EPTInvitationals, Invite Onlys and Reservations... - Page 12
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 13 2010 08:50 Baum wrote: I agree strongly with the notion of this thread and in fact I have thought about opening one like this as well. The problem as I see it is that right now maybe not most of the tournaments are invitationals but the most important ones are. What qualifies a tournament as being "the most important"? The ones with the largest prize pools? Those prize pools are provided by sponsors, who likely sponsor those tournaments BECAUSE they have big names in them. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
 So, JMS and I both had some extra money and we wanted it to go into eSports. We both loved Starcraft 2 and so we decided to team up and start a tournament. We had seen a lot of the great US and EU players, but knowledge of the Asian scene was limited to the 17173 SC2 WC and Tester in the Altitude Invitational. So we decided upon doing a global tournament, hence the Global Gamers Invitational name. Next step was deciding upon a format and we decided that in order to make a name for our tournament we would have to invite some great players. No-one would care about an unknown open tournament by two unknown people in the community. But then again, we were also hoping to give some no-name players a chance to prove themselves and so we invited 12 players and kept the remaining 4 spots open for qualifiers. The qualifiers kept growing until we had 128 people, which in retrospect ofcourse is a lot for only 4 spots. But we weren't planning on excluding any players that might be the next TLO (so to speak). The main purpose for new TO's like us is to make a name for ourselves and our tournament. If we had kept an all open tournament all the invited players probably wouldn't have participated, meaning our tournament would have created little buzz and would have died silently because no sponsor cares about tournaments that don't have huge buzz/ viewercounts. You have to realise that most tournaments aren't organised on behalf of the player, they are organised to give the viewers some spectacle. Viewers simply like seeing players that they know and most of these players have deserved it. The 12 invited players are all highly skilled SC2 players and I think all of them have a shot at winning. None of them got invited purely because they are a familiar face, they got invited because we think they are the best and will provide some epic matches. That said, when our tournament runs smoothly and gets good viewercounts it will be MUCH easier for us to 1. get sponsors 2. get players 3. organise more of an open tournament. It's not just the players that have to get known before they can get things done Seriously Paramore, the entire oGs team is playing in the qualifiers and we all know that at least half of them have a good chance at winning the whole thing. Even though they weren't seeded they said "ok" and are starting from step 1, just like you. If you manage to beat Cool in the Ro16 of the qualifiers, or even if you take 1 game off him, people will remember that and say "hmmm, he's pretty good, we should invite him for a showmatch". All our matches, even the qualifiers, are being commentated and distributed so you have a good chance of proving yourself. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On July 13 2010 09:16 Saechiis wrote: Well I guess I'll explain for my part how the Global Gamers Invitational became how it is today. Please note that it's the GGI, the GGI2 hasn't been announced yet So, JMS and I both had some extra money and we wanted it to go into eSports. We both loved Starcraft 2 and so we decided to team up and start a tournament. We had seen a lot of the great US and EU players, but knowledge of the Asian scene was limited to the 17173 SC2 WC and Tester in the Altitude Invitational. So we decided upon doing a global tournament, hence the Global Gamers Invitational name. Next step was deciding upon a format and we decided that in order to make a name for our tournament we would have to invite some great players. No-one would care about an unknown open tournament by two unknown people in the community. But then again, we were also hoping to give some no-name players a chance to prove themselves and so we invited 12 players and kept the remaining 4 spots open for qualifiers. The qualifiers kept growing until we had 128 people, which in retrospect ofcourse is a lot for only 4 spots. But we weren't planning on excluding any players that might be the next TLO (so to speak). The main purpose for new TO's like us is to make a name for ourselves and our tournament. If we had kept an all open tournament all the invited players probably wouldn't have participated, meaning our tournament would have created little buzz and would have died silently because no sponsor cares about tournaments that don't have huge buzz/ viewercounts. You have to realise that most tournaments aren't organised on behalf of the player, they are organised to give the viewers some spectacle. Viewers simply like seeing players that they know and most of these players have deserved it. The 12 invited players are all highly skilled SC2 players and I think all of them have a shot at winning. None of them got invited purely because they are a familiar face, they got invited because we think they are the best and will provide some epic matches. That said, when our tournament runs smoothly and gets good viewercounts it will be MUCH easier for us to 1. get sponsors 2. get players 3. organise more of an open tournament. It's not just the players that have to get known before they can get things done Seriously Paramore, the entire oGs team is playing in the qualifiers and we all know that at least half of them have a good chance at winning the whole thing. Even though they weren't seeded they said "ok" and are starting from step 1, just like you. If you manage to beat Cool in the Ro16 of the qualifiers, or even if you take 1 game off him, people will remember that and say "hmmm, he's pretty good, we should invite him for a showmatch". All our matches, even the qualifiers, are being commentated and distributed so you have a good chance of proving yourself. Thanks, responses like these are seriously the ones I was looking for... I didn't have such an in depth history about why GGI was created or what the purpose of it was. It is a great tournament and sorry I had to use it as an example for my thread. My point was not that this tournament was poorly organized or that the players selected were poor choices, I merely wished that there were more tournaments of your size that were open to the public. I'm really glad you did leave 4 spots open to the public since that is better than nothing. Thank you again. | ||
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TalkSick
Bulgaria223 Posts
The proposition is that what you are describing in the OP works very much like recruitment works in real life. I will, just like you, give an example with myself. Here is how your post looks literally translated into a RL situation from my perspective. REVELATION to PARAMORE. I hold a Bachelor degree in Communication from a Dutch University and I want to get a job in Brussels. I believe that I am a very good graduate with high potential, appropriate qualification and I have the papers, scores and even academic awards to show for it. There are a lot of "open" positions in Brussels because, well, it is the heart of the European Union. For every starting graduate-oriented position in my field there are at least 300 to 400 candidates from across the EU. All of them have their potential, their dreams, their aspirations and their level of qualification and experience, but less than a dozen get an invite for an interview - the other 390 or so do not even get a generic rejection by e-mail. Much like a tournament organizer in SC2, the employer looks at the past accomplishments of a given individual - in EU's case that is represented by a CV. If someone has a "better" past, the employer will choose to invite that person to an interview. I might be equally qualified and knowledgeable or even better, but the employer wouldn't know, and more importantly would not want to take the risk with me. He only needs 10 guys with a solid CV and does not give a toss about the other hundreds upon hundreds of people. Sometimes, there will be 50 guys with a solid CV, or maybe even 200, but he only needs 10 and he would bet on the very, very best 10. If you are that eleventh person, you will be no more than the other 390. So there you have it - this is your Ro16 Invitational. Can you imagine a job interview with 256 participants? I, much like you, blame it on elitism, discrimination, unfairness, my shitty Eastern-European passport and a range of other outrageous factors that probably no one at the employment-offering company has even thought about. What is funny about this situation, is that the moment I get employed in Brussels and the moment you receive an invitation to a SC2 tournament, all these doubts, anger and general uneasy feeling in your testicles will magically disappear. The conclusion is: this is just how the world works - in games, sports, career, whatever you can think of. The people "above" you will always choose the "better" and more importantly "proven to be better" candidate. You would say - OMG, WHEN!? THIS IS SO UNFAIR, I AM READY FOR THIS, BABY! The answer is: No one can tell when. But it is important to keep being ready for it (being good, being qualified for it), and keep trying to secure your place under the sun (keep participating) while never forgetting that there are many, MANY others just like you. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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TalkSick
Bulgaria223 Posts
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USn
United States376 Posts
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
On July 13 2010 09:15 TheYango wrote: What qualifies a tournament as being "the most important"? The ones with the largest prize pools? Those prize pools are provided by sponsors, who likely sponsor those tournaments BECAUSE they have big names in them. Haven't I said so in my post? I guess you just read those first 3 lines. Anyway the most important tournaments are the ones which have big prize pools and draw a lot attention. If you noticed the viewer counts of HDH and look at the money at stake it's easy to say it was one of the most important tournaments from the point of view of a player, a sponsor and a fan. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Best example I can think of is HuK. I remember when he was whining on the HDH tourney thread about not being invited (he was being rather bitchy at one point too x]) but what did he do? He just basically went out and won so many tournaments until he made his name. People who are invited and known are often thus because they have and achieve consistent results and will very likely give the viewers a good game. This is what it's all about. Sponsors want views. They want that more than anything. The best way to achieve that is to attract big name players. It's how it works in pretty much everything in life, not just SC2. Sports sponsorships and other celebrity sponsorships work off the same concept. Why do you think Lebron James has such big name sponsors while some random NFL lineman doesn't? Because that's where the money is. Most tournaments have prize pools because sponsors give 'em money for it. To ensure their sponsors are happy, they need views and to get that, they invite. Even tourneys like the postponed MicroMacro2 tournament, which had less of a "qualifier" round, still ensure that big names will be seen using a heavily weighted seeding system. You're right though, it'd be nice to not have so many invitations as the norm. This way we can discover new talent and new faces. However, it's unavoidable to a large extent. | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On July 13 2010 03:23 Paramore wrote: Sure... once in a while, by well known stakeholders is completely understandable and great. Who wouldn't want to see a soccer match with the best of the best stacked against each other on each team? However, the recent trend for tournaments posted on the Team Liquid SC2 Tournament forum is completely ridiculous. Almost every tournament that I have participated in so far, has a degree of 'invitational' in it. I do understand, however, that its a free world out there, and if you had enough money and wanted to make a tournament exclusively for pro-scene and only wanted to exclusively watch those players play, nothing is stopping you. However, it shouldn't be a trend that the rest of the community should follow, because thats not how competition is born. I read up to here and I know your pretty stupid. What the rest of the community does is out of the control of the person who made the tournament. Honestly this argument takes top10 in dumbest sc2 arguments ever ..... | ||
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Spidermonkey
United States251 Posts
On July 13 2010 09:49 virgozero wrote: I read up to here and I know your pretty stupid. What the rest of the community does is out of the control of the person who made the tournament. Honestly this argument takes top10 in dumbest sc2 arguments ever ..... You sound like someone I would want to know IRL. Can we be E-friends? :D | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On July 13 2010 09:40 USn wrote: I love how biased the poll at the start of this thread is. There's no middle road option, which is obviously what everyone wants. Actually theres no extreme road as in "zero invitationals" ... theres no middle road between more invitationals and less invitationals... | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On July 13 2010 07:38 Chill wrote: Name one competitive game or sport that has the same players always at the top. Edit: Not one player, but 16 of the same at the top for 6 months. table tennis. | ||
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USn
United States376 Posts
On July 13 2010 11:21 Paramore wrote: Actually theres no extreme road as in "zero invitationals" ... theres no middle road between more invitationals and less invitationals... Your poll isn't more invitationals vs less invitationals. | ||
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
Major League Eating. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Antimage
Canada1293 Posts
A proven way to keep interest going in that climate was to invite well known players to play in their tournament, and to a lesser extent, to invite well-known casters to cast them. Compared to phase 1, yes there are more invitationals. That definitely won't be the case on release, I think. Craftcup, Gosucoaching, Zotac, among some others I forgot about at the moment are not invitational and present good chances for rising players to prove themselves. I don't think it's a cause of concern that in particular, in these last weeks of beta, there are many invitationals. It's just the way the timing worked out, and that's the way tournament organizers are maintaining interest in their events. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
Assume that a person or a person representing an corporation interested in sponsoring a tournament. How would you avoid the invitational trap? Assume that the corporation will assign some well known personality, how do you avoid ANY invites? How do you convince that sponsor that an inviteless tournament would bring greater returns than an invitational? Would a tournament that assigns brackets to various weekly open tournaments be better? How do you go about ensuring the greatest return for a sponsor in terms of immediate impact, ease of organization, time expenditure rather than a invite only or partial invite tournament. Can it be justified beyond fairness in E-Sport? As a representative of a potential sponsor, those are questions I will like to get answered, and I don't see it in this thread. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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