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On September 05 2010 14:43 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Q: If I've never played 1v1, but I'm 2v2 Diamond, who will I face in 1v1 Placements?
A: Your performance in other brackets is considered when initially seeding your placement matches. In this case, you'd likely be paired with a Diamond player to start.
Ah, that explain a lot of what I was suspecting.
Really annoying when your partner is diamond then you try to go joke strats and get rolled and end up in bronze -___________-". Then you use the same joke strats for the next 10 games and win all of them.
The promotion system is pretty annoying though, I'm 21-9, facing 1k+ diamond players now and it still won't promote me -_-". Guess I need more games...
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As much as I appreciate the effort you've put into this and the quality of the information here.. it won't change anything.
There will still be idiots day in day out making new threads asking why they haven't been promoted out of gold because they won their last 5 games and they really really really feel like they should be in diamond.
Just like people who have no understanding at all of the system will still constantly post about how shitty it is and how it's obviously broken because they aren't where they think they should be. =/
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United States12240 Posts
On September 06 2010 12:18 Xma wrote:
confusion, i asked a question a while ago about having high # of games and having a 50-50 win/loss ratio ect...so are u saying (mainly from article 2 of ladder info) that more games with 50-50 it will b harder to promote vs less games and 5050 even with the checkpoint evaluations?
I responded to your PM, but just so there's no confusion from anyone else I'll paste my response here:
Blizzard's offered very little information on this, aside from a single mention from the lead designer during a Best Buy livechat where he said you're re-evaluated "around 30 games". That does mirror what we've seen in tracking promotions, where there is a large spike of promotions occurring between 22-30 games played. Beyond that, it tapers off and there is no spike that occurs after that. This suggests to us that the 22-30 mark is either a forced checkpoint or a coincidence in players stabilizing. Beyond that, it's certainly based on players stabilizing in a new league.
I wouldn't worry about getting cemented into a league because the system is rather flexible when it comes to rapid changes in skill -- at least, much moreso than Microsoft's TrueSkill. There was a guy on the Bnet forums who was looking to get demoted from Platinum to Bronze, so he lost about 20 games in a row then went 50-50 for his next 10 games and got put into Silver. About 30 games to go from firmly Platinum (like 200 games played) to Silver, borderline Bronze. That's not too bad, and 200 games is certainly enough to get your sigma probably as small as it's going to get.
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Katowice25012 Posts
I really love these threads, thanks for continuing to make them. I have tons of friends who whine about the system and its nice to have a resource that explains whats going on.
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United States12240 Posts
On September 06 2010 13:46 Apollys wrote:
Two things:
1) Doesn't the exclamation point mean the player joined the division "this week"?
That's what I thought it was at first, but turns out it's not. I had to revise that when I decided to browse some leagues and after hovering over the exclamation points I was still seeing "Joined: 8/2/2010" "Joined: 8/15/2010" which didn't fit with it meaning that they've joined this week. Ever since I got promoted, I only played 3 more 1v1 matches and that was in the same week as my promotion (about 2 or 3 weeks ago). I lost them all, which would have given me a red arrow the following week. I would have expected to have a dash for subsequent weeks, but it's still an exclamation point.
2) You say people have been promoted without having 7 losses. But you didn't specify what league you were talking about. I think the only time the 7 losses number is brought up is when people talk about being promoted to diamond. Have you seen people be promoted to diamond with less than 7 losses?
One more thing, nice info about the favored. I wondered how that worked, now it makes sense. And it's actually fairly logical. It's trying to force your point rating to follow your hidden rating.
I think we tracked all promotions, not just a particular league. The rules wouldn't be different for each league anyway, even for Diamond.
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Awesome triforce of threads you've made on the matchmaking system. Very much appreciated!
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Q: Is the bonus pool considered in any calculations? How can that be accurate if it constantly inflates ratings?
A: Because everyone has access to the same total amount of bonus pool, it's unlikely that it is included in any matchmaking calculations.
If it's not included in matchmaking calculations what is the point to it?
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I fought this guy the other day
http://sc2ranks.com/us/510076/Mjs
he's at 1500+ in bronze league, I'm in low-mid diamond. He beat me handily, I'm wondering what causes him to still be in bronze after 100 games.
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On September 06 2010 22:34 ZapRoffo wrote:I fought this guy the other day http://sc2ranks.com/us/510076/Mjshe's at 1500+ in bronze league, I'm in low-mid diamond. He beat me handily, I'm wondering what causes him to still be in bronze after 100 games.
His gosu friend was teaching him SC2 lessons. 
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Excellent thread, thank you for the information. I was confused because I disconnected 2 placements and got to 19-2 in Silver before I got promoted directly to Diamond. I was frustrated, and then I lol'd.
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United States12240 Posts
On September 06 2010 20:22 Eluadyl wrote:Show nested quote +Q: Is the bonus pool considered in any calculations? How can that be accurate if it constantly inflates ratings?
A: Because everyone has access to the same total amount of bonus pool, it's unlikely that it is included in any matchmaking calculations. If it's not included in matchmaking calculations what is the point to it?
A few reasons:
- Pushing inactive players further down the rankings
- Psychologically it acts as an incentive to play (after all, they're free points that you just have to claim by winning)
- Providing a sense of progression
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Q: Will the ladder be divided into seasons?
A: Yes, eventually. The length of a season has not been announced by Blizzard, but all ratings are expected to be wiped at that time.
thank god
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United States12240 Posts
On September 06 2010 22:34 ZapRoffo wrote:I fought this guy the other day http://sc2ranks.com/us/510076/Mjshe's at 1500+ in bronze league, I'm in low-mid diamond. He beat me handily, I'm wondering what causes him to still be in bronze after 100 games.
The people he's facing now are either in diamond or they routinely play against people that are in diamond (meaning their MMR is equivalent).
I checked his match history. He went 5-0 in his placement matches, the last one being against a Gold player. He either was placed in Gold or Platinum. After that, he threw a ton of his games. 24 in a row to be precise. Then he won 12 in a row, then lost another. That was when he was probably put into Bronze. He then played 4 even matches against Bronze players, so the system thought he belonged in Bronze. He went on a 30 game win streak after that, playing even matches against Silver players, unfavored matches against Gold players, unfavored matches against Plat players, and now finally even/unfavored matches against Diamond players.
He hasn't been promoted to Diamond yet because he hasn't stabilized. He's still considered too volatile to promote, though he is close I would estimate.
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Has anyone seen inconsistencies between the "favored/slightly favored" status on the loading screen versus the status at the end of the game? There have been MANY times when the loading screen says the other team is slightly favored, but when my team ends up winning the game, we turn out to be the slightly favored team. Likewise, when the other team is favored and my team loses, we sometimes see we get docked major points for being the favored team.
Anyone else see this?
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United States12240 Posts
On September 08 2010 01:00 screaper wrote:
Has anyone seen inconsistencies between the "favored/slightly favored" status on the loading screen versus the status at the end of the game? There have been MANY times when the loading screen says the other team is slightly favored, but when my team ends up winning the game, we turn out to be the slightly favored team. Likewise, when the other team is favored and my team loses, we sometimes see we get docked major points for being the favored team.
Anyone else see this?
I've seen people report that, but I haven't seen it for myself. From what people have said, the Score Screen is the accurate report and your points gained or lost is consistent with what is reported there. I played quite a few games over the weekend and never witnessed it, though. Were you playing RT?
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United States12240 Posts
Added this question after some interesting threads started appearing on the Bnet forums.
Q: I'm in Bronze with 0 rating and a poor win ratio. I'm only getting 2 or 4 or 6 points -- including bonus pool -- for a win, but losing 22 points for a loss! Why is this happening, and how will I possibly get above 0 rating as long as this is happening to me?
A: This one was tough to figure out because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense on the surface. Point gains and losses that are that extreme can only mean that you're Favored in every single match, but how is that possible if you're already in Bronze with 0 rating? The answer is that your MMR can go below Bronze 0. Because your rating -- which is zero -- is higher than your MMR which is somewhere far below zero, you will constantly be Favored. Because of the way MMR gains work, however, as long as you maintain a positive win ratio, you will eventually find matches where you are Slightly Favored and ultimately Teams Even and beyond. At that point, you will start to gain more points than you lose.
Speculation: This may be a remnant from Beta, either from when Copper league was removed or when players started at 0 rating when they used to start at 1000 rating. It could be that Bronze 0 is equal to Beta's 1000 rating (and therefore Bronze 0 = 1000 MMR).
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Hi !
What happened to the bonus pool ?!
For 2 days it hasn t worked ... a play and usual and get ... + 11 ; -5 ; -19 ; +14 - and the bonus pool accumulates ... it has 50 right now !
.... I m a diamond player ( > 1100) .. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/323212/1/Tom/
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United States12240 Posts
On September 17 2010 09:42 Tomtaietot wrote:Hi ! What happened to the bonus pool ?! For 2 days it hasn t worked ... a play and usual and get ... + 11 ; -5 ; -19 ; +14 - and the bonus pool accumulates ... it has 50 right now ! .... I m a diamond player ( > 1100) .. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/323212/1/Tom/
I've heard people say that there's a bug with the bonus pool for some players. Yesterday I played and my bonus pool was being consumed in 2v2 just fine. Today and the day before people were saying that it wasn't working. It's probably something they have to fix on the server end.
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Wow really nice, you're the man.
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All this information is really good but I recall hearing that when you got promoted (for example from plat to diamond) that you'd lose a certain amount of points.
Is this a fixed amount? A %? Trying to figure out if its better, bonus pool wise, to get placed in diamond ASAP or if it doesn't really matter because I'm at 24-5 now winning more than I lose against ~1300 rating players and the system still won't promote me 
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EPT
