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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1947

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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Golbat
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States499 Posts
December 14 2011 21:58 GMT
#38921
On December 15 2011 06:32 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 06:29 svefnleysi wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:28 Velr wrote:
It's not about probe rushing. It's about obviously dropping a game which ii could call "pissing all over the tournament, the fans and everyone else involved" .

Yet no one gave a shit when Idra forfeited a game in IPL3 group play.


Which is IPL to blame for.
It's not GOM's fault when other tournaments don't enact their rules.

Oh and forfeiting is not the same as actually playing but losin gon purpose.


In essence, it's just a faster way of doing the same thing.

I don't see why everyone is so pissed about this. It was Nani's game to play, and he decided to get it over with. If it was match fixing, it would have been a different story, but seeing as there's no way he would have fixed a 100% inconsequential match (lol what's the point?) everyone needs to simmer the fuck down.
Like why do u use an oven instead of a fire? Coz its fucking better at cooking, that doesnt mean you want the shit to burn.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
December 14 2011 21:59 GMT
#38922
On December 15 2011 06:00 Longshank wrote:
Tournament rules never cover every possible scenario. By Tyler's logic they shouldn't be able to revoke the invite had he peed on the floor since their rules does not cover it. The could have pressed charges and have him pay up but they could not kick him out of the league.

Do I have to explain why this is a fucked up argument?


Bro if he peed on the floor on live camera in front of everyone that's a public crime.
HobNob
Profile Joined November 2011
5 Posts
December 14 2011 22:00 GMT
#38923
imagine if a team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in any sports league you care to imagine. That team requests to forfeit the remaining games. They are not allowed. They throw the game.

How would the fans react?

GOM's responsibility is to me, a money paying fan, not to an unprofessional child. I paid money to watch competitive, entertaining, games. I didn't fully receive that. Am I entitled to some of my money back?

Trying to excuse Naniwa's actions in any way is wrong. There is no excuse for ignorance or petulance.
fumo
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland13 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:01:18
December 14 2011 22:00 GMT
#38924
Naniwa just acted like a spoiled brat (which he probably is).
Many players (even pros) would be very grateful for the opportunity to play with Nestea in such a international tournament with thousands of fans watching. The situation wasn't great? Well guess what - this is life - you want to achieve something, sometimes you have to do some things you don't like... Seriously, in 99% of other jobs ppl deal with far worse shit everyday and Naniwa can't be bothered to play one more game.
And I don't buy this crap about him doing this because he felt he coudn't play his best. I mean he probably coudn't but I don't think that was the reason. He just wanted to show everyone how angry he is and I also think he probably was too scared to play with Nestea seriously because he coundn't handle the thought of another loss, especially with his rival.
Monasou
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States218 Posts
December 14 2011 22:13 GMT
#38925
Tyler is so smart guys.
353 Monasou ♥
desty
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada142 Posts
December 14 2011 22:26 GMT
#38926
Guys , If you want people to consider Starcraft as a Sport, then let's use the Sports Rules alright?

Any Pro Team in the world, has to play let's say 80 games in a regular season, Then there is the playoffs.

If a team is really bad and is 20-50 and has no chance of doing the playoffs, do they all stay home and don't play the last 10games? and i mean they are still trying....

Then what Naniwa did is lack of professionalism and good conduct.

He's known to be bad manner, he's been bad manner in wc3 still bad manner in sc2. He's playing in one of the most notorious tournament in the world and still do stupid shit like shit?

I guess GSL has a Hidden rule, that everyone needs to a professional player in their league, not cry babies.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
December 14 2011 22:34 GMT
#38927
So did the 2on2's happen?
Ghostface_Killa
Profile Joined March 2011
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:43:49
December 14 2011 22:41 GMT
#38928
On December 15 2011 03:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 02:47 Whitewing wrote:
On December 15 2011 02:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On December 15 2011 02:28 Condor Hero wrote:
On December 15 2011 02:25 -Archangel- wrote:
On December 15 2011 02:19 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
i lost three respect points for gomtv for kicking naniwa

except they didn't kick him but only didn't choose him for Code S spot.

No he actually earned that spot.

yep he earned it from MLG Providence, getting 2nd to Leenock who was already in Code S. if gomtv doesn't agree with that, then they need to take it up with MLG and there are much more serious problems afoot.

anyway, the reason they lost respect is because they're doing something that isn't optimal for anyone or anything. as far as i can tell, the only explanation for this move is that they've made it personal with naniwa and they just want to hurt him. and unlike naniwa, who made a bad decision when in a situation where it's very difficult to think clearly and have a good perspective, gomtv folks actually took their time responding to this incident, so that they could think perfectly clearly about it and consult people and get a good perspective and make the best move possible. and yet they still do something that's more destructive than constructive, same as naniwa. and i think that falling back on cultural differences is just insulting their critical thinking ability and their competence as international businessmen. that is, if they were competent at their jobs and were able
to think like intelligent adults, they would not do non-optimal things for cultural reasons.


They're doing it for business reasons. They need to send the message that it's not okay to do things like this, so this punishment accomplishes that. It tells the viewers "this is a serious competition, every match, and we want to keep it that way so you get value for your money."

Whether it's a good business decision is another question, but I seriously doubt they are doing it to be vindictive towards Naniwa.

i dont know what punishing naniwa by revoking the code S spot he earned accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished in any other way.

i have already discussed this issue with a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people and one of the points that is pretty much universally agreed upon is that the organization running the competition is in the best position to prevent this from happening. they prevent it from happening by removing any possibility for inconsequential games and by making sure players know in advance that they will be required to try their hardest in every match in order to participate in their event. the most effective way of preventing it is certainly not making an example out of the guy who did it ignorantly. no one has ever suggested that.

gomtv decides to act on a very vague rule with a very severe punishment, why? naniwa's offense was not clearly defined going into the tournament and there was no hint at what the punishment would be at all. i can't read the original korean, so i can't speak with complete confidence, but it seems to me like the application of the rule they cite is quite a stretch based on the translation. and they just make up a punishment when someone breaks it. they're very far removed from proper and effective use of a system of rules and penalties. they certainly were not compelled by their own rules to do what they did. so using this rule is an excuse to punish him.

what this move accomplishes business-wise is to make everyone working with them fear them. if you do anything that they don't expect, anything that they weren't clear on or didn't bring up at all, and it works against them, then you should expect a very severe response from them. even if they set you up to do something that's bad for them, they'll still not say anything beforehand and if you go ahead and do something that's bad for them, they retaliate harshly.

imo the standard good business philosophy is to cover your ass as much as possible. and when a business fails to do so, it minimizes damages and learns and fixes the problem for the future. if you are the big kid on the block and you wanna be a bully, then yeah you can be careless and when something goes wrong, don't admit fault and then slap the other guy down and make everyone hate him. if they really think that's optimal, then i'll admit that i don't know everything they know about their own business, so i can't press that too hard. all i can say is it's very improbable that that is optimal. and even if it is optimal for their own business, it's not optimal for the industry. so even if you do want to shield them with "they're just doing what they think is best for their business" i still lose 3 respect points for them.

if they owned up to their mistake and stood by naniwa, then i think this is a situation where it's quite possible to use propaganda (not in an evil deceptive way, but legitimate propaganda to get the masses to understand your decision and agree with it) to make themselves look good, make naniwa look good (which they want because he's in their league and he's one of the few foreigners, extra valuable to them) and make their league look stronger than ever heading into the new year. but no, they're apparently incapable of that (either because of incompetence or emotions).

edit: apparently the conduct rule wasnt used in the official explanation. if that's true, then it's even worse. they went from having a rule that, when stretched, barely is reasonable, to having no rule and just a spontaneous penalty.


Tyler, you make some very fine points but you're making it seem as if Naniwa did what he did out of ignorance, which is not the case. He knew what he was doing, and did so out of selfish immaturity.

Edit: btw I'm surprised you're so up in arms about this considering your background in BW, where KeSPA has been known to DQ players for accidentally pausing games. Are you surprised GOM is any less lenient?
Arrested for what, baby? Being awesome?
Bozotclown
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom60 Posts
December 14 2011 22:42 GMT
#38929
Why would anybody want to see a shitty meaningless game that two players would only pretend to care about. Naniwa did me as a viewer a huge fucking favour. I haven't got time to spend watching meaningless and poor quality matches to show how "professional" they are.
Dicks Everywhere
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
December 14 2011 22:47 GMT
#38930
On December 15 2011 07:42 Bozotclown wrote:
Why would anybody want to see a shitty meaningless game that two players would only pretend to care about. Naniwa did me as a viewer a huge fucking favour. I haven't got time to spend watching meaningless and poor quality matches to show how "professional" they are.



If you didn't want to watch it, couldn't you have just turned the stream off?
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
softan
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden113 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#38931
On December 15 2011 07:47 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:42 Bozotclown wrote:
Why would anybody want to see a shitty meaningless game that two players would only pretend to care about. Naniwa did me as a viewer a huge fucking favour. I haven't got time to spend watching meaningless and poor quality matches to show how "professional" they are.



If you didn't want to watch it, couldn't you have just turned the stream off?


Of course he couldn't It's starcraft you can't stop watching that no matter how meaningless it is.
Bozotclown
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom60 Posts
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#38932
Turn the stream off and then what? There were other meaningful matches to be played after it.
Dicks Everywhere
cvt
Profile Joined November 2011
United States192 Posts
December 14 2011 22:54 GMT
#38933
.. we're even arguing about the naniwa situation in this thread? ahhh I can't get away from it.

Anyway, great drunk episode. Tyler and iNcontroL especially entertaining.
SCbiff
Profile Joined May 2010
110 Posts
December 14 2011 23:05 GMT
#38934


I agree completely. It's easy to demonize NaNiWa, from a fan's perspective. We wanted to see that game. I wanted to see that game. It sucks that we didn't get to, but, we can all agree: that game was pointless. NaNiWa made a bad decision, but how different was this from him doing a proxy 2-gate? Or from doing a 4gate?


The game was NOT pointless. I wish people would quit saying that. You wanted to see it, I wanted to see it, and a whole bunch of other people, people that are (indirectly) paying Naniwa, wanted to see it. Yes, this game was not going to influence tournament standings, but it was far from "pointless."
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 23:08:25
December 14 2011 23:07 GMT
#38935
On December 15 2011 07:34 CruelZeratul wrote:
So did the 2on2's happen?


Yes and it was glorious.

On December 15 2011 08:05 SCbiff wrote:
Show nested quote +


I agree completely. It's easy to demonize NaNiWa, from a fan's perspective. We wanted to see that game. I wanted to see that game. It sucks that we didn't get to, but, we can all agree: that game was pointless. NaNiWa made a bad decision, but how different was this from him doing a proxy 2-gate? Or from doing a 4gate?


The game was NOT pointless. I wish people would quit saying that. You wanted to see it, I wanted to see it, and a whole bunch of other people, people that are (indirectly) paying Naniwa, wanted to see it. Yes, this game was not going to influence tournament standings, but it was far from "pointless."


In a stream for the blizzard cup it is pointless as it has no standing on how the tournament is going.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
December 14 2011 23:08 GMT
#38936
The vod goes back to the start whenever you try to skip ahead. Ugh...
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
ilikeredheads
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1995 Posts
December 14 2011 23:09 GMT
#38937
the best part was the mia rose and Destiny being the biggest asshole.....and day9 not getting the joke....LOL
Bozotclown
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom60 Posts
December 14 2011 23:12 GMT
#38938
Fuck the blizzard cup, it had no meaning at all. The players are not going to fucking play well in a meaningless game, its pointless anyway you look at it. If you want to see two players play a game neither of them care about you are a moron.
Dicks Everywhere
fumo
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland13 Posts
December 14 2011 23:20 GMT
#38939
On December 15 2011 08:12 Bozotclown wrote:
Fuck the blizzard cup, it had no meaning at all. The players are not going to fucking play well in a meaningless game, its pointless anyway you look at it. If you want to see two players play a game neither of them care about you are a moron.

Well they (or rather he) should care - just because there was thousands of fan watching and also it's his f***in job. Also if he managed to won with Nestea it would look much better than going 0:4 in group.
Gov
Profile Joined November 2010
United States121 Posts
December 14 2011 23:22 GMT
#38940
Anyone got a link to this mia rose/demuslim picture? I didn't see it and can't find it.
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