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On August 19 2010 15:31 EvasivE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 15:01 sadyque wrote:
As a terran player i support the repairing scvs change 100%. Ill just get 20 scvs auto repairing one another in front of my mech/bio ball and auto win all games woooohooooo.
Please stop asking for nerf this nerf that. Instead ask for buffs. Ask for some new , interesting , viable strategies to be opened for you. Nerfing everything you cant handle wont make the game better... are you fucking serious? you idiot terrans with your auto-pilot 60 apm 1 base down syndrome straight to midlevel diamond play need to be dealt with by forcing you to develop some micro. stop embarrassing yourself with your stupid terrible defensive techniques in saying " stop whining" "wtf i still lose so its balanced"....maybe you need to realize you arent even remotely talented.
Lol, if this doesn't get you banned, I don't know what does ^^
Maybe you can explain to me why the examples of micro I gave aren't actually micro, but "auto-pilot". And after that I'd love to hear how Zerg consists of pure micro. K thx.
On August 19 2010 15:34 Wr3k wrote:
I just lost about 24 lings to a thor surrounded by SCV's in a league game. Fucking ridiculous. As much as I love sitting there for 5 minutes watching a thor spin around in circles shooting my lings, this is just retarded. It wouldn't be as bad if the thor model didn't block view of all the SCV's, but this needs to be fixed. You can only click on the SCV's around the bottom half of the thor, and thats IF its arms aren't covering them.
Goody, I'm sure you have a replay for us ... right?
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if they AUTO-repair, then they should get AUTO-attacked
simplez :<
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i would love if scvs on autorepair were top priority. i'd love even more if there was no priority except the closest unit.
someone suggested you could make a wall of self repairing scvs to draw fire, but they'd die way too fast.
thor rush, BC rush and PF would still be juicy, just not as ridiculous. seriously, i've seen PFs take out entire T1/T2 armies.
whoever thinks the priority system does not need improvement is delusional.
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This really needs to be implemented! Or make it so they can´t be fully covered by a thor or a flying building or anything else T_T It´s really hard to target them anyway and if they are covered by something it´s nearly impossible.
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I would like to point out a flaw in the quote's theory. Repairing SCVs have limited mobility, due to... repairing. So if you would like the player to use more micro to lure the enemy away with puny repair tricks due to this new change in priorities, then so be it. It's for the better.
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The Thor + auto-repair scvs are rather imbalanced.
The noob T's will say "just manually target the scvs". But this isn't always working well because the Thor sprite is huge and the scv one is tiny. On top of that, with the whole 3d thing, if the scvs are at the top of the Thor, the Thor will shadow over the scvs' sprite. Furthermore, one race is just auto-repairing and 1a'ing while forcing the other race to micro more intensely while sustaining massive damage from the Thor.
It's so imbalanced I use a 2 Thor + marine rush in half of my TvZs haha.
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I think this would be a good change. Since once the scv repair they will be targeted.,this will make terran micro a tad more. Though, if the terran was good he would place an scv behind a thor or something then right click to repair a unit then his opponent entire army would chase it. XD, that would be pretty funny since you'll get pwn to the face.
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take wc3 system - if you surround target with units and you make them attack it, then those units, who cant reach the target wouldn't dance side by side like retards, but will attack the closest target to them they can reach, but new blizzard developers are too fucked up to use their own attack system, that worked well, instead they make new, that surrounds everything with a-move, thus this what should players do by themselves.
and for those, who think its a good idea to focus probes with lings - they can repair even themselves, so it wouldnt help that much...
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I am actually surprised by this thing. Has anyone ever played the brutal campaign? The brutal AI focus fire at repairing scv, medic, medivec and science vessel. I heard that the normal AI doesnt do that (never played normal thu). That means blizzards knows which way is better. Why did not they implement it in multiplayer?
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pretty sure attack ai is similar if not the same as in bw. it's just bw didnt have 400hp units and attacking command centers.
has anyone tried hold position micro? it work for barracks + scv + marine walls in bw. i'm hoping that just because a thor is firing at a unit that's on hold position the unit won't bug out and just sit there.
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I agree. Workers, if they are not on attack-move, are not given priority. Harass an SCV line and watch all your units bee line for that single zealot in the corner. If the worker attacks, they equal priority to the zealot.
So in the same way, auto-repair should be treated as attack-move and move the SCV up the threat list.
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On August 19 2010 17:01 mahnini wrote:
pretty sure attack ai is similar if not the same as in bw. it's just bw didnt have 400hp units and attacking command centers.
has anyone tried hold position micro? it work for barracks + scv + marine walls in bw. i'm hoping that just because a thor is firing at a unit that's on hold position the unit won't bug out and just sit there.
Pretty sure you are correct sir, it just wasn't as noticeable in BW for the reasons you stated. I think the correct solution would be diminishing returns on additional scvs repairing. It'd have to work so that the first scv repaired at the rate of 1 HP per second (arbitrary numbers, just an example), then the next scv contributed a rate of 1 HP for ever 1.2 seconds, then the 3rd scv repairing at 1 HP for every 1.4 second etc. Of course blizzard could balance those numbers however they see fit.
I like the idea of attackers prioritizing repairing scvs, the only problem is, I could see this causing some funky AI problems or possibly the opportunity for abusing the AI. What I mean by abusing the AI is; switching back and forth between repairing and not repairing to confuse the attacking units as to what to do.
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On August 19 2010 13:20 Jawaka wrote:
Or, you know, you could attack the SCVs manually.
Yeah, almost the first thought I had was that complaining about "autorepair being the opposite of micro" and then not microing himself kinda gives away the intention of the OP. If you want to kill SCVs then learn to target them, but putting them as #1 automatically is bad. That makes super fast all-in strategies with 2 Marines and 15 SCVs viable perhaps ... and thats boring.
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As a T player, I agree. It really is borderline OP. Making scvs the #1 priority doesn't make sense though. Units should just prioritize the closest threatening combat unit (with repairing scv added to that list).
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On August 19 2010 15:31 EvasivE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 15:01 sadyque wrote:
As a terran player i support the repairing scvs change 100%. Ill just get 20 scvs auto repairing one another in front of my mech/bio ball and auto win all games woooohooooo.
Please stop asking for nerf this nerf that. Instead ask for buffs. Ask for some new , interesting , viable strategies to be opened for you. Nerfing everything you cant handle wont make the game better... are you fucking serious? you idiot terrans with your auto-pilot 60 apm 1 base down syndrome straight to midlevel diamond play need to be dealt with by forcing you to develop some micro. stop embarrassing yourself with your stupid terrible defensive techniques in saying " stop whining" "wtf i still lose so its balanced"....maybe you need to realize you arent even remotely talented.
You dont get the point. I support any zerg buffs suggested. But this one is just wrong. There are so many ways terrans can abuse this change you wouldnt even believe. So stop wasting time "guessing" my level of micro and come up with some usefull changes...
Also learn to use the damn banelings... Go watch FruitSeller wtf pwn really good opponents in 10-12 minutes using baneling centric strategies. Yeah its lame and zerg needs variety...that doesnt mean we need to nerf all kinds of shit cuz you refuse to use banes.
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On August 19 2010 17:01 mahnini wrote:
pretty sure attack ai is similar if not the same as in bw. it's just bw didnt have 400hp units and attacking command centers.
has anyone tried hold position micro? it work for barracks + scv + marine walls in bw. i'm hoping that just because a thor is firing at a unit that's on hold position the unit won't bug out and just sit there.
To an extent it is the same. The problem lies with things like auto repair and the 3D engine making it impossible to target units. I'd like to see how SC2 plays out without any attack priority -- that is, units attack the closest unit unless attacked by another unit or manually directed to attack something. It'd force more micro, while removing tons of these imbalanced little quirks. They really detract from the enjoyment of the game.
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First they should remove auto repair, also blizzard should have 2 attack commands, A move and lets say S move(any unused key) the S move would just not have any priorities meaning units would attack anything close to them, while the A move does have the standard priorities set. I believe it would work pretty good and make one chose between A or S (using any key thinking of S because its next to a).
Probably never going to be implemented but anyways cheers
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I don't get why Blizzard put such priorities in the first place. I mean there should be no priorities at all so that you get to kill the nearest opponent. Everytime you put a priority in the AI of a unit, you take away control and stuff like this happens and can be exploited.
Shouldn't you naturally tell you units "Kill the closest enemy unless I tell you to specifically target someone", instead of "Kill this guy! Hydra: Screw you man there is a big badass Thor I need to kill first or some SCVs I need to kill first. I will get to that after I do this, even if I die and you lose because of me".
Its the same thing with Medivacs that are auto targeted and sometimes ignore the real Marine Marauders threat.......
Sigh...
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To those (Terrans) who are complaining it will dumb down the game, I am sure most will agree that keeping the AI this way is fine, if you in turn make things like Heal from Medivac, auto-repair and Concussive Shells manually cast. After all, that will make the game more micro and pro-friendly, right?
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Could not agree more. It's just frustrating and an advantage for terran that, imo, has no justification whatsoever. That's just how I look at it 
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EPT
