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On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious.
I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get.
On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
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On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
Pffft, those strategies are totally legitimate. They have a greater than 0% chance of succeeding *Quotes game from obscure tournament qualifier that X player successfully did said strategy against Y player.*
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On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
this is likely sarcasm, but, if not, welcome to the 2v2 world. artosis/day9 did strategies i have seen before on the ladder.
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Great show, but I definatly prefered the first part. (with Dan and Day9)
<3 horny Michelle 
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Around when in the vod is Tyler's speech?
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On December 16 2011 03:03 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm still waiting on someone to cut tyler's speech into a video.. I want that pretty bad.
I agree!
Does anyone have the timestamp for Tyler's speech?
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On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
Thanks for the laugh. Why do people always take not serious shit so serious lol? Also, those strategies were extremely viable for a 2v2 lulz.
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On December 15 2011 11:00 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that. gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him. what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly. imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them. if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions). edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty. I want to remind everyone that where we stand today is thanks to the existence of Gomtv. It is okay if you disagree with their decision and lose 3 respect points for them, all I'm asking is for you to have a little perspective. Gomtv was the first to set the bar high for tournament production, the first to bring us star casters, the first to provide dedicated housing and travel for foreigners, the first to promote league partnerships, the first to reach out to the West, not to mention the first to get rid of Steppes of War (all hail Gomtv). Personally I feel this was a harsh punishment (a warning would have sufficed) but if Gomtv wants to rule with an iron fist, it is their right, who am I to complain? Isn't this what separates TL from other forums? The Tl commandments is a great guideline but if you had modding duties you will surely be aware that many deserving bans do indeed fall through the cracks. Side note: where were you when Coca/Byun were getting "bullied" as you so call it?
No one is saying Gomtv hasn't done smart things in the past, or that Gomtv isn't the best organization ever in the history of the world to make a poor decision. The point he's making is that the decision, isolated from everything else, is a poor one. I have to agree. I think if this had been a repeat offense, or if they had given him some reason to believe he'd be given the boot for this, that would be one thing. However, the precedent this sets is a dangerous one for progamers. Not being one myself, I can't completely express this as well as Tyler did/does, but in what other occupation can you be immediately dismissed for a first offense in an activity that you thought was probably ok?
Let me give you an analogy. Suppose I am making copies of a report I made for my boss's big meeting. It's got dozens of huge executives there. I know this is a big deal to him, and a big deal to the executives. I tell myself "y'know what, it's late, I'm not going to bother spell-checking, I'm pretty sure everything here is fine. I've read through it a million times". That's a dumb decision - really blatantly dumb. And if it turns out that I made an "Eexctuive" report in big 24 point font on the front cover instead of an "Executive" one, then yeah - I expect my boss to be angry. I expect reprocussions. I do not expect to get fired if I'm an established professional and it's the first time I did something like that. People make mistakes.
Also, what's the standard for dismissal? Does it have to do with popular opinion? Is it written somewhere - or are they making it up as they go along? Don't get me wrong. They are well within their right to do whatever they want with their policies, but we're also well within our right to call them out when they do things we don't agree with. But if I spent as much time as it takes to get the skill up to qualify for the GSL, I'd think it was a pretty raw deal to get dismissed for intentionally playing poorly in a game that didn't matter.
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On December 16 2011 03:03 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm still waiting on someone to cut tyler's speech into a video.. I want that pretty bad.
This please! :D I haven't heard it yet!
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On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
Well when you put it that way... I demand we revoke Day9 and Artosis right to cast at tournaments and by revoke, i mean not revoke because technically they haven't been invited to cast more tournaments even though they have but we changed that and did or didn't tell people stuff because when they were invited they were invited as Day9 and Artosis and not Sean Plott and Dan Stemkoski.
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This episode was legend...wait for it...dary.
Kudos.
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The Tyler speech starts around 4.31~ (hours that is) And omg I love Tyler so much for his speech <3
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The player on mlgs homepage doesnt load the video :o why must they use it 
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On December 16 2011 07:10 Kira__ wrote:The player on mlgs homepage doesnt load the video :o why must they use it
Same, anyone have an idea how to get it to work? Disabled adblock and all that good stuff...
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well ok so I really just sat here for 4hrs and 40 min?
anyway it was a fuckin great show, loved it! see you in 2012!
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Just finished watching the vod.
I think Tyler made the best points (as per usual) regarding the Naniwa incident. I can understand Incontrol's standpoint but i'd of found his level of disagreement more reasonable if he'd of been just as outraged when Idra forfeited the games at IPL, not that i'm saying Idra's decision was wrong but i think you could apply the same arguments of sponsor representation and fan satisfaction to that situation. Fortunately Incontrol saved it at the end with the Mia Rose trolling. That was fucking hilarious don't know why people had a problem with it.
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On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games.
Hahaha I was wondering if I would see something like this. I like the cut of your jib.
..... what's a jib.
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On December 16 2011 05:22 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 05:11 Nydaeli wrote:On December 16 2011 04:37 CallousCarter wrote:
2v2s were pretty funny.
And by pretty funny i mean fucking hilarious. I think Day9 and Artosis's behavior was totally inappropriate. Tyler and Incontrol went in prepared to play a real match in front of thousands of spectators, and Day9 and Artosis essentially threw two games in a row with stupid cheese strategies. They totally disrespected the SOTG institution and they deserve whatever punishment they get. On the other hand, the games didn't matter so they can't really be blamed for not taking them seriously. JP is also at fault for making them play inconsequential games. Thanks for the laugh. Why do people always take not serious shit so serious lol? Also, those strategies were extremely viable for a 2v2 lulz.
It's people like you who drag our community down. Day9 and Artosis need to be punished for what they've done.
+ Show Spoiler +He was being sarcastic  .
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Oh dear lord Incontrol's answer to the marry/kill question actually killed me haha
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EPT
