro needs to warmup I can accept but not mr avarage, you actually need something to warm up to.
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
September 21 2010 02:42 GMT
#999
On September 20 2010 09:47 MaYuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 22:49 dcberkeley wrote:
On September 19 2010 22:28 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Can't all the lazy people just play with people who are also lazy? We could even put them in their own league, maybe call it something like... i dunno... gold league? Then if you don't want to spend the APM to get 7% income bonus in the beginning you don't have to! And you don't have to play against people using this feature either!

Seriously, I can't believe people are arguing for an "easier" game. I want to be impressed by the people who are way better than me at this game. I don't want to be able to compete with pros practicing 8 hours a day when I don't even have time to play every day consistently. Why would we want this?

Great find OP, I hope this stays in. I'll probably never be able to do it very well, but I'm glad it's here.

So arbitrary APM is fun to watch? Wow he's pro because he can improve his income by 7%! I want to be just like him!

This is what happens when everyone tries to be hardcore and call this game easy. Guess what, this game isn't easy at all because I don't see you macroing/microing perfectly even with MBS/automining and I don't see the pros doing so either. APM should be about doing things that are involved with strategy and tactics not arbitrary shit like making your workers return cargo faster. You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",


I'm glad it's not up to you how it should or should not be then. Don't be such a turd-face

So in other words, you're glad that you're not in an alternate universe where I'm the dev and I removed this feature so that the pro didn't end up beating you because he did something as arbitrary as making an SCV mine faster and make one more unit and beat you instead of actually outsmarting you.


On September 19 2010 23:24 telfire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 22:49 dcberkeley wrote:
You might as well add a mechanic where you have to get your scvs fed and bathed every 30 seconds to make this game "harder" and be more about "skill",


Don't be silly. This is a mechanic that gives you something to do during the part of the game where you don't have anything else to do. There is nothing more strategic at that point in the game than mining more minerals than your opponent.


I don't understand this. Why can't we bathe and feed our SCVs during this part when there's nothing strategic going on, then? It's a mechanic that gives you something to do during a part of the game where you don't have anything else to do.

Why should we even add a mechanic to keep us busy? If someone wins a game, I don't want it to be about being good at a meaningless APM sink. I want actual strategical/tactical thought.

Sure, 7% isn't a lot and won't make a difference and my example is ridiculous but this is the principle of the matter. Is it really a good idea that you could gain an advantage by spamming something that makes no sense and ordering units to do what they should already be doing?

By fixing this unoptimal mining AI, you are making the workers harvest at maximum capacity. If you feel that you should leave the AI unoptimized so there is room for you to use your APM to optimize, why not revert stalker move AI to BW dragoon move AI or go back to single building selection where the AI pathing is dumb and you must use your APM to maximize unit moving effectiveness, etc, etc. Where do you draw the line?
Moktira is da bomb
n3mo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States298 Posts
September 21 2010 02:48 GMT
#1000
its not a mechanic that 'keeps us busy', its an interesting find that you can use at any point you want to, but is only really valid in the early game because you don't actually have anything else to do. if you have 200 apm, and only need to hit 's' or 'e' or 's d' a few times in the first minute, you might as well use your additional apm for something useful like this.

it also doesn't break the game - if you're not at a level where you can do this easily, you're not really at a level where the extra couple of minerals helps you.
My hatred for [banelings] is way greater than my compassion
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