|
On August 05 2010 06:18 tehemperorer wrote:
It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Losing to Terran as Zerg doesn't mean the matchup is imba, it means that as a community, Zerg players still haven't caught on to strong ways to deal with Terran. That's my belief; it is more rewarding to try and think of a clever way to beat T than to complain about the difficulty of it.
You are wrong IMO. What you are saying are true at the highest level of skill most foreigners will never be able to reach. What is bugging me so much about the poor design of Starcraft 2 is that at any level but top diamond the Zerg are not skilled enough to beat a similar skilled terran, or protoss.
The issue is not as big as if there were imbalances at the pro level, but it will water down the game if at any level below top diamond there are glaring imbalances that skew up the player statistics. Any noob that start playing Zerg in Starcraft 2 will instead of just quit hopefully play protoss instead, but they could quit aswell.
In Starcraft 1 there were these imbalances at D level for Terran players versus Protoss. Protoss was so much easier to play than Terran that at that level we had total roflstomping. In SC2 this has been taken to the extreme, but instead of Terran being the hard race compared to Protoss at lower levels, Zerg are now ridiculously hard compared to the Protoss (that is even easier than in SC1) that it almost feels like two different games playing Z instead of P.
EDIT: Again as I am reading through your post, I must make it plain why this is a problem:
In SC1 the small imbalances Terran had a lower levels were just a spice to the game, but in SC2 it has gone too far. The Zerg shouldn't need to be at triple the APM and always walking the thin line between dying, scouting, flanking, and expanding vs the other two races that at that level doesn't even have to scout, but just build a wall, make 2 collossi with some stalkers, control group on "1" and then just sit by and watch. Actually, IMO Terran are not as bad as Protoss, since some of the harder mechanics of SC1 Terran are still in this game.
|
i still play zerg cause i like them, they're kinda boring and needs changes to become as good as the other races.
i'm still finding myself playing EVEN matches against opponents who prove themselves to be A LOT worse than me. seriously, meeting 20 APM terrans who masses tanks thors and bioballs and just BARELY winning is kinda annoying.
i could switch to protoss, i actually play them quite good and with some practice i could be just as good with them as with the zerg, i've thought about it a lot of times. and to be honest, if blizzard does not fix the state that zerg are in right now, i'll surely be looking at a future switch to the toss.
|
I'm finding zvt a lot of fun these days. Better than the days of terran being allowed to make marauders and maraders only or I mass roach or roach/baneling and kill you.
Remember when jinro went like pure mech and got owned by mass baneling roach just because they're both really really good for 1 supply?
Not to say tanks aren't a real bitch to deal with though >_<
|
I play zerg still, but only really enjoy ZvP
ZvZ is a total crapfest, and ZvT I just baneling bust every game and hope for the best...
I've tried to play vs T straight up and been completely demolished over and over by different retarded strats that can't be reliably scouted correctly...
Pushes with one type, or a combo of 2-3 types all at different times, where if you magicly prepare for it correctly you have a balanced fight, but if you don't have the EXACT right combo of units to fight him off, or you mismicro once with the correct units, then you get overrun. All while if you decimate his forces, you are still not even in the lead, just keeping par and made the game go on a little longer...
|
I actually Switched to Zerg from Terran cause of their being so many terrans.
|
I'm not playing zerg until ZvZ is fixed and roaches are buffed.
ZvZ is horrible and has been for a long time. ZvP is ok maybe favoring zerg since protoss is still favoring colossus based play. As I've said many times, Protoss needs to start going immortal templar to contest an ultralisk transition.
ZvT is pretty meh still. Maybe introducing a completely new map pool will help but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. I've actually been doing better in this matchup making slight alterations in my opening build.
I'll be abusing terran for a while
|
The reason I think that non-top-tier zerg are having such a massively hard time with other players of their skill level playing other races is because our macro mechanic is so unforgiving, while the other races have a LARGE buffer where they can forget about it and come back to it without falling behind.
If it is expected for balance that a zerg player spawns larva EVERY time it's up, then the top level zergs will be on par, but every other zerg will always be behind. While if its balanced that you don't need to keep up 100% with spawn larva to be on par with other races, then zergs at the top tier will start steamrolling again, like they were for a while on the korean server in beta.
The solution is the either make the zerg macro mechanic more forgiving, which I am against, as it removes a major part of the 'easy to learn hard to master' gameplay. Instead I think they should make the protoss and terran macro mechanics equally unforgiving. Put a CD on mule, and some other kind of limiter on chronoboost will instead give every race this dynamic instead of just zerg.
|
On August 05 2010 07:38 Shiladie wrote:
The reason I think that non-top-tier zerg are having such a massively hard time with other players of their skill level playing other races is because our macro mechanic is so unforgiving, while the other races have a LARGE buffer where they can forget about it and come back to it without falling behind.
If it is expected for balance that a zerg player spawns larva EVERY time it's up, then the top level zergs will be on par, but every other zerg will always be behind. While if its balanced that you don't need to keep up 100% with spawn larva to be on par with other races, then zergs at the top tier will start steamrolling again, like they were for a while on the korean server in beta.
The solution is the either make the zerg macro mechanic more forgiving, which I am against, as it removes a major part of the 'easy to learn hard to master' gameplay. Instead I think they should make the protoss and terran macro mechanics equally unforgiving. Put a CD on mule, and some other kind of limiter on chronoboost will instead give every race this dynamic instead of just zerg.
Also, there's an incredibly steep learning curve in ZvT where Terran has many options for 1 base builds and not only does the Zerg have to properly scout him on time (pre-place overlords/lings and all that jazz), but has to know exactly how to respond to what he sees as well. I can imagine it'd be really frustrating for a lower level Zerg player to learn all of this.
By the way Dave, what happened to CPL.
|
Zerg through think and thin! 
|
I haven't switched, and I still win about 80% of my vT games. I will say however that I don't let it get to late game, and if I do, I've tried to keep him at one base the entire time.
Late game: T is imba.
Early/mid: Z is imba.
Zerglings and banelings are your friends. And early/mid game nydus is beyond powerful.
I wish I could pull some testament from my T opponents. Nydus doesn't have to be all in. There are a lot of natural transistions, as long as you've given yourself a 20-24 drone economy with your one base nydus. (this goes for FE protoss as well.
As Haypro said, stay on one base as long as you can. The reason for this is T is *very* mobile early/mid game (hellions/reapers/drop rush/thor drop/banshee rush), while without creep, you aren't. To fight this, staying one base with aggression keeps your mobility at it's maximum. If you'd like some 500 diamond replays of this, pm me.
|
On August 05 2010 07:40 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 07:38 Shiladie wrote:
The reason I think that non-top-tier zerg are having such a massively hard time with other players of their skill level playing other races is because our macro mechanic is so unforgiving, while the other races have a LARGE buffer where they can forget about it and come back to it without falling behind.
If it is expected for balance that a zerg player spawns larva EVERY time it's up, then the top level zergs will be on par, but every other zerg will always be behind. While if its balanced that you don't need to keep up 100% with spawn larva to be on par with other races, then zergs at the top tier will start steamrolling again, like they were for a while on the korean server in beta.
The solution is the either make the zerg macro mechanic more forgiving, which I am against, as it removes a major part of the 'easy to learn hard to master' gameplay. Instead I think they should make the protoss and terran macro mechanics equally unforgiving. Put a CD on mule, and some other kind of limiter on chronoboost will instead give every race this dynamic instead of just zerg. Also, there's an incredibly steep learning curve in ZvT where Terran has many options for 1 base builds and not only does the Zerg have to properly scout him on time (pre-place overlords/lings and all that jazz), but has to know exactly how to respond to what he sees as well. I can imagine it'd be really frustrating for a lower level Zerg player to learn all of this. By the way Dave, what happened to CPL.
I completely agree, the rediculous number of things the terran can do that give an auto-win if not scouted perfectly, and prepared for equally perfectly is just retarded. I'm at the cusp of needing to know it all and how to prepare correctly for all of the options, and when you look at all of the different build varients that can be told apart only by seconds of timing, and can be swapped for little to no cost if they clear out your scout (very easy to do)
Example being if you prep for helions, but end up facing anything but helion, you lose, and it's the same for pretty much all of the terran openers right now.
And sorry about the CPL, I got caught up a fucktonne with work and beta (I sent a PM I believe)
|
I currently play terran and have done since the start of beta. If I palyed as zerg I deffinately wouldn't switch because I like being the underdog. The best satisfaction in a game comes from winning as the underdog in my opinion.
Alot of you will probably say "well why dont you switch to zerg". I dont like the fact that terran is considered OP but I play terran because thats the race I picked and wanted to play at the start and at the time they were the underdogs. I'm not the best player by a long shot but its taken me the whole of beta to get to where I am now with terran and dont really want to learn a new race just yet. At the end of the day If things are really that bad then blizzard will do smoething about it. Best to stick with what you know.
|
I switched to terran, because I wanted to play them in bw, but didn't have the mechanics for them, so I was zerg, because I dislike playing as protoss.
|
Staying strong with zerg, yes i have dabbled in the few odd games as the other races but i just do not know them well enough to play strongly, i really like the zerg macro component and the race as a whole, a few more useable units would be a nice addition though
|
I think the dominance of Zerg we see on Asian servers is either A. Asian Terrans not playing Terran as well as NA/EU Terrans or B. NA/EU Zergs do not play as well as Asian Zergs. Potentially it is a combination of both variables that generates the trend we see now. I played Zerg early on in the Beta and switched over to Protoss, not because of a perceived imbalance by anyone race but rather that I simply found my ability to play Protoss was more competent than Zerg.
|
On August 05 2010 08:04 SichuanPanda wrote:
I think the dominance of Zerg we see on Asian servers is either A. Asian Terrans not playing Terran as well as NA/EU Terrans or B. NA/EU Zergs do not play as well as Asian Zergs. Potentially it is a combination of both variables that generates the trend we see now. I played Zerg early on in the Beta and switched over to Protoss, not because of a perceived imbalance by anyone race but rather that I simply found my ability to play Protoss was more competent than Zerg.
There is no dominance of Zerg on the Asian servers. Not since patch 12, at least.
|
I switched but it didn't have anything to do with imbalance, I just realized that all my favorite things from sc1 like lurkers, dark swarm and mutas had been replaced by obnoxious and un-fun things like queens, roaches and... well, mutas are still there but they're no longer fun somehow
|
i still play zerg since imo they are the easiest to macro.
|
I like terran so if I would change it wouldn't because their are op, they are just fun to play.
But no I haven't change yet at least. Zerg is fun
|
On August 05 2010 08:05 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 08:04 SichuanPanda wrote:
I think the dominance of Zerg we see on Asian servers is either A. Asian Terrans not playing Terran as well as NA/EU Terrans or B. NA/EU Zergs do not play as well as Asian Zergs. Potentially it is a combination of both variables that generates the trend we see now. I played Zerg early on in the Beta and switched over to Protoss, not because of a perceived imbalance by anyone race but rather that I simply found my ability to play Protoss was more competent than Zerg. There is no dominance of Zerg on the Asian servers. Not since patch 12, at least.
I think what he's referenceing is what I mentioned in my post, where on the asian server in early beta zergs were just killing everyone, while on NA and EU it was balanced. This was before zerg got nerfed into the ground though. The reason for the split of asian zergs doing so well compared to other areas though, is because koreans focus on the mechanics and repitition, which the zerg spawn larva machanic is perfect for. So they mastered this mechanic before any other areas really did. So blizzard nerfed zerg, so now if you havn't mastered the mechanic you just get rolled over by terrans who can throw down 3 mules at a time with no loss of total income.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
