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On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works.
Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE.
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I switched to Z from T a few days ago :D
Edit: It's very hard T_T
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On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE.
If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable.
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On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable.
ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win.
I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails.
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On August 06 2010 03:43 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable. ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win. I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails.
The early game is where terran really have the advantage. I feel much more comfortable once I get to mid / late, simply because I have a lot more tech options to answer whatever they're producing. I never feel like I'm flipping a coin, but then, I also scout pretty fanatically.
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Honestly, I feel like switching races.. not because zvt is hard, but because
zvz=trash
and zerg is just overall... boring...
i liked sc1 zerg a lot more, but i dont know how to play any other race in sc2 so its hard to switch lol
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On August 06 2010 04:02 Mobius wrote:
Honestly, I feel like switching races.. not because zvt is hard, but because
zvz=trash
and zerg is just overall... boring...
i liked sc1 zerg a lot more, but i dont know how to play any other race in sc2 so its hard to switch lol
r u for rela? winning ZvT as Z is amazing. Burrowed roaches unburrowing right in the middle of his tank clump, overlords flying over his ball dropping banelikngs while moving, and hydralisks flanking from two sides.
You're flanking him from: Left, up, right, down :D when you manage to pull it off you have to admit it feels fucking good.
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I actually don't have too much problems playing against Terran.
Speedling ->Infestors -> Ultras
or Speedling -> Mutas -> Banelings -> Ultras
or Speedling -> Roach (If they are going for a thor/hellion push) -> Infestor -> Ultras
Flanking/surrounding and engaging on open territory is crucial for victory.
Also Hydras, like in BW, are horrible against Terran.
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On August 06 2010 04:02 Mobius wrote:
Honestly, I feel like switching races.. not because zvt is hard, but because
zvz=trash
and zerg is just overall... boring...
Switched for the same reason. Zerg units just feel boring in comparison to terran or protoss units. Infestors are cool, Mutas need a second base, because they're so gas heavy and everything else ..... zzz ZZZ zzz
Since i switched to terran i am having a blast playing SC2.
As zerg the early game was all about surviving and playing passiv, but as terran i can be the aggressor. 4 marine + 1 hellion harass or reaper harass or banshee harass... so many options.
The 111 build is just so flexible and the whole terran gameplay feels more dynamic.
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On August 05 2010 02:39 ckw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 02:38 Deathstar wrote:
Considering that Blizzard only goes by statistics, I'm going under the assumption that Terran is owning at the moment. If they are owning in an obvious fashion, I'm bracing for a Zerg buff. So for now, I'm still playing as Zerg because I dedicated too much time with them. I believe that Terran owns in the West but on Asia server it's Zerg that owns so...
Welcome to phase 1!
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On August 06 2010 03:43 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable. ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win. I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails.
While the first part is exaggerated, the second part really occurs often.
I've played this one terran 4 times on the ladder since release. He is decently ranked and we've gone 2-2. I remember playing him in a long macro game and crushing him so hard. I was thinking how ridiculous it is that I lost to someone who doesn't even know how to play a mid-late game macro tvz.
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I switched to random. Because i figured i could atleast learn all the races at a somewhat decent level before i decided upon what to main. It was a hard transition but it is paying off now that i have alot more insight into what protoss and terran are capable of.
If you feel zerg is a letdown, its always nice to be able to play the other races.
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On August 06 2010 04:37 kNyTTyM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:43 Shiladie wrote:On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable. ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win. I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails. While the first part is exaggerated, the second part really occurs often. I've played this one terran 4 times on the ladder since release. He is decently ranked and we've gone 2-2. I remember playing him in a long macro game and crushing him so hard. I was thinking how ridiculous it is that I lost to someone who doesn't even know how to play a mid-late game macro tvz.
yes it's exagerated, but it's what the early game is beginning to feel like with all of the different strats the terran can do.
I just played a terran in 300+ diamond who, after getting his reapers scouted, still hopped them up into my base, where I had speedlings waiting. the rest of the game was him floundering with a few marines + tanks while I mopped up with ultra-ling + nydus. It was like playing a silver player, but because of the number of wins he probably gets with his fast reapers, he's mid to high diamond...
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On August 05 2010 23:04 SpaceYeti wrote:
To be honest, I think ZvZ is more of a reason to stop playing Zerg than ZvT.
i agree with you so much it isn't even funny.
also, i agree with the guy who said he couldn't play a race without mutalisks 
btw zergs don't dominate in asia, terrans do
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On August 06 2010 04:56 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 04:37 kNyTTyM wrote:On August 06 2010 03:43 Shiladie wrote:On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable. ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win. I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails. While the first part is exaggerated, the second part really occurs often. I've played this one terran 4 times on the ladder since release. He is decently ranked and we've gone 2-2. I remember playing him in a long macro game and crushing him so hard. I was thinking how ridiculous it is that I lost to someone who doesn't even know how to play a mid-late game macro tvz. yes it's exagerated, but it's what the early game is beginning to feel like with all of the different strats the terran can do. I just played a terran in 300+ diamond who, after getting his reapers scouted, still hopped them up into my base, where I had speedlings waiting. the rest of the game was him floundering with a few marines + tanks while I mopped up with ultra-ling + nydus. It was like playing a silver player, but because of the number of wins he probably gets with his fast reapers, he's mid to high diamond...
It's kind of like back on iccup when those protoss players would always dt drop, bulldog, or something else dumb. They don't really know how to play once it goes past there initial aggression and the terran doesn't know how to fend all these off. So mid-high diamond is comparable to D/D+ in terms of how much zerg is able to defend
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I start practising T , i can win been semi afk
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I'm really considering switching. I've put so much effort into zerg though it's hard to want to, especially since I can't smurf a 2nd account or anything.
Even if objectively the races are balanced the fact that Terran and Protoss get 100 chances while Zerg are pretty much in do-or-die mode the entire game wears down your mental endurance pretty quickly.
And that's before the fact that maps seemingly can be divided up into balanced or anti-zerg.
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I don't think complaining about balance issues is constructive, but I definitely see where Zerg players are coming from. Ive been trying to learn on ladder for the past few days and it is probably one of the hardest things ive ever done in Starcraft 2. Keeping up with spawn larva, creep spread, overlords, on top of regular macro was intense. Not to mention Zerg unit production is way more complicated than that of Terran or Protoss. I believe that played well, Zerg is a powerful race that can compete on an even level with the other two races, but Zerg has an incredibly high skill cap.
Ive got nothing but respect for high level Zerg players at this point.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 06 2010 03:43 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:30 Sieziggy wrote:On August 06 2010 02:26 LF9 wrote:On August 05 2010 02:49 oxxo wrote:
>< Even if TvZ is unbalanced... it's nowhere NEAR what all the Zs are whining about. Seriously. SC2 Z players are insane. Everything they have is UP and everything T (and in the past P) have is OP.
Try teching. It works. Dude, don't even post if you don't know what you're talking about. You obviously are some low level player who hasn't played Zerg and has 0 knowledge of the matchup. At a high level, ZvT is UNPLAYABLE. If you think zerg is unplayable then you're not as great as you think either. ZvT needs some help, but it's not unbeatable.
ZvT is like flipping a coin 5 times in a row, and the zerg needs it to come up 5 heads in a row to win, while the terran just needs to get 1 tail to win.I've played a lot of very bad terrans that are diamond level, simply because they don't know how to adapt once their 80% chance of winning in the first 5 minutes fails.
I could swear that I saw the exact same analogy used in relation to BW PvZ, before Forge-FE builds became the norm.
Not saying that there isn't some imbalance this time around, but it's interesting how quickly we've reached this stage in SC2 compared to SC1.
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...
rant inc...
ZERG is fucking BROKEN.
WHERE'S MY DEFENCE?
Hydras die faster than fucking flies
lings die faster than fucking flies
roaches die faster than fucking flies
spines get outranged and therefore die like fucking flies to tanks or void rays
banelings die before they reach their target
mutas die faster than fucking flies
WHERE'S MY SCOUTING?
oh yeah so if i scout out a 4 gate that's all i've got, he's gonna keep shitloads of stalkers around his base so overlord scouting is IMPOSSIBLE. so i prepare for a 4 gate push, what comes? oh that's right, 2 void rays that charge up on a overlord before KILLING EVERY UNIT OR BUILDING in my main, so okay fine then i'll hide a hydra den in my nat? yay it works out i clean out the void rays.
and now i've got HALF of his freaking GINORMOUS stalker zealot A move army. so i'll just pump out shitloads of roaches an... oh right my main is gone and i'm relying on one oversaturated mineral line and 2 geysers, so fine i'll just mass speedlings, of course i can't cause getting enough lings to beat anything but lonely zealots is impossible since
lings die faster than fucking flies
so during the fight all my lings die before reaching the target (this with upgraded armor)
my roaches gets eaten up by zealots
my hydras gets eaten up by stalkers with simple blink micro and focus fire.
so now i don't have a army, but still got those trustworthy spines back in my base, well of course they don't do shit cause they cause NO DAMAGE AT ALL.
so okay i'll learn from my mistake and just go fast lair into hydras right?
of course that'll work,
except for the fact that you'll be behind in economy the first 20 minutes of the game.
well at least i'm not getting void rushed anymore, oh look shiny blobs in the air, just make an overseer, oh look there's shitloads of them and they've trapped all of my drones, well good bye natural economy i at least cleaned it up. or did i? cause now i'm not only behind the first 20, but behind the first 30 minutes. so of course the toss puts up shitloads of expos saturated faster than a zerg could ever dream of saturating. so now he's got shitloads of ground units, okay i've got a okay composition of units to deal with it and i'll add a few mutas to snipe out any reinforcement that might come in the fight.
oh hold on more shiny blobs? of course, make 5 overseers they're all taken out, good bye my expo.
okay no more mistakes, lets put up permanet anti cloak then? oh hold on those 50 stalkers blinks up takes everything out and those blobs go ahead and rape my whole main. gg i guess. at least i held off your first army, to bad you have 50 warpgates that gives you your army back in mere seconds. sweet.
oh yay finally not a protoss, terran! :D fair fights at last!
oh hold on he's double racksing, should definitely put some pressure down with roaches, oh hold on two reactors is all you need to pump out shitloads of really cheap and extremely strong units that rip your roaches to pieces in a few shots, sweet. guess i'll build on my economy then. OH HOLD ON he's got tanks out now and is siege shooting my nat, what should i do about that, okay get my lings ready and my roaches and go! oh shit they just got all blown up to pieces, why?
lings die faster than fucking flies
roaches die faster than fucking flies
ah well i'll just get muta... oh right he's got shitloads of marines, and mutas die faster than fucking flies so that might be a problem. not even an idea.
so just make a few banelings and tech to burrow, those mine fields are sweet.
BAM almost all of his marines are gone! oh hold on a second that reactor made it possible for him to make an equal amount of marines to barely a cost at all. oh well just make more banelings.
get some infestors out, yeah fungal growth KICKS ASS! best caster in the game TBH.
oh hold on they die by two siege tank fires before they could reach casting range, that's to bad. lets make shitloads of speedlings and a few hydras and banelings to clean the rest up. oh look, he's gotten 8 tanks out at this moment and is perfectly capable of killing your 80 zerglings army and your 30 hydras with banelings.
to bad, GG i guess?
i met that marine,tank combo and won, why? oh no not because i overwhelmed his army with pure macro and good micro.
I WON CAUSE HE WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO UNSIEGE ALL OF HIS TANKS AT ONCE meaning i could clean it up with speedlings and banelings with a few hydras. (the cost being 3 times that of the terran army and still losing loads of units.)
it has been like this ever since i started going up against platinum players and top golds and that kind of players who knows what they're doing.
the only time i can win against protoss is if he does not 4 gate and do some stupid shit like early robo or quick colossi which is just plain retarded from that player. 4 gate with void rays, put down a dark templar tower if you want too and BAM you've got yourself a force that can't be stopped by zerg. void rays will clean up even two and at times even three queens if they're fully charged. and since the protoss has the economic edge he can put up two stargates and boost the shit out of it, having 4 void rays in NO time. ready to annihilate the zerg unless they go for quick hydra, but then they'll be behind SO far in economy due to needing gas for their ridiculous effectiveness to cost rate.
where's my map control? a few stalkers or hellions is enough to clean up ANY kind of speedling map control. roach map control is a waste cause as fast as he sees you those die easy as shit roaches will die easy as shit to any marine or stalker army the enemy currently sits on.
and it's not like i haven't tried to do better things against it. i've heard brood lords is good for stopping mech and marine armies, however all he has to do is unsiege and get away from there, do i want to kill him? i'll go attack, making my brood lords easy to pick off by marines. should i wait? then he'll have 500 vikings out in a minute or so.
where are the useful zerglings we had in SC1? SC2 ZERGLINGS ARE SHIT, all they're good for is sacrificing by running up and down the enemy ramp and not getting any useful scouting out of it at all.
where are our freaking T1 anti air?! WHY do we have to rely on the soft and EXTREMELY crappy queen to defend 4 void rays? that's not enough even if you link all hatches together to get the queens there to kill the void rays directly. they'll kill and flee.
where are those extremely good pressure and harass mutalisks? these days those fly-swat-cannons and fly-swat-turrets picks off mutalisks like nothings happened. and even if you manage to take those out with minor loses those marines/stalkers are still so incredibly strong that you won't have a fucking chance against them.
and where is the scourge that guarded and hunted down any offensive flying the enemy tries to use on us? oh no we can't have that, we have to have the ground ones that's full of shit and are fucking useless unless the enemy ONLY has marines.
and last but not least, why do the lurker receive such hate? they were GREAT for anything to offensive containing, defending certain positions and used in combat to trap the enemy forces. but oh no "they overlap with those useless piece of shit banelings that won't do shit to your enemy unless they're complete retards  ~blizzard"
if you don't want to read this rant i'll cut it down for you.
Zerg are broken, there is NO WAY we should have to RELY on the enemy making STUPID mistakes for us to win.
I give up, i don't give a shit about it anymore, if blizzard hates zerg enough to force me to switch races due to their stupid balance ideas then sure, i give up.
brb respeccing terran.
p.s inb4 post telling me i'm a noob and needs to l2p cause obviously that's what's wrong since pro's like idra wins everything xOOO
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EPT
