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On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me.
Just as a thought:
What's more entertaining, bickering schoolchildren or courteous professionals?
For me, the obvious answer is the first of the two, and I'll be the first to admit that my answer isn't the only true answer. What's more entertaining for me isn't necessarily what's more entertaining for everyone; Other people might sincerely prefer courteous professionals.
In either case, I feel it would be entirely wrong to censor players' opinions in favour of what one would assume is a better future. I mean, how many people watch IdrA's games largely because he might hilariously bad-manner someone like a bickering schoolchild? Can you really say that the world would prefer if IdrA was courteous and manner in all his games? On the flipside, should Sheth be shunned for being so manner in most of his games (I SAID MOST!) to cater to the people of the world that prefer the drama?
Though Incontrol making snide comments about Desrow isn't "professional" per se, I have a hard time believing that it actually hurts the community or people's perspectives on SC2 professionals.
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On May 19 2011 10:46 Staboteur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. Just as a thought: What's more entertaining, bickering schoolchildren or courteous professionals? For me, the obvious answer is the first of the two, and I'll be the first to admit that my answer isn't the only true answer. What's more entertaining for me isn't necessarily what's more entertaining for everyone; Other people might sincerely prefer courteous professionals. In either case, I feel it would be entirely wrong to censor players' opinions in favour of what one would assume is a better future. I mean, how many people watch IdrA's games largely because he might hilariously bad-manner someone like a bickering schoolchild? Can you really say that the world would prefer if IdrA was courteous and manner in all his games? On the flipside, should Sheth be shunned for being so manner in most of his games (I SAID MOST!) to cater to the people of the world that prefer the drama? Though Incontrol making snide comments about Desrow isn't "professional" per se, I have a hard time believing that it actually hurts the community or people's perspectives on SC2 professionals.
I think people are taking sotg wayyyyy too seriously. This show is no official eg/tl/mlg announcement, it's some dudes talking about their perspective as professional players. It is recorded so we can be a part of what is in it's essence some friends sitting in a room talking about starcraft and everything (more or less) related. Have you seen Incontrol ranting or insulting players personally during his (professional) job as caster on the nasl stream? NO! Can Desrow watch state of the game and decide for himself wether or not he takes things personally? YES!
If you want drama watch gossip girl or something.... people should stop making issues out of everything a player might have said on stream.
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On May 19 2011 11:16 Turbo.Tactics wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:46 Staboteur wrote:On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. Just as a thought: What's more entertaining, bickering schoolchildren or courteous professionals? For me, the obvious answer is the first of the two, and I'll be the first to admit that my answer isn't the only true answer. What's more entertaining for me isn't necessarily what's more entertaining for everyone; Other people might sincerely prefer courteous professionals. In either case, I feel it would be entirely wrong to censor players' opinions in favour of what one would assume is a better future. I mean, how many people watch IdrA's games largely because he might hilariously bad-manner someone like a bickering schoolchild? Can you really say that the world would prefer if IdrA was courteous and manner in all his games? On the flipside, should Sheth be shunned for being so manner in most of his games (I SAID MOST!) to cater to the people of the world that prefer the drama? Though Incontrol making snide comments about Desrow isn't "professional" per se, I have a hard time believing that it actually hurts the community or people's perspectives on SC2 professionals. I think people are taking sotg wayyyyy too seriously. This show is no official eg/tl/mlg announcement, it's some dudes talking about their perspective as professional players. It is recorded so we can be a part of what is in it's essence some friends sitting in a room talking about starcraft and everything (more or less) related. Have you seen Incontrol ranting or insulting players personally during his (professional) job as caster on the nasl stream? NO! Can Desrow watch state of the game and decide for himself wether or not he takes things personally? YES! If you want drama watch gossip girl or something.... people should stop making issues out of everything a player might have said on stream.
When negative things are said about our community from within our own community this hurts us twice.
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Mp3 download is so slow. 33KB/s.
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On May 19 2011 11:50 hiawatha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 11:16 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On May 19 2011 10:46 Staboteur wrote:On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. Just as a thought: What's more entertaining, bickering schoolchildren or courteous professionals? For me, the obvious answer is the first of the two, and I'll be the first to admit that my answer isn't the only true answer. What's more entertaining for me isn't necessarily what's more entertaining for everyone; Other people might sincerely prefer courteous professionals. In either case, I feel it would be entirely wrong to censor players' opinions in favour of what one would assume is a better future. I mean, how many people watch IdrA's games largely because he might hilariously bad-manner someone like a bickering schoolchild? Can you really say that the world would prefer if IdrA was courteous and manner in all his games? On the flipside, should Sheth be shunned for being so manner in most of his games (I SAID MOST!) to cater to the people of the world that prefer the drama? Though Incontrol making snide comments about Desrow isn't "professional" per se, I have a hard time believing that it actually hurts the community or people's perspectives on SC2 professionals. I think people are taking sotg wayyyyy too seriously. This show is no official eg/tl/mlg announcement, it's some dudes talking about their perspective as professional players. It is recorded so we can be a part of what is in it's essence some friends sitting in a room talking about starcraft and everything (more or less) related. Have you seen Incontrol ranting or insulting players personally during his (professional) job as caster on the nasl stream? NO! Can Desrow watch state of the game and decide for himself wether or not he takes things personally? YES! If you want drama watch gossip girl or something.... people should stop making issues out of everything a player might have said on stream. When negative things are said about our community from within our own community this hurts us twice.
Generalized posts like yours are exactly what I meant with "take it too seriously"...
The point I'm trying to make is that those things are said within the community not as an official statement to outsiders. Therefore not hurting the community at all. In my opinion it would break TL or any other community if we weren't allowed to communicate with each other, negative or not.
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On May 19 2011 12:04 Mitchlew wrote:
Mp3 download is so slow. 33KB/s.
i think pause/unpause/pause etc speeds it up?
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"...Desrow..."
Seriously, Desrow get free stream and your own web cam and you can respond any way you like...I'll watch, I have no life. Bleh at least you were mentioned by such cool dudes!!!
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On May 19 2011 12:08 L3g3nd_ wrote:i think pause/unpause/pause etc speeds it up?
Not today
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lol at the artosis rant, i remember seeing it live, laughed my ass off,
the best part is when artosis says
" is there a ZSL?"
(slowly deciphers his own abbreviation)
" The Zelda ... Starcraft II league?"
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On May 19 2011 12:06 Turbo.Tactics wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 11:50 hiawatha wrote:On May 19 2011 11:16 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On May 19 2011 10:46 Staboteur wrote:On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. Just as a thought: What's more entertaining, bickering schoolchildren or courteous professionals? For me, the obvious answer is the first of the two, and I'll be the first to admit that my answer isn't the only true answer. What's more entertaining for me isn't necessarily what's more entertaining for everyone; Other people might sincerely prefer courteous professionals. In either case, I feel it would be entirely wrong to censor players' opinions in favour of what one would assume is a better future. I mean, how many people watch IdrA's games largely because he might hilariously bad-manner someone like a bickering schoolchild? Can you really say that the world would prefer if IdrA was courteous and manner in all his games? On the flipside, should Sheth be shunned for being so manner in most of his games (I SAID MOST!) to cater to the people of the world that prefer the drama? Though Incontrol making snide comments about Desrow isn't "professional" per se, I have a hard time believing that it actually hurts the community or people's perspectives on SC2 professionals. I think people are taking sotg wayyyyy too seriously. This show is no official eg/tl/mlg announcement, it's some dudes talking about their perspective as professional players. It is recorded so we can be a part of what is in it's essence some friends sitting in a room talking about starcraft and everything (more or less) related. Have you seen Incontrol ranting or insulting players personally during his (professional) job as caster on the nasl stream? NO! Can Desrow watch state of the game and decide for himself wether or not he takes things personally? YES! If you want drama watch gossip girl or something.... people should stop making issues out of everything a player might have said on stream. When negative things are said about our community from within our own community this hurts us twice. Generalized posts like yours are exactly what I meant with "take it too seriously"... The point I'm trying to make is that those things are said within the community not as an official statement to outsiders. Therefore not hurting the community at all. In my opinion it would break TL or any other community if we weren't allowed to communicate with each other, negative or not.
I think the remark of hiawatha was aimed more at the FHM article with Kelly and SotG was disgustingly positive about it. FHM did focus about all the bad but dramatic parts of the death threats and haters and such and thus Kelly didnt do the community a service and we have to be happy it is only the Singaporean edition.
SotG is the original SC2 drama show and it is popular in part because of that drama. That doesnt mean they dont overdo the drama sometimes, which can be bad for the internal peace and quiet of the community.
And just another remark to Staboteur's comment about what is more entertaining ... bickering or politeness:
You can be witty and entertaining while being polite ... and bickering can make you appear lots of IQ points lower than you are.
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On May 19 2011 12:13 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 12:08 L3g3nd_ wrote:On May 19 2011 12:04 Mitchlew wrote:
Mp3 download is so slow. 33KB/s. i think pause/unpause/pause etc speeds it up? Not today
damn, hmm just downloaded it, was only going at 48
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Just heard incontrols indian accent. By far and away his best!
Oh, and Hotbid is a boss.
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Yeah, Hot_Bid and Sheth were fun.
You guys need Hot_Bid on more often. ^__^
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On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me.
you really wrote all that? You were legitimately bothered by the desrow joke? the problem isnt the joke, or that we're going to be "portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.". The problem is that you (and probably others like you) took offense to something so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Food for thought. The moral of the story is stop caring about small shit that doesn't even matter.
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On May 19 2011 17:32 dANiELcanuck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. you really wrote all that? You were legitimately bothered by the desrow joke? the problem isnt the joke, or that we're going to be "portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.". The problem is that you (and probably others like you) took offense to something so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Food for thought. The moral of the story is stop caring about small shit that doesn't even matter.
The real problem is that people have stopped caring about small issues - calling it individual freedom of speech / expression or whatever - long ago and we now face the consequences: Lots of idiots running around and making money by being rude / using foul language(*1). That doesnt improve humanity and whoever says we should chill about it has not thought about those consequences.
If we dont strive to improve humanity we might just as well go back to the good old caveman times where the dude with the biggest club decides ... otherwise we are just having a stagnant time of human history which only "improves" by spending ever more energy because they are lazy. So I wish there were more people like Sheth and Day[9] and fewer people like iNcontrol and IdrA in the community. If you advise others to "chill" you are just too lazy / complacent to have some principles to defend.
Grow a spine and get some principles (hint: NOT having principles isnt a principle). Its harder to be witty and nice to people than simply make fun of someone in an aggressive and demeaning way.
(*1) Just to clarify: I dont mean anyone from the SC2 scene with that remark but rather rappers and Charlie Sheen and whoever are getting paid and are "getting clicked" for "f-words" or using that stereotypical "sex sells".
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On May 19 2011 17:50 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 17:32 dANiELcanuck wrote:On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. you really wrote all that? You were legitimately bothered by the desrow joke? the problem isnt the joke, or that we're going to be "portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.". The problem is that you (and probably others like you) took offense to something so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Food for thought. The moral of the story is stop caring about small shit that doesn't even matter. The real problem is that people have stopped caring about small issues - calling it individual freedom of speech / expression or whatever - long ago and we now face the consequences: Lots of idiots running around and making money by being rude / using foul language(*1). That doesnt improve humanity and whoever says we should chill about it has not thought about those consequences. If we dont strive to improve humanity we might just as well go back to the good old caveman times where the dude with the biggest club decides ... otherwise we are just having a stagnant time of human history which only "improves" by spending ever more energy because they are lazy. So I wish there were more people like Sheth and Day[9] and fewer people like iNcontrol and IdrA in the community. If you advise others to "chill" you are just too lazy / complacent to have some principles to defend. Grow a spine and get some principles (hint: NOT having principles isnt a principle). Its harder to be witty and nice to people than simply make fun of someone in an aggressive and demeaning way. (*1) Just to clarify: I dont mean anyone from the SC2 scene with that remark but rather rappers and Charlie Sheen and whoever are getting paid and are "getting clicked" for "f-words" or using that stereotypical "sex sells".
>principles
>improving humanity
I can't believe you're typing all this shit out over nothing, get over it.
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On May 19 2011 17:50 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 17:32 dANiELcanuck wrote:On May 19 2011 10:24 moltenlead wrote:
I just listened to the state of the game recently, and there were some parts of the show that did trouble me when looking at the community as a whole. The one that I will focus on is at the end, at around 1:59:30, where Incontrol decides to make a mention of desrow leaving vVv.
While I do understand that in any community, there will always be inside jokes floating around, and there are people who will inevitably have jokes made about them by their peers; the snide way in which those comments were made happened to run counter to the professional side this community has been striving to portray was slightly upsetting.
I fully believe that when one person has another comment to say about another, they should do it to their face, rather than attacking them behind their back on a show that they most likely won't have a chance to defend themselves on. Unfortunately, today desrow was a victim of that. I understand that there may have been some sort of history between the two players given a youtube video posted in another TL thread, but I also understand that thread was posted very long ago. It started off amusingly, but as the joke progressed it seemed to transcend that boundary into an attacking territory.
TLDR: Whatever bad blood there is between players should be sorted out personally, not publicly, and this community does need to present a better face to the world. Consider whether we want gamers to be portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.
Just a few thoughts on an instance that did concern me. you really wrote all that? You were legitimately bothered by the desrow joke? the problem isnt the joke, or that we're going to be "portrayed as bickering school children or courteous professionals.". The problem is that you (and probably others like you) took offense to something so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Food for thought. The moral of the story is stop caring about small shit that doesn't even matter. The real problem is that people have stopped caring about small issues - calling it individual freedom of speech / expression or whatever - long ago and we now face the consequences: Lots of idiots running around and making money by being rude / using foul language(*1). That doesnt improve humanity and whoever says we should chill about it has not thought about those consequences. If we dont strive to improve humanity we might just as well go back to the good old caveman times where the dude with the biggest club decides ... otherwise we are just having a stagnant time of human history which only "improves" by spending ever more energy because they are lazy. So I wish there were more people like Sheth and Day[9] and fewer people like iNcontrol and IdrA in the community. If you advise others to "chill" you are just too lazy / complacent to have some principles to defend. Grow a spine and get some principles (hint: NOT having principles isnt a principle). Its harder to be witty and nice to people than simply make fun of someone in an aggressive and demeaning way. (*1) Just to clarify: I dont mean anyone from the SC2 scene with that remark but rather rappers and Charlie Sheen and whoever are getting paid and are "getting clicked" for "f-words" or using that stereotypical "sex sells".
back in my day/kids these days/get off my lawn/uphill both ways etc.
Seriously, since when was it SotG's job to "improve humanity" or "be professional" or "promote esports" or whatever asinine bullshit you're trying to talk about; they're a bunch of guys talking about Starcraft, nothing less, nothing more. They aren't responsible for... well, frankly, anything, besides maybe inc and JP having to be somewhat responsible because they're representatives of NASL and MLG, respectively.
It's really telling that you somehow think modern society is awful because RAP SINGERS AND CHARLIE SHEEN AND THE F-WORD. You do realize that every single generation ever in the history of time has had some radical new blah-blah that people pointed to as a sign of the end of civilized society, and society has yet to crumble? You're seriously the kind of person who flipped a shit because they showed Elvis shaking his hips on television.
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How can i download the video file? it seems its not possible with the new blip.tv interface....
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Nice! thanks!
How did you find this link? just to know for the next time.
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EPT
