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On May 07 2011 17:53 Raiznhell wrote:Don't click the spoiler if you haven't watched Code S but as it stands: + Show Spoiler +Zerg is in a position to win it's 3rd GSL championship over the 2 of Protoss and 2 (if including World Championship) Terran. This shows at a completely literal level that Zerg CAN win which completely proves IdrA to be venting and whining. IdrA needs to seriously cut the hyperbolic bullshit about Zerg being "unwinnable" ESPECIALLY after just winning a finals against one of the best foreigner Protoss. Like how absurd does that look. I mean he's got to stop calling X thing imbalanced and start to fit in with the fact that Starcraft meta-game is constantly changing and along with it the dominant race/players. IdrA thinks he should be the best because he played in Korea as a CJ Entus B-Teamer for awhile in BW. What he seems to fail to realize is that all the dominant Korean Pros of the other races were B-Teamer players for even longer than he was as well as A-Team players like friggin Mvp. NaDa was a friggin Legend and he's not winning championships with what seems to be an overpowered race in IdrA's eyes. And NaDa was even still winning a lot of games towards the end of his BW career unlike most of the other BW pros or B-Team players that switched over. The worst part of IdrA's whining is that it contradicts itself. Zerg might be hard to play but saying it's unwinnable is just damn stupid and over dramatic whining.
Idra would have left 1,000,000 times in nestea vs scfou game 5. Nestea is a true champion.
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On May 07 2011 20:10 zeru wrote:
Let's say what idra claims is actually correct, even IF zergs scouting is worse than other races which they can't do anything about in the early game, and even IF zerg will never have access to a build that can defend even remotely as good against as many things as the other races, even if both these unlikely scenarios are true at the same time, this does NOT prove any imbalance. It could be that this is necessary to maintain the balance, we don't know because we have no data to work with, you have to remember how complicated this game actually is. All we have are win statistics as actual data. Opinions aren't accurate enough to actually matter, because they aren't facts, they are opinions for a reason. This in my eyes is the main problem with discussing balance and makes it somewhat pointless.
Don't think "actual data" is conclusive, either.
After all, if we were to base on the "actual data", then TvZ is imba, T being OP.
I don't think it's the case. Do you?
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2011 18:54 Raiznhell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 18:16 Pyo wrote:
The last 20 pages of this thread pretty much sum up why the last episode of SOTG was the worst episode ever. Nothing meaningful was really discussed, no interesting insights into the game were had, and EVERYONE came off as being worse than they were before (except for Tasteless because he didn't really say anything):
Geoff came off as a debate team douche even if he "won" the debate he didn't really represent his position well.
Tyler came off as a pussy for not arguing his side strongly enough at best or an elitist jerk if you actually bought into Geoff's argument.
Greg further exemplified his whininess about balance, which even if correct don't really matter to anyone except him and his annoyingly vocal legion of followers.
Bryce was forced into a situation where he either agreed with Greg and looked like his zergling lapdog or further feed the whining.
By refusing to engage with Greg in a meaningless balance discussion, Sean came off as being ignorant of the game or at best came off as an elitist jerk for refusing to discuss balance.
JP looked like a deer in the headlights in deciding not to step in an moderate both pointless debates.
And the viewer came out feeling all the dumber. The idralings now feel that they're arguments and whine are justified because Day9 refused to engage. TL and EG fans think less of both sides given that it was all based mostly on misunderstandings/failed efforts to save face. And worst of all, this was the episode that SOTG broke 20k viewers - what a shame, especially since most of them were likely first time viewers from various places like 4chan where people created advertisement threads.
Honestly, I'm just going to pretend that last week's episode never happened and hope that the hosts take some sort of moral stand against having a 2-3 hour show filled with pointless drama just because it they got a bunch of viewers. TBH I actually agree with most of that except the part about Geoff I mean Tyler I don't even think understood his own arguments and Geoff was merely defending Colbi and pretty much every TL poster out there because it seems to be that in Tyler's perfect TL after hearing his points would be that no one is allowed to post EVER unless it's what your currently thinking without being altered at all. TL would be News-less, tournament-less, and lack any and all forms of professionalism were Tyler to have his perfect TL given what he said on the show. A forum is a place to inform, discuss, debate and simply engage with other people in a community setting. Colbi's actions fell under the inform part so in what way was he wrong at all? As for the whole deception bit which Colbi wasn't doing but honestly even outside of a forum how often is anybody 100% truthful, how can you tell? You can't. If Tyler really trusted every post he's ever read on TL ever then I feel sad for him because forum posters for the most part are faceless so why should you trust them. Just read the damn post and take it for what it is. The kind of posts Team Liquid shouldn't want are just retarded troll posts or meaningless posts although Nada's Body is obviously a showing that even meaningless posts are epic. Basically the only posts TL shouldn't welcome are IdrA-like posts and TL should welcome anything that provides TL and it's posters something to talk about.
It's not really the content incontrol was debating about that was bad it was more the way how he was debating. Bad analogy's, constantly trying to talk louder than Tyler, exaggerating a lot of things tyler said. It just wasn't nice to listen to.
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On May 07 2011 19:57 Raiznhell wrote:
To simply put. Why should anyone listen to a guy who wins a finals playing Zerg and turns around and says Zerg is "unwinnable".
Well he clearly doesn't mean "unwinnable" in the ultimate sence its just that it takes so much more effort and luck from a zerg to win then either of the other two races. When I say effort I mean you really have to outsmart your opponent since you can't go deathball vs deathball and you need to get an early lead so your safe versus all-ins. The lack of efficent scouting makes it random and once we get past the mid game the terran and protoss army have a better chance of winning a big battle if setup right. All tho I do think TvZ is balanced in the later stages the first 7-10min is a bitch as zerg.
and ofcourse zerg has strengths and potential and a straight up buff might be freaking scary but I don't see a reason not to increase overlord speed or give overlord speed either with lair or available for research at hach since that would at least take away the coinflip factor some what.
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The futur mass usage of the ghost in TvZ might change the balanced status of the match up, wich might lead to a zerg buff...
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On May 07 2011 19:55 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 19:40 Arisen wrote:
People just aren't willing to listen...
IdrA says: Zerg have a hard time scouting early game because of building walls and denying overlord scouting. Because Zerg doesn't have a build that defends against everything early game without leaving your economy behind, if he denies scouting and you guessed wrong, you are at a disadvantage because with those same building walls, you don't have a lot of agression potential if you overcompensate.
People Hear: Zerg is underpowered, Terran and Protoss are ridiculously overpowered and zerg will never ever win anything.
People respond: Nuh - Uh, that's not what Day[9] said! You're just whining! What possible experience could you have in this arena!?
Guess what? IdrA puts in more time into this game than just about anyone not living in Korea. He is insanely good. He has some of the best mechanics in the world. Do you think he and just about every other zerg out there are losing as some sort of grand scheme to hit Terran and Protoss with the nerf bat and small buffs applied to zerg and suddenly bust out the "real" playstyle in 6 months cackling madly "hahaha, we were overpowered the whole time!"? No. He and just about every zerg is having problems in this arena. It's so easy to get into a disadvantaged spot early game. What top Zerg hasn't expressed that they think zerg is disadvantaged? I can't think of any.
Sure, IdrA is a lot more vocal, or at least a lot more accessible to teh foreigner community, so everyone hears him and he has a ton of anti fans because he's vocal. That's fine, you don't have to like someone just because they're good at starcraft, however, don't be a mindless sheep who blindly disagrees because he's talking about how (*gasp*) zerg feels vulnerable in the early game. Access what he's trying to say, because he's not saying it for the fuck of it, he's saying it because that's what goes on. WHat I have a problem with is every race has trouble scouting not just zerg. At least zerg have ovie to get near edge of base and zergling to continously run up ramp to check what unit is at wall. Think about what toss and terran does to scout. Terran do have scan but it is extremely costly. It basically cost as much as blindly putting down 2 spine crawler. Protoss also has trouble scouting past its own ramp. Other than pool timing, toss sees nothing. Idra has only been saying zerg has trouble scouting. Why hasn't he addressed other races? Sentry is good at defense but if you rush early 1-2 sentry can't hold ramp indefintely especially if you hit before warpgate. Terrans also constantly fear baneling bust. I mean if you just look at progression of toss builds and zerg builds. People are adapting to less scouting info. At beginning of beta, toss basically went forge expand(not counting 2 gate zealots bullshit in close position) copied from broodwar in every game/every map, but toss players soon realized can't hold against many all ins of zerg and switched to a much less econ opening. Zerg has also been doing a lot more speedling openings instead of hatch first. The thing you can't just talk about giving zerg this and that. At this time, all race is doing a lot of guessing. If you give 1 race a lot more info then the others what will happen? I agree mechanically idra is a good player, but taking balance advice from a pro is never smart for obvious reasons.
Yes, the infallible information given by a scan or observer is comparable to seeing the edges of someone elses base, totally >< The issue is zerg has no way to insure he's going to see what he needs to see because it's so easy to set 2-3 marines or sentry/stalker on the perimiter and deny the overlord. Sure, Terrans give up a mule for a scan (which doesn't cost money, it's an opportunity cost), and protoss give up some energy on their sentry or time on their robotics, but is absolutley going to work. If you scan, you get that info. if you make a hullucinated phoenix, it's fast enough to get in. If you make an observer, you're seeing in. Until overlord speed comes out, there's no way to be sure you can scout him, which means zergs have to guess weather a crazy all in is coming, and if they guess wrong it costs them the game.
Anyway, I give up. People are just going to keep flaming IdrA because it's IdrA, and they're dead set that he's wrong and they obviously know more about this game than he possibly could ><. No reason reasoning with someone who won't listen to reason, I suppose. I swear, people complain more about IdrA complaining that IdrA actually complains.
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Yes, the infallible information given by a scan or observer is comparable to seeing the edges of someone elses base, totally
How are they infaillible? Is spotted, an observer will see a lot less than an OV. A scan is the most "coin flip" of scouting methods. You can see his tech and army, his army, his tech, or jackshit. You cant miss EVERYTHING with an obs or an OV, since you can keep scouting until they are dead. And then, you see what kills them.
Edit: yes, the mule cost him money. Building his orbital command cost him 3 SCV in both minerals and build time. The terran ends up having 3 workers less than a protoss who dont chronoboost his nexus. The mule harvest as much minerals as those three SCV. Every time he scan, he effectively lose the economy he paid for.
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My grain of salt in the idra/day9 drama:
I think day9 was not prepared to engage a debate, so he had not a lot of good arguments and he is also ultra busy with his school stuff.
On the other hand IdrA has his speach about imbalance ready since a long time so he had kind of prepared any balance discussion and since he is in USA he play with machine and discuss with him so they must speak about balance often.
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God damnit why does SotG only happen once a week ;___________; SC Centre is such a great great way of getting all the news, but it lacks the drama, and the runtime of this.
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On May 07 2011 18:02 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
His base statement about zerg's feeling as though they're forced to coinflip in many situations would probably be viewed as correct by most people. He thinks it makes for bad balance, design, and games in general.
I think this is what it fundamentally comes down to. And my question to IdrA would be: is a coinflip chance on an opening really that bad in terms of the game's design? Starcraft is fundamentally more like poker than like chess, in that you always have imperfect information and have to take chances on what you don't know.
Even if IdrA is occasionally forced to take a chance that might auto-lose him a game or two here or there, he's still able to tilt the odds in his favor with good interpretation of the limited information he does have, winning 80% of his ladder games as well as major tournaments. Plus, from a spectator's point of view, it forces him to be more varied and aggressive in his playstyle, which makes for more exciting games to watch.
I think that IdrA's comments about inability to scout might have been correct as far as they went, and I also think that, in the moment, Day[9] was just not quite able to think fast enough on his feet to answer him coherently, but that doesn't mean the devs changing the game to answer IdrA's concerns is the right choice.
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On May 07 2011 20:54 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 19:55 xbankx wrote:On May 07 2011 19:40 Arisen wrote:
People just aren't willing to listen...
IdrA says: Zerg have a hard time scouting early game because of building walls and denying overlord scouting. Because Zerg doesn't have a build that defends against everything early game without leaving your economy behind, if he denies scouting and you guessed wrong, you are at a disadvantage because with those same building walls, you don't have a lot of agression potential if you overcompensate.
People Hear: Zerg is underpowered, Terran and Protoss are ridiculously overpowered and zerg will never ever win anything.
People respond: Nuh - Uh, that's not what Day[9] said! You're just whining! What possible experience could you have in this arena!?
Guess what? IdrA puts in more time into this game than just about anyone not living in Korea. He is insanely good. He has some of the best mechanics in the world. Do you think he and just about every other zerg out there are losing as some sort of grand scheme to hit Terran and Protoss with the nerf bat and small buffs applied to zerg and suddenly bust out the "real" playstyle in 6 months cackling madly "hahaha, we were overpowered the whole time!"? No. He and just about every zerg is having problems in this arena. It's so easy to get into a disadvantaged spot early game. What top Zerg hasn't expressed that they think zerg is disadvantaged? I can't think of any.
Sure, IdrA is a lot more vocal, or at least a lot more accessible to teh foreigner community, so everyone hears him and he has a ton of anti fans because he's vocal. That's fine, you don't have to like someone just because they're good at starcraft, however, don't be a mindless sheep who blindly disagrees because he's talking about how (*gasp*) zerg feels vulnerable in the early game. Access what he's trying to say, because he's not saying it for the fuck of it, he's saying it because that's what goes on. WHat I have a problem with is every race has trouble scouting not just zerg. At least zerg have ovie to get near edge of base and zergling to continously run up ramp to check what unit is at wall. Think about what toss and terran does to scout. Terran do have scan but it is extremely costly. It basically cost as much as blindly putting down 2 spine crawler. Protoss also has trouble scouting past its own ramp. Other than pool timing, toss sees nothing. Idra has only been saying zerg has trouble scouting. Why hasn't he addressed other races? Sentry is good at defense but if you rush early 1-2 sentry can't hold ramp indefintely especially if you hit before warpgate. Terrans also constantly fear baneling bust. I mean if you just look at progression of toss builds and zerg builds. People are adapting to less scouting info. At beginning of beta, toss basically went forge expand(not counting 2 gate zealots bullshit in close position) copied from broodwar in every game/every map, but toss players soon realized can't hold against many all ins of zerg and switched to a much less econ opening. Zerg has also been doing a lot more speedling openings instead of hatch first. The thing you can't just talk about giving zerg this and that. At this time, all race is doing a lot of guessing. If you give 1 race a lot more info then the others what will happen? I agree mechanically idra is a good player, but taking balance advice from a pro is never smart for obvious reasons. Yes, the infallible information given by a scan or observer is comparable to seeing the edges of someone elses base, totally >< The issue is zerg has no way to insure he's going to see what he needs to see because it's so easy to set 2-3 marines or sentry/stalker on the perimiter and deny the overlord. Sure, Terrans give up a mule for a scan (which doesn't cost money, it's an opportunity cost), and protoss give up some energy on their sentry or time on their robotics, but is absolutley going to work. If you scan, you get that info. if you make a hullucinated phoenix, it's fast enough to get in. If you make an observer, you're seeing in. Until overlord speed comes out, there's no way to be sure you can scout him, which means zergs have to guess weather a crazy all in is coming, and if they guess wrong it costs them the game. Anyway, I give up. People are just going to keep flaming IdrA because it's IdrA, and they're dead set that he's wrong and they obviously know more about this game than he possibly could ><. No reason reasoning with someone who won't listen to reason, I suppose. I swear, people complain more about IdrA complaining that IdrA actually complains.
You're biased, i'm biased and Idra is the most biased of all. There's no point in arguing cause people are getting tired of going in the same old circle.
Your posts do smell of bias towards zerg and Idra though. Losing a mule doesn't cost anything? It's like saying a missed larva inject doesn't cost you anything either, it's just a missed opportunity.
Also love your blog where you say that switching to protoss for a couple of matches against zerg made you feel like there's no way to lose. Sounds like biased bs to me as all protoss of any skill level need to play well to win against a good zerg.
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On May 07 2011 20:59 PinkSoviet wrote:Show nested quote +Yes, the infallible information given by a scan or observer is comparable to seeing the edges of someone elses base, totally How are they infaillible? Is spotted, an observer will see a lot less than an OV. A scan is the most "coin flip" of scouting methods. You can see his tech and army, his army, his tech, or jackshit. You cant miss EVERYTHING with an obs or an OV, since you can keep scouting until they are dead. And then, you see what kills them.
Well, versus a
zerg - scan gets on creep of the main or the natural (i.e the only place he can put his tech unless he lair rushed and proxied it with ovie creep, which is stupid), observer can get anywhere there isn't a spore (which is everywhere unless the zerg suspects stargate/DT) or, more likely, a hallucinated phoenix sees everything until you have a decent number of hydras, queens, or air up, all of which confirms what you're doing early game.
Terran - Scan gets his main where you're going to see what you need early game unless he proxies. Obs gets in you base unless you have a raven or a lot of turrets, raven tells you what he has anyway, once again, turrets are unlikely unless you're probably going for DT or stargate.
Protoss - scan gets you in his main or natural, so you're likely to get the information you wanted, again, unless he's proxying. Obs will get into his base unless he's dedicated robotics time to sniping your obs, which is probably not high on his priority list.
The bottom line is a scan will get you a lot of information. So will an obs or hallucinated phoenix. Sure, if an obs gets spotted, it dies pretty fast, but in early game where you really need information, what are the chances realistically that he's going to find it without lining his base with turrets/cannons early game when you really need to find out if he's cheesing or expanding? Sure he could be proxying something you didn't see, getting to see the majority of his base sure the hell is better than.."yep, he definitely has 3 marines and a supply depot over there". Also due to larvae mechanics, zerg gets to prepare for a push or drone, not both, which terran and protoss get to do, so even if you don't scout what's up, you've got a much better chance at surviving than a zerg who gets caught off guard.
I'm not trying to claim any sort of imbalance, just pointing out the fact that IdrA was completely correct in what he said, don't discount it just because he said it.
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I think the fact that NesTea made it to the final kind of proves IdrAs points. If you watch the games, NesTea has to play many times better than his opponent to even stand a chance of winning. The raw skill difference between scfOu and IMNesTea where huge still it was a close game. Should that be the way the game is ? That the level of skill required to play Zerg at a top level has to be so many levels above the skill level required to play Terran or Protoss ?
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On May 07 2011 21:23 Sqq wrote:
I think the fact that NesTea made it to the final kind of proves IdrAs points. If you watch the games, NesTea has to play many times better than his opponent to even stand a chance of winning. The raw skill difference between scfOu and IMNesTea where huge still it was a close game. Should that be the way the game is ? That the level of skill required to play Zerg at a top level has to be so many levels above the skill level required to play Terran or Protoss ?
A Zerg making it to the final proves that Zerg is underpowered? I guess you would say the same if a Zerg wouldn't had reached the final, so no matter what Idra is right.
Also how did you come to the conclusion that Nestea is much better than SC?
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On May 07 2011 21:13 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 20:54 Arisen wrote:On May 07 2011 19:55 xbankx wrote:On May 07 2011 19:40 Arisen wrote:
People just aren't willing to listen...
IdrA says: Zerg have a hard time scouting early game because of building walls and denying overlord scouting. Because Zerg doesn't have a build that defends against everything early game without leaving your economy behind, if he denies scouting and you guessed wrong, you are at a disadvantage because with those same building walls, you don't have a lot of agression potential if you overcompensate.
People Hear: Zerg is underpowered, Terran and Protoss are ridiculously overpowered and zerg will never ever win anything.
People respond: Nuh - Uh, that's not what Day[9] said! You're just whining! What possible experience could you have in this arena!?
Guess what? IdrA puts in more time into this game than just about anyone not living in Korea. He is insanely good. He has some of the best mechanics in the world. Do you think he and just about every other zerg out there are losing as some sort of grand scheme to hit Terran and Protoss with the nerf bat and small buffs applied to zerg and suddenly bust out the "real" playstyle in 6 months cackling madly "hahaha, we were overpowered the whole time!"? No. He and just about every zerg is having problems in this arena. It's so easy to get into a disadvantaged spot early game. What top Zerg hasn't expressed that they think zerg is disadvantaged? I can't think of any.
Sure, IdrA is a lot more vocal, or at least a lot more accessible to teh foreigner community, so everyone hears him and he has a ton of anti fans because he's vocal. That's fine, you don't have to like someone just because they're good at starcraft, however, don't be a mindless sheep who blindly disagrees because he's talking about how (*gasp*) zerg feels vulnerable in the early game. Access what he's trying to say, because he's not saying it for the fuck of it, he's saying it because that's what goes on. WHat I have a problem with is every race has trouble scouting not just zerg. At least zerg have ovie to get near edge of base and zergling to continously run up ramp to check what unit is at wall. Think about what toss and terran does to scout. Terran do have scan but it is extremely costly. It basically cost as much as blindly putting down 2 spine crawler. Protoss also has trouble scouting past its own ramp. Other than pool timing, toss sees nothing. Idra has only been saying zerg has trouble scouting. Why hasn't he addressed other races? Sentry is good at defense but if you rush early 1-2 sentry can't hold ramp indefintely especially if you hit before warpgate. Terrans also constantly fear baneling bust. I mean if you just look at progression of toss builds and zerg builds. People are adapting to less scouting info. At beginning of beta, toss basically went forge expand(not counting 2 gate zealots bullshit in close position) copied from broodwar in every game/every map, but toss players soon realized can't hold against many all ins of zerg and switched to a much less econ opening. Zerg has also been doing a lot more speedling openings instead of hatch first. The thing you can't just talk about giving zerg this and that. At this time, all race is doing a lot of guessing. If you give 1 race a lot more info then the others what will happen? I agree mechanically idra is a good player, but taking balance advice from a pro is never smart for obvious reasons. Yes, the infallible information given by a scan or observer is comparable to seeing the edges of someone elses base, totally >< The issue is zerg has no way to insure he's going to see what he needs to see because it's so easy to set 2-3 marines or sentry/stalker on the perimiter and deny the overlord. Sure, Terrans give up a mule for a scan (which doesn't cost money, it's an opportunity cost), and protoss give up some energy on their sentry or time on their robotics, but is absolutley going to work. If you scan, you get that info. if you make a hullucinated phoenix, it's fast enough to get in. If you make an observer, you're seeing in. Until overlord speed comes out, there's no way to be sure you can scout him, which means zergs have to guess weather a crazy all in is coming, and if they guess wrong it costs them the game. Anyway, I give up. People are just going to keep flaming IdrA because it's IdrA, and they're dead set that he's wrong and they obviously know more about this game than he possibly could ><. No reason reasoning with someone who won't listen to reason, I suppose. I swear, people complain more about IdrA complaining that IdrA actually complains. You're biased, i'm biased and Idra is the most biased of all. There's no point in arguing cause people are getting tired of going in the same old circle. Your posts do smell of bias towards zerg and Idra though. Losing a mule doesn't cost anything? It's like saying a missed larva inject doesn't cost you anything either, it's just a missed opportunity. Also love your blog where you say that switching to protoss for a couple of matches against zerg made you feel like there's no way to lose. Sounds like biased bs to me as all protoss of any skill level need to play well to win against a good zerg.
Oh wow, you're totally right, what right do I have to say that I played protoss for a while after watching a match where a 10 base zerg lost to a 3 base protoss and felt completely in control of those games versus zerg? This has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes I play zerg, and I get frustrated just like any other zerg, but it has no bearing on what's been brought up.
Yes, a scan is an oportunity cost. If a hypothetical terran has a build that can survive against 4 out of the possible 5 options an imaginary zerg has, and he needs to find out if he's doing it, will he burn a scan to find out if that imaginary zerg is going to do that option? You bet your ass, because he's going to lose if that build comes up. Is 1 mule worth your game life? Yes, it is. Now, magnify that, and you have zergs dillema minus the option to scan. You can perhaps defend against AB and C, but if D comes up you'll lose immediately and if he fast expands, you're way behind because you were preparing defense, so you're way behind in drones. That's what IdrA is talking about.
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On May 07 2011 21:23 Sqq wrote:
I think the fact that NesTea made it to the final kind of proves IdrAs points. If you watch the games, NesTea has to play many times better than his opponent to even stand a chance of winning. The raw skill difference between scfOu and IMNesTea where huge still it was a close game. Should that be the way the game is ? That the level of skill required to play Zerg at a top level has to be so many levels above the skill level required to play Terran or Protoss ?
Eh, I don't think it proves any point.
IdrA's argument is that Zergs are going to lose a lot of games because they have to flip a coin. That doesn't mean that Zergs can't win, it just means that a good Zerg player is much more likely to get eliminated in stupid ways.
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As a random player I would argue that scouting information is much more valuable for zerg players, because they can shift their army/worker ratio and army composition much faster than any other race. It is therefore only logical that it is more expensive/harder to get.
But I really am in no position to judge the overall state of the game 
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Most Zerg in Sc2 play Zerg not like Zerg in BW. They play Zerg like ... BW Terran. Guess what Idra was.
Actually i have this thought from InControl not from myself.
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EPT
