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On December 15 2011 05:09 Niyanyo wrote:
Keep it honest and from the heart guys, congratulations.
^^ THIS
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On December 15 2011 04:57 ChuCky.Ca wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:43 JoeAWESOME wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:
"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right."
Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012.
VOD will be up soon, MP3 is already up. Will edit this with link for VOD when its done processing in Brightcove. Awesome. Just waiting for the VoD to come up!  Have heard so much about the episode. How many people tuned in? peek was 28k
I think thats a pretty good number considering that basicly no european could watch it live.
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On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:
"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right."
Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012.
VOD will be up soon, MP3 is already up. Will edit this with link for VOD when its done processing in Brightcove.
No, Thank You Good Sir!
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On December 15 2011 05:16 bLooD. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:57 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On December 15 2011 04:43 JoeAWESOME wrote:On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:
"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right."
Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012.
VOD will be up soon, MP3 is already up. Will edit this with link for VOD when its done processing in Brightcove. Awesome. Just waiting for the VoD to come up! Have heard so much about the episode. How many people tuned in? peek was 28k I think thats a pretty good number considering that basicly no european could watch it live.
Starting at 4am on a wednesday morning is a slight problem for most, yes. Id usually watch, but i had something on and had to sleep, aparantly it went on like 5 hours?
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On December 15 2011 04:38 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:16 labbe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that. gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him. what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly. imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them. if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions). edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty. Thank you! It's nice to see some intelligent posts every once in a while. If "doing anything they don't expect" means stuff like throwing a game in the most obvious way possible i'm fully supporting them inflicting fear into the players. seriously, what is so hard to understand about this or why can you even argue about this action not being smart? What happened? A professional gamer lost an aired game because he did not feel like playing "serious" because he dropped out of the tournament... Oh wait, it's actually WAY worse, he did not just "not play serious", he did drop the game on purpose. He even made it in a way that it was obvious to absolutely everyone by taking his hand of the keyboard and using a "strategy" with a 100% loss-chance. There is like nothing worse he could have done. Not joining the game would have been better. Faking a heart attack during the game would have been better. But what he did was like the worst possible "answer" to not wanting to play a game that did not matter. He got punished for dropping a game. It does not even matter if the game had a purpose. Dropping a game in the way he did is just the worst thing a progamer can do. You want professional Esports? Then act professional.
Are you actually that dense and immoral that you think that faking a heart attack is better than what he did ? You know that faking a heart attack would actually cause real harm compared to throwing a meaningless game in entertainment industry that has no real societal implications apart Koreans and some other people being "offended" ?
Why is dropping a game like he did the worst thing he could do ? I would expect clearly dropping a game to be much better than dropping a game "unclearly" as it makes it much clearer for the purpose of preventing the whole "Savior"-like scenarios. Of course the best solution would be to forfeit it upfront, but he did something that was closest possible to forfeiting. People that say it would be better if he played 4-gate/2-gate or whatever seem to not see how much worse it is as it can actually be considered regular game and therefore introduces uncertainty. This way at least everything is quite transparent, except GOM.tvs reaction.
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And to switch to a positive attitude, SoTG is the best (with D9Dailies) show that I watch, and I do not mean only in esports Hope for another year of fun and thanks for doing the show.
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On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that. gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him. what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly. imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them. if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions). edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty.
Hmm, wasnt you guys drunk on last nights "State of the Game"!? There is no way that anyone can reason this well while having a hangover! I refuse to believe it! or could it be, that I have underestimated the brains of pro sc2 players? 
Nah seriously, well said. The way GOM has acted is imo the bigger wrong in all of this. A company of that size has a bigger responsibility, then a lone player, to act in an understanding way when it comes to matters involving different perspectives, cultural or personal.
Imagine if the the company, BLIZZARD, now decided that GOM's actions in this matter has made "Westerners" view BLIZZARD in a more negative way. And decides to punish GOM in a way they deem fit, but that KERRIGAN, The wicked queen of the ZERG, sees as a way to hard punishment and a direct insult to the ways of the ZERG. ZERG do not kill an leave valuable meat to rot...
Looking forward to the VOD
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OMG VOD IS UP YAYYY! !! ! ! ! !!!!
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On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:
"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right."
Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012.
VOD will be up soon, MP3 is already up. Will edit this with link for VOD when its done processing in Brightcove.
Was the best sotg ever, even the bit with mia rose was great in it's own way.. :D
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3rd watch, waited for this! Now the evening is filled up. :-)
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Have been waiting all day for this VoD, can't wait to watch : D
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On December 15 2011 05:18 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:38 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:16 labbe wrote:On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that. gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him. what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly. imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them. if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions). edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty. Thank you! It's nice to see some intelligent posts every once in a while. If "doing anything they don't expect" means stuff like throwing a game in the most obvious way possible i'm fully supporting them inflicting fear into the players. seriously, what is so hard to understand about this or why can you even argue about this action not being smart? What happened? A professional gamer lost an aired game because he did not feel like playing "serious" because he dropped out of the tournament... Oh wait, it's actually WAY worse, he did not just "not play serious", he did drop the game on purpose. He even made it in a way that it was obvious to absolutely everyone by taking his hand of the keyboard and using a "strategy" with a 100% loss-chance. There is like nothing worse he could have done. Not joining the game would have been better. Faking a heart attack during the game would have been better. But what he did was like the worst possible "answer" to not wanting to play a game that did not matter. He got punished for dropping a game. It does not even matter if the game had a purpose. Dropping a game in the way he did is just the worst thing a progamer can do. You want professional Esports? Then act professional. Are you actually that dense and immoral that you think that faking a heart attack is better than what he did ? You know that faking a heart attack would actually cause real harm compared to throwing a meaningless game in entertainment industry that has no real societal implications apart Koreans and some other people being "offended" ? Why is dropping a game like he did the worst thing he could do ? I would expect clearly dropping a game to be much better than dropping a game "unclearly" as it makes it much clearer for the purpose of preventing the whole "Savior"-like scenarios. Of course the best solution would be to forfeit it upfront, but he did something that was closest possible to forfeiting. People that say it would be better if he played 4-gate/2-gate or whatever seem to not see how much worse it is as it can actually be considered regular game and therefore introduces uncertainty. This way at least everything is quite transparent, except GOM.tvs reaction.
The proper way to protest against useless matches like this is to play it out and contact your manager / tournament organizers afterwards and tell them this doesn't fly.
It's not the proper way to make mockery of the audience, your opponent and the tournament. Banning him from Code S is too harsh, but some punishment was totally called for.
When your game is aired and at that level, you are part player part showman and you owe it to the event and audience to keep up appearances. For most matches this is "invisible" as audience is there to watch 2 top players duking it out and that's np for games where results matter.
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VOD!!!!
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On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot. No he actually earned that spot. yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot. anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons. They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money." Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa. i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way. i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event...
I'm legitimately confused here. As a progamer, you don't think this is implicit? That when you're participating in a broadcasted match of a premier event, "trying your hardest" (or at least trying A LITTLE) is not required if you've had a bad first three games? In what professional setting is that NOT the expectation? I don't recall seeing anyone probe rush in NASL after being eliminated, and players who didn't show up were punished in some way. I'm not saying GOM's action (which I agree with you was severe) was the best punishment, but do you conceede that some form of repercussion was called for?
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I'm only like 15 minutes in but this shit is fucking great!
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On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right." Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012. VOD and MP3 are up http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2011/12/sotg-ep60.html
Lost his passion.
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On December 15 2011 04:41 itmeJP wrote:"When you start to wonder why someone is still paying you money, that's when you're doing it right." Last night was a big milestone for me for many reasons. The biggest being we had our largest live audience ever and the funniest being I somehow managed to do shoutouts and play the outro song while not remembering a thing. I just wanted to tell you guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You've made State of the Game something myself and the other hosts look forward to every Tuesday and I can't wait to start doing it again in 2012. VOD and MP3 are up http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2011/12/sotg-ep60.html
Another great show as always JP. I hope that you and the rest of the guys realize how much the community loves the show and loves you guys for doing it! I have been watching since shortly before the first drunk episode and I look forward to it every week. I will second a previous poster by saying this was the starcraft 2 community's office christmas party! So many great moments in one show and you guys are so great for staying up and keeping it going instead of cutting it short when you got tired/wasted!
Enjoy the break, get some rest, then hurry back in 2012 so you guys can keep us laughing! We <3 y'all.
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EPT
