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Klumaster
United Kingdom36 Posts
On September 23 2010 15:20 Creation85 wrote: This is wrong, I haven't played any 1v1 games for well over 2 weeks and mine still has a green arrow. If you mouse over it it will tell you how far it thinks you've climbed. Chances are some people above you just got promoted out of your division (or it's possible a few people above you played very badly and managed to lose points). | ||
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Valckrie
United Kingdom533 Posts
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On September 23 2010 15:12 Dionyseus wrote: You are Hikko.324 currently a little over 1000pts in platinum correct? If that's you, I see you had a 9 game losing streak just six days ago, that must have caused your mmr to plummet. Today you had an 8 game winning streak but most of the games were against people around your skill level (11 points means practically even I believe) which means your mmr is still not high enough for diamond yet. Even the one game in that winning streak (3rd game in the series) that you got 14 points from, it was against a platinum 900. I think you will know you're close to getting promoted when you start getting 13-15 points per win more often, as that would mean you're winning against people that the system thinks are better than you. Thank you so much  I've tried to forget about that losing streak, it was a...stupidly stubborn move on my part. Woops! | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On September 23 2010 15:20 Creation85 wrote: This is wrong, I haven't played any 1v1 games for well over 2 weeks and mine still has a green arrow. You are creation.672 correct? If that's you, it is showing that you are ranked 59th, and last week you were ranked 60th, so that's why it has the green arrow. Perhaps the exclamation point only shows up when your rank is both lower and haven't played any games for the past week. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
On September 23 2010 21:19 Dionyseus wrote: You are creation.672 correct? If that's you, it is showing that you are ranked 59th, and last week you were ranked 60th, so that's why it has the green arrow. Perhaps the exclamation point only shows up when your rank is both lower and haven't played any games for the past week. The exclamation point one is admittedly the one I'm least sure about. I thought at first that it just showed that you were new to the division, but many players had exclamation points in my division and others despite having more than 5 games played over a few weeks. Then I refined that by thinking that maybe it requires no games played the previous week. Now I'm not sure what it is, other than it could be a server bug? The green arrow, red arrow, and dashes I'm more confident about, because hovering over them in-game will show your rank in the division last week, and that seems to be consistent. | ||
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Bane1998
United States21 Posts
On September 05 2010 14:43 Excalibur_Z wrote: Since the release of SC2 I've noticed a lot of recurring -- in fact, frequently asked -- questions regarding the ladder system. You will never stop the old wives' tales on how the ladder works. Dude thinks he notices he has to lose 4 times to get promoted. Dude tells his Buddy what he thinks he figured out and Buddy thinks, 'Oh yeah! Me too!' and then Dude and Buddy agree that's how it works. They proceed to tell Other People. Other People thinks it sounds complicated and intelligent and has magic numbers, so it must be right and correct. No amount of threads explaining MMR, sigma, etc will convince these people, and most of them don't even read forums anyway. Though, at least now when I hear the hare-brained theories I have an easy link to reply with along with my /facepalm. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
On September 24 2010 02:32 Bane1998 wrote: You will never stop the old wives' tales on how the ladder works. Dude thinks he notices he has to lose 4 times to get promoted. Dude tells his Buddy what he thinks he figured out and Buddy thinks, 'Oh yeah! Me too!' and then Dude and Buddy agree that's how it works. They proceed to tell Other People. Other People thinks it sounds complicated and intelligent and has magic numbers, so it must be right and correct. No amount of threads explaining MMR, sigma, etc will convince these people, and most of them don't even read forums anyway. Though, at least now when I hear the hare-brained theories I have an easy link to reply with along with my /facepalm. That's the whole point of this thread and the linked threads. There's no way to force people to read TL or the Bnet forums, though Blizzard has kindly linked this FAQ on the official site from one of their blog entries. Eventually as more people read it, more people get it, and more people can enlighten their friends. Part of the problem of the ladder system is that it requires a certain level of understanding and explanation. That directly conflicts with most people's nature of wanting to condense and simplify complicated concepts to a few words. It's much easier to hear and follow "you have to lose" than "your uncertainty factor has to drop and your invisible matchmaking rating has to rise beyond the required breakpoint". It may be the case that for a particular person, losing certain matches may stabilize that person faster, but that shouldn't be the hard and fast rule. Eventually threads and information like this one will spread enough that either everyone will get a decent understanding (or at least boil it down to something everyone can follow) or Blizzard will reveal the inner workings of the system (which everyone will read because hey blue posts). | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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AJMcSpiffy
United States1154 Posts
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RAeaLem
Singapore4 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
That brings up a good point. All you SEA players who transferred to NA should track complete match histories with as much detail as possible on yourself and your opponent. We can do this because you guys have to start from scratch. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/627980513?page=2#29 ...what you're experiencing is indeed a bug and we're in the process of developing a fix. We wanted to make sure that you and any other players experiencing this don't get discouraged. The fix will require you to keep playing once it's applied for it to resolve the cycle you're in, so we hope you'll continue doing just that. | ||
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babolatt
Canada312 Posts
I haven't played a ton of games (less than 100) and ever since the beginning I've actually been favored in almost every game I've played. Maybe 1 in 10 I'm either even or my opponent is favored. I've gone approximately 40-8 in my last 48-50 matches and I haven't been promoted. I'm also not playing any good players. Even my losses were due to either cheese or a big mistake by me. I don't think I've ever played a good player. In short: It appears that what is supposed to happen is that your opponent will be favored until you play a lot of games, at which time you will even out. Instead, I am almost always favored and very rarely even or unfavored. Is there something in this analysis that can explain this? | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
On September 30 2010 15:23 babolatt wrote: I have a question I'm wondering if someone can answer. I've read through these analyses (which are awesome btw) and I find one thing troubling. The system seems to want to show you that your opponent is favored until you play a lot of games at which time it evens out. Are we talking about the MMR or the actual text "you're favored" during matchmaking? If it's the actual text, and not MMR, I'm experiencing the exact opposite of this. I haven't played a ton of games (less than 100) and ever since the beginning I've actually been favored in almost every game I've played. Maybe 1 in 10 I'm either even or my opponent is favored. I've gone approximately 40-8 in my last 48-50 matches and I haven't been promoted. I'm also not playing any good players. Even my losses were due to either cheese or a big mistake by me. I don't think I've ever played a good player. In short: It appears that what is supposed to happen is that your opponent will be favored until you play a lot of games, at which time you will even out. Instead, I am almost always favored and very rarely even or unfavored. Is there something in this analysis that can explain this? Are you experiencing the Bronze Zero phenomenon? Can you link to your Bnet profile? | ||
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babolatt
Canada312 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + EDIT: Re-reading the explanation, I'm not sure if that's the case here. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
On October 01 2010 00:35 babolatt wrote: I guess it's possible, I am in Bronze... Profile: + Show Spoiler + EDIT: Re-reading the explanation, I'm not sure if that's the case here. Everything looks normal to me at a glance. You seem to be where the system thinks you should be for now. Extend your win streak more and you'll find yourself playing against tougher players. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
So yeah, the fix that’s going in - essentially, upon detection of one of these specific-case players the system will move them to a different division. The intent is to ensure we can resolve these fringe cases, help make sure everyone at all skill levels is having a fun time, and also that the fix not affect the rest of the ladder system. This fix is intended to hit all those notes. He didn't elaborate. Let the speculation begin! | ||
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jaeds
United States106 Posts
i asked about whether you change in diamond divisions, and found the answer was no 2 months ago. if this has changed let me know, but otherwise i'll know people won't switch divisions | ||
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KillerDucky
United States498 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:03 Excalibur_Z wrote: So I asked Bashiok what he meant by the sub-Bronze Zero MMR thing being a bug, because it seems to perform an essential function. This was his response: He didn't elaborate. Let the speculation begin! Special case division, ugh. ETA: I'll speculate that the sub-Bronze Zero MMR theory is right, and they are responding by calling it a bug, and fixing it by putting them into a special case division where the floor is anchored to an even lower MMR number. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12244 Posts
On October 02 2010 01:31 KillerDucky wrote: Special case division, ugh. ETA: I'll speculate that the sub-Bronze Zero MMR theory is right, and they are responding by calling it a bug, and fixing it by putting them into a special case division where the floor is anchored to an even lower MMR number. I wonder if that also means divisions have some kind of predetermined average MMR associated with them. I'm not married to that theory, and I guess we'll see what happens in the future, but hopefully that's not the case. As if that weren't enough, more wackiness! Hey Phron. There is an issue causing this delay of a promotion for you which we're currently working to address. The best temporary resolution is to continue playing normally, as you will eventually be promoted based on your performance. So they're not only changing the Bronze Zero thing but also loosening promotion criteria?? Who knows what else they'll include in this refinement pass? | ||
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EPT
. I've never gone on a losing streak more than 4 losses in a row, although you say that that shouldn't matter.
