EPTAnd the comparison to iccup, pretty much spot on lol. I remember when I played, you needed to PRACTICE to get past D, not play more games, actual practice.
The Truth About Diamond League - Page 38
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Titusmaster6
United States5936 Posts
And the comparison to iccup, pretty much spot on lol. I remember when I played, you needed to PRACTICE to get past D, not play more games, actual practice. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
 In particular i like the idea of focused discussions with high level players invited only. Maybe it could be a "featured discussion" that anyone can view, that is stickied at the top, but only those people invited as you said can comment on. Keep on truckin' | ||
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
People in diamond ARE good. They beat what, 90% of the players that play online?? Sure, SOMETIMES they do it with relatively few builds, but so what? They're damn effective. It would be idiotic to stop doing a build that defeats X race at a great clip. What I think most of the people in diamond LACK though, is the humility and understanding that in the grand scheme of things, their rank actually is SHIT. Yes, they beat the crap out of the general public but on average, they are not even on the same planet as the ++diamonds, the pros, the Sheths/Idras of the world. Right now I am a 600/700 diamond, I know 10 people that play SC in real life and the next highest is in gold. Yes they are noobs, but so are MOST of the people that play SC2. Pit me up against the top 1%, 2% or even 5% and I'm sure my rank is obviously worth nothing. What most people also fail to realize is that the diamond.jpeg that Blizzard uses is SLEEK and absolutely sexy. I kiss it before I go to sleep every night. EDIT: I'm not saying I would prefer to hear a shit diamond talk about strategy over the REAL cream of the crop. However until the real cream of the crop come down from Mount Blizzard then diamonds are a fine proxy for how to crush the general public. It stops working when you reach a certain level right? If not you are all noobs and die to the Korean 4 gate woot woot woot | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
I do wonder where I really stand, but I just dont really have the time or interest to try to play hardcore since I dont think I am quite good enough to compete with the likes of HuK. I was hoping to get into the TLA against qxc recently to see just how close or far away I am, but I wasnt chosen D: | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On August 27 2010 13:25 guyGOTgirth wrote: Adding my two cents: People in diamond ARE good. They beat what, 90% of the players that play online?? Sure, SOMETIMES they do it with relatively few builds, but so what? They're damn effective. It would be idiotic to stop doing a build that defeats X race at a great clip. D+ players beat 99.99% of noniccup players in broodwar, but we are still objectively fucking terrible. i don't think beating 95% of players online is very significant if they're essentially beating up players who don't even understand the concept of hotkeying buildings and rallying units. i know someone who has 650 points in diamond who plays the entire game by manually selecting every single building and clicking on the icons to build stuff. i'm not sure he even uses "A" to attack move. if someone who doesn't even have a concept of an RTS should be efficiently played can be diamond, imagine the rest of ladder. | ||
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
On August 27 2010 13:39 rauk wrote: D+ players beat 99.99% of noniccup players in broodwar, but we are still objectively fucking terrible. i don't think beating 95% of players online is very significant if they're essentially beating up players who don't even understand the concept of hotkeying buildings and rallying units. i know someone who has 650 points in diamond who plays the entire game by manually selecting every single building and clicking on the icons to build stuff. i'm not sure he even uses "A" to attack move. if someone who doesn't even have a concept of an RTS should be efficiently played can be diamond, imagine the rest of ladder. Yeah, there is always like, this X or Y example. In the case of this person you know, he obviously has a good game sense to be able to play like a total idiot and still win. It's not a mistake how many games he won and the points he generated, it happened. It's there. Sure, if the guy is diamond with 10 games, tell him to fuck off. But the average games in my diamond division is 121. 121 times on average, these players come out on top. Yeah, they're still "objectively fucking terrible" but to what % of the people? 5/10/15? EDIT: I noticed you did say 5% of players online isnt that significant. But given that... how can you say that they are then not like "general public approved noob bashing" good. Either way, I don't care allll that much, I know I will never be a good RTS player, just good among every friend I know in real life as well as the 95% of the people I crush online. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm just a noob with a dream. Ok not even a dream. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On August 27 2010 13:45 guyGOTgirth wrote: Yeah, there is always like, this X or Y example. In the case of this person you know, he obviously has a good game sense to be able to play like a total idiot and still win. It's not a mistake how many games he won and the points he generated, it happened. It's there. Sure, if the guy is diamond with 10 games, tell him to fuck off. But the average games in my diamond division is 121. 121 times on average, these players come out on top. Yeah, they're still "objectively fucking terrible" but to what % of the people? 5/10/15? no, he doesn't have a sense of how the game is played. he plays terran, a-moves, and wins. he wins because his opponents literally don't even have a concept of how the game is supposed to be played. i play terran, and i didn't even know that you're supposed to build marines against immortals until today. i don't have follow any build order past 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas. i just mass stuff, a-move, and win, and i've got 780 points because 780 points is worthless. when i say objectively terrible, i mean failing to correctly execute a proper build order, failing to keep minerals below 200, failing to continually produce units while not getting supply blocked, not forgetting to inject/chrono/mule, failing to understand why your build order works the way it does, how ahead/behind you are based on your expansion timing compared to his, minimap awareness and not getting raped by drops, remembering to actually research your upgrades, constantly producing workers, or even just failing to build the correct unit hard counter when you've been staring at his tech building for 5 minutes. (all of which the above i am guilty of. i am a typical terribad diamond player who makes a bunch of stuff and comes out ahead because stim marauders beat everything else in the game.) edit: also objectively terrible implies that you are held to an objective standard. so comparing to other people is irrelevant. you either do something correctly or you don't. diamond players don't. | ||
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guyGOTgirth
United States76 Posts
I think being in the top 10% etc, does mean something. It means out of every 10 people that ladder, you are better than 9, etc. How can you say that those players are bad, even if they do fail to do X (insert one of the points on how to play an RTS game in general that you indicated). Just because they aren't a pro doesn't mean they aren't gooooooood compared to the general public. I think we are just bastards about admitting it. We don't want to give more fuel to feed diamond egos right? What I said in my original post: EDIT: I'm not saying I would prefer to hear a shit diamond talk about strategy over the REAL cream of the crop. However until the real cream of the crop come down from Mount Blizzard then diamonds are a fine proxy for how to crush the general public. It stops working when you reach a certain level right? If not you are all noobs and die to the Korean 4 gate woot woot woot | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
that is essentially what the bnet ladder boils down to. | ||
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LolnoobInsanity
United States183 Posts
Also, why not have an invite only topic that everyone can read? Only the high level players could comment but everyone could learn from it. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On August 27 2010 14:35 LolnoobInsanity wrote: Well don't you think that in 10 years time, a diamond player will be equivalent to an A player on ICCUP? Rankings will always be relative. The skill gap isn't that high yet because the most skilled players aren't that skilled. When the possible skill level is higher, then so will the gap between that and the complete noob. Also, why not have an invite only topic that everyone can read? Only the high level players could comment but everyone could learn from it. that's ridiculous. an A player on iccup is a semipro or incredibly good korean amateur. most foreigners can't make A- without dodging koreans on iccup. in 10 years time a diamond player will still be D-, and the current pros if they keep playing hard will still be pros. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
There are so many here who seem like they're misunderstanding the OP, from those thinking that it's saying "Only elites have worthy things to say" and those that say "Even though I'm mid-diamond I can still give advice to lower levels." Especially the latter of the above annoys me; he's not talking about giving out advice to random players on B.net, he's talking about those people who post on TL strategy going "Listen to me I'm 500 diamond", and that "500 diamond" doesn't mean anything if you don't actually understand the game. Everyone is welcome to say what they want, but don't go around throwing your rank and expecting to be listened to like you're the end-all-be-all. Chill put it best when he said that humility was needed. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 27 2010 15:13 Zurles wrote: It's kind of funny to watch the <500 posts guys argue with the bw players. It's really not about elitism, he's giving you a perspective so that you guys don't see everything with the naivety and bias that you do, and most of you will never understand Broodwar, being D+ or C- is NOT easy. Its kind of funny to watch the >500 posts guys argue that post count matters. You know, qxc has only 161 posts and hes a pretty solid player. Hell, even registration doesnt matter considering I joined in like 2003 and dont think I am an exceptionally good player. | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
On August 27 2010 15:17 TheRabidDeer wrote: Its kind of funny to watch the >500 posts guys argue that post count matters. You know, qxc has only 161 posts and hes a pretty solid player. Hell, even registration doesnt matter considering I joined in like 2003 and dont think I am an exceptionally good player. Obviously there are exceptions... so what? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
What do you mean so what? I am just calling out you and tons of other people that look at a narrow number of factors to decide if somebodies opinion is valid or not, and its straight up wrong. There are plenty of people here that have 1k+ posts and have been here for years, and even played BW that have horribly invalid ideas. | ||
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FrontalMonkey
United States90 Posts
It's called think before you post, lurk before that, and digest what you read. I got placed in bronze, and don't think that's an accurate assessment of my skill level, but I'm not gonna tell orb how starcraft should be played. Okay, maybe I did...but hey, lesson learned. :D | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:28 Jonoman92 wrote: Good post, however I think you give each level too much credit. Bronze: I hit find match button, what's that do? Silver: I know how to select units and make them attack. Gold: I have a general idea on how to play an rts game. Platinum (not stuck-in-platinum-because-stupid-system-won't-promote-me but actual platinum): I have a loosely followed build order. Diamond: Anything above that. This seems more reasonable to me. | ||
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Gyro
Norway36 Posts
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Darkstar_X
United States197 Posts
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