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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 299

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 06:11:12
December 01 2010 06:11 GMT
#5961
Hopefully they talk about the Bo1 format and coin flip fiasco.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
December 01 2010 06:11 GMT
#5962
I almost forgot that this was a SC2 podcast.
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
December 01 2010 06:11 GMT
#5963
anyone else just skips over any post that starts with " about extended series"

i have started doing it unconsciously.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 06:13:25
December 01 2010 06:12 GMT
#5964
On December 01 2010 15:07 pkaok23 wrote:
argument in favor of extended series:

if you're in any tournament and face a single person you're supposed to beat that one person in ONE SERIES, and not two (best of 3, best of 5, best of 7)

since it is a double elimination bracket there's a chance you will meet two times, however it's the same SERIES (but now, since you're meeting again it's a best of 7 rather than best of 3, which makes a lot of sense)

to explain it bluntly, it's as if it's the same series and there is only a break between game 3 and game 4

if some one wins 2-1 in winners bracket then loses 1-2 in the losers bracket the record between the two players is 3-3, this is why extended series (but really it's just a single series) is definitely better than not having it. if extended series wasn't there, the person who loses 1-2 in the loser's bracket would be out, rather than having a final deciding match 7th game to truly see who is best, and i don't see how that would ever be fair in a tournament scenario, seeing as it is the same tournament, regardless of what incontrol rants like an ape about to make seem important they are NOT separate situations, it's 1 series between two people in the SAME TOURNAMENT, they are not playing a new tournament just because it is double elimination, proving TRULY who is best between the two

basically incontrol just shouts very loudly to make things he says seem important or logical, however they are none of these things

i think MLG lee and liquid tyler tried to say something like this but didn't present it as well as they could have

to sum it up: incontrol is a moron, extended series is very good for a double elimination tournament scenario


The bolded is the foundation for your entire argument and is completely arbitrary, unfounded and untrue. If this is the case, tournaments has been doing it wrong for 10 years.

Either way, there is a thread for this discussion and that isn't here.
pkaok23
Profile Joined December 2010
Afghanistan9 Posts
December 01 2010 06:15 GMT
#5965
On December 01 2010 14:59 Monzterg wrote:
Player B that lost in the winner bracket has redeemed and RE EARNED A SQUARE CHANCE against player A by having player A lose to player C and at the same time beating player D and E.

He is redeemed and should not be punished in the bracket in general just because he seems to be a underdog to player A.



I hear the concept of "yes but you should be rewarded for going further in the winner bracket". But you forget that thats not fair either because at the start of the bracket every players skill is undetermined and the difference in chances of playing better players in winner bracket compared to the losers bracket is not as significant as you think.

he hasn't "RE EARNED A SQUARE CHANCE" as much as u want a double elimination format to be two different tournaments (it isn't, sorry) he's still playing in the exact same tournament as he was when he started

yes it is fair, at the start of the entire tournament every players skill level is undetermined and through out the course of the tournament their skill levels are determined by facing opponents 1 on 1 in ONE SERIES, if they face them multiple times they are still in that ONE SERIES against that 1 opponent to see who is really better, it's the same tournament, they aren't playing different tournaments, it's the same series (in the GSL the series get bigger the deeper you go in tournies, for Bo3 to Bo7, an extended series is just a BO7 DEEPER in the tourney just as it is with the GSL, the only difference is that the first 3 matches have already been played earlier in the tournament, they don't say "ok let's play a best of 3, now let's play another and whoever wins the 2nd moves on" that makes no sense)

just because it's double elimination does not mean it's any kind of reset or two different tournaments or whatever you are thinking, extended series is definitely the most fair way of determining a REAL and CLEAR CUT winner between two players
MLG_Lee
Profile Joined July 2010
279 Posts
December 01 2010 06:15 GMT
#5966
I'll reserve comments on extended series for another thread. Fundamentally, it's a philosophical difference. You either believe that a tournament bracket should have a memory of your matches, or you don't. There's some nuances to that that can be adjusted, but fundamentally, that's the line in the sand.
Twitter: @MLGLee ( https://twitter.com/#!/MLGLee )
pkaok23
Profile Joined December 2010
Afghanistan9 Posts
December 01 2010 06:15 GMT
#5967
On December 01 2010 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 15:07 pkaok23 wrote:
argument in favor of extended series:

if you're in any tournament and face a single person you're supposed to beat that one person in ONE SERIES, and not two (best of 3, best of 5, best of 7)

since it is a double elimination bracket there's a chance you will meet two times, however it's the same SERIES (but now, since you're meeting again it's a best of 7 rather than best of 3, which makes a lot of sense)

to explain it bluntly, it's as if it's the same series and there is only a break between game 3 and game 4

if some one wins 2-1 in winners bracket then loses 1-2 in the losers bracket the record between the two players is 3-3, this is why extended series (but really it's just a single series) is definitely better than not having it. if extended series wasn't there, the person who loses 1-2 in the loser's bracket would be out, rather than having a final deciding match 7th game to truly see who is best, and i don't see how that would ever be fair in a tournament scenario, seeing as it is the same tournament, regardless of what incontrol rants like an ape about to make seem important they are NOT separate situations, it's 1 series between two people in the SAME TOURNAMENT, they are not playing a new tournament just because it is double elimination, proving TRULY who is best between the two

basically incontrol just shouts very loudly to make things he says seem important or logical, however they are none of these things

i think MLG lee and liquid tyler tried to say something like this but didn't present it as well as they could have

to sum it up: incontrol is a moron, extended series is very good for a double elimination tournament scenario


The bolded is the foundation for your entire argument and is completely arbitrary, unfounded and untrue. If this is the case, tournaments has been doing it wrong for 10 years.

Either way, there is a thread for this discussion and that isn't here.

your argument: that's wrong

while not supporting this statement at all

my statement is not wrong, yours is

wow that's easy i almost sound smart, too bad you sounded like a moron
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 06:19:47
December 01 2010 06:19 GMT
#5968
On December 01 2010 15:15 pkaok23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:07 pkaok23 wrote:
argument in favor of extended series:

if you're in any tournament and face a single person you're supposed to beat that one person in ONE SERIES, and not two (best of 3, best of 5, best of 7)

since it is a double elimination bracket there's a chance you will meet two times, however it's the same SERIES (but now, since you're meeting again it's a best of 7 rather than best of 3, which makes a lot of sense)

to explain it bluntly, it's as if it's the same series and there is only a break between game 3 and game 4

if some one wins 2-1 in winners bracket then loses 1-2 in the losers bracket the record between the two players is 3-3, this is why extended series (but really it's just a single series) is definitely better than not having it. if extended series wasn't there, the person who loses 1-2 in the loser's bracket would be out, rather than having a final deciding match 7th game to truly see who is best, and i don't see how that would ever be fair in a tournament scenario, seeing as it is the same tournament, regardless of what incontrol rants like an ape about to make seem important they are NOT separate situations, it's 1 series between two people in the SAME TOURNAMENT, they are not playing a new tournament just because it is double elimination, proving TRULY who is best between the two

basically incontrol just shouts very loudly to make things he says seem important or logical, however they are none of these things

i think MLG lee and liquid tyler tried to say something like this but didn't present it as well as they could have

to sum it up: incontrol is a moron, extended series is very good for a double elimination tournament scenario


The bolded is the foundation for your entire argument and is completely arbitrary, unfounded and untrue. If this is the case, tournaments has been doing it wrong for 10 years.

Either way, there is a thread for this discussion and that isn't here.

your argument: that's wrong

while not supporting this statement at all

my statement is not wrong, yours is

wow that's easy i almost sound smart, too bad you sounded like a moron



3 posts and you've made quite the impression.

My point is the burden is on you to prove your claim. You made an arbitrary claim that is the foundation for your entire argument. Since you are the one making an argument the ball is in your court and I merely pointed out that you have the history of a decade of tournaments saying that isn't how tournaments work and you have a pretty high burden if you want us to accept your belief.

Edit: Not even worth insulting.
Licmyobelisk
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines3682 Posts
December 01 2010 06:21 GMT
#5969
can I ask who's in the cast right now? Nony, Jp, Kennigit and iNc right?
I don't think I've ever wished my opponent good luck prior to a game. When I play, I play to win. I hope every opponent I ever have is cursed with fucking terrible luck. I hope they're stuck playing underneath a stepladder with a black cat in attendance a
pkaok23
Profile Joined December 2010
Afghanistan9 Posts
December 01 2010 06:23 GMT
#5970
On December 01 2010 15:19 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 15:15 pkaok23 wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:07 pkaok23 wrote:
argument in favor of extended series:

if you're in any tournament and face a single person you're supposed to beat that one person in ONE SERIES, and not two (best of 3, best of 5, best of 7)

since it is a double elimination bracket there's a chance you will meet two times, however it's the same SERIES (but now, since you're meeting again it's a best of 7 rather than best of 3, which makes a lot of sense)

to explain it bluntly, it's as if it's the same series and there is only a break between game 3 and game 4

if some one wins 2-1 in winners bracket then loses 1-2 in the losers bracket the record between the two players is 3-3, this is why extended series (but really it's just a single series) is definitely better than not having it. if extended series wasn't there, the person who loses 1-2 in the loser's bracket would be out, rather than having a final deciding match 7th game to truly see who is best, and i don't see how that would ever be fair in a tournament scenario, seeing as it is the same tournament, regardless of what incontrol rants like an ape about to make seem important they are NOT separate situations, it's 1 series between two people in the SAME TOURNAMENT, they are not playing a new tournament just because it is double elimination, proving TRULY who is best between the two

basically incontrol just shouts very loudly to make things he says seem important or logical, however they are none of these things

i think MLG lee and liquid tyler tried to say something like this but didn't present it as well as they could have

to sum it up: incontrol is a moron, extended series is very good for a double elimination tournament scenario


The bolded is the foundation for your entire argument and is completely arbitrary, unfounded and untrue. If this is the case, tournaments has been doing it wrong for 10 years.

Either way, there is a thread for this discussion and that isn't here.

your argument: that's wrong

while not supporting this statement at all

my statement is not wrong, yours is

wow that's easy i almost sound smart, too bad you sounded like a moron



3 posts and you've made quite the impression.

My point is the burden is on you to prove your claim. You made an arbitrary claim that is the foundation for your entire argument. Since you are the one making an argument the ball is in your court and I merely pointed out that you have the history of a decade of tournaments saying that isn't how tournaments work and you have a pretty high burden if you want us to accept your belief.

Edit: Not even worth insulting.

i already proved my claim, you didn't prove yours, you obviously are too stupid to grasp any concepts i'm throwing out there and mindlessly blindly throw your arms around hoping you hit something (you didn't)

it isn't an arbitrary claim, that's just retarded, starcraft tournaments are founded on playing people and beating them in a single series, are there any starcraft tournaments out there that play two series in a row, throw the first out and say whoever wins the 2nd moves on? if there is, please present it to me, otherwise you're an absolute moron and fuck off

i made a solid argument that you absolutely failed to debunk, and no there isn't a history of a decade of tournaments saying that isn't how tournaments work, sorry that you can't actually come up with any arguments rather than "hurrr i'm right hurrr i'm going to say i'm right and say the things i'm saying are right and then i can think i'm right, not going to say anything but that i'm right hurrrrrrr"

User was temp banned for this post.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 01 2010 06:25 GMT
#5971
Geoff, OSL uses Bo1 for the groupstages.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Iracor
Profile Joined September 2010
United States66 Posts
December 01 2010 06:32 GMT
#5972
I could only imagine a 3-way tie between Day9 (From his BW days), InControl, and IdrA being decided by a coin-flip. Oh the drama that would ensue.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 01 2010 06:33 GMT
#5973
Ho god even this thread is filled with extended series shit now ><
I hope MLG will remove extended series, not because it's bad, but because extended series has ruined too much threads and podcasts already.
itungle
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States90 Posts
December 01 2010 06:34 GMT
#5974
On December 01 2010 15:25 Holgerius wrote:
Geoff, OSL uses Bo1 for the groupstages.


if you think about it, OSL is in Korea where MOSTLY SC 1 Korean Progamer (i believed) can just go with a little amount of money. Unlike DreamHack, where many of the people have to travel from COUNTRY to COUNTRY so.. Do u really feel like they should play BO 1 ( techically 3 games against 3 different players).?
Tasteless: "This turret, is it ever going to complete?" Artosis: "That turret man is like all my highschool papers. Good intentions but it was never gonna finish."
B-Wong
Profile Joined October 2010
United States240 Posts
December 01 2010 06:37 GMT
#5975
On December 01 2010 15:34 itungle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 15:25 Holgerius wrote:
Geoff, OSL uses Bo1 for the groupstages.


if you think about it, OSL is in Korea where MOSTLY SC 1 Korean Progamer (i believed) can just go with a little amount of money. Unlike DreamHack, where many of the people have to travel from COUNTRY to COUNTRY so.. Do u really feel like they should play BO 1 ( techically 3 games against 3 different players).?


Exactly. I don't think I'd ever risk not winning a BO1 after spending hundreds of dollars to go to a foreign country. If you're local that's different.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-01 06:43:19
December 01 2010 06:43 GMT
#5976
I completely agree with Incontrol that the games don't seem as great this GSL. Honestly, it seems like the level of skill has gone down since GSL 2. I'd attribute this to 1. the CONSTANT FUCKING TvZs and 2. the terran metagame being all 1base play.
eNbee
Profile Joined July 2010
Belgium487 Posts
December 01 2010 06:45 GMT
#5977
Kennigt sounds like the Jewish kid from family guy, which is awesome!
hmmmm
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
December 01 2010 06:58 GMT
#5978
On December 01 2010 15:23 pkaok23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2010 15:19 On_Slaught wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:15 pkaok23 wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:12 On_Slaught wrote:
On December 01 2010 15:07 pkaok23 wrote:
argument in favor of extended series:

if you're in any tournament and face a single person you're supposed to beat that one person in ONE SERIES, and not two (best of 3, best of 5, best of 7)

since it is a double elimination bracket there's a chance you will meet two times, however it's the same SERIES (but now, since you're meeting again it's a best of 7 rather than best of 3, which makes a lot of sense)

to explain it bluntly, it's as if it's the same series and there is only a break between game 3 and game 4

if some one wins 2-1 in winners bracket then loses 1-2 in the losers bracket the record between the two players is 3-3, this is why extended series (but really it's just a single series) is definitely better than not having it. if extended series wasn't there, the person who loses 1-2 in the loser's bracket would be out, rather than having a final deciding match 7th game to truly see who is best, and i don't see how that would ever be fair in a tournament scenario, seeing as it is the same tournament, regardless of what incontrol rants like an ape about to make seem important they are NOT separate situations, it's 1 series between two people in the SAME TOURNAMENT, they are not playing a new tournament just because it is double elimination, proving TRULY who is best between the two

basically incontrol just shouts very loudly to make things he says seem important or logical, however they are none of these things

i think MLG lee and liquid tyler tried to say something like this but didn't present it as well as they could have

to sum it up: incontrol is a moron, extended series is very good for a double elimination tournament scenario


The bolded is the foundation for your entire argument and is completely arbitrary, unfounded and untrue. If this is the case, tournaments has been doing it wrong for 10 years.

Either way, there is a thread for this discussion and that isn't here.

your argument: that's wrong

while not supporting this statement at all

my statement is not wrong, yours is

wow that's easy i almost sound smart, too bad you sounded like a moron



3 posts and you've made quite the impression.

My point is the burden is on you to prove your claim. You made an arbitrary claim that is the foundation for your entire argument. Since you are the one making an argument the ball is in your court and I merely pointed out that you have the history of a decade of tournaments saying that isn't how tournaments work and you have a pretty high burden if you want us to accept your belief.

Edit: Not even worth insulting.

i already proved my claim, you didn't prove yours, you obviously are too stupid to grasp any concepts i'm throwing out there and mindlessly blindly throw your arms around hoping you hit something (you didn't)

it isn't an arbitrary claim, that's just retarded, starcraft tournaments are founded on playing people and beating them in a single series, are there any starcraft tournaments out there that play two series in a row, throw the first out and say whoever wins the 2nd moves on? if there is, please present it to me, otherwise you're an absolute moron and fuck off

i made a solid argument that you absolutely failed to debunk, and no there isn't a history of a decade of tournaments saying that isn't how tournaments work, sorry that you can't actually come up with any arguments rather than "hurrr i'm right hurrr i'm going to say i'm right and say the things i'm saying are right and then i can think i'm right, not going to say anything but that i'm right hurrrrrrr"

User was temp banned for this post.


Wow dude, change your attitude. This isn't how we debate things here.

You're lucky you just got a temp ban, if I was a mod you'd have a neat little nuke icon next to your name right now.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 01 2010 07:03 GMT
#5979
I hear Geoff uses the Holgerius-diet. XD
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 01 2010 07:17 GMT
#5980
Did they say they went to a party in Sweden but it was full of old people that were 25yo ?
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