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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1836

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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Junichi
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany1056 Posts
November 30 2011 20:20 GMT
#36701
On December 01 2011 05:16 demitap wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 03:48 Let it Raine wrote:
we need a one time thing where artosis/tyler/day9/tasteless/incontrol/idra/whoever else

just get together and talk about some of the greatest brood war stories they have

make it happen.


that would be... AWESOME.


That would indeed be cool... :D

(And then host the vod on a page where I can watch it... )
"Until the very, very top, in almost anything all that matters, is how much work you put in. The only problem is that most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for." - Greg "IdrA" Fields
DennizR
Profile Joined May 2007
Sweden653 Posts
November 30 2011 20:25 GMT
#36702
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 04:25 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:24 Tarotis wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:22 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:10 iNcontroL wrote:
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.


Yeah.. what a joke.. he won a WCG and a MSL..

LOL @ random forum hero not knowing shit.


may I ask which WCG he won? (Didn't check odd games like Guitar Hero and Red Stone)

maybe he switched foru with forgg/fin?


can't be, only random forum heroes would do that.

ForGG is still one of the best, if not the best, BW player to switch though.


Yeah my mistake.. he only won an MSL.

O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is?


Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive.
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2012 Posts
November 30 2011 20:27 GMT
#36703
On December 01 2011 05:25 DennizR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:25 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:24 Tarotis wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:22 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:10 iNcontroL wrote:
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.


Yeah.. what a joke.. he won a WCG and a MSL..

LOL @ random forum hero not knowing shit.


may I ask which WCG he won? (Didn't check odd games like Guitar Hero and Red Stone)

maybe he switched foru with forgg/fin?


can't be, only random forum heroes would do that.

ForGG is still one of the best, if not the best, BW player to switch though.


Yeah my mistake.. he only won an MSL.

O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is?


Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive.


+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


User was warned for this post
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
November 30 2011 20:28 GMT
#36704
^ Pretty sure DennizR was being sarcastic, but cute picture nonetheless.
Luck makes talent look like genius.
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
November 30 2011 20:45 GMT
#36705
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 04:25 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:24 Tarotis wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:22 TBO wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:10 iNcontroL wrote:
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.


Yeah.. what a joke.. he won a WCG and a MSL..

LOL @ random forum hero not knowing shit.


may I ask which WCG he won? (Didn't check odd games like Guitar Hero and Red Stone)

maybe he switched foru with forgg/fin?


can't be, only random forum heroes would do that.

ForGG is still one of the best, if not the best, BW player to switch though.


Yeah my mistake.. he only won an MSL.

O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is?


It's definitely a big deal, but the irony is still inescapable. :D
rpa.Vesi
Profile Joined November 2011
United States2 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-30 21:18:07
November 30 2011 21:17 GMT
#36706
On December 01 2011 04:57 OuchyDathurts wrote:
It's just a weird situation where the casters are "in the same room" (game) with the players themselves so there's this crossfire. Every other pro sport the guy on the TV casting the game is removed from the game itself. Marv Albert isn't putting up with the players directly, the players aren't dealing with him, it all falls on the refs/coaches to deal with the players during the game.


This really needed to be said. It's almost like a breach in the third wall. Players already know that commentators are scrutinizing every decision they make; to top that off with having the casters put in charge of when they're even allowed to play is bound to cause problems for both parties. Controls like these should be handled by a third party who players and casters can abuse at their own peril. I can explain it better from experience actually.

You see, I used to be that third party. I was an umpire throughout highschool, and my job, most of the time, was just to verify events which transpired in the game. But anybody could do that. My real job was to take flak from parents, players, and coaches when hard decisions had to be made. If things got too heated, I could dispassionately make threats to throw people out of games and so on. The beautiful thing was that most of my training was only in how to handle disgruntled spectators and participants, not in the rules of baseball. Basically, in baseball, everybody knows enough about the rules to manage and call a game themselves, but because people are emotionally invested in the success of one team or another, this becomes difficult if not impossible to do. To resolve this problem, baseball assigns all of the responsibility to one (hopefully) unbiased individual. And by responsibility, I mean blame. In every single game I worked where I made a tough call, I'd get screamed at and booed. (Especially the little league games. . . I've actually never thrown coaches out of games except in little league matches. Why would you cuss out a fifteen year old umpire over whether or not a SEVEN year old touched the plate first? Was a box of Pepperidge Farm's Goldfish on the line or something?!) Imagine if the teams were making these decisions and shouting one another down instead of just some jerk umpire who's obviously payed to be mean to them and steal their delicious goldfish(es). Rioting 7 year olds, that's what.

With casters v players, the situation is obviously different, but if the casters are being given controls over when games start or when players can take breaks (even if these controls are superficial and handed down from another invisible party) there's going to be conflict. Add on the fact that players know these are the people broadcasting all of their mistakes, and we should really expect constant flame wars. I'd say it's a testament to the maturity of most SC2 players and casters that this problem is only now surfacing. The solution will only be found through transparent admins who don't delegate information for casters to disperse to players or vice versa, but do it themselves.

Simply put, both the casters and the pro-gamers have to be on when they're told to be on. They need to get through events with as little added stress as possible to preserve the integrity of the event itself. Tired pros and casters make for subpar games and commentary. It's that simple. And giving them administrative powers over one another can only escalate the problem.

For tournament organizers, if your sponsors want 2 commercials between shots of pros just practicing alone in their booths when they could be eating for the first time in 3 hours, it's your responsibility to tell them, not the casters you hired for the event. Man up. Honestly, organizers should want direct contact with their players in this way as often as possible so that they can learn from the feedback and create better events for pro-gamers.
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
November 30 2011 21:42 GMT
#36707
Whole lotta QQ in that episode.

On the hole EG gaming house thing, everyone made excellent points, but their whole tone was as if it was a personal attack. It wasn't. It was a media outlet editorializing. iNcontroL was defensive the whole time. When I read it, I took it as one person's perspective, and it brought up a lot of what I thought were interesting points. When Artosis (whose attitude on the issue was also off base IMO), etc. pointed out that a lot of these were flawed, that also seemed reasonable to me and I would now tend to agree. But instead of just making those good points, both Artosis and iNcontroL went out of their way to attack the author, call him names, etc. Why do this? Why make it personal? It'd be like a pitcher lashing out at a beat writer when they question the poor results of the pitcher in an article. It's just not professional. The guy's only doing his job. If you think he's wrong, say so and say why. Just don't call names and act like he kicked your dog.

And the casters/players being called names and being mean to eachother in lobbies before games.... yeesh. Give me a break. Both groups need to get over their self-importance. The reason tournaments exist is neither the players nor the casters; it's the FANS. It's the people who buy SC2, watch SC2, attend SC2 tournaments, etc. These are the people who are the number 1 priority and should be. Not to say that fans are served by delays between games or whatever. But please realize what matters here.

That said, it's incumbent upon tournaments to get their shit together, be organized, and have schedules that they stick to. They need to be able to tell players who are going on in, say, the next 30 minutes that they need to be at place x at time y and that the game will start within 5 of 10 minutes of that. And tell casters the same thing. And don't have a caster be responsible for starting the game. Have a referree/admin in game whose job it is to start, etc. Maybe that's too much at this point, but having an official to be a buffer between players and casters, both of whom have jobs to do that shouldn't include bickering about when the match starts, would be a good step. It feels like tournaments have gotten better run throughout the year, and I hope this is something that they'll improve on.

Either way, "I'm emotional right now" is no excuse for acting like an asshole. The sooner players realize this the better.
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
fourColo
Profile Joined June 2011
United States363 Posts
November 30 2011 21:59 GMT
#36708
It's really stupid that the casters are responsible for starting games or really organizing the games at all. There's no reason they should have to think about that since that isn't what they're hired for.

Also the casters should be observing. It's an extra thing they need to think about that they shouldn't need to. But mostly because Tasteless is the worst observer ever.
bLah.
Profile Joined July 2009
Croatia497 Posts
November 30 2011 22:05 GMT
#36709
On December 01 2011 05:25 DennizR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote:

O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is?


Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive.



People don't really understand now how hard it was to win a bw starleague where competition was so much harder because there were so many pro players (waaaaaaaaay more pro and high amateurs wannabe pro koreans than now) + starleagues didn't last just 1 month.

but just a little compare, iirc there are only about 22 starleague winners in like last 8 years. Compare that with 6 different GSL winners in just 1 year. in 8 years that would be 48 diferent winners in less competitive environment.

And people still think it's OK to call MVP a bonjwa after winning 2 and a half GSL's. ROFL
NoMoS
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada20 Posts
November 30 2011 22:05 GMT
#36710
On December 01 2011 06:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
Whole lotta QQ in that episode.

On the hole EG gaming house thing, everyone made excellent points, but their whole tone was as if it was a personal attack. It wasn't. It was a media outlet editorializing. i


Preparation H feels good, on the whole.
gibb
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden288 Posts
November 30 2011 22:07 GMT
#36711
Good show I really enjoyed listening.
Manners.
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
November 30 2011 22:15 GMT
#36712
On December 01 2011 04:26 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.

What's LOL about that? He's beaten the best BW players ever in high-stakes games.

So have a lot of people...he was a strong player, sure, but when people look back at that era of BW they're not going to put him in the same category as Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc.
Dodge arrows
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
November 30 2011 22:21 GMT
#36713
On December 01 2011 07:05 bLah. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 05:25 DennizR wrote:
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote:

O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is?


Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive.



People don't really understand now how hard it was to win a bw starleague where competition was so much harder because there were so many pro players (waaaaaaaaay more pro and high amateurs wannabe pro koreans than now) + starleagues didn't last just 1 month.

but just a little compare, iirc there are only about 22 starleague winners in like last 8 years. Compare that with 6 different GSL winners in just 1 year. in 8 years that would be 48 diferent winners in less competitive environment.

And people still think it's OK to call MVP a bonjwa after winning 2 and a half GSL's. ROFL

It's not that lol, it's the fact he beat Stork, Flash, AND Jaedong on his way. And you have people downgrading him still, it's pathetic..
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
November 30 2011 22:22 GMT
#36714
On December 01 2011 07:15 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 04:26 0neder wrote:
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.

What's LOL about that? He's beaten the best BW players ever in high-stakes games.

So have a lot of people...he was a strong player, sure, but when people look back at that era of BW they're not going to put him in the same category as Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc.


Nobody was arguing he was a Jaedong. But he is a starleague winner which is a short list and he is one of the best bw players to switch over thus far... beating Polt after 8 months of mass gaming and 4 months of being a pro isn't some earth shattering event like people were making it out to be.. THAT is the point being made.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-30 22:37:39
November 30 2011 22:35 GMT
#36715
On December 01 2011 07:22 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 07:15 TheSubtleArt wrote:
On December 01 2011 04:26 0neder wrote:
On December 01 2011 03:02 Trizz wrote:
Lol @ iNcontroL saying fOrGG was one of the greats on SC1.

What's LOL about that? He's beaten the best BW players ever in high-stakes games.

So have a lot of people...he was a strong player, sure, but when people look back at that era of BW they're not going to put him in the same category as Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc.


Nobody was arguing he was a Jaedong. But he is a starleague winner which is a short list and he is one of the best bw players to switch over thus far... beating Polt after 8 months of mass gaming and 4 months of being a pro isn't some earth shattering event like people were making it out to be.. THAT is the point being made.


No it's not an earth shattering event, but oGsFin is definitely Code S material and what he's doing would be considered very impressive if it wasn't for his Broodwar history. He qualified for Code A on his first try, something that almost never happens, he beat his first two opponents 2-0 despite them being known players, and one of them being a former champion, and he demonstrated excellent multitasking and preparation for his games.

With his next opponent being July, a mid-tier Zerg, he's definitely going to beat July and qualify for Code S.

His run has been quite good for a new SC2 player, it's just downplayed because we expect at least this much from him due to his Broodwar past.

I can't imagine the pressure Jaedong would be under if/when he switches, people will be expecting him to qualify for and win GSL the week he switches, and in dominating fashion.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-30 22:41:22
November 30 2011 22:39 GMT
#36716
On November 30 2011 16:28 gruff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2011 16:02 firehand101 wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:53 SCST wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:50 Techno wrote:
JP's comments in every SOTG are just.... bad. The show could be so much better if he would put some more effort into it. Just give the show to Geoff for fuck's sakes so we don't have to wait for JP to mumble through some fucking jot notes he wrote down 10 minutes before the show started.


Geoff hosted a show recently. JP is the best host in my opinion, period. Doesn't deserve getting flamed like this.

I know he doesnt deserve to get flamed that much but he really needs to start listening to us instead of ignoring our criticism, we are trying to help him but he doesnt seem to be listening to most of the comments.


What in Techno's post was worth listening to? If I were JP I would ignore such terrible posts as well.

Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host.

JP's main issues are:
- Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments
- Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show)
- Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
qqK
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany282 Posts
November 30 2011 22:47 GMT
#36717
Who would want SotG to be "professional"?

Also, I for myself didnt like Geoff as host. His most outstanding contribution to SotG is silly jokes, so if he gets too much talking time, it's too much silliness for me. Like him as a pillar, though.
Ladnil
Profile Joined July 2011
United States93 Posts
November 30 2011 22:47 GMT
#36718
On December 01 2011 07:39 Techno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2011 16:28 gruff wrote:
On November 30 2011 16:02 firehand101 wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:53 SCST wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:50 Techno wrote:
JP's comments in every SOTG are just.... bad. The show could be so much better if he would put some more effort into it. Just give the show to Geoff for fuck's sakes so we don't have to wait for JP to mumble through some fucking jot notes he wrote down 10 minutes before the show started.


Geoff hosted a show recently. JP is the best host in my opinion, period. Doesn't deserve getting flamed like this.

I know he doesnt deserve to get flamed that much but he really needs to start listening to us instead of ignoring our criticism, we are trying to help him but he doesnt seem to be listening to most of the comments.


What in Techno's post was worth listening to? If I were JP I would ignore such terrible posts as well.

Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host.

JP's main issues are:
- Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments
- Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show)
- Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality.

He could learn a lot from professional show hosts, this is true. Controlling conversation while driving it forward and maintaining energy is a skill that can be learned. incontrol seems to be a natural on-camera personality, moreso than JP, but JP is still solid.

Personally, I just think it's awesome that we're getting to the point where we can ask for our shows and presentation to be compared to other professional shows.
Have a nice day.
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
November 30 2011 22:53 GMT
#36719
Excellent show as always guys, very funny and interesting, keep it up.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
ItsMeDomLee
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2732 Posts
November 30 2011 23:02 GMT
#36720
On December 01 2011 07:39 Techno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2011 16:28 gruff wrote:
On November 30 2011 16:02 firehand101 wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:53 SCST wrote:
On November 30 2011 15:50 Techno wrote:
JP's comments in every SOTG are just.... bad. The show could be so much better if he would put some more effort into it. Just give the show to Geoff for fuck's sakes so we don't have to wait for JP to mumble through some fucking jot notes he wrote down 10 minutes before the show started.


Geoff hosted a show recently. JP is the best host in my opinion, period. Doesn't deserve getting flamed like this.

I know he doesnt deserve to get flamed that much but he really needs to start listening to us instead of ignoring our criticism, we are trying to help him but he doesnt seem to be listening to most of the comments.


What in Techno's post was worth listening to? If I were JP I would ignore such terrible posts as well.

Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host.

JP's main issues are:
- Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments
- Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show)
- Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality.


The biggest problem I have with JP is that he doesn't do his research. As the host of the show, you should have some idea of the topics you're bringing up but it seems like half of the time he'll bring something up and say "Oh, I didn't watch it" or "I didn't read it" or just be flat out wrong. This extends from him to the other pillars as lots of the time they'll bring up GSL and if it's not a Protoss game chances are nobody watched it so they have nothing to say and then go on to talk about MLG groups for the next 1 hour.
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