Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 629

On March 24 2011 04:22 AnotherEon wrote:
People don't seem to understand that MC plays like this vs vastly inferior players too. If he CAN play safe macro games vs players like this then why doesn't he? he warpgate allin'd Ciara (off 3 gateways but he cut probes to do so) on cross position metal, this is a pretty risky strategy in itself which raises the question of why he decided to do this vs a relatively unknown player?

MC had this overly aggressive playstyle in brood war too. Thats where his nickname "Suicide Toss" came from, because he was often way too aggressive which was often to his own demise...this is pretty significant since it was much harder to attack in brood war than sc2, you really had to be sure that your attacks would deal damage or you would be significantly behind(and if you didn't cut workers it was hard to do this)

On March 24 2011 04:28 Jakkerr wrote:



I've seen games from MC on ladder on Xeph's live stream.
He had some insane macro games where he rolled people on 4-5 base.
He is certainly able to macro pretty hard but I think he just has such great gamesense that he knows what to do to win.
If u scout something and ur confident (lets say blinked stalkers will win u the game), could you look me in the eyes now and say you wouldn't do it? especially on that level.
His forcefields are the best I've ever seen, when people start playing a bit more safe and figure out a way to counter his ff's he will be forced to macro.
He's a bit the MKP of protoss if u ask me except he won a bit more ^^

On March 24 2011 04:36 AnotherEon wrote:

Sorry but doing warpgate all ins and hoping your opponent does not defend it is not scouting your opponent thinking "There is no way he can defend this".

I am not convinced by your anecdotal evidence from ladder games (which dont even matter anyway). It doesn't even matter if he CAN macro. I would be damn surprised if an ex brood war player couldn't even figure out how to play a long game in SC2. The point is that his playstyle is risky and while it will win him games it will also lose him games... it is hard to be consistant with this playstyle. Personally I am not very convinced that this guy is much better than anyone else, he is without a doubt a great player but it seems like people are bandwagoning a bit and getting carried away... (just like everytime someone wins GSL)

edit: I am also not sure what you mean by "when people learn to counter this ff's he will be forced to macro". There is no countering forcefields, MC's forcefield use isn't even why he is more successful than other protosses either...

On March 24 2011 04:01 turdburgler wrote:
but isnt all scouting an educated guess? i mean when im playing i see 4 gates and i make the assumption that this is.... a 4gate, not a FE or some kind of hidden tech. you can never know for sure what someone is doing unless you have observers covering the whole map, or 25 command centres spamming scan.

the fact hes able to accurately get a solid read on what someone is doing from a reasonable amount of scouting shows his understanding of the meta game is atleast solid?

On March 24 2011 03:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

It doesn't lose more often at similar skill levels. That's essential to the point. It's easier to make and execute an all in build than a standard build.

So if we can break down everything into two different styles, one that's riskier and one that's safer, the riskier stuff will be easier to master and the safer stuff will be harder to master. Two players with equal potential start learning SC2. One guy pursues risky style, one guy pursues safe style. The riskier player will master the game first. He'll have a higher skill level than the guy playing safe. But when the safe player's skill level catches up, he'll win more.

There's nothing wrong with MC doing what he needs to do to win. Until he starts doing other styles, we can't say what he's capable of. I think people have some irrational faith in his ability to play every protoss style better than every protoss out there, and that he's playing this way only because it's dominating so much right now. Well, I don't believe that. He would have been better at SC1 if that were true. And he must know that he depends a lot on educated guesses rather than solid information. If he could win games by acting purely on solid information all the time, he would. Then he'd really be god protoss.

On March 24 2011 04:16 AnotherEon wrote:

What do you mean you assume its a 4gate when you SEE 4gates?