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8751 Posts
On September 17 2010 10:38 Excalibur_Z wrote:I've heard people say that there's a bug with the bonus pool for some players. Yesterday I played and my bonus pool was being consumed in 2v2 just fine. Today and the day before people were saying that it wasn't working. It's probably something they have to fix on the server end.
Yeah this is happening to me on Europe. I have had 130+ bonus pool during my last 18 wins. I received bonus for only one of those wins :o!
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United States12240 Posts
On September 17 2010 10:51 Woah wrote:All this information is really good but I recall hearing that when you got promoted (for example from plat to diamond) that you'd lose a certain amount of points. Is this a fixed amount? A %? Trying to figure out if its better, bonus pool wise, to get placed in diamond ASAP or if it doesn't really matter because I'm at 24-5 now winning more than I lose against ~1300 rating players and the system still won't promote me 
We don't know. I lost 63 points or 18.6%. When Vanick went from Bronze to Silver he lost 12 points or 7%. We just don't have enough information yet.
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Great job for putting all of your ladder analysis together in this thread, a lot of misconceptions going around.
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I think I've observed a counterexample to the formula for favored/unfavored. According to the FAQ, it compares each player's MMR to the opponent's displayed rating.
I am a 900 rated Gold player. I recently played an 850 rated Diamond player.
I won the game and received 30 points (15 unrested). He lost and gave up -10 points. I saw him as slightly favored and he saw me as slightly favored.
My opponent's MMR is quite a bit higher than my displayed rating. I'm only displayed as a 900 rated gold player, whereas he's an 850 diamond. I also checked to see approximately his MMR. His last 5 opponents were all >800 rated diamond players, so it wouldn't make sense if his MMR is around high gold. Also, he was on a winning streak.
If the formula is accurate, I should see him as even/favored (my MMR is around 850 diamond, based on my opponents) and he should see himself as the favorite against me (since my real rating is much lower).
Or am I missing something? Like how could my display rating (900 gold) be higher than his ~850 diamond MMR?
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Nice thread, although nothing is new for me. Most of this is just common sense if you just analyse the ladder.
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Just to let you know I still havent laddered been sitting at the bottom of my division (#100) for 11 days now and havent been demoted wonder how long I have to sit to test this effectively?
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On September 17 2010 11:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 10:51 Woah wrote:All this information is really good but I recall hearing that when you got promoted (for example from plat to diamond) that you'd lose a certain amount of points. Is this a fixed amount? A %? Trying to figure out if its better, bonus pool wise, to get placed in diamond ASAP or if it doesn't really matter because I'm at 24-5 now winning more than I lose against ~1300 rating players and the system still won't promote me We don't know. I lost 63 points or 18.6%. When Vanick went from Bronze to Silver he lost 12 points or 7%. We just don't have enough information yet.
Alright thanks  guess its a complicated, unknown formula as well o.o
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United States12240 Posts
On September 17 2010 18:14 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Just to let you know I still havent laddered been sitting at the bottom of my division (#100) for 11 days now and havent been demoted wonder how long I have to sit to test this effectively?
You're not going to get demoted due to inactivity because sigma only changes after a game has been played. It could increase after your first game played since coming back though, and maybe then you would be demoted. That's if inactivity affects uncertainty, of course (and it may not necessarily, it just does for TrueSkill).
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United States12240 Posts
On September 17 2010 17:23 Forbiddian wrote:
I think I've observed a counterexample to the formula for favored/unfavored. According to the FAQ, it compares each player's MMR to the opponent's displayed rating.
I am a 900 rated Gold player. I recently played an 850 rated Diamond player.
I won the game and received 30 points (15 unrested). He lost and gave up -10 points. I saw him as slightly favored and he saw me as slightly favored.
My opponent's MMR is quite a bit higher than my displayed rating. I'm only displayed as a 900 rated gold player, whereas he's an 850 diamond. I also checked to see approximately his MMR. His last 5 opponents were all >800 rated diamond players, so it wouldn't make sense if his MMR is around high gold. Also, he was on a winning streak.
If the formula is accurate, I should see him as even/favored (my MMR is around 850 diamond, based on my opponents) and he should see himself as the favorite against me (since my real rating is much lower).
Or am I missing something? Like how could my display rating (900 gold) be higher than his ~850 diamond MMR?
It's the other way around. His MMR is compared to your displayed rating and vice versa. You're also reading the points wrong: you did see him as slightly favored, but he saw you as teams even (due to the 10 point loss, and teams even is 10-14). You must have pretty similar MMR, though slightly higher than his displayed rating (maybe 900 Diamond due to the 10 point loss and his recent winning streak). That 900 Diamond estimated MMR is higher than your 900 Gold, so he was seen as slightly favored to you, and your estimated 900 Diamond MMR is higher than his 850 displayed rating, so you were roughly even/borderline slightly favored to him.
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United States12240 Posts
Oh hey, neat. My ladder FAQ has been featured on the Battle.net blog: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/790916
I wonder if I can treat that as official endorsement of the theories presented there. That would be pretty dramatic, considering it contains conjecture that hasn't been approved or confirmed by Blizzard.
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Is there a chance for not leveling up if u play on weekeneds and sometimes will just play after 2 weeks ?
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United States12240 Posts
On September 21 2010 02:10 noD wrote:
Is there a chance for not leveling up if u play on weekeneds and sometimes will just play after 2 weeks ?
No.
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Useful info, some of it was news to me.
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I have a question now that I have read through all of this.
Given:
Q: Is it possible for both players to see the other as Favored?
A: Yes, because it compares the opponent's MMR to the player's displayed rating. This is common when both players haven't played many games, meaning their MMR is higher than their displayed rating.
Bonus pool affects displayed rating, so someone who has an unused bonus pool (a bunch of accumulated points) is less favored than the same person with the bonus pool used (as they are essentially free points).
Does this mean that with say, 150 points saved you are better off losing 10 then winning 10 than winning 10 then losing the same 10 (as the use of the bonus pool will make those losses much larger) ?
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Solid FAQ! this should be stickied in some form or another.
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This is a good guide, but where's:
Q: I'm 700 points in Diamond; is my opinion on balance valid?
A: Not remotely.
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On September 18 2010 00:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 18:14 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Just to let you know I still havent laddered been sitting at the bottom of my division (#100) for 11 days now and havent been demoted wonder how long I have to sit to test this effectively? You're not going to get demoted due to inactivity because sigma only changes after a game has been played. It could increase after your first game played since coming back though, and maybe then you would be demoted. That's if inactivity affects uncertainty, of course (and it may not necessarily, it just does for TrueSkill).
Yeah I dont ladder much and I figured I'd give you a little extra data going to just be inactive on the ladder for a little bit and I'll let you know what happens like if I win my first game and get demoted then yes inactivity is taken into account. Only way I can think to test it for sure.
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I might have this wrong but don't your points get reduced when you go up divisions? I was under the impression that your overall points where divided in half every time you go up a division. I had a friend that was in platinum with 1200 points and when I checked him a couple days later he was diamond with 700. It made me assume this though he could have just lost a huge number of games in a couple days
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can anyone explain to me the purpose of this bpnus pool? The way I see it, it only achieves that we will never reach an ELO cap. What's the point of a system that is supposed to give you an idea of your skill level, if it is highly inflationary?
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EPT
