On December 01 2011 00:59 Tyree wrote: Ive been following this show since beta, and ive never been angry or pissed no matter what was discussed, german accents, korean food, europeans whatever, but hearing that players are treating casters like crap made my blood boil.
Amazing that they have been able to hold this in, shows they are better men than most of us. Had it been me i would have simply lost my shit and if was Nick i would have gone over and rammed that piece of shit head into the computer monitor.
Well, Huk said that he made that comment based on something Tastless did/had done in the past, but we never got to know what.
Disqualify players who even show alittle bit of attitude in chat, make a example out of the next one who even dares. Who do these clowns think they are? They arent bigger than the game, nor any big tournament. They arent Michael Jordan or LeBron James, they dont have that kind of pull.
Idra said that players have more to lose n tournaments, so they are entitled to be pampered concerning these kind of issuies.
Good show as usual. I would like to comment on the NASL thing they were talking about. The reason I (and maybe its only me but I doubt it) didn't watch NASL this season was the lack of free HD. Last season 480 was doable - although not desirable, I could deal with it. This season the free stream was 240 or 360, and I simply didn't want to watch SC2 in that bad of quality when there was IPL streaming in glorious 1080 for free. I will watch the finals, but if there is no free HD (or at least 480) I will treat season 3 just like season 2 and not watch it. And it sucks, because there were probably amazing games played that I missed, but I don't really care.
On November 30 2011 21:05 Kira__ wrote: can't help but feel that artosis is refering to a couple of famous swedish bmers, both from mlg and dreamhack
well he kinda got put in his place by huk
artosis with the 10 hour day maybe 1 weekend in 4 when huk works 10 hours a day every day. atleast at an mlg artosis gets rotated out etc where as some of the players have complained about having to be available to play non stop.
theres no need for a player to be rude but when you hear from huk that tasteless said something pretty bm too i think artosis is just being a whiny bitch that some times people in really stressful situations, playing for huge amounts of money, and their careers as a whole sometimes get a bit mad.
On November 30 2011 21:05 Kira__ wrote: can't help but feel that artosis is refering to a couple of famous swedish bmers, both from mlg and dreamhack
well he kinda got put in his place by huk
artosis with the 10 hour day maybe 1 weekend in 4 when huk works 10 hours a day every day. atleast at an mlg artosis gets rotated out etc where as some of the players have complained about having to be available to play non stop.
theres no need for a player to be rude but when you hear from huk that tasteless said something pretty bm too i think artosis is just being a whiny bitch that some times people in really stressful situations, playing for huge amounts of money, and their careers as a whole sometimes get a bit mad.
... The way I understood it, HuK brought up another viewpoint, with which Artosis agreed. No one was "put in their place", nor did anyone accuse anyone of being a "whiny bitch".
Artosis brought up an emergent issue within the pro scene, which is that some players are venting their frustration at the casters (/admins/staff) in a wholly unprofessional manner, and that this needs to stop, and that tournament organizations must be ready to take action against the offenders, and the community should accept those decisions should they be necessary.
HuK presented the problem that the players are often treated less than ideally (to put it politely), forced to sit and wait unnecessarily long time periods before games start etc.
HuK, iirc, agreed that players shouldn't take it out on the casters, and Artosis agreed that players need to be treated better and hoped that the different organizations behind the events would take players and in particular their comfort level better into account in the following year.
Both brought up valid points, with which both agreed (as did Sheth, Tyler etc.), and I didn't sense any disagreement between them. (Indeed, HuK's original tweet and the following appearance on SOTG were due to his (mis)understanding that Artosis was referring to some exchange between HuK and Tasteless, which Artosis waved off)
I'm having trouble understanding how some people have considered the two guys to have squared off on this subject, when they simply, to my mind, brought up perhaps similar but adjunct (not opposing) issues in the current professional SC2 tournament culture.
On December 01 2011 03:50 price wrote: listening to the podcast now and just heard artosis rant - i can think of a few hotheaded players that might be doing that shit.
I am pretty sure it is a limited number of players, but none of them should be having a confrontational relationship with the caster. That is like a tennis player freaking out at the camera guy on the side of the court because their next set is delayed due to a commerical. It is dumb and they should be called out for it. The only reason they do it is because they believe no one notices.
Idra said that players have more to lose n tournaments, so they are entitled to be pampered concerning these kind of issuies.
Just because they have more to lose doesn't mean they should be pussies about it.
Agreed. A lot of pro-gamers are immature and all artosis is asking for is a little professionalism. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I know that Idra specifically has had problems with Day[9] choosing to replay games right before the next one starts, which delays the next game by a large amount of time. There's certainly things to be said about professionalism, but at the same time, players should definitely voice complaints about unreasonable delays, especially ones that are the caster's doings.
On December 01 2011 03:50 price wrote: listening to the podcast now and just heard artosis rant - i can think of a few hotheaded players that might be doing that shit.
I am pretty sure it is a limited number of players, but none of them should be having a confrontational relationship with the caster. That is like a tennis player freaking out at the camera guy on the side of the court because their next set is delayed due to a commerical. It is dumb and they should be called out for it. The only reason they do it is because they believe no one notices.
It is stupid to put a commercial in it. The players are not playing it for the TV/Stream but for the win, they just want to play, focus on the game and not getting interrupted in the middle of a match (read: series) for a commercial. Ofc it is not good to insult the camera man for that, but it has to be understandable to be angry as a player.
Whatever happened between Tasteless and Huk was probably just a one off, and not really part of the greater discussion.
Players are frustrated with bad tournament organization that makes them wait around a lot when they would rather be playing, eating, or going to the washroom. They only really interact with casters so they vent their frustration by being rude to the casters. Casters don't have control over the situation either because they are told by production people to stand by, stall for time between games, then to play commercials. Casters don't feel it's fair that players vent on them for problems associated with tournament organization that they have no control over. Huk's bit about "sometimes we invite a caster into the game and they don't join" makes it sound like casters are purposely not starting games, when a little bit of thinking makes it obvious that's not the case. If the casters aren't joining a game, it's because production people told them not to start a game yet, not because they're trying to piss off players. Casters would rather start the game too, since stalling for time clearly makes them uncomfortable compared to casting a game.
There is the one exception of Day9 sometimes doing quick runs through a replay between games. However, that's usually because of a technical or scheduling issue where he is told to kill time. If there isn't a technical or scheduling delay that requires him to kill time, he shouldn't do it, but I'm pretty sure he's only done replays when he was told to kill time. Maybe the players weren't told about the need to kill time so from their perspective it was Day9 delaying their game, but if it's really the tournament organizers, maybe they should do a better job of letting players know what's going on. If Day9 is sometimes doing this on his own (which is possible, but the only time I can remember him doing it was during a technical problem delay), players should tell him in a mature way that they don't like it and request that he save the replay to go over later instead of making fun of him.
Instead of making this out to be players vs casters, they are all missing the point and that is that it's tournament organization that is the problem. If tournaments smoothed out their schedules and stopped having people sit around waiting for unknown periods of time, everyone would be happier. For example, as Idra proposed, why don't they hand out those wireless restaurant buzzers to players and only buzz them when things are set up, commercials have been run, and production is ready for them to play? What about a 1 hour break in the middle of events for food and washroom breaks, for EVERYONE, and have the time filled with previously recorded video interviews or going over replays then?
Instead of players bitching out casters and making rude outbursts, they should be telling their managers to pressure the tournament organizers for change. Casters have almost as little control over the running of a tournament as the players. Yes casters should be more careful about not offending players when they are really emotional, but for the most part they seem to be doing their job correctly, as are the players. Really public angry outbursts like Naniwa calling MLG a joke tournament in-game, on stream, is not the mature, professional, or correct way to solve tournament organization problems.
Artosis brought up an emergent issue within the pro scene, which is that some players are venting their frustration at the casters (/admins/staff) in a wholly unprofessional manner, and that this needs to stop, and that tournament organizations must be ready to take action against the offenders, and the community should accept those decisions should they be necessary.
HuK presented the problem that the players are often treated less than ideally (to put it politely), forced to sit and wait unnecessarily long time periods before games start etc.
Reminds me of when the NBA had a crackdown on players a few years ago for dressing like jackasses while on the bench, or yelling and cursing out referees during the game.
In order for e-sports to become mainstream, it's going to have to overcome it's 'perception problem'.
The NBA is predominantly Black, and the league recognized it would have to go out of it's way to prove that it wasn't a league of gangsters and thugs. Players are expected to do more charity work than every other league, for instance.
E-sports has to acknowledge their perception problem: that players are a bunch of malnourished, skinny, raging nerds. When you bring up the concept of 'professional gamer' to the average person, they don't imagine a charismatic, mature or intelligent person with any real talent -- they imagine a sad loser nerd in a darkroom next to a Kleenex box jacked up on Jolt cola.
When players mistreat commentators or vice-versa, it reinforces negative stereotypes of the scene. As emotional as the game can be sometimes, having a public hissy-fit is not good for the sport overall.
EPT
