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On June 29 2010 16:33 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 07:36 KiWiKaKi wrote:
lol what about naniwa , demuslim , lucifron , me , huk , cauthonluck , axslav , strifecro. Saying that bw players will be better is pure bullshit Its pointless arguing with D+ bw players, they dont understand wc3 because they never played it. Its pretty clear BW and WC3 are even right now in SC2.. I would even give the edge to WC3, because outside of DIMAGA and White-Ra, WC3 players are dominating every tournament (like Kiwikaki's players mentioned, then the koreans) But whatever, let the kids think what they want. Its just funny that they look at this one game like its an accurate representation of BW vs WC3.. when Grubby has played less than 200 games of SC2 in his life vs's Garimto's like 2000+ I bet. Grubby is still playing WC3 in all the major tourneys, making more money than Garimto has probably made in his lifetime on BW.. He isnt putting 10 hours a day into SC2 yet, but if he does and tries his best, you can guarantee Grubby will be top 10 in the world for the first 3-4 years. Easily the best foreigner by far, especially.
This is wrong. The advantage goes to SC. ONLY because of the Koreans like Tester, though (imo)
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On June 29 2010 16:33 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 07:36 KiWiKaKi wrote:
lol what about naniwa , demuslim , lucifron , me , huk , cauthonluck , axslav , strifecro. Saying that bw players will be better is pure bullshit Its pointless arguing with D+ bw players, they dont understand wc3 because they never played it. Its pretty clear BW and WC3 are even right now in SC2.. I would even give the edge to WC3, because outside of DIMAGA and White-Ra, WC3 players are dominating every tournament (like Kiwikaki's players mentioned, then the koreans) But whatever, let the kids think what they want. Its just funny that they look at this one game like its an accurate representation of BW vs WC3.. when Grubby has played less than 200 games of SC2 in his life vs's Garimto's like 2000+ I bet. Grubby is still playing WC3 in all the major tourneys, making more money than Garimto has probably made in his lifetime on BW.. He isnt putting 10 hours a day into SC2 yet, but if he does and tries his best, you can guarantee Grubby will be top 10 in the world for the first 3-4 years. Easily the best foreigner by far, especially.
Im not so sure if your optimism about grubby becoming the "best foreigner" but the fact that garimto vs grubby was completly pointless because of training is obvious. Now you can't just expect player who didn't follow the wc3 scene to understand that the king of the orc is an extremely good player and that he can without doubt enter the top sphere of foreigner e-sport.
Now, I think it's really time for grubby to switch game since wc3 (and sc for that matter) pro-scene is dying, hopefully he will be able to do it quickly enough and start representing us, warcraft 3 player.
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pretty pointless to argue with people that think bw players have superhuman powers
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You're pretty ignorant man. I think its common knowledge that top level BW players will without a doubt have an easier time to get adapted to the gameplay and mechanics SC2 has to offer. I don't want to argue about this because there really isn't any point you can make to make me think otherwise. Have a nice day
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i hope wc3 players do well but they are difinately not in the top. i dont think any won a tourney yet
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yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2
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This is a funny thread, considering almost everyone arguing here is nobodies, except KiWiKaKi. Accomplished Warcraft 3 player's view > random scrub iccup D broodwar view.
I have to say though, I've followed Warcraft 3 and Broodwar closely since they came out. I pray we see Moon vs Flash and Grubby vs Jaedong! It will be great seeing awesome players from both games compete.
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On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2
You really don't get it.
You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced?
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Those games were surprisingly interesting, SC2 is really easy to pick up especially for a good player like Grubby. but ye, obviously this is not proving anything aside from the fact that practice does good to your gameplay
overall i feel BW players do have a slight edge over WC3 players, this is still starcraft after all.
people like Sen are a great argument for this, he is obviously extremely dominant. but WC3 players do pretty well, too, well most of em...
but the macro oriented starcraft, the (imo) FAR greater variety in gamestyles and builds (like in Broodwar) and the concept of not focussing on the units all the time can be pretty hard for WC3 players to accustom to. so yes, with time the difference will dwindle and disappear, probably.
then again take my words with a grain of salt, because i am a freaking terrible at starcraft, much to my own disgust, and my WC3 skills are pretty damn good - considering i played only like 14 games TOTAL lol (the fun part is: got a good, positive W/L record xD thanks to a friend's coaching and the hardcore boot camp that is broodwar).
SB
Edit:
You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced?
^also this, not saying WC3 players cannot train and compete but I believe that BW is on a whole other level and I am pretty sure BW pros will pull ahead rapidly because, well, they are USED to the drill and well disciplined I am sure, also they got a good idea of how to organize their training and of course they got the mechanics and a lot of gamesense that still apply
Fanboy has spoken
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On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced?
WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this.
I been around. I was around when XDS~Grrr... was competing, I remember when DS-Testie used to talk shit in clan X17. I remember when Boxer SCV rushed Yell0w. I remember when Marn used to be on top of the FFA ladder. Or when Grubby was smurfing under the name APM70Maphacks. It hurts me to see Broodwar players and WC3 players fight, I love both games!
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On June 28 2010 07:18 NuKedUFirst wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 03:29 ShivaN wrote:On June 28 2010 03:10 Knutzi wrote:+ Show Spoiler + saw the first game and really, grubby played horrible so i doubt he has played any sc2 at all yet because i know he is so much better than that iirc Grubby said in an interview recently that he's only played maybe 150 or so games of SC2, so yea, he's definitely not top tier yet. Lol exactly.. Idk why they picked him for the show match? I mean seriously..They could have picked ANYBODY to play it maybe the result wouldn't be 2-0. I mean seriously.. for a Korean Starcraft event they pick some Wc3 player that has barely played the game..No offense to gruby but still.. Korea has a lot more to pick from then a Wc3 player..
THEY HAVE SEN! WHY DIDN'T SEN PLAY!!! T.T
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8748 Posts
On July 02 2010 05:38 fyyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced? WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this.
While the international WC3 scene is certainly respectable, it's dwarfed by the Korean SC scene nonetheless. KiWiKaKi was limiting his comment to who played which game while maybenexttime expanded the discussion to the competitive scenes of the games, not just the games themselves. And now you're arguing that they're comparable and pre-emptively shaming anyone who tries to argue otherwise. There's nothing shameful, illogical, or disrespectful in pointing out that SC:BW's competitive scene is way beyond every other scene, particularly WC3's.
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On July 02 2010 05:49 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 05:38 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced? WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this. While the international WC3 scene is certainly respectable, it's dwarfed by the Korean SC scene nonetheless. KiWiKaKi was limiting his comment to who played which game while maybenexttime expanded the discussion to the competitive scenes of the games, not just the games themselves. And now you're arguing that they're comparable and pre-emptively shaming anyone who tries to argue otherwise. There's nothing shameful, illogical, or disrespectful in pointing out that SC:BW's competitive scene is way beyond every other scene, particularly WC3's.
Ofcourse the Korean SC scene is on a different level, I don't think anyone doubting that. SC in Korea is on a whole different level than the SC scene of the rest of the world. That's why there's always "He's the best in the world out of Korea" type phrases. But no one should say WC3 and SC players aren't equal at the pro gaming American/Europe level. The only thing pro gamers of WC3 have to adapt to is non-hero mechanic and larger macro mechanics, they have the competition and meta game experience in their mind already, which is 99% of the battle. No doubt top WC3 and top SC players will compete, people make it sound like top SC players are going to make top WC3 players go extinct, they will blend in just perfectly.
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On July 02 2010 06:10 fyyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 05:49 Liquid`NonY wrote:On July 02 2010 05:38 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced? WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this. While the international WC3 scene is certainly respectable, it's dwarfed by the Korean SC scene nonetheless. KiWiKaKi was limiting his comment to who played which game while maybenexttime expanded the discussion to the competitive scenes of the games, not just the games themselves. And now you're arguing that they're comparable and pre-emptively shaming anyone who tries to argue otherwise. There's nothing shameful, illogical, or disrespectful in pointing out that SC:BW's competitive scene is way beyond every other scene, particularly WC3's. Ofcourse the Korean SC scene is on a different level, I don't think anyone doubting that. SC in Korea is on a whole different level than the SC scene of the rest of the world. That's why there's always "He's the best in the world out of Korea" type phrases. But no one should say WC3 and SC players aren't equal at the pro gaming American/Europe level. The only thing pro gamers of WC3 have to adapt to is non-hero mechanic and larger macro mechanics, they have the competition and meta game experience in their mind already, which is 99% of the battle. No doubt top WC3 and top SC players will compete, people make it sound like top SC players are going to make top WC3 players go extinct, they will blend in just perfectly.
What great WC3 players were great SC players?
Transition between the games isn't easy at all.
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Woah whats up with nonys new icon, just to show that he's the recent TSL champion? Looks pretty sick 
Will JF get a razer TSL icon aswell?
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On July 02 2010 06:18 Zeller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 06:10 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:49 Liquid`NonY wrote:On July 02 2010 05:38 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced? WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this. While the international WC3 scene is certainly respectable, it's dwarfed by the Korean SC scene nonetheless. KiWiKaKi was limiting his comment to who played which game while maybenexttime expanded the discussion to the competitive scenes of the games, not just the games themselves. And now you're arguing that they're comparable and pre-emptively shaming anyone who tries to argue otherwise. There's nothing shameful, illogical, or disrespectful in pointing out that SC:BW's competitive scene is way beyond every other scene, particularly WC3's. Ofcourse the Korean SC scene is on a different level, I don't think anyone doubting that. SC in Korea is on a whole different level than the SC scene of the rest of the world. That's why there's always "He's the best in the world out of Korea" type phrases. But no one should say WC3 and SC players aren't equal at the pro gaming American/Europe level. The only thing pro gamers of WC3 have to adapt to is non-hero mechanic and larger macro mechanics, they have the competition and meta game experience in their mind already, which is 99% of the battle. No doubt top WC3 and top SC players will compete, people make it sound like top SC players are going to make top WC3 players go extinct, they will blend in just perfectly. What great WC3 players were great SC players? Transition between the games isn't easy at all.
I'm not sure that's the right question to ask. I can't answer it, or the reverse. I remember MaDFroG used to play Starcraft at a national competitive level before going to WC3 but that's all I can remember. The fact that the ladders before beta went down were a mix of top WC3 and top SC players I think is proof the adaptation is alot easier than you think. The meta game is the same in everyones mind.
This is like defending brownies because chocolate cake doesn't like it.
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On June 28 2010 03:14 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 03:10 Knutzi wrote:+ Show Spoiler + saw the first game and really, grubby played horrible so i doubt he has played any sc2 at all yet because i know he is so much better than that Grubby has plaid a bit of Starcraft 2 but he is still a full-time War3 player. I hope that he will realize his foolishness before it's too late, there's really no future for Wc3 at this point.
Yes, but grubby believes there's a future in Wc3. I've read several of his interviews and he really believes in it, so you should give him credit for doing what he loves and what he believes in. I really hope there is a future in Wc3, and that it goes in the direction that he wants it to. You may never know - SC2 might bring life to e-sports in general and give a boost to other games like Wc3. All in all, I hope things work out for Grubby no matter what he chooses to do.
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On July 02 2010 06:31 fyyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 06:18 Zeller wrote:On July 02 2010 06:10 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:49 Liquid`NonY wrote:On July 02 2010 05:38 fyyer wrote:On July 02 2010 05:28 maybenexttime wrote:On July 02 2010 05:22 KiWiKaKi wrote:
yea man we got it , anyone who doesnt play bw are idiots and cant compete in sc2 You really don't get it. You do realize that the BW scene in Korea is FAR more competitive than anything WC3 has ever produced? WC3 in China is insane. WC3 in Korea was going strong until the rigged map scandal broke. The fact of the matter is Blizzard birthed RTS pro gaming in 2 games, some people chose one, some people chose the other. There is insane APM in WC3, and insane APM in SC. There is awesome plays in WC3 and in SC. This stupid argument is "East vs West" type of argument, it's petty and stupid, why can't everyone just be happy that the Blizzard gaming community is coming together and fans of both get to see their favorite players from each compete. Only someone who isn't a true fan of Blizzard and WC3/SC would argue this. While the international WC3 scene is certainly respectable, it's dwarfed by the Korean SC scene nonetheless. KiWiKaKi was limiting his comment to who played which game while maybenexttime expanded the discussion to the competitive scenes of the games, not just the games themselves. And now you're arguing that they're comparable and pre-emptively shaming anyone who tries to argue otherwise. There's nothing shameful, illogical, or disrespectful in pointing out that SC:BW's competitive scene is way beyond every other scene, particularly WC3's. Ofcourse the Korean SC scene is on a different level, I don't think anyone doubting that. SC in Korea is on a whole different level than the SC scene of the rest of the world. That's why there's always "He's the best in the world out of Korea" type phrases. But no one should say WC3 and SC players aren't equal at the pro gaming American/Europe level. The only thing pro gamers of WC3 have to adapt to is non-hero mechanic and larger macro mechanics, they have the competition and meta game experience in their mind already, which is 99% of the battle. No doubt top WC3 and top SC players will compete, people make it sound like top SC players are going to make top WC3 players go extinct, they will blend in just perfectly. What great WC3 players were great SC players? Transition between the games isn't easy at all. I'm not sure that's the right question to ask. I can't answer it, or the reverse. I remember MaDFroG used to play Starcraft at a national competitive level before going to WC3 but that's all I can remember. The fact that the ladders before beta went down were a mix of top WC3 and top SC players I think is proof the adaptation is alot easier than you think. The meta game is the same in everyones mind. This is like defending brownies because chocolate cake doesn't like it.
I ah i see your just saying WC3 players will do just fine in SC2, not necessarily be "good" SC2 players. Although I'm sure some will.
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On June 29 2010 14:14 nihoh wrote:
The games were poor; however no matter what, Grubby _will_ be a force to be reckoned with in SC2. It's just a matter of practice and time.
Dunno man, he was quite horrible at SC:BW!
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On June 29 2010 16:33 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2010 07:36 KiWiKaKi wrote:
lol what about naniwa , demuslim , lucifron , me , huk , cauthonluck , axslav , strifecro. Saying that bw players will be better is pure bullshit Its pointless arguing with D+ bw players, they dont understand wc3 because they never played it. Its pretty clear BW and WC3 are even right now in SC2.. I would even give the edge to WC3, because outside of DIMAGA and White-Ra, WC3 players are dominating every tournament (like Kiwikaki's players mentioned, then the koreans) But whatever, let the kids think what they want. Its just funny that they look at this one game like its an accurate representation of BW vs WC3.. when Grubby has played less than 200 games of SC2 in his life vs's Garimto's like 2000+ I bet. Grubby is still playing WC3 in all the major tourneys, making more money than Garimto has probably made in his lifetime on BW.. He isnt putting 10 hours a day into SC2 yet, but if he does and tries his best, you can guarantee Grubby will be top 10 in the world for the first 3-4 years. Easily the best foreigner by far, especially.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Invitational_Tournaments
I am trying hard to see which large tournaments WC3 players are dominating in but I just cannot seem to find them. Can you help me out? The only WC3 player I see in this list is Lucifron.
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EPT
