On June 08 2011 06:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote: So here's what happens: You get angry about something and the anger serves no good purpose at all. You can handle it three ways: catharsis, ignore it, or work through it. Catharsis: flush out the anger in a harmless way and move on. Ignore it: this is impossible to do. Ignoring it causes repression. Even though your actions may ignore the anger, it still lingers in your mind for a while and affects your thinking. Work through it: you calm yourself down without thinking about the trigger of your anger, and once you're calm you think about the trigger and realize that anger wasn't a good response. Next time, you recognize the trigger and feel less anger. Eventually, you feel no anger. Of course there are limits to this but in the case of SC-related rage and forum-related rage, I believe most people could get rid of their rage with a proper effort.
If I act out my anger, then yeah it gets out of my system for that incident, but there's nothing stopping it from happening again. And when I do that, it's more likely that I'll need/want to act out my anger the next time, and even more the next time, etc, until it becomes habitual, because it feels good to get the anger out.
If I resolve the anger by thinking like "This emotion isn't useful for me. Anger accomplishes nothing here. My impulse is incorrect and I need to adjust it" then every time I get that trigger, I feel less and less anger, until I feel nothing at all.
I think catharsis is ok in combination with a plan to prevent anger in the future. Catharsis by itself will increase the frequency of your anger and increase your need to act it out. If you hate getting angry or catharsis is getting too inconvenient, then you should really be doing something else. If you get angry in a situation where no catharsis is possible (business meeting, in the middle of a sc game, etc) then you have really fucked yourself over. Anger turns into real rage (not this fake rage that plagues gaming lingo) and you can't do anything close to your best.
I didn't expect to learn something in a post about rage, but hey, I did.
Maybe this new found information will help me calm down when losing to skill less crap on the ladder.
On June 08 2011 16:41 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know when JP will load the VOD for tonight's show?
If you watched last weeks SHOW then you would understand that JP SAID that there is no show for at least this week. And if you didn't watch last week's show then why the fuck do you care about this weeks'.
some people...
He may have missed it. I know I missed it myself. No need to be a jerk about it.
On June 08 2011 16:41 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know when JP will load the VOD for tonight's show?
If you watched last weeks SHOW then you would understand that JP SAID that there is no show for at least this week. And if you didn't watch last week's show then why the fuck do you care about this weeks'.
some people...
He may have missed it. I know I missed it myself. No need to be a jerk about it.
some people...
and for your own interest he mentioned it in the show before last week's show as well. So you must not have watched the last two weeks of the show like the other guy? LOL
Since supposedly you've already read and understand the information in the presented link (and this "trigger word" mechanic is the basis of your argument), it would have been very good manner, and in a constructive manner it would show that you're not talking out of your ass (which you obviously are) if you'd really give a specific scientifically relevant link, not just directing me toward a HUGE wall of text that is hard to navigate as is and which may or maynot have what I am looking for.
Hahahahaha. I love people like you on forums. Ignore the link I post. Ask for a link proving what I say, then say "TL;DR" when I give it to you again. Hahahahahhaha. Hey, you can't be proven wrong if you're illiterate!!! lmao.
What is sad is that probably works for you 90% of the time on this forum, because most people are too lazy to actually find the links.
hahahahahahah
Keep posting links to the dictionary though thats really working!!
You're obivously mentally challenged, and cannot follow a simple discussion. I feel bad for challenging your intellectual capacity to that extend, and I apologize for that.
I am not ignoring the link you posted. I have tried wading through the hundred of links there and all linked to personal opinions of various people on the subject, none of them have any relevant scientific data that relates to the base of your argument, which was that no matter the context, rape is a trigger word that makes the victims relive their trauma. All my other efforts of searching for the connection between trigger words and post traumatic stress disorder on wikipedia and google have got me no results. So, you're a kid talking out of your ass, flaundering about with terms, concepts and ideas that he has no understanding of himself.
When you claim that someone has no understanding of a certain word and then he links to a dictionary and explains how that word applies to you, the link actually is working as intended in the net effect of you getting owned by your own arrogance.
"hahahahahahahah" wins every argument, 100% of the time. So does "lmao".
This is the last post that I will make as a reply to anything you have to say, unless you can provide a link to a scientificaly relevant article that will support your first claim. Have a nice day.
On June 08 2011 16:41 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know when JP will load the VOD for tonight's show?
If you watched last weeks SHOW then you would understand that JP SAID that there is no show for at least this week. And if you didn't watch last week's show then why the fuck do you care about this weeks'.
some people...
He may have missed it. I know I missed it myself. No need to be a jerk about it.
some people...
and for your own interest he mentioned it in the show before last week's show as well. So you must not have watched the last two weeks of the show like the other guy? LOL
some people...
What the fuck is wrong with you? :s He asked a simply question and you felt the need to be a dick to him. I didn't know if there was a show this week and came here to check. Now I know there isn't.
Whenever you post, pretend it's a person on the other end you are talking to.
On June 08 2011 16:41 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know when JP will load the VOD for tonight's show?
If you watched last weeks SHOW then you would understand that JP SAID that there is no show for at least this week. And if you didn't watch last week's show then why the fuck do you care about this weeks'.
some people...
He may have missed it. I know I missed it myself. No need to be a jerk about it.
some people...
and for your own interest he mentioned it in the show before last week's show as well. So you must not have watched the last two weeks of the show like the other guy? LOL
some people...
some people?
some people.....have things to do on tuesday nights like go to work for example and cannot watch every single state of the game live. Grow up.
On June 08 2011 16:41 Chriscras wrote: Does anyone know when JP will load the VOD for tonight's show?
If you watched last weeks SHOW then you would understand that JP SAID that there is no show for at least this week. And if you didn't watch last week's show then why the fuck do you care about this weeks'.
some people...
He may have missed it. I know I missed it myself. No need to be a jerk about it.
some people...
and for your own interest he mentioned it in the show before last week's show as well. So you must not have watched the last two weeks of the show like the other guy? LOL
some people...
I guess (some) people disagree with you. Probably because you're being a dick. It's not a crime to miss something from an episode. No reason to attack people over it. Grow up.
The Ep41 Podcast and Destiny's appearance actually makes me want to watch his stream ^^ Well defended and thought out response as to why he swears and why he chooses not to censor himself. The counterargument that just because you can't draw too clear a line doesn't mean you should just fuck all people by your language, and trying to represent yourself in a different way I think comes down to this: being offended by words that obviously do not carry the usual offensive context at the time is (in my view) a flaw. This is not to say it's not an understandable flaw; people close to me have dealt (or not so well) with cancer and at first when I heard the word used casually did spark up some emotion, but I held it to myself that this was my problem, and my fault (altho fault might not be the right word here) for not being able to rationalise this. Now ofcourse we can say it's better to be on the safe side, and why take a chance to offend someone when you can avoid it, but this would lead to tippytoe-ing trough life because people can't rationalise when they hear certain words. It's possible to want to represent a way of thinking that reflects this: sort of the sticks-n-stones attitude I guess?
On June 08 2011 21:32 Promises wrote: The Ep41 Podcast and Destiny's appearance actually makes me want to watch his stream ^^ Well defended and thought out response as to why he swears and why he chooses not to censor himself. The counterargument that just because you can't draw too clear a line doesn't mean you should just fuck all people by your language, and trying to represent yourself in a different way I think comes down to this: being offended by words that obviously do not carry the usual offensive context at the time is (in my view) a flaw. This is not to say it's not an understandable flaw; people close to me have dealt (or not so well) with cancer and at first when I heard the word used casually did spark up some emotion, but I held it to myself that this was my problem, and my fault (altho fault might not be the right word here) for not being able to rationalise this. Now ofcourse we can say it's better to be on the safe side, and why take a chance to offend someone when you can avoid it, but this would lead to tippytoe-ing trough life because people can't rationalise when they hear certain words. It's possible to want to represent a way of thinking that reflects this: sort of the sticks-n-stones attitude I guess?
1. There's a difference between swearing and using the words "fag" and "nigger". Words like "fuck" do not have a discriminatory meaning
2. Words do not derive their meaning simply from how an individual uses them, but from their historical use and use in ordinary language. Needless to say; were it not so, communication would be impossible.
3. If a person uses the term "fag" simply to refer to someone the person dislikes in some way, the intentions of the speaker is besides the point, as the term "fag" carries a meaning for anyone who knows the English language (and its culture of use). It is also evident that the person continues the trend of using the term in a discriminatory fashion simply from the fact that it is used as an euphemism for something terrible/bad/stupid.
4. To say that the problem with using these words lies with members of the audience being offended is narrow-minded, and reveals a 'shallow' concern with viewer numbers and the like. That is not the problem. The problem is with what it communicates regarding our general approach to the subject which the words describe (independently of the intentions of the speaker). Using the term "rape" regarding a player being beaten in a game may very well offend some viewers, but overall the more consequential effect is that the subject of rape changes as our language-use changes. Rape becomes a substitute for domination, to win over someone, or the like, and there is an inadequacy regarding using the term for what it originally meant. This is not a comment regarding the language-use of a single person but the effects of the language-use of an entire community.
On June 08 2011 06:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote: So here's what happens: You get angry about something and the anger serves no good purpose at all. You can handle it three ways: catharsis, ignore it, or work through it.+ Show Spoiler +
Catharsis: flush out the anger in a harmless way and move on. Ignore it: this is impossible to do. Ignoring it causes repression. Even though your actions may ignore the anger, it still lingers in your mind for a while and affects your thinking. Work through it: you calm yourself down without thinking about the trigger of your anger, and once you're calm you think about the trigger and realize that anger wasn't a good response. Next time, you recognize the trigger and feel less anger. Eventually, you feel no anger. Of course there are limits to this but in the case of SC-related rage and forum-related rage, I believe most people could get rid of their rage with a proper effort.
If I act out my anger, then yeah it gets out of my system for that incident, but there's nothing stopping it from happening again. And when I do that, it's more likely that I'll need/want to act out my anger the next time, and even more the next time, etc, until it becomes habitual, because it feels good to get the anger out.
If I resolve the anger by thinking like "This emotion isn't useful for me. Anger accomplishes nothing here. My impulse is incorrect and I need to adjust it" then every time I get that trigger, I feel less and less anger, until I feel nothing at all.
I think catharsis is ok in combination with a plan to prevent anger in the future. Catharsis by itself will increase the frequency of your anger and increase your need to act it out. If you hate getting angry or catharsis is getting too inconvenient, then you should really be doing something else. If you get angry in a situation where no catharsis is possible (business meeting, in the middle of a sc game, etc) then you have really fucked yourself over. Anger turns into real rage (not this fake rage that plagues gaming lingo) and you can't do anything close to your best.
If I may offer my own idea on the subject? I went through a stage (funnily enough after switching from random to zerg, go figure) of fantastic displays of utter rage. Bad manners, insulting opponents because of their strategies, putting a lovely fist sized hole in my wall then another slightly bigger hole....
I had a realization moment and started following the same ideation you wrote. However, the memory of that rage never fully went away and now it finds my way into how I play under the guise of ultra aggressive. Protoss trys to fast expand with anything less than 6 sentries? I'm going to ram units up his ramp until he quits. Some people would describe it as tilt but this is how I play when I feel weakness, regardless of my prior mental state or win/loss streak.
What I'm trying to get across is when you let yourself get extremely angry it takes more to return to how you were before than it ever took getting there. Be mindful of self control.
Oh yeah, and Destiny was right on during state of the game. The reality is some people that represent things will inadvertently or purposely give a bad reflection on what they were supposed to be representing. Whether it be politicians (Congressmen Weiner), Football players or Starcraft players; Those that represent an organization will not universally do a stellar job at it.
If you don't agree with how someone acts then make your opinion known and strive to be what you extol. But forcing everyone to behave in a professional and ... behaved way would be a world without IdrA, without ceremonies, without dramatic and emotional moments that transcend a simple match on a video game and becomes our own special modern theatre.
Imho.
Final thought: I would rather act like InControl than Destiny. Destiny is more entertaining but less respected.
I'm not offended by the word "rape", I'm offended by the meaning of it and that someone would want to use it in video games.
The fact that someone would defend using it is just .. wow.. If you have such a bad language maybe you should go back to school instead of casting games.
As someone who have a dear person who have been raped i must say this discussion is absurd. It's not that i want to force anyone to "sell out" who they are or anything, but think about it... if using the word "rape" is so important to you, who the fuck are you? It's like defending screaming "nigger" during your casts because that's who you are.
Yes, you're a shallow idiot with less than 50 iq, congrats for keeping it real.
On June 08 2011 21:59 Dystisis wrote: 1. There's a difference between swearing and using the words "fag" and "nigger". Words like "fuck" do not have a discriminatory meaning
There is a difference, but then to devout Christians Holy Shit or yelling out Jesus Christ might be seen in the same context, it isnt racist but depreciates their core of belief. We can avoid it for their sake, but it's also possible that language adapts in such a way that the term just changes meaning. Southpark's biker-fag episode shows this nicely.
2. Words do not derive their meaning simply from how an individual uses them, but from their historical use and use in ordinary language. Needless to say; were it not so, communication would be impossible.
Indeed, and those meanings shift and change. Words that in the past were deemed highly offensive are now part of our daily vocabulary.
3. If a person uses the term "fag" simply to refer to someone the person dislikes in some way, the intentions of the speaker is besides the point, as the term "fag" carries a meaning for anyone who knows the English language (and its culture of use). It is also evident that the person continues the trend of using the term in a discriminatory fashion simply from the fact that it is used as an euphemism for something terrible/bad/stupid.
See the Southpark episode on this. Ofcourse it's up to the speakers discression to be sensitive to the listener; and in a way I agree with you that certain cursewords have a bigger stigma then others simply by the inherrent hatred they (used to) inbody).
4. To say that the problem with using these words lies with members of the audience being offended is narrow-minded, and reveals a 'shallow' concern with viewer numbers and the like. That is not the problem. The problem is with what it communicates regarding our general approach to the subject which the words describe (independently of the intentions of the speaker). Using the term "rape" regarding a player being beaten in a game may very well offend some viewers, but overall the more consequential effect is that the subject of rape changes as our language-use changes. Rape becomes a substitute for domination, to win over someone, or the like, and there is an inadequacy regarding using the term for what it originally meant. This is not a comment regarding the language-use of a single person but the effects of the language-use of an entire community.
I do believe that the problem with these words is with the audience, and I'd like you to try to explain why exactly this is narrow minded. Language is a fluent thing which changes over the course of time, and certain words that would be deemed highly inappropriate can become mainstream, and derogatory meanings of words might fade and/or differ. In the context of the discussion they were having in SotG I see the point that if you are trying to pander (is that hows it's spelled?) to a crowd that gets offended at these cursewords then it's better to avoid them, however if those arent the people your trying to pander to or care about, which might well be the case, then it ends there. We give meaning to words which cause our perception of them to be good or bad, and these meanings arent rigid. Player X raped those marines with his Banelings is so obviously not-linked to the actual act op sexual abuse that taking offense to this is, in my eyes, a flaw in the sense that your letting your emotions rule your rationale. Its a completely understandable flaw, and in many cases one I wouldnt hold against people, but its a flaw nonetheless.
On June 08 2011 22:16 Nausea wrote: I'm not offended by the word "rape", I'm offended by the meaning of it and that someone would want to use it in video games.
The fact that someone would defend using it is just .. wow.. If you have such a bad language maybe you should go back to school instead of casting games.
As someone who have a dear person who have been raped i must say this discussion is absurd. It's not that i want to force anyone to "sell out" who they are or anything, but think about it... if using the word "rape" is so important to you, who the fuck are you? It's like defending screaming "nigger" during your casts because that's who you are.
Yes, you're a shallow idiot with less than 50 iq, congrats for keeping it real.
Completely agree with this post. I find those arguments ridiculous as well.
Why is it so important to call it rape instead of getting rolled, destroyed, crushed, whatever.... There are a bunch of other words that can be used to describe the exact same thing but if you don't say rape you a are selling out and that's not who you are? Well then you are an idiot, sir.
So basically people shouldnt say rape because it offends other people and there are words you can also use to avoid this. So we shouldnt say Jesus Christ! Or Holy shit! Because there are plenty of people who get offended and you can see Gosh or whatever. Same goes for common cursewords such as shit or fuck. Then there's fundamentalists offended by the mention of female bodyparts, sex in general etc. We can work around this so why shouldnt we? This doesnt (as Geoff pointed out) immediatly mean we just have to throw it all overboard but it does mean that the argument that "it might offend people and there's another word for it, so you are.. (let me scroll back) "an idiot", "need to go back to school", "shallow idiot with 50 iq"" doesn't quite hold since none of us seem to be prepared to give up exclamations of the sort I mentioned above, thus measuring with double standards. I'm sure there's a reason behind why you chose to ignore one plee and honor the next, but just "offensive and can be replaced" isnt one.
On June 08 2011 23:38 Promises wrote: So basically people shouldnt say rape because it offends other people and there are words you can also use to avoid this. So we shouldnt say Jesus Christ! Or Holy shit! Because there are plenty of people who get offended and you can see Gosh or whatever. Same goes for common cursewords such as shit or fuck. Then there's fundamentalists offended by the mention of female bodyparts, sex in general etc. We can work around this so why shouldnt we? This doesnt (as Geoff pointed out) immediatly mean we just have to throw it all overboard but it does mean that the argument that "it might offend people and there's another word for it, so you are.. (let me scroll back) "an idiot", "need to go back to school", "shallow idiot with 50 iq"" doesn't quite hold since none of us seem to be prepared to give up exclamations of the sort I mentioned above, thus measuring with double standards. I'm sure there's a reason behind why you chose to ignore one plee and honor the next, but just "offensive and can be replaced" isnt one.
And thus it would be fine to say "he got enslaved like a nigger" ? Sure it might offend some black people, but hell you can't please everyone right?
Getting offended by words like "shit", "fuck" is not the same thing. Neither is "holy shit" or "jesus christ", those might be offensive for a person with religious beliefs, key word: beliefs.
What you are trying to do is to use a word that is used to name a criminal act and you try to use it in a positive fashion, why? What is the point?
Even worse, my friend who is a rape victim watches sc2 and have to hear that shit. You can not say that f.e "killed" "kill" is the same thing, someone who got killed wont take offense because they wont be watching. Ofcourse someone close to someone who got killed might take offense. A rape victim might be watching.
So might the child or partner of a killed father or whatever be but thats besides the point. In the specific case you mentioned ie enslaved like a nigger, the word is not at all used in the new context and as such will probably be as offensive as is intended. Saying "nigga please" or something similar (the biker-fag thing from southpark) has disconnected from the orginal meaning, which was meant to hurt and offend, as does raping marines with banelings does.
On June 09 2011 00:01 Promises wrote: So might the child or partner of a killed father or whatever be but thats besides the point. In the specific case you mentioned ie enslaved like a nigger, the word is not at all used in the new context and as such will probably be as offensive as is intended. Saying "nigga please" or something similar (the biker-fag thing from southpark) has disconnected from the orginal meaning, which was meant to hurt and offend, as does raping marines with banelings does.
It's not disconnected, rape is about domination and control. Ask a victim and see how disconnected the term is.
You are defending a pointless term used for no better reason than the lack of taste for using something better. Childish "im not gonna sell out" or change who I am doesnt count, sorry.
And I'm saying that if you defend that you must be stupid. (no offense) I didnt mean it like that.
On June 08 2011 23:45 ditkaordie wrote: I found it funny when Inc said rape on Inside the game then caught himself... Really did not help his argument look any better
I find it funny when people confuse who said what on a show.
DJWheat said rape and then quickly caught himself.
On June 08 2011 21:32 Promises wrote: The Ep41 Podcast and Destiny's appearance actually makes me want to watch his stream ^^ Well defended and thought out response as to why he swears and why he chooses not to censor himself. The counterargument that just because you can't draw too clear a line doesn't mean you should just fuck all people by your language, and trying to represent yourself in a different way I think comes down to this: being offended by words that obviously do not carry the usual offensive context at the time is (in my view) a flaw. This is not to say it's not an understandable flaw; people close to me have dealt (or not so well) with cancer and at first when I heard the word used casually did spark up some emotion, but I held it to myself that this was my problem, and my fault (altho fault might not be the right word here) for not being able to rationalise this. Now ofcourse we can say it's better to be on the safe side, and why take a chance to offend someone when you can avoid it, but this would lead to tippytoe-ing trough life because people can't rationalise when they hear certain words. It's possible to want to represent a way of thinking that reflects this: sort of the sticks-n-stones attitude I guess?
1. There's a difference between swearing and using the words "fag" and "nigger". Words like "fuck" do not have a discriminatory meaning
2. Words do not derive their meaning simply from how an individual uses them, but from their historical use and use in ordinary language. Needless to say; were it not so, communication would be impossible.
3. If a person uses the term "fag" simply to refer to someone the person dislikes in some way, the intentions of the speaker is besides the point, as the term "fag" carries a meaning for anyone who knows the English language (and its culture of use). It is also evident that the person continues the trend of using the term in a discriminatory fashion simply from the fact that it is used as an euphemism for something terrible/bad/stupid.
4. To say that the problem with using these words lies with members of the audience being offended is narrow-minded, and reveals a 'shallow' concern with viewer numbers and the like. That is not the problem. The problem is with what it communicates regarding our general approach to the subject which the words describe (independently of the intentions of the speaker). Using the term "rape" regarding a player being beaten in a game may very well offend some viewers, but overall the more consequential effect is that the subject of rape changes as our language-use changes. Rape becomes a substitute for domination, to win over someone, or the like, and there is an inadequacy regarding using the term for what it originally meant. This is not a comment regarding the language-use of a single person but the effects of the language-use of an entire community.
1. so when incontrol calls people a vagina on the forums, its just as bad. because knowing they cant possible actually have a vagina he is being discriminatory.
2. words are completely subject. you can either take their meaning from the past or the present, its up to you. if i want yellow to mean green and green to mean yellow noone can stop me.
3. doesnt make any sense. words change meanings all the time. you are trying to 'put your foot down' and say fag will forever mean gay, and therefore its forever off limits.
4. completely irrelevant. as people like destiny have already made clear. how he talks in his stream is completely separate to the 'ESPORTS starcraft'.
swearing and raging on a stream is equivalent to swearing while playing with friends in the park, or at home. by going on to his stream you are accepting that you are going in to 'his house'. the nasl or gomtv is the nba or nfl or our sport. and there you expect professionally.
EPT
