Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 631

On March 24 2011 05:40 Slow Motion wrote:
Tyler is awesome. He put into words everything I've thought about MC. The SC2 guys who call him a god and worship him right now have no idea what a really great player is like. The thing that annoys me the most about MC's in-game BM is that he did a to July.

July was indeed a great player in BW. His wins were awe inspiring and beautiful in a way I've never seen from MC. MC has never accomplished what July has and I don't believe with his skills he ever will. It's like watching a cocky high school basketball player beat the current Magic Johnson 1 on 1 and then brag about it. Please, show some respect to someone who is truly greater than you are.

When Tyler says he wants to meet MC in a tournament and beat him, it made me feel like standing up and cheering. I love how much Tyler still respects the BW pros. He knows his roots and history, and would never disrespect someone like July. MC is currently Goliath with all his strength and power, but Tyler is definitely David because he stands for everything that is right and honorable in esports. Nony fighting in the TSL!!!

On March 24 2011 08:30 Scrandom wrote:


I was being mature, thought it would produce discussion

On March 24 2011 08:01 Scrandom wrote:
What Tyler was saying about how he hates MC's playstyle and he was comparing him to BW players like Bisu and Stork and how they clearly dominated their opponents, I don't think it's fair to make that comparison because SC2 is so different that the way MC played is how you win in starcraft 2 its not the same as BW.

Also I'm pretty disgusted that they are allowed to give their biased opinions on everything but the viewers who leave their counter biased opinions are ridiculed on air sarcastically. It really makes no sense, kind of a "high-horse" feeling to the show.

On March 24 2011 04:18 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:


You also have nothing to root your suspicions in his abilities then. You cannot say for a fact that Mc can or cannot play what some may proclaim as safer or standard. Why would he use other styles if he can win a boat load of money with it?

People project his abilities in the standard play style because of his talent at the game. He's a talented individual at the game, i doubt that his skills would magically slip away out of his body just because the game goes into standard mode. In my mind, it's easier to critic than emulating success. Every Protoss players try to play how Mc's playing and, they just can't. I'm not a big fan of Ming Chul, but theorizing on his talent of play style or whatnot seems absurd when the guy just won his second GSL title...

And any build takes a risk, because the opponent could always do the build that totally counters it.

On March 24 2011 08:01 Scrandom wrote:
What Tyler was saying about how he hates MC's playstyle and he was comparing him to BW players like Bisu and Stork and how they clearly dominated their opponents, I don't think it's fair to make that comparison because SC2 is so different that the way MC played is how you win in starcraft 2 its not the same as BW.

Also I'm pretty disgusted that they are allowed to give their biased opinions on everything but the viewers who leave their counter biased opinions are ridiculed on air sarcastically. It really makes no sense, kind of a "high-horse" feeling to the show.

On March 24 2011 09:09 iNcontroL wrote:


Nah. You were being a shit stirrer We are "allowed" to give our "biased opinions" because (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNN) it's OUR fucking show? We were also obligated to sarcastically ridicule the inane trolls because (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNN) it's funny.

If you watch our show and get butthurt, like actually upset, you are watching / listening to the wrong show.

On March 24 2011 07:38 Talin wrote:


The games are based on the same fundamental logic, so it's fairly certain that they're not completely different games.

If you're asking if it's possible that there's a 1 or 2 base timing attack that will end up being a player's best option in the long run and that it becomes so powerful that nothing can rival it in terms of success rate over a really long period of time (a year or so) and every player of that race ends up doing it, then I suppose there's a remote possibility that could happen with SC2. But that would also mean that the game is essentially broken, because nobody interested in SC2 wants the game to be revolving around a futuristic variant of a 4/6 Gate in 2014 - nobody would play it, and nobody would watch it because it would make no sense.

We're not talking about some sort of a "playstyle" or "vision" that MC happens to have, it's just an abuse of the fact that people haven't yet learned the game and solved the timings puzzle to the smallest detail. The SC2 we've been watching so far is really crude and rough around the edges because of it, and for me and I suppose for most people that have been following BW scene it's really hard to be genuinely impressed by the games that current SC2 programers show.

Obviously one can't hate on MC for doing it to win tournaments and cash, but it does go over the edge when you hear him say how his game is "perfect", whereas it's really really far from that.

On March 24 2011 08:34 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:


While i do not think MC is a god, he was a BW player as well. I was rooting for July at the Finals and do agree that Ming chul never really played a game that impressed me, beside his micro abilities.

But thinking that Tyler can beat MC is purely wishful thinking. I also fail at understanding why you're claiming Tyler to be this pure player, the essence of SC. The Golliath vs David analogy is quite strange to me. There's no Protoss in the world that can withstand the guy. SanZenith played brilliantly troughout the GSL and got crushed against MC. Beside if the latency is horrible, Tyler will get 2-0. The guy has the momentum. If Tyler would practice 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, for a few months, he'd stand a chance. But he won't do that, probably never will. It's too bad for him.

On March 24 2011 09:22 randplaty wrote:

I would say the scenario you posed of a 4/6 gate variant to be the center of certain matchups is already a reality. I believe Blizzard with continue to patch and therefore timing attacks will disappear but new ones will appear. I can definitely see SC2 disappearing if Blizzard isn't able to patch away a lot of these abusive timing pushes.

But a couple caveats: 1) The game right now is based on timing attacks. 2) I don't believe anyone will be able to come up with "safe" builds without serious patching from blizzard 3) Blizzard's patching philosophy is to create statistical matchup balance rather than to reduce the strength of abusive timing attacks. It's very possible that Blizzard never does anything change SC2 with regards to abusive timings and SC2 has a much shorter life than BW.

That said, the game right now is centered around these timing attacks and MC has a far better understanding of these timings than any other player and that's why he's dominating. A lot of people are assuming that players will eventually discover safe builds. As the game currently stands, I don't have any evidence that those safe builds even exist. Why not admire MC for his understanding of the game and how many different variations of timing attacks that he has and how he can utilize them in different matchups rather than disparage his play based on a completely different game (BW).

On March 24 2011 06:32 KevinIX wrote:
Incontrol and Tyler really made todays SotG a lot of fun. I hope everyone does well in MLG.

And Tyler v MC finals TSL3! Make it happen.

On March 24 2011 09:14 Scrandom wrote:


That's the thing though, I'm not getting upset. I'm giving my honest opinion and I don't understand why viewers get ridiculed because of it. Yes you're allowed to give your biased opinions because it is your show, nothing wrong with that. But other people are allowed to have a voice too even if they aren't as entitled to talk about ti as people like the members of sotg

On March 24 2011 09:59 FliedLice wrote:
It's awesome how every little bug-fart produces pages and pages of retarded, pointless, [...], idiotic discussions on this thread which could be avoided to 99% if people would actualy USE THEIR FUCKING BRAIN before posting their crap all over the place.

Good stuff.

On March 24 2011 03:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

It's not about the game as much as it's about how long people have been playing it. Ever since beta we have been saying that all in plays and strategies focusing on one strong timing will tend to dominate and win a lot. Those types of builds are really really strong and like 10 times easier to develop than the safer and more well rounded builds.