EPTGo Machine! Take down MC!!
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 914
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
Go Machine! Take down MC!! | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:28 GeorgeForeman wrote: iNcontroL is just addressing straw men at this point. Tyler never said not to post. He just said that if you're going to post, be a forum poster, not some guy in a suit. And Tyler never said that you should do that because he's on Team Liquid and its Team Liquid's website. He was saying that as a forum poster, he only wants people contributing on the forums. Which is completely valid. iNcontroL is addressing that point because Tyler inappropriately is accusing Colbi of doing what he says. Colbi posted the barebones facts. Nothing more. Nothing less. He didn't post EG's side and he didn't post Liquid's side. Where Tyler is mistaken and what makes the entire argument ridiculous is poor interpretation of Colbi's initial post. | ||
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:30 Oreo7 wrote: Yeah. Colbi is representing EG. EG invited Liquid and Liquid declines for X reason. All Colbi says is that Liquid declined. That is not the same as Liquid declined for X reason. So in reality, Colbi is lying and giving off false perceptions. I think the entire discussion about Stride Gum/Hot Bid or whatever is weird and maybe not important at all. It's basically the same thing, except with gum and HB the incentive is monetary, whereas with Colbi the monetary incentive to lie is non-existent, so leaving out the comment about Liquid can only come from two places: A) Colbi does not want Liquid to look good and B) Colbi wants EG to look good. Tyler's position (and he did get heated, which he admitted to be wrong in a weird convoluted way) is that Colbi should have just given the whole story, because the only reasons not to were hostile to the TEAM team liquid, which in turn, damage the very income of the SITE team liquid, upon which Colbi is ironically posting this. TL;DR - Colbi is intentionally leaving out part of a story which makes TL look bad on the TL forums, and Tyler dont take no shit from that fucking kid yo This is pretty much how I see it. Tyler got a little too heated possibly but his initial point stands. Idra agreed with him exactly but didnt realize it. | ||
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:27 ruggedshrimp wrote: wow, Incontrol actually insulting Tyler personally now? I love Geoff but come on man. I thought this was just a debate... Lost some respect there... Grow some balls, people get frustrated especially in an argument going absolutely no where when 1 party isn't making much sense... | ||
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Thrax
Canada1755 Posts
Now, if TL wants to go into details (which they did), more power to them. Of course, when you go into details, it's very easy to give a biased explanation that presents a party as right or wrong. I think that kinda happened here. EG then presented their own side. If you ignore all the BS in the thread and read Nazgul's last post (and some of the IdrA and Nazgul discussion) and SirScoots comment, I think you get a really good and unbiased idea of what happened. (actually, HotBid also had a really good conclusion) Anyway, I think both teams had good reasons for their own actions. | ||
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Sceptor87
Canada266 Posts
I implore the people that do this show to mediate their own thoughts in the future, otherwise shit like this happens. If you have an argument, good. You're human, you're supposed to. But realize that in the end you might actually be wrong. It's like seeing the Dunning-Kruger effect manifest itself. | ||
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Ghostpvp
United States462 Posts
Clever girl. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
The issue seems simple enough and despite what Incontrol and Idra say, Tyler is right. If you're in a position of credibility and you're explaining an issue, you should try your hardest to explain everything you know or explain nothing at all because if you are telling an incomplete story, it will be used "against" you in some way. It's not about speaking on behalf of Liquid, it's about communicating relevant and important information in a full and complete manner. If Colbi really just said "Liquid declined our invitation" and that was it, that has spin on it intentional or not. The immediate reaction to that statement is "wtf Liquid" not "well I'm sure Liquid had their reasons" because their reasons were not mentioned. It also removes any responsibility from EG in the immediate sense as it makes the situation a matter of Liquid's decision. If you know the reasons, you should stand up to the responsibilities you have as one privileged with access to information and speak what you know. | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:30 trias_e wrote: Incontrol and Idra are just knocking down strawmen constantly in this argument. I wish Tyler would do a better job calling them out on it, but he probably needs to catch up on a couple years in debate club first. true, what incontrol doing is so debate like......the tactics he used to explain his points and how he attacks tyler's points. I dont think its intentional, but still, once you debate, you are always a debater. I think Tyler does have a point.....but he just sucked at explaining it. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
"Just starting casting, excited, haven't done much yet. Wish me luck and tune in!" I just let out an audible "D'awwwwww" at that. Didn't know he was casting so much in the future either, and can't wait for his streaming! Is that going to be this week or next? | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9055 Posts
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Scribble
2077 Posts
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cooked
China1238 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:30 Oreo7 wrote: Yeah. Colbi is representing EG. EG invited Liquid and Liquid declines for X reason. All Colbi says is that Liquid declined. That is not the same as Liquid declined for X reason. So in reality, Colbi is lying and giving off false perceptions. I think the entire discussion about Stride Gum/Hot Bid or whatever is weird and maybe not important at all. It's basically the same thing, except with gum and HB the incentive is monetary, whereas with Colbi the monetary incentive to lie is non-existent, so leaving out the comment about Liquid can only come from two places: A) Colbi does not want Liquid to look good and B) Colbi wants EG to look good. Tyler's position (and he did get heated, which he admitted to be wrong in a weird convoluted way) is that Colbi should have just given the whole story, because the only reasons not to were hostile to the TEAM team liquid, which in turn, damage the very income of the SITE team liquid, upon which Colbi is ironically posting this. TL;DR - Colbi is intentionally leaving out part of a story which makes TL look bad on the TL forums, and Tyler dont take no shit from that fucking kid yo this is the argument they SHOULD'VE had. but of course with it being a live talkshow and live debate and everything, ego and defensiveness gets in the way, and the issue gets sidetracked after about 45 seconds. | ||
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ffz
United States490 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:26 Goibon wrote: lol geoff spinning it into competition Tyler's point is that you don't come to a forum, which is not an advertising forum, but a community, and act like an advertiser. If the standard is that TeamLiquid is to NOT be a community forum, but instead be a forum for advertisers to spew their bullshit PR speak, then we need to get that memo out. Geoff being a real jerk here. This is perfect. Exactly what I'm feeling like. Also it's frustrating that they didnt' talk about the changing server rule at all. | ||
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Zeri
United States773 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:32 I_Love_Bacon wrote: iNcontroL is addressing that point because Tyler inappropriately is accusing Colbi of doing what he says. Colbi posted the barebones facts. Nothing more. Nothing less. He didn't post EG's side and he didn't post Liquid's side. Where Tyler is mistaken and what makes the entire argument ridiculous is poor interpretation of Colbi's initial post. Tyler's whole point is that those weren't the bare bone facts. They were a certain set of true, core, facts, but there were others that are equally as 'bare bone' as colbi said that were left unsaid. and this caused incorrect inferences. Hence Tyler's accusation of deception. | ||
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DeLoReAn
United States81 Posts
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:32 I_Love_Bacon wrote: iNcontroL is addressing that point because Tyler inappropriately is accusing Colbi of doing what he says. Colbi posted the barebones facts. Nothing more. Nothing less. He didn't post EG's side and he didn't post Liquid's side. Where Tyler is mistaken and what makes the entire argument ridiculous is poor interpretation of Colbi's initial post. iNcontrol has a tendency to do this kind of thing in every argument, regardless of whether he is right or wrong, take one microcosm of what someone is saying, and just attack that rather then his opponenets overall argument. | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:19 Warrice wrote: Tyler and day9 got rolled by eg today It's not them getting rolled, it's them being diplomatic. Not only are they friends with these people, they have to keep within the interests of the community. Obviously Day9 isn't going to rant about balance and completely alienate a third of his fans, that may also be die hard idra fans, or stout fans who believe zerg is UP. It's within his best interest as a spokesperson of esports to not get into a childish discussion about balance on a show that 20k people are watching live. On the Incontrol, Tyler debate, I love them both. But it was completely childish for the debate to go on longer than 2 minutes. They are both looking out for the best interests of their teams (EG and Liquid) as a team and a franchise. Yet decide to have tense Ego thrusting debate battle, that puts both teams in an awkward situation where instead of both franchises benefiting each other, they alienate fans of both and make both teams look aggressive and unfriendly. The arguement was unprofessional and not the funny kind that makes the show better. Atleast with arguements about balance, your discussing the actual State Of The Game. But despite that, keep up the great work. Love the show! | ||
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