EPTThat would indeed be cool... :D
(And then host the vod on a page where I can watch it...
)Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1836
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Junichi
Germany1056 Posts
That would indeed be cool... :D (And then host the vod on a page where I can watch it... ) | ||
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DennizR
Sweden653 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah my mistake.. he only won an MSL. O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is? Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive. | ||
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2012 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:25 DennizR wrote: Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2075/3528861357_5c1c357572.jpg) User was warned for this post | ||
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Ero-Sennin
United States756 Posts
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:15 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah my mistake.. he only won an MSL. O_O do you people even know how big of a deal that is? It's definitely a big deal, but the irony is still inescapable. :D | ||
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rpa.Vesi
United States2 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:57 OuchyDathurts wrote: It's just a weird situation where the casters are "in the same room" (game) with the players themselves so there's this crossfire. Every other pro sport the guy on the TV casting the game is removed from the game itself. Marv Albert isn't putting up with the players directly, the players aren't dealing with him, it all falls on the refs/coaches to deal with the players during the game. This really needed to be said. It's almost like a breach in the third wall. Players already know that commentators are scrutinizing every decision they make; to top that off with having the casters put in charge of when they're even allowed to play is bound to cause problems for both parties. Controls like these should be handled by a third party who players and casters can abuse at their own peril. I can explain it better from experience actually. You see, I used to be that third party. I was an umpire throughout highschool, and my job, most of the time, was just to verify events which transpired in the game. But anybody could do that. My real job was to take flak from parents, players, and coaches when hard decisions had to be made. If things got too heated, I could dispassionately make threats to throw people out of games and so on. The beautiful thing was that most of my training was only in how to handle disgruntled spectators and participants, not in the rules of baseball. Basically, in baseball, everybody knows enough about the rules to manage and call a game themselves, but because people are emotionally invested in the success of one team or another, this becomes difficult if not impossible to do. To resolve this problem, baseball assigns all of the responsibility to one (hopefully) unbiased individual. And by responsibility, I mean blame. In every single game I worked where I made a tough call, I'd get screamed at and booed. (Especially the little league games. . . I've actually never thrown coaches out of games except in little league matches. Why would you cuss out a fifteen year old umpire over whether or not a SEVEN year old touched the plate first? Was a box of Pepperidge Farm's Goldfish on the line or something?!) Imagine if the teams were making these decisions and shouting one another down instead of just some jerk umpire who's obviously payed to be mean to them and steal their delicious goldfish(es). Rioting 7 year olds, that's what. With casters v players, the situation is obviously different, but if the casters are being given controls over when games start or when players can take breaks (even if these controls are superficial and handed down from another invisible party) there's going to be conflict. Add on the fact that players know these are the people broadcasting all of their mistakes, and we should really expect constant flame wars. I'd say it's a testament to the maturity of most SC2 players and casters that this problem is only now surfacing. The solution will only be found through transparent admins who don't delegate information for casters to disperse to players or vice versa, but do it themselves. Simply put, both the casters and the pro-gamers have to be on when they're told to be on. They need to get through events with as little added stress as possible to preserve the integrity of the event itself. Tired pros and casters make for subpar games and commentary. It's that simple. And giving them administrative powers over one another can only escalate the problem. For tournament organizers, if your sponsors want 2 commercials between shots of pros just practicing alone in their booths when they could be eating for the first time in 3 hours, it's your responsibility to tell them, not the casters you hired for the event. Man up. Honestly, organizers should want direct contact with their players in this way as often as possible so that they can learn from the feedback and create better events for pro-gamers. | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
On the hole EG gaming house thing, everyone made excellent points, but their whole tone was as if it was a personal attack. It wasn't. It was a media outlet editorializing. iNcontroL was defensive the whole time. When I read it, I took it as one person's perspective, and it brought up a lot of what I thought were interesting points. When Artosis (whose attitude on the issue was also off base IMO), etc. pointed out that a lot of these were flawed, that also seemed reasonable to me and I would now tend to agree. But instead of just making those good points, both Artosis and iNcontroL went out of their way to attack the author, call him names, etc. Why do this? Why make it personal? It'd be like a pitcher lashing out at a beat writer when they question the poor results of the pitcher in an article. It's just not professional. The guy's only doing his job. If you think he's wrong, say so and say why. Just don't call names and act like he kicked your dog. And the casters/players being called names and being mean to eachother in lobbies before games.... yeesh. Give me a break. Both groups need to get over their self-importance. The reason tournaments exist is neither the players nor the casters; it's the FANS. It's the people who buy SC2, watch SC2, attend SC2 tournaments, etc. These are the people who are the number 1 priority and should be. Not to say that fans are served by delays between games or whatever. But please realize what matters here. That said, it's incumbent upon tournaments to get their shit together, be organized, and have schedules that they stick to. They need to be able to tell players who are going on in, say, the next 30 minutes that they need to be at place x at time y and that the game will start within 5 of 10 minutes of that. And tell casters the same thing. And don't have a caster be responsible for starting the game. Have a referree/admin in game whose job it is to start, etc. Maybe that's too much at this point, but having an official to be a buffer between players and casters, both of whom have jobs to do that shouldn't include bickering about when the match starts, would be a good step. It feels like tournaments have gotten better run throughout the year, and I hope this is something that they'll improve on. Either way, "I'm emotional right now" is no excuse for acting like an asshole. The sooner players realize this the better. | ||
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fourColo
United States363 Posts
Also the casters should be observing. It's an extra thing they need to think about that they shouldn't need to. But mostly because Tasteless is the worst observer ever. | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:25 DennizR wrote: Meh, he just 3-0'd some random named Jaedong. Not that impressive. People don't really understand now how hard it was to win a bw starleague where competition was so much harder because there were so many pro players (waaaaaaaaay more pro and high amateurs wannabe pro koreans than now) + starleagues didn't last just 1 month. but just a little compare, iirc there are only about 22 starleague winners in like last 8 years. Compare that with 6 different GSL winners in just 1 year. in 8 years that would be 48 diferent winners in less competitive environment. And people still think it's OK to call MVP a bonjwa after winning 2 and a half GSL's. ROFL | ||
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NoMoS
Canada20 Posts
On December 01 2011 06:42 GeorgeForeman wrote: Whole lotta QQ in that episode. On the hole EG gaming house thing, everyone made excellent points, but their whole tone was as if it was a personal attack. It wasn't. It was a media outlet editorializing. i Preparation H feels good, on the whole. | ||
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gibb
Sweden288 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:26 0neder wrote: What's LOL about that? He's beaten the best BW players ever in high-stakes games. So have a lot of people...he was a strong player, sure, but when people look back at that era of BW they're not going to put him in the same category as Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc. | ||
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:05 bLah. wrote: People don't really understand now how hard it was to win a bw starleague where competition was so much harder because there were so many pro players (waaaaaaaaay more pro and high amateurs wannabe pro koreans than now) + starleagues didn't last just 1 month. but just a little compare, iirc there are only about 22 starleague winners in like last 8 years. Compare that with 6 different GSL winners in just 1 year. in 8 years that would be 48 diferent winners in less competitive environment. And people still think it's OK to call MVP a bonjwa after winning 2 and a half GSL's. ROFL It's not that lol, it's the fact he beat Stork, Flash, AND Jaedong on his way. And you have people downgrading him still, it's pathetic.. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:15 TheSubtleArt wrote: So have a lot of people...he was a strong player, sure, but when people look back at that era of BW they're not going to put him in the same category as Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc. Nobody was arguing he was a Jaedong. But he is a starleague winner which is a short list and he is one of the best bw players to switch over thus far... beating Polt after 8 months of mass gaming and 4 months of being a pro isn't some earth shattering event like people were making it out to be.. THAT is the point being made. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:22 iNcontroL wrote: Nobody was arguing he was a Jaedong. But he is a starleague winner which is a short list and he is one of the best bw players to switch over thus far... beating Polt after 8 months of mass gaming and 4 months of being a pro isn't some earth shattering event like people were making it out to be.. THAT is the point being made. No it's not an earth shattering event, but oGsFin is definitely Code S material and what he's doing would be considered very impressive if it wasn't for his Broodwar history. He qualified for Code A on his first try, something that almost never happens, he beat his first two opponents 2-0 despite them being known players, and one of them being a former champion, and he demonstrated excellent multitasking and preparation for his games. With his next opponent being July, a mid-tier Zerg, he's definitely going to beat July and qualify for Code S. His run has been quite good for a new SC2 player, it's just downplayed because we expect at least this much from him due to his Broodwar past. I can't imagine the pressure Jaedong would be under if/when he switches, people will be expecting him to qualify for and win GSL the week he switches, and in dominating fashion. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On November 30 2011 16:28 gruff wrote: What in Techno's post was worth listening to? If I were JP I would ignore such terrible posts as well. Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host. JP's main issues are: - Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments - Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show) - Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality. | ||
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qqK
Germany282 Posts
Also, I for myself didnt like Geoff as host. His most outstanding contribution to SotG is silly jokes, so if he gets too much talking time, it's too much silliness for me. Like him as a pillar, though. | ||
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Ladnil
United States93 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:39 Techno wrote: Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host. JP's main issues are: - Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments - Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show) - Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality. He could learn a lot from professional show hosts, this is true. Controlling conversation while driving it forward and maintaining energy is a skill that can be learned. incontrol seems to be a natural on-camera personality, moreso than JP, but JP is still solid. Personally, I just think it's awesome that we're getting to the point where we can ask for our shows and presentation to be compared to other professional shows. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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ItsMeDomLee
Canada2732 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:39 Techno wrote: Knee jerk reaction to me dropping an F bomb. JP is mediocre at best, and a terrible host at worst. Im blunt. It's nothing personal against him, I would praise him if he improved for next episode. I said earlier that good hosts to emulate are Ryan Davis from the Bombcast and Garnet Lee from Weekend Confirmed. Give them a listen if you wanna hear a good host. JP's main issues are: - Is indecisive in who should talk and how the show should go, this spills over into the guests and makes for some very awkward moments - Seems very tired and bored of the show, his boredom makes me bored (not just this show: every show) - Does not seem to care about looking "professional": he started as just a guy in his room and he still has this attitude. This is an intangible quality so don't ask for examples. But I think we can all agree JP's performance on SOTG is not television quality. The biggest problem I have with JP is that he doesn't do his research. As the host of the show, you should have some idea of the topics you're bringing up but it seems like half of the time he'll bring something up and say "Oh, I didn't watch it" or "I didn't read it" or just be flat out wrong. This extends from him to the other pillars as lots of the time they'll bring up GSL and if it's not a Protoss game chances are nobody watched it so they have nothing to say and then go on to talk about MLG groups for the next 1 hour. | ||
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