EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 757
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 13 2011 17:38 eviltomahawk wrote: I guess my analogy was highly inaccurate regarding the mobility and direct threat between Protoss deathballs and Terran mech. However, I think what I was trying to explain (but probably failing) is that in the case of a static Terran mech army or a mobile Protoss deathball, it definitely will require more APM from the opposing player to break apart both types of armies. In either case, it's extremely difficult to engage, though I do agree that the Protoss deathball is much more immediately threatening. Also, I feel that engaging a Terran siege line is essentially a meticulous science that must require more than simple a-moving. Likewise, I think there should be a more meticulous, more APM-intensive, yet more effective method to engage the Protoss deathball other than a-moving roaches, hydras, lings, and corruptors into the deathball. Then again, I'm too low level a player to experiment or theorycraft such a method, though I do have hopes that the Protoss deathball is a solvable puzzle. I still think the comparison is iffy. With a terran siege line you could force the player to do other things because of the immobility of it. You could work around the line and then force the mistake. With the mobile Protoss ball that is far harder to accomplish so again it's all about the mobilities. You can't really use logic gained through BW Siege lines and apply them to Protoss Deathballs without getting a diluted outcome. A mobile Death ball is a far scarier and different beast compared to an immobile one. | ||
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DBrave
Serbia379 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On April 13 2011 16:57 Biggun69 wrote: It doesn't matter how much harras / cute nydras or drops you do, once a Protoss is maxed there is no way a maxed zerg army can beat a maxed Protoss army. I believe this is a fundamental balance issue. Zerg needs to rely on their ability to resupply but if a protoss is on 3 - 5 bases with 15 gateways then they can resupply almost just as fast. That because you don't understand what blizzard designed. Protoss is supposed to win every time maxed because they cost so much and slow to get maxed. Protoss = strong, slow, and expensive Zerg = more, fast, weak and cheap If one works within those constructs and they'll be happier. If not just play mirrors. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/protoss/ Protoss Characteristics Heavy Hitters Pound for pound, the protoss field StarCraft II’s strongest and most durable units. That power comes at a price, as their units tend to be costly. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/game/race/zerg/ Zerg Characteristics Strength in Numbers Left unchecked, the zerg multiply at an alarming rate and spawn large armies quickly. Individual zerg units may not be as strong or as hardy as the other races’ forces, but that doesn’t matter when you’re facing an endless stream of them. | ||
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itmeJP
United States1101 Posts
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eNbee
Belgium487 Posts
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:00 eNbee wrote: The way the show ended was kinda awkward Might I ask how did it end then? :o | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10820 Posts
Colossus + Sentri/Stalker >>> Lings/Hydras and also Roaches (after a certain amount of Colossi). What sort of Unitcombination shall Zerg find when 1 Unit basically counters their entire ground army as long as it has a decent Meatshield and/or Forcefields? This "drama" forces Corruptors which just don't cut it. If Corruptors would be "dangerous" for the Toss ground army after the Colossi are dead the whole thing would look much better. Corruption is just not good enough. Just imagine if Corruptor could lift up units or land after the Colossi are down like Phoenix/Vikings can (or something diffrent like "holding/slowing" units on the ground?). The fact that a Zerg pretty much has 15-30 Supply (which are 1500 to 3000 Gas), which he absoluetly needs, do next to nothing after the Colossus are gone is a huge problem. The one unit combination that probably could do good is Infestor/Ultra + Lings... But that needs about 8 Gas and a huge Bank to actually get the required amount of Ultras... And still gets raped by Voidrays... | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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DBrave
Serbia379 Posts
On April 13 2011 17:59 itmeJP wrote: http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2011/04/sotg-ep34.html has all the preshow / mp3 / video links ty JP !! | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:04 Velr wrote: Just imagine if Corruptor could lift up units or land after the Colossi are down like Phoenix/Vikings can (or something diffrent like "holding/slowing" units on the ground?). The fact that a Zerg pretty much has 15-30 Supply (which are 1500 to 3000 Gas) How can 15-30 supply of a 150/100 2 food unit be worth 1500 to 3000 gas? It's 750-1500. Unless you mean 15-30 corruptors but that's just way too many. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:09 karpo wrote: How can 15-30 supply of a 150/100 2 food unit be worth 1500 to 3000 gas? It's 750-1500. Unless you mean 15-30 corruptors but that's just way too many. Don't corruptors cost 2 supply though? lol. Doesn't matter though. Please listen to the pod cast. They go through this stuff. Think outside of the box instead of doing the fucking same thing over and over again, and claim it's imbalanced, or come up with fake patch notes. It won't help your play whatsoever. Idra was so so close to beat MC, even though he probably went in thinking he can't beat protoss. Remember what happened to Jinro when he went up against MC a while ago, and he thought he was fucked? Yeah he got crushed, and it wasn't even close. The next GSL he had a better attitude, and he rolled MC with mech style.. something everyone had given up on vs protoss... Corruptors can turn into brood lords with a spire upgrade (News flash!).. they're not worthless supply, even if you killed off all of their collosi. | ||
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kardinal
Sweden154 Posts
It's timings. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:17 Euronyme wrote: Don't corruptors cost 2 supply though? lol. Doesn't matter though. Please listen to the pod cast. They go through this stuff. Think outside of the box instead of doing the fucking same thing over and over again, and claim it's imbalanced, or come up with fake patch notes. It won't help your play whatsoever. Idra was so so close to beat MC, even though he probably went in thinking he can't beat protoss. Remember what happened to Jinro when he went up against MC a while ago, and he thought he was fucked? Yeah he got crushed, and it wasn't even close. The next GSL he had a better attitude, and he rolled MC with mech style.. something everyone had given up on vs protoss... Corruptors can turn into brood lords with a spire upgrade (News flash!).. they're not worthless supply, even if you killed off all of their collosi. Yes Corruptors costs 2 supply. So 15-30 supply of corruptors is 7.5-15 corruptors. 100 gas each means 750 to 1500 gas. Don't know why you quoted me cause i don't play zerg and i was only correcting a exaggerated post about corruptors being bad. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On April 13 2011 17:29 walklightwhat wrote: Haven't you made your point already? Is there a reason you feel the need to continue on, not just criticizing but outright insulting and attacking Idra and his fans? Hey, I AM one of those IdrA fans. But it's getting harder and harder to root for him, to be quite honest. It's one thing to defend his BM, or flaming opponents before and during matches, or calling people faggots on the ladder. You could always explain that away as part of his competitive nature. If anything, that is what his fans and detractors respect and admire the most about IdrA; his dedication and appetite for winning. But to watch someone like IdrA not live up to his own standards of competition, or potential, is depressing. Especially when you consider how good a player he actually is. And reading arguments from his fans defending him -- essentially trying to justify 'not trying' by arguing the race is broken -- is even more saddening. I don't understand why people thinking that sympathizing with IdrA and his attitude is beneficial to the development of his game, or their own. You're wondering why I "continue on" -- the past ten pages have been filled with Zerg's complaining about why the match-up is unwinnable. Why? What are IdrA fans trying to accomplish, exactly, by arguing over and over again that ZvP is imbalanced? | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:09 karpo wrote: How can 15-30 supply of a 150/100 2 food unit be worth 1500 to 3000 gas? It's 750-1500. Unless you mean 15-30 corruptors but that's just way too many. I think it's better to lower food count of a corruptor from 2 to 1. Stats/cost adjusted. And make BL morphing cost +3 supply. That way Z doesn't worry too much about overproducing corruptors, yet BL remains the same for both food-wise and cost-wise. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
Would be the show archon of all times! | ||
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Raavi
Denmark156 Posts
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Capsize
227 Posts
On April 13 2011 18:36 Raavi wrote: Are there any NASL spoilers in e34? Only a small spoiler about Artosis' match | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
What's wrong with admitting that zergs are imbalanced? It doesn't mean you just give up. It don't mean you don't explore other strategies. Mentioning where the state of balance is, is not mutually exclusive from continually exploring and competing in the game. Personally, I'm not even sure that zerg is imbalanced. But I'd love the SOTG to have on multiple pro zergs on who would argue why it isn't or probably isn't. That could shift the opinions on zerg (im)balance throughout the community. | ||
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