TvZ Balance Suggestions - Page 23

On August 03 2010 23:13 MythicalMage wrote:
According to a thread on TL, four mutas can barely beat a thor with good micro.

On August 03 2010 23:00 trevf wrote:


It's like the wealthy saying, 'We need more tax cuts'. Everyone else can see the fact that they already got their cheese but they keep crying for more cheddar.

Just say no to TvZ IMBA.

On August 03 2010 23:03 floor exercise wrote:
Almost every terran unit has obscene range.

Why do marauders have better range than marines? They are the armored infantry, designed to, I would think, be infront of marines to absorb hits since they have precisely 10 billion health. yet they out range marines and sit in the back while tons of marines can soak up damage.

Siege tanks have 13 range. It is so ridiculously hard to attack into these things. Thors and vikings have obscene air range too, just nonsensically far range. I don't understand why every terran unit should be allowed to hit things across the map.

I would honestly lower every one of their ranges by 1 and see what happens. Terran would likely still be better than the other races.

On August 03 2010 23:15 Roggay wrote:
I like some of those suggestions, the most being the bunker revision. I definitly think that terrans should have a risk to bunker rush (ie blocking the zerg natural), 50% return seems a good solution. Thors could have their AA range reduced without making them useless.

But, I think that marauders shouldnt an ability that doesnt work all the time and is kinda hard to predict. I would prefer something like reduce the slow (in effect or duration) or to deny marauders stim. I don't have any problem with medivacs as they are auto-targetted and kinda expensive to get.

I don't like the suggestions about the supply depot. I understand that supply depots is this kind of easy-wall tool and never-in-the-way building, but in sc2 the other race have similar tools too. Protoss were given the warpgate and zerg the extendable creep with speed bonus. I don't have huge problem with the depot as it is, maybe a little cast time (1 or 2sec) or a cooldown (you can't lift up/down all the time) would be fine tough.

I understand that the mule is a powerfull and forgiving tool, if you forget it you just have to call many of them and you still don't lose (close to) anything. But I don't like the suggestion, don't know how to explain it.

In the end, I think the better change would be to change the map pool. The main factor why TvZ isnt as balanced as it could is because of the maps. I really would like to see a change in that, but I guess I'm gonna wait a while before blizzard decide to change all the map or to take some of the community.

On August 03 2010 23:20 cuppatea wrote:
The last tournament Idra competed in was the IEM qualifyer on Sunday, where he was 2-0'd by Silver (a Canadian Terran). Just because a full time pro gamer who gets paid to spend 10 hours a day practicing wins the odd tournament doesn't mean Zerg is doing well right now.

On August 03 2010 23:17 floor exercise wrote:

Only so far as maurader is the last of the "unholy trinity" to not either be exposed as a balanced/negligible unit (immortal) or get nerfed into fucking oblivion (roach)

I don't know what ramifications lowering marauder range would have on pvt. In certain situations especially with force field I can see stalkers outranging marauders as a really bad thing, but overall, a range difference of one isn't something you can exploit to perfection, even with stalkers being as fast as they are compared to unstimmed marauders netcode alone says you will still get hit and land concussive shell. You'd probably still lose to them cost for cost

On August 03 2010 23:16 psion wrote:

That sounds reasonable, but it's actually more like the wealthy, who have extensive knowledge and understanding of the financial situation, explaining why there should be tax cuts. They're wealthy because of that knowledge and understanding.

On August 03 2010 23:23 MythicalMage wrote:

Except that the Immortal shouldn't really be in the "trinity" It should be the stalker, and the marauder did have the shells nerf.

On August 03 2010 23:21 MythicalMage wrote:

Is there a replay/VoD. I'm curious how the games went.

On August 03 2010 23:29 floor exercise wrote:


It got nerfed to 100/100 then to 50/50. The shells "nerf" was minuscule for an ability that in its current state doesn't even really belong in the game. The unholy trinity is roach, immortal, marauder. It's not a new term, in early beta these units were the new units (with stalker being a rework of dragoon mainly) that were typically regarded as game-ruining as the way people played at that point focused almost entirely around them.

Immortal build time was nerfed slightly, marauder had concussive shells and roach got nerfed every patch until they were the garbage unit they are now

On August 03 2010 23:29 floor exercise wrote:


It got nerfed to 100/100 then to 50/50. The shells "nerf" was minuscule for an ability that in its current state doesn't even really belong in the game. The unholy trinity is roach, immortal, marauder. It's not a new term, in early beta these units were the new units (with stalker being a rework of dragoon mainly) that were typically regarded as game-ruining as the way people played at that point focused almost entirely around them.

Immortal build time was nerfed slightly, marauder had concussive shells and roach got nerfed every patch until they were the garbage unit they are now

On August 03 2010 23:42 Velr wrote:
No one is saying the 0.1 Roach should come back, but the Roach now is just *nothing*.

On August 03 2010 23:44 MythicalMage wrote:

It's the tank of the army. It plays much the same way as the marauder now, only without adding bonuses to armored.

On August 03 2010 23:45 floor exercise wrote:
Yes. It got over nerfed, but that doesn't mean it was balanced originally. it got hp nerf, armor nerf, regen nerf, burrowed speed nerf, and then after all that it got its supply doubled without getting any of that other shit back. And it was never better than the marauder to begin with

On August 03 2010 23:48 Velr wrote:


And not slowing your enemies, and not being stimmed, and not being Healed by Medivacs while fighting and doing way less damage and not being bonused against anything.

Yes, they clearly do exactly the smae things...