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On June 09 2011 09:33 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:59 darkscream wrote:
are you still trying to decide what words people are, and are not allowed to use?
silly discussion
You can't ever control what words someone else uses, so its not worth discussion, especially not in this thread
whether or not fag, nigger, rape etc offend you is also not relevant because the people who use these words don't give a fuck about you or your emotional hangups on words
case closed! Yeah you can. It's called voting for censorship laws and that's what is dangerous. Also, that's not even what they are discussing. They are discussing whether people should use certain words.
Well it doesn't have anything to do with laws either. The casters are people working for a company in some capacity, free or otherwise, so they would have to abide by the rules and regulations they have. Obviously Day9 wouldn't say "Wow, that guy is a complete idiot" at MLG about a player.
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On June 09 2011 00:19 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote:
I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show. DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself.
They both said it actually, although Inc's might have been on Lo3. Wheat actually said something was gay on Lo3 too before hastily correcting himself.
It's quite funny seeing these guys try and censor themselves, but also a shame that they feel they need to do this for the non-existent mainstream audience they somehow think is going to gravitate towards Sc2 if people stop using certain words.
The worst was hearing InControl saying he was going to stop doing his accents, they were hilarious and people need to realise that making fun of a stereotype is not the same as being racist. I'd like to know how many native american's have actually complained about Inc's Indian chief accent? probably none, it's almost certainly the usual group of PC thugs that do nothing but look for stuff to be offended by that were complaining.
I'm so sick of this "lets bring Sc2 into the mainstream" crusade that people seem to be on at the moment, as if somehow cleaning up the language is going to make grandpa come home from church and choose to watch the MLG instead of the football.
Guys, I'm all for cutting out racism and homophobia, but for fucks sake, the people who are going to take up watching Sc2 are by and large not going to give a shit about InControl doing a hilarious accent or DjWheat saying 'rape' once in a blue moon.
Having said that though if I turned on a stream and heard "I just raped that nigger" or something, I would turn it straight off because in my experience the people that talk like that are the same people that have single digit IQs and spend their lives trolling people on Xbox live, the last people in the entire world I would want to listen to.
So I guess to sum up my rant...
1) Incontrol please don't stop doing your accents
2) people should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream
3) Throwing in the occasional 'rape' or 'gay' isn't a big deal given the demographic of people who watch.
4) overusing those words makes you sound like a douche though so be careful.
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On June 09 2011 23:25 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 00:19 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote:
I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show. DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself. They both said it actually, although Inc's might have been on Lo3. Wheat actually said something was gay on Lo3 too before hastily correcting himself. It's quite funny seeing these guys try and censor themselves, but also a shame that they feel they need to do this for the non-existent mainstream audience they somehow think is going to gravitate towards Sc2 if people stop using certain words. The worst was hearing InControl saying he was going to stop doing his accents, they were hilarious and people need to realise that making fun of a stereotype is not the same as being racist. I'd like to know how many native american's have actually complained about Inc's Indian chief accent? probably none, it's almost certainly the usual group of PC thugs that do nothing but look for stuff to be offended by that were complaining. I'm so sick of this "lets bring Sc2 into the mainstream" crusade that people seem to be on at the moment, as if somehow cleaning up the language is going to make grandpa come home from church and choose to watch the MLG instead of the football. Guys, I'm all for cutting out racism and homophobia, but for fucks sake, the people who are going to take up watching Sc2 are by and large not going to give a shit about InControl doing a hilarious accent or DjWheat saying 'rape' once in a blue moon. Having said that though if I turned on a stream and heard "I just raped that nigger" or something, I would turn it straight off because in my experience the people that talk like that are the same people that have single digit IQs and spend their lives trolling people on Xbox live, the last people in the entire world I would want to listen to. So I guess to sum up my rant... 1) Incontrol please don't stop doing your accents 2) people should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream 3) Throwing in the occasional 'rape' or 'gay' isn't a big deal given the demographic of people who watch. 4) overusing those words makes you sound like a douche though so be careful.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Most of those who get "offended" are usually just looking for excuses to draw attention to themselves. Just like the guy who freaked out over the adopted joke in Portal 2. Did that go anywhere? No. He just wanted his 15 minutes of fame.
The white knights of political correctness in this community really need to set their priorities straight, for while they throw fits over a few words here, there is actual racism, sexism, and intolerance happening in the US. The Westboro Baptist Church, KKK, and the Neo Nazis needs to change or disappear before we start criticizing players and streamers for saying rape once in a blue moon.
What I mean to get across is: Don't get your moral masturbation sessions from such a silly and minor issue.
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When will the next show be aired?
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On June 10 2011 03:04 GrungyMunchy wrote:
When will the next show be aired?
Not for a long time...
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The more I think about this episode and this thread there is one overwhelming depressing conclusion I've come to:
The Starcraft II community has accepted (and even embraced) its marginalization.
1.) Using offensive and wholly inappropriate language is "okay" because the only people watching any of this have a maturity age of 13-21 and are 99% males. They like that kind of language and no one else will ever watch Starcraft II.
2.) Starcraft II doesn't need to be on TV because the only people that watch it are dorks who sit at their computer with their headphones on. (My favorite quote from the episode "Does't everyone have a computer hooked up to their TV?")
I'm not going to go far and say its an abject failure of the community if we don't get a show on G4. But there has to be SOMETHING better than this. Livestream and ustream are horrid. The quality of GSL is good but its behind a paywall, and I don't see them integrating that app with TVs any time soon. (Oh yeah and its on at a ridiculous time).
There was some interesting stuff that came out of E3 about X-Box streaming that could be huge for Starcraft II, but right now out the outlook is grim.
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I'm just gonna outright say that i haven't followed this thread(its 1251 pages long >.>)and i made an account because i just wanted to respond to the fuss made from Destiny's comments on SotG.
People make the argument that using foul language reflects bad on the Starcraft community when you are a prominent person in the community and does not help the game and the community have a broader audience. I find this really, really stupid, and i don't think it's even a real problem. I mean, Destiny's stream is really popular, and one of the main reasons it got popular was that it is entertaining, partly because the people who are featured in the cast use foul language. If you choose to ignore the fact that it's his own stream, he doesn't owe anything to anyone and he can say whatever the fuck he wants, it doesn't change the fact that whoever does not like it can just not watch it. Thank god, there are tons of other streams you can watch without anyone cursing.
I mean think about it, if you just bought the game and you're just starting to be a part of the community, i doubt you're gonna find yourself on Destiny's stream in the first place, and even if you do, the warning of justin.tv saying that the stream futures content that might be innapropriate, if you are not stupid, you can just close it right there and then.I'm not gonna touch the subject of people getting offended by the slightest little thing, which is another whole story.
Anyway, so you wanna make the community and the game itself larger. If you look at any popular entertainment medium, you will see that there are many approaches to it. I'm not sure how this works, but i'm pretty sure that in America you even have comedic "news shows" that comment on news using not-so-appropriate language from time to time. If people get offended by that, they just switch their channel.It's the same for everything. It's obvious you don't have people using foul language on big, official events, because of course that would reflect poorly on the community. A couple of streams aren't big, official events.
If you really believe that people are too retarded to filter out what might or might not get them offended, that's their own fault.
And yes, i said retarded, so fuckin what.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On June 09 2011 23:25 Wargizmo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 00:19 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote:
I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show. DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself. They both said it actually, although Inc's might have been on Lo3. Wheat actually said something was gay on Lo3 too before hastily correcting himself. It's quite funny seeing these guys try and censor themselves, but also a shame that they feel they need to do this for the non-existent mainstream audience they somehow think is going to gravitate towards Sc2 if people stop using certain words. The worst was hearing InControl saying he was going to stop doing his accents, they were hilarious and people need to realise that making fun of a stereotype is not the same as being racist. I'd like to know how many native american's have actually complained about Inc's Indian chief accent? probably none, it's almost certainly the usual group of PC thugs that do nothing but look for stuff to be offended by that were complaining. I'm so sick of this "lets bring Sc2 into the mainstream" crusade that people seem to be on at the moment, as if somehow cleaning up the language is going to make grandpa come home from church and choose to watch the MLG instead of the football. Guys, I'm all for cutting out racism and homophobia, but for fucks sake, the people who are going to take up watching Sc2 are by and large not going to give a shit about InControl doing a hilarious accent or DjWheat saying 'rape' once in a blue moon. Having said that though if I turned on a stream and heard "I just raped that nigger" or something, I would turn it straight off because in my experience the people that talk like that are the same people that have single digit IQs and spend their lives trolling people on Xbox live, the last people in the entire world I would want to listen to. So I guess to sum up my rant... 1) Incontrol please don't stop doing your accents 2) people should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream 3) Throwing in the occasional 'rape' or 'gay' isn't a big deal given the demographic of people who watch. 4) overusing those words makes you sound like a douche though so be careful.
I really resent when people say things like this...
No. No I didn't say "rape" on Lo3 or on SOTG or any other show. If I did it was either in the context of "don't say this" or discussing the actual word rape. I haven't used it in gamer lingo in a really really long time.
Please stop.
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Let me first start by saying that, in my opinion, people are too sensitive and could stand to have a thicker skin. This is especially the case when it comes to language.
That being said, the arguments being made to justify the use of words like "rape" or "nigger" are ignorant. This thread has been riddled with claims of "selling out" and "censorship" in reference to those individuals who make a conscious decision to change the words that they use. I've read claims that the changes Tyler and Geoff were advocating on SotG are in violation of our right to free speech. However, no one is going to prevent Destiny from saying what he feels like saying on his stream. Furthermore, nowhere has anyone suggested that some measure be put in place to prevent Destiny from saying what he wants to say on his stream. What has been suggested is that it is not a good idea to go around saying what you feel like saying all the time. Everyone agrees with this. I have yet to meet a person who says what they want to say 100% of the time. You censor yourself not only for your own benefit but for the benefit of those around you.
The argument that then arises is that offense should not be taken because of the context in which the word(s) was used. For me to tell you that you should not be offended by something I have said is meaningless. Even if you are offended by something I have said because you took it out of context, the fact remains that you have been offended. If I continue to then commit the same offense because of a perceived ignorance on your part, well then I am just cruel and do not care about you in the slightest. And that is really what we are talking about here is it not? You really just do not care if you are offending people. You can no longer claim that you were unaware that you are offensive because you have now been told that you are offensive. And I do not have to be black to take offense at the use of the word nigger.
This is not a question of "censorship" or "selling out" it is a question of integrity and whether you have enough to care about the people you interact with.
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On June 09 2011 23:38 Grimjim wrote:
The Westboro Baptist Church, KKK, and the Neo Nazis needs to change or disappear before we start criticizing players and streamers for saying rape once in a blue moon.
What I mean to get across is: Don't get your moral masturbation sessions from such a silly and minor issue.
I don't understand how these are in even remotely the same realm of thought.
What you're criticizing above are things people believe. You are saying that either they shouldn't be allowed to believe them, or that they shouldn't be allowed to organize based on how they believe - and that this should somehow be the focus of our moral concern as a gaming community.
What people in this thread have been talking about are the words people use to convey ideas. Whether or not I should (as a question of morality, not of law) say "man, Incontrol just raped his opponent there" in place of "incontrol sure won that video game" really is nothing like dealing with someone who thinks women actually deserve to be raped. It isn't as though people have access and influence to both types of people and foolishly choose to censor casters instead of putting some bigot in his place.
Essentially, what you're saying is analogous to saying something like "I don't understand how you can take medicine for the flu while my friend is dying of cancer." It almost sounds like a point until you read the words.
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On June 10 2011 13:42 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 23:25 Wargizmo wrote:On June 09 2011 00:19 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote:
I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show. DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself. They both said it actually, although Inc's might have been on Lo3. Wheat actually said something was gay on Lo3 too before hastily correcting himself. It's quite funny seeing these guys try and censor themselves, but also a shame that they feel they need to do this for the non-existent mainstream audience they somehow think is going to gravitate towards Sc2 if people stop using certain words. The worst was hearing InControl saying he was going to stop doing his accents, they were hilarious and people need to realise that making fun of a stereotype is not the same as being racist. I'd like to know how many native american's have actually complained about Inc's Indian chief accent? probably none, it's almost certainly the usual group of PC thugs that do nothing but look for stuff to be offended by that were complaining. I'm so sick of this "lets bring Sc2 into the mainstream" crusade that people seem to be on at the moment, as if somehow cleaning up the language is going to make grandpa come home from church and choose to watch the MLG instead of the football. Guys, I'm all for cutting out racism and homophobia, but for fucks sake, the people who are going to take up watching Sc2 are by and large not going to give a shit about InControl doing a hilarious accent or DjWheat saying 'rape' once in a blue moon. Having said that though if I turned on a stream and heard "I just raped that nigger" or something, I would turn it straight off because in my experience the people that talk like that are the same people that have single digit IQs and spend their lives trolling people on Xbox live, the last people in the entire world I would want to listen to. So I guess to sum up my rant... 1) Incontrol please don't stop doing your accents 2) people should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream 3) Throwing in the occasional 'rape' or 'gay' isn't a big deal given the demographic of people who watch. 4) overusing those words makes you sound like a douche though so be careful. I really resent when people say things like this... No. No I didn't say "rape" on Lo3 or on SOTG or any other show. If I did it was either in the context of "don't say this" or discussing the actual word rape. I haven't used it in gamer lingo in a really really long time. Please stop.
Are you sure it's okay with EG you post here still? 
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I don't think rape is so bad. The word definetly sounds harsh when said on a cast, and for that reason I'd say leave it out if possible. I really think the issue here is the word "retard". By calling somebody a retard your claiming somebody with a mental disability is in someway bad or unacceptable, when that's not the case. It's not their fault they have those problems and I think dealing with it is enough without people making fun of them in such a way.
iNcontroL made some good points and I'm glad he brought it up. I'm not one to be offended by these words at all, but the make the cast both unprofessional and unwatchable for some. Have you ever heard a sports caster say those words, pretty sure they'd be fired on the spot. People are contradicting themselves when they say they want e-sports to grow but then hate on people who find the words offensive. For it to grow into a household activity e-sports has to be available for people of all ages and all mindsets, not just the hardcore starcraft fan who has embedded harsh words into their vocabulary from years of talking to people on the internet.
On the other hand, it's important not to take away from the uniqueness of e-sports. It is a built around the gamer community, which is one who respect humour and the like, which isn't something you get on sports casts.
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Rape is just a poor choice of wording for any public appearance, especially one that is being recorded,can be taken out of context, or manipulated. InC just 'owned' him would be the better phrase. Even throw in L-O-L.
I do feel that there is a lot to be said for a less politically correct alternative. The future of e-sports covers too many cultures, let alone countries. One size may never fit all. If they want to sanitize the show, then that's probably best so they can please sponsors and their lawyers.
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This has just totally blown out of proportion. What people say on their stream reflects them not the entire community. Yes casters should be politically correct when casting because that is a public platform
No matter what you do or don't say, someone, somewhere will be offended
People worry that if someone doens't say the right words SC won't become the huge sport that everyone wants. The gameplay itself will determine whether it's big or not, not what X caster said about Y word
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On June 10 2011 13:42 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 23:25 Wargizmo wrote:On June 09 2011 00:19 TheFrankOne wrote:On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote:
I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show. DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself. They both said it actually, although Inc's might have been on Lo3. Wheat actually said something was gay on Lo3 too before hastily correcting himself. It's quite funny seeing these guys try and censor themselves, but also a shame that they feel they need to do this for the non-existent mainstream audience they somehow think is going to gravitate towards Sc2 if people stop using certain words. The worst was hearing InControl saying he was going to stop doing his accents, they were hilarious and people need to realise that making fun of a stereotype is not the same as being racist. I'd like to know how many native american's have actually complained about Inc's Indian chief accent? probably none, it's almost certainly the usual group of PC thugs that do nothing but look for stuff to be offended by that were complaining. I'm so sick of this "lets bring Sc2 into the mainstream" crusade that people seem to be on at the moment, as if somehow cleaning up the language is going to make grandpa come home from church and choose to watch the MLG instead of the football. Guys, I'm all for cutting out racism and homophobia, but for fucks sake, the people who are going to take up watching Sc2 are by and large not going to give a shit about InControl doing a hilarious accent or DjWheat saying 'rape' once in a blue moon. Having said that though if I turned on a stream and heard "I just raped that nigger" or something, I would turn it straight off because in my experience the people that talk like that are the same people that have single digit IQs and spend their lives trolling people on Xbox live, the last people in the entire world I would want to listen to. So I guess to sum up my rant... 1) Incontrol please don't stop doing your accents 2) people should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream 3) Throwing in the occasional 'rape' or 'gay' isn't a big deal given the demographic of people who watch. 4) overusing those words makes you sound like a douche though so be careful. I really resent when people say things like this... No. No I didn't say "rape" on Lo3 or on SOTG or any other show. If I did it was either in the context of "don't say this" or discussing the actual word rape. I haven't used it in gamer lingo in a really really long time. Please stop.
I hope this does not sound too douchey, but in the latest inside the game at around 1:29:20 at least I hear that word. It might be me hearing things wrong since this is not my native language.
I dont mind it either, it was just pretty funny 
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Listened to it again and Inc does indeed say Berate, my apologies.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
making accounts to spread lies is really dumb btw
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On June 10 2011 03:04 GrungyMunchy wrote:
When will the next show be aired?
Probably never, maybe after MLG season is over?
On June 09 2011 23:25 Wargizmo wrote:
People should stop obsessing over bringing Sc2 to the mainstream
This.
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Are we not getting SotG anymore? It's my favorite podcast. With iNcontroL out, maybe you guys can find a Terran or Zerg voice to replace him.
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EPT
