EPTThe Truth About Diamond League - Page 37
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Sanasante
United States321 Posts
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Lysis
United States147 Posts
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Deindar
United States302 Posts
but seriously, i agree with saracen completely lol. | ||
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ShovZ
United Kingdom56 Posts
Oh, and I'm all about understanding the game, have yet to cheese a game ^^ | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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Mylin
Sweden177 Posts
Think that has made many of us a bit delusional but like the OP states in the end the better players will always prevail as playing only to win is just a short-term solution that will only work for so long (hardest part if you want to actually improve at this game at this point is probably not going completely emo laddering because you're gonna lose in just about every possible way for probably a few months to come before you've got a solid fundamental understanding of how to react to most builds). One thing I do find funny though is that this thing about relative skill is also true for many of the top players we have now who in BW was mostly considered "decent but still terrible"-foreigners who all of a sudden find themselves being some of the best players in the world with the release of SC2. Point of the argument is basically lets all not get to carried away now and fear the time when people figure out how to beat that 1-base allin you do every game (or if you're Idra the time the actually good koreans start practicing). | ||
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Alexstrasas
302 Posts
You basicly bash diamonds specificly for some reason, like if anytime a pro player says anything a diamond jumps in "HAi ! IM DIAMOND I THINK YOU ARE WRONG" qxc: Have invite only topics. For example, create a TvZ discussion thread and only allow top tier Terrans and Zergs to post in it. Assuming people actually participated, it could be pretty interesting. It’s tough to defend a point when I’ve got bronze players telling me what I’m saying is wrong every other line. "It’s tough to defend a point when I’ve got bronze players telling me what I’m saying is wrong every other line." Dont see your fixation with diamond, as qxc said, you are as likely to have a bronze say he is wrong as a dimanond. Instead of just bashing the players and achieve nothing, you could have tried to propose a "PRO" section in the forum, were only pros and moderators would post. I think this would actualy be well received by the community as this would encorage more pro players to discuss issues here amongst themselves. | ||
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Nefra
United Kingdom37 Posts
On August 27 2010 11:10 Alexstrasas wrote: I really dont understand what you were expecting to achieve with this thread. TL;DR-1: Everyone needs to stop trying to back their shit up with whatever rating/rank they happen to have. TL;DR-2: As elitist as it sounds, people need to understand that pretty much at this point - what the pro's say, goes - to an extent; unlike to mr joe bronze, you can't just come in and say they're wrong straight up. Sure, if one of what we regard to be SC2 pros posts something that you might not agree on, then of course it'd be alright to respond in a way that adds to and looks to further the discussion (such as would be achieved in an invite only thread), but simply saying 'No, you're wrong' does nothing to encourage the pros to post in the forums more, as QXC said in the interview. As an aside, I think the 'fixation with diamond' in the OP was merely to really drill in the idea of TL;DR-1. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11554 Posts
my input is extremely valuable as a top 5% player of SC2 + Show Spoiler + just kidding Saracen I totally agree | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
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brad drac
Ireland202 Posts
I'm a low diamond player who hasn't memorised any build orders. Where does this put me...? I need to have a letter assigned to me to know my worth! Please help!! | ||
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Phaded
Australia579 Posts
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WormSy
France30 Posts
I stoped beta back when the diamond league appeared. I was decent plat player, probably top 300 on my realm. I could own low plat players, and everytime I did a tourney and played against a top player (naniwa, socke and such), I got totally stomped, even if I scouted right, they just plainly outplayed me. I haven't bought the game yet, so I tried playing on a friend account (I'm kinda sorry for him), and I tried to up the account from mid gold to diamond the fastest way. He played a lot of game so the mmr only raise slowly, and you see a lot of players from each skill level. Basically, all I've done for 40 games was one base all in as zerg, baneling bust against terran, roach all in against protoss, and classic baneling against Zerg. At gold level, you CANT lose a game if you know the timing for canon rush and scout it (it happens quite often, I've it like 3 games within my 12 ZvP at gold / plat lvl). Every time my roaches / baneling bust would destroy my opponent. At plat level, you dont win every game in less than 5 minutes. Sometimes Protoss will hold off the Roaches with kinda decent Stalker macro / micro. But even if you start with the extreme disadvantage being one base zerg vs one base protoss and doing no damage, you expand, make some drones, macro some roaches and win. Every time. You cant lose because they can't macro anything past one base. At diamond level (I've stoped with opponent at 850 diamond), rush wont work 8 games every 10. But there again, they can't macro more than one base... The only difference between plat players and low diamond players is the micro on one base. I actually lost 2 games against diamond players, both against one base play (timing attack with 3 void ray, my hydra were like 3 seconds late, and timing attack with cloaked banshee, my mutas were 3 seconds late ...) and because my timings were slightly off (3 months without starcraft screw that a bit). So yes, every thing under 900 diamond is a joke, I'm pretty bad myself, and you cant say you're "good" because you're rank 1 diamond, or 900 diamond. You just can't. That's like saying "I'm good at WoW, I've just finished Nax and I can even kill Saurfang with 30% buff". Ok, you're 80, you've done PUG raid, but you suck. What's annoying isnt the bronze / gold / plat / low-mid-highbutnotvery diamond who try to share their point of view about some things in the game. What's annoying is that some players take their own words as the absolute truth, even if real top players try to EXPLAIN why they're wrong. And that's why it became really boring to read every post of a balance / strategy / build order topic. | ||
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RaFeStaR
United States161 Posts
We should all be on the same page. Making a thread that is absolutely ignorant and directed towards elitism isn't going to get us anywhere. | ||
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Gnarg
Netherlands165 Posts
I doubt any of the pro's know the game enough to state things for fact, if you consider how fast the metagame is changing. So if there are logical holes in their arguments they should offcourse be questioned. | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
On August 25 2010 06:26 iEchoic wrote: Never played SC1, I tried it out and didn't like the simplicity of it. AoE had 4 resources, multiple ways to collect each resource, no pre-defined expansion slots, tons more units, etc. I'm not saying SC didn't take skill. It took loads of skill. I'm just saying that people need to stop acting like SC1 is the end-all to RTS games. Wrapping your head around a game like AoE or EE was literally 50 times harder than SC1 or SC2. 4 resources??? only one... gold.... tons of units?... like 7 with differents upgrades, all races the same... totally agree with the OP, if a better player than you says your doing something wrong, you probably are... | ||
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Azar
Colombia66 Posts
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michaelthe
United States359 Posts
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Simplification
United States33 Posts
but guess what diamond doesnt even matter, has HuK etc even beaten an established SC:BW player, like say a boxer, jaedong, NaDa, Bisu, Stork, Yellow etc... (someone with a professional gaming license or a StarLeague win to their credit...)? Nope, just WC:III player, do you really think that gives these 'pros' credentials?? I believe jaedong was quote as saying something to the like ' In the WCG my only competition come from the Korean player I hope the brackets work out so we dont have to play early' Not to take away from the European dream team, but this is track and field where you can use a stop watch, and compare... SCII:WoL is vanilla Starcraft II, it doesnt have a major Korean scene, until this develops and the dream team beats them straight up, stop throwing around the word 'pros' like it means anything yet... there isnt a pro scene yet, so please stop trying to turn this form into an elitist straw-man just waiting to be pulled down when a Bisu or Flash or Boxer comes along and destroys your 'pros', as is the case in every major international tourney in SC:BW... The point is lets evaluate ideas as ideas, instead of 'Morrow BO: Mass Reapers = only BO vs Zerg because Morrow said so', but instead 'Mass Reapers v Z, what are the strengths and weaknesses of that type of build; what are the important timings; when could cutting a worker, a reaper, a rax, give a transition into or out of an all-in/ afford me an important upgrade etc...' Believe it or not full time SCII player are not the only ones with good, innovative ideas...It seems the only point of this thread is to stifle innovation, and establish a status quo of 'pro' players, and the absolute nature of 'pro' branded ideas | ||
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michaelthe
United States359 Posts
On August 27 2010 13:00 Simplification wrote: The point is lets evaluate ideas as ideas... Believe it or not full time SCII player are not the only ones with good, innovative ideas.. The issue is simple, a strategy from a gold level player can be shown to be terrible with better mechanics. Strategy and mechanics go hand in hand. You cant really have great strategy spawn from someone with terrible mechanics... Point and case can be found anywhere in the strategy forum. Someone posting "X is unstopable" or "How I stopped X" is rather useless to players with better mechanics... | ||
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