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On August 05 2010 07:22 Saracen wrote:
Why does Zerg need an air caster? What role would that fill? A lurker would fill the defensive turtle/stall unit role. A scourge would fill the cheap anti-drop/anti-massive air unit role (including anti-colossus), and could effectively replace the corruptor while giving the Zerg more options. What would an air caster do? It's silly to say Zerg needs an air caster without elaborating on the spells.
Virtually any role, including a defensive/stall role. The aesthetic and thematic elements of a race are probably equally considered by blizzard when designing new units.
On August 05 2010 07:24 R0YAL wrote:
Zerg has Overseers which have Contaminate, the most underused skill in the game. They dont need another caster but maybe an additional spell that would encourage people to get a few more overseers for more than just detection.
Contaminate is powerful, but it serves primarily as a utility skill with no combat usage.
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On August 05 2010 07:29 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 07:22 Saracen wrote:
Why does Zerg need an air caster? What role would that fill? A lurker would fill the defensive turtle/stall unit role. A scourge would fill the cheap anti-drop/anti-massive air unit role (including anti-colossus), and could effectively replace the corruptor while giving the Zerg more options. What would an air caster do? It's silly to say Zerg needs an air caster without elaborating on the spells. Virtually any role, including a defensive/stall role. The aesthetic and thematic elements of a race are probably equally considered by blizzard when designing new units.
That's fine, but simply saying "Zerg needs an air caster" doesn't really mean anything. Cool, I've got this guy flying around that casts spells. So what? What would this air caster do? How would it help out the race? That's something OP does with the units he's suggesting, but simply saying "Zerg air caster" doesn't address.
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The theory is fair enough, but it'd be just a joke to add those two units back into the game. Then we'd have basically a BW remake with 3D and a few new units, as far as Zerg is concerned.
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On August 05 2010 07:40 a11 wrote:
The theory is fair enough, but it'd be just a joke to add those two units back into the game. Then we'd have basically a BW remake with 3D and a few new units, as far as Zerg is concerned.
Then give us two new units to replace them, at least  I don't think corruptor and baneling cut it, because there are still many things the lurker/scourge could do that the corruptor and baneling can't.
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On August 05 2010 07:40 a11 wrote:
The theory is fair enough, but it'd be just a joke to add those two units back into the game. Then we'd have basically a BW remake with 3D and a few new units, as far as Zerg is concerned.
This is true to an extent. Theres plenty of new units already and Zerg in general work totally different than they did in BW.
Rename them, reskin them, idc... Conceptually, Lurkers and Scourge just fill the roles Zerg needs so well...
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I am not against adding new units, but I really don't want zerg to go back to playing the exact same way they did in BW.
Besides, neither of those units fixes the tvz problems. Zerg is generally at a huge disadvantage pre lair tech, meaning they still have very few options to deal with the crazy number of harass/timing push options terran has even with those units.
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What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text.
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On August 05 2010 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text.
Why the hell would you warn or temp ban the OP?
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On the Overseer, or an evolution of the Queen:
Hmm.. maybe a ground aoe spell that increases HP regen while on creep?
Just throwing ideas out there.. it'll make use of the Queen's Spawn Creep Tumor, and it isn't complete forced synergy with the Queen's spell because Hatcheries (Lair and Hive as well) generate creep around it too; it'd make Zerg units last a tiny bit longer while defending.
Or maybe a variation of the BW Queen's Spawn Broodlings ability.. that doesn't work on Massive units. You'd be able to chip away at their Tank count, or harass their worker line like that.
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On August 05 2010 08:02 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text. Why the hell would you warn or temp ban the OP?
The balance claims without argumentation, the fact that the EXACT SAME THREAD (add back the bw zerg units!) has been made multiple times weekly since the beta started, the headache formatting, the simple wrongness (no gas heavy units).
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lurker were not needed in 3tier because of mass detection
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On August 05 2010 08:09 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 08:02 Saracen wrote:On August 05 2010 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text. Why the hell would you warn or temp ban the OP? The balance claims without argumentation, the fact that the EXACT SAME THREAD (add back the bw zerg units!) has been made multiple times weekly since the beta started, the headache formatting, the simple wrongness (no gas heavy units).
Yeah except what the OP says is true, and he makes some good points. Zerg is lacking something to fill the roles the lack of the lurker and scourge leave. I agree that maybe he could offer alternate units rather than just "put the lurker and scourge back in and rebalance accordingly." But it definitely doesn't deserve a warning, much less a ban.
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Not all the races have to have a unit fulfilling every type of tactical role. They are ment to play and think very differently. I think the lurker would just be a undesirable clone of colosos and tank ranged/splash style.
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I'd like to see a long range ground unit for the Zerg... Maybe an upgrade at Hive tech that allows Infestor's to morph into Reaver-like units(they already look the part), sort of like how after High Templars use their energy, they morph into Archons.
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I still say that they need to just tweak a few of the existing units such as the Overseer. Give changlings the ability to "detonate" on command, and rename them to "Jihadlings". Done. Simple.
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On August 05 2010 08:12 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 08:09 UniversalSnip wrote:On August 05 2010 08:02 Saracen wrote:On August 05 2010 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text. Why the hell would you warn or temp ban the OP? The balance claims without argumentation, the fact that the EXACT SAME THREAD (add back the bw zerg units!) has been made multiple times weekly since the beta started, the headache formatting, the simple wrongness (no gas heavy units). Yeah except what the OP says is true, and he makes some good points. Zerg is lacking something to fill the roles the lack of the lurker and scourge leave. I agree that maybe he could offer alternate units rather than just "put the lurker and scourge back in and rebalance accordingly." But it definitely doesn't deserve a warning, much less a ban.
Agree to disagree... I don't think the post adds anything new, or is well thought out, or well written, or well researched.
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On August 05 2010 09:15 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 08:12 Saracen wrote:On August 05 2010 08:09 UniversalSnip wrote:On August 05 2010 08:02 Saracen wrote:On August 05 2010 07:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
What I'm taking away from this thread is that if I put absolutely no effort into the OP but just vomit my thoughts out, I'm not gonna get warned or temp banned as long as the result is an intimidating block of text. Why the hell would you warn or temp ban the OP? The balance claims without argumentation, the fact that the EXACT SAME THREAD (add back the bw zerg units!) has been made multiple times weekly since the beta started, the headache formatting, the simple wrongness (no gas heavy units). Yeah except what the OP says is true, and he makes some good points. Zerg is lacking something to fill the roles the lack of the lurker and scourge leave. I agree that maybe he could offer alternate units rather than just "put the lurker and scourge back in and rebalance accordingly." But it definitely doesn't deserve a warning, much less a ban. Agree to disagree... I don't think the post adds anything new, or is well thought out, or well written, or well researched.
ok... WHY?
no point in posting solely to criticize...
Why are these bad ideas? What do you suggest instead?
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The lurker was a great unit. I cannot say if it is the unit that would solve zerg problems, but clearly the current installation of zerg is very lackluster.
Being a "reactionary" race is bullshit. And moreover, due to their incapability of putting pressure early on, there is very little room for the zerg play to evolve. Everyone is saying, "give it time, things will change". Well, they will, as in T and P will figure out new ways to break the zerg in the early game.
Not much can Zerg become, if their early and mid game are dictated solely by the play of their oponent.
Lurkers are a step in the right direction, but I feel its not enough.
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On August 05 2010 07:22 Saracen wrote:
Why does Zerg need an air caster? What role would that fill? A lurker would fill the defensive turtle/stall unit role. A scourge would fill the cheap anti-drop/anti-massive air unit role (including anti-colossus), and could effectively replace the corruptor while giving the Zerg more options. What would an air caster do? It's silly to say Zerg needs an air caster without elaborating on the spells.
Sounds like the expression: "When all you have is a hammer all problems look like nails" is appropriate.
You're approaching these problems from a SC1 standpoint, instead of SC2.
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Theory crafting can be fun, I'll play.
Derpling
Permanently burrowed, cannot leave the creep.
Consumes 1 unit, dragging it under the creep where it slowly dies.
If you kill the Derpling you can have your unit back but he will have PTSD for the rest of his life and never trust soft ground again.
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EPT
