It's listening to the various shows about starcraft and "esports" (SotG, WoC and LoT mainly) that I often feel reminded that there isn't just one community. There's the community that's made up of the pros and the people involved in actually doing stuff with and for the game and then there's the community that's made up of people who post on TL or reddit or go into the various stream chats. The community of people involved is an overall positive thing. They rarely have anything genuinly bad to say about one another and have fun joking around and interacting. There may be the occassional dramas or rivalries but they're rarely serious. Then there's the community of posters which has it's moments of positivity but seemingly more and more times of overwhelming negativity. Part of this is likely when someone thinks something is good they will just be content and won't post anything about it but when they think it's bad the internet ragedemon takes over. To mirror the point of a post I made in the FHM thread. The reason that the interview didn't show the community in a good light (beyond the fact that the editors have control and Kelly did mention somewhere that she did say more than what was posted) is the fact that when it comes to Kelly the community has not been good. There's just this seething ball of hate directed at Kelly. I think a lot of the reason why is that she simply went from being relatively unknown (correct me if I'm wrong) to casting the GSL. People not only upset that they weren't getting Tastosis every night also find out that they're being broken up by not only someone with a moderately thick accent but a woman with a moderately thick accent. This just set people off. I started this wanting to make the point that before you go on about how someone is putting the "esports"/starcraft community in a bad light is such a bad thing to maybe look at what they're talking about first. If we want to be presented as great as we think we are then we should actually make sure we're that great first. As an aside another forum I frequent deals with massive volumes of posters by making personal and group attacks against the rules. It makes the enviroment overall much nicer and makes discussions often more involved. I'm curious as to what people would think of this kind of ruling here. It's not perfect and probably would create a lot more work for mods I suppose.
I have about the same opinion as you, ArturosII. Like you, I think the FHM interview that was printed warrants criticizing the hate posts and emails, rather than Kelly and the FHM writer and editors. I could not post anything in the TL thread. I looked a bit through it on the first two days or so, and after that stopped clicking on it whenever I see it on the TL sidebar.
I rather post something positive if I feel content, than post that I hate something. If I do not like something, most of the time my train of thought goes "meh... probably not for me, I guess I am not part of the target audience," and go look at some other thread. All the hate posts in that thread made me decide I should not look at it anymore. I predict it would probably aggravate me.
The same happens with the thread about Anna and the Miss USA competition. It feels as if those two threads are staring at me from the sidebar, but I am afraid to click on them and logic tells me, my gut feeling is probably right.
I also have the SC2 strategy forum entries on the side bar collapsed since the first few weeks after the game came out. Every thread disappointed me. I heard that the mods managed to turn that sub-forum around, but I did not miss not having the top-5 posts from there on the sidebar, so now it will stay collapsed forever.
What I want to say is, what you theorized about people not posting if they are content, could be a bit wrong. Myself, I am not posting more negative stuff than positive feedback. I generally decide to post if I have something new to say that was not already expressed in a post by someone else. Some threads have too much posts that I disagree with, criticizing every single post feels like a waste of time, and I do not want to do personal attacks on the posters. This means my positive posts are actually driven away by hate posts.
I swear I was almost in tears laughing at Geoffs shoutouts this week. :D 1hr3 minutes into the MP3.
Just me or is EG masters cup is a bit underhyped? No mention this week, I don't think anyone commented on the games except to complain that TL wasn't in it, and viewer wise some streamers they seem to be lower than some of the top single streamers even though they have great casters in the form of DJ Wheat and some other guy (huge wheat fan hehe).
What was shown in that FHM thread was the reality of an unsalvageable community. As many expected when SC2 came out, the community grew exponentially every month. The larger a community gets, the worse and less serious it becomes. In Brood War, the community was a relatively small community consisting of serious gamers and serious spectators. At least the portion of those types of people were big enough to drown out trolls and haters.
People like Day[9] still see the community as the greatest gaming community in the world, because what the community once was, the nostalgia of it if you will, still lingers in his imagination. Then theres people like IdrA who tells things, as he often does, exactly as they are. The community as a whole HAS turned to shit, and it shouldn't surprise anyone.
When I say it is unsalvageable, I was not being truthful. There is one way to redeem it. That is through time. When the portion of serious people becomes big enough to drown out the trolls, then, and only then, will the community offer what a good community should.
Disclaimer! This is of course just my humble opinion.
On May 20 2011 02:37 Ballack wrote: What was shown in that FHM thread was the reality of an unsalvageable community. As many expected when SC2 came out, the community grew exponentially every month. The larger a community gets, the worse and less serious it becomes. In Brood War, the community was a relatively small community consisting of serious gamers and serious spectators. At least the portion of those types of people were big enough to drown out trolls and haters.
People like Day[9] still see the community as the greatest gaming community in the world, because what the community once was, the nostalgia of it if you will, still lingers in his imagination. Then theres people like IdrA who tells things, as he often does, exactly as they are. The community as a whole HAS turned to shit, and it shouldn't surprise anyone.
The only way to heal it is through time. When the portion of serious people becomes big enough to drown out the trolls, then, and only then, will the community offer what a good community should.
Disclaimer! This is of course just my humble opinion.
For Day[9] and the way he sees the community, I doubt he doesn't know that substantial parts of the current community are garbage, but it's not something you want to endlessly harp on or bring up outside the context of say a StarCraft 2-E-Sports-community type show which State of the Game is.
Also, its Day[9], I would argue hes a much less polarizing figure in the community and what he receives is may more praise than scorn when compared to other figures who people love, but also have a lot more anti-fans.
Gaming communities in general are rather disgusting. TL community is quite good relative to other communities I have seen and been a part of. This is the unfortunate reality we live in. People are just animals and this comes out on the internet even more so than in real life.
On May 20 2011 02:37 Ballack wrote: What was shown in that FHM thread was the reality of an unsalvageable community. As many expected when SC2 came out, the community grew exponentially every month. The larger a community gets, the worse and less serious it becomes. In Brood War, the community was a relatively small community consisting of serious gamers and serious spectators. At least the portion of those types of people were big enough to drown out trolls and haters.
People like Day[9] still see the community as the greatest gaming community in the world, because what the community once was, the nostalgia of it if you will, still lingers in his imagination. Then theres people like IdrA who tells things, as he often does, exactly as they are. The community as a whole HAS turned to shit, and it shouldn't surprise anyone.
When I say it is unsalvageable, I was not being truthful. There is one way to redeem it. That is through time. When the portion of serious people becomes big enough to drown out the trolls, then, and only then, will the community offer what a good community should.
Disclaimer! This is of course just my humble opinion.
Day9 meets people from the community in real life tough. I was at Dreamhack Invitational and everyone was really nice and it felt like everyone just wanted great games and to have fun. I think that people just say whatever shit they want online. Just look at some stuff from Idra/incontrol posted on these forums, it's pretty foul and they seem like great guys IRL.
I especially liked Geoff’s comments on the FHM article. I do think there is some element of kids picking on girls to get their attention – but I think it’s more than that. I think some less mature people find attractive women to be offensive, because they can so easily get the attention these people want. Random guy (whose age may or may not be relevant) really wants the SC2 community to pay attention to and respect him, and then along comes this girl who can get the attention he wants by being a girl who likes video games, and the “its not fair” flamewar insues under the guise of “virtue” and “professional behavior”.
Same goes with Anna, really. If any random poster had Anna’s comments about SC2 issues, we wouldn’t think much of it. But because she’s an attractive girl, and because she’s involved with Geoff, she gets exposure and attention for it. It’s so easy to be spiteful and so hard to deal with jealousy the healthy way that we see a predominance of the aggressive, hurtful behavior instead of the more healthy attitude of “man, I’d love to be singled out like that – good for her”.
I also loved what was said about the excessive amount of negative posting on TL and on the internet. Wait, wait, something’s not right with my post here…
Oh right, this is the internet, so I guess I’m supposed to be rude and swear a lot about stuff that doesn’t matter. Let me start over.
I found the way Incontrol was sitting yesterday to be ridiculous. It’s a slap in the face to slouchers every where. Seriously man, how the fuck is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you’re leaning forward like that. RAWRAWRAWR….
…some stuff about you shitting on the community… how dare you not consider my feelings with your beverage choice… oh yeah, and the obligatory “your sister is ugly”.
Hey JP, do you know why the RSS feed shows so many files (even files that don't exist any more in the server)? Have you uploaded it more than once, or is a problem on blip.tv's side?
Ex.
I've been tweeting with Blip.tv's CEO and I now that I have his attention I'd like to provide more feedback regarding their new layout, such as providing a link to the RSS feed at the show's homepage, and if possible linking the files in each episode page.
On May 20 2011 02:37 Ballack wrote: What was shown in that FHM thread was the reality of an unsalvageable community. As many expected when SC2 came out, the community grew exponentially every month. The larger a community gets, the worse and less serious it becomes. In Brood War, the community was a relatively small community consisting of serious gamers and serious spectators. At least the portion of those types of people were big enough to drown out trolls and haters.
People like Day[9] still see the community as the greatest gaming community in the world, because what the community once was, the nostalgia of it if you will, still lingers in his imagination. Then theres people like IdrA who tells things, as he often does, exactly as they are. The community as a whole HAS turned to shit, and it shouldn't surprise anyone.
When I say it is unsalvageable, I was not being truthful. There is one way to redeem it. That is through time. When the portion of serious people becomes big enough to drown out the trolls, then, and only then, will the community offer what a good community should.
Disclaimer! This is of course just my humble opinion.
I think your taking Kellys criticism way too far. That interview did little to help the Gaming community, and instead painted us as raging psycho nerds or even an unsalvageable community.
When a community overwhelmingly dissaproves of your content, then you just go strip naked for a magazine and then call them psycho nerds what kind of response do you think you will get? While at the same time doing nothing for that community in said interview. I dunno, I just don't see why your all defending her. She obviously dose not care about the quality of her product/content, and would much rather just get naked and laugh at people who offer valid criticism.
On May 20 2011 06:29 DataMiner wrote: What kind of alias is "ItmeJP" It's really retarded IMO
User was temp banned for this post.
I was just checking his post history before reporting for that post, mods are too on top of things!
I really hope next sotg does some analysis of the destiny zvz build, if only to provide people with counters/tell people to stop doing it every single game. Should get tasteless and day[9] on the same webcam too! the only time we've seen them together since old MLGs was that one blizzcon...