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On June 04 2010 09:02 SirNeb wrote:
not sure about the siege tanks nerf, was it really a problem?
Due to the improved firing rate of tanks in siege mode, critical mass for annihilating enemy units was made at about 6 tanks. Coupled with maurauders and marines WITH medivacs tanking dmg at the front, it made for a ridiculously powerful ball to break when you cannot flank. Only success I had against this was with burrowed roaches sniping the tanks OR Broodlords which was a ridiculously expensive tech switch.
Edi: mild success with zerglings WHEN i can flank, otherwise the marauders/marines and tanks eat them up
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A 10 dmg nerf isn't significant? Jesus Zerg players in SC2 are a bunch of whiners...won't be happy until zerglings do 999 dmg to all
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On June 04 2010 13:55 Bosko wrote:
Tanks in siege mode = immortal dmg, anyone else thing thats f'ing retarded? Yea, Zerg needed some help vs. Mech, but now tanks are even more worthless vs toss.
Yep.
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It appears that all the whining about Mech has led Blizzard to nerf it.... Pity, I don't like this.
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On June 04 2010 13:17 NeoScout wrote:
Tanks in sc1 did so much damage and they were fine, I mean common they are siege tanks! from 75 to 50,, it's a joke
This game is Starcraft II. Terran didn't have the Thor back then to annihilate Mutalisks. Thor+Tanks were too powerfull and required no-skill from the Terran, let's hope this little nerf helps. (tanks still 1 shot or 2-shot Zerg units you know ?)
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I don't like any of these nerfs, at all.
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What I think would be good is some sort of either like anti armor gun or machine gun that they could set up. Be an upgrade, and slow them down tremendously, but maybe fgive armor/health/dps? I'm not sure. Or let them 'morph' into a unit.
um... there are the marauders as a Anti Armor unit and the Marine as a machine gun unit.
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I am so disgusted in the tank nerf, because now tanks will just suck vs protoss now. Also the damage is not the issue its the rate of fire of the tanks god!!!!!!!!!
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i cant a-move into a ball of siege tanks.. they must be overpowered
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I would have preferred to have the rate of fire down rather then damage, which would make them more like BW tanks.
And btw, there IS one Zerg unit that needs 1 extra shot from a tank to die ... yes that's right, Ultras got a ninja-buff woo hoo.
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like seigetanks were barely buffed in the beta, and in the start everyone was like OMG never make them...now everyone makes them and suddenly they are overpowred.. just goes to show that this game is a work in progress and a lot of stuff isnt thought of already..
ppl should play more instead of just watching streams and complaining about imba :>
that being said, I dont realy know how to feel about the hellionnerf.. I sure didnt think they r overpowred 
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No one did lol. Hellions never hurt nobody no how. D:
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People bringing up that tanks in SC1 didn't smart fire ect, forget that tanks are 1 extra supply, and 25 extra gas in SC2. Do you guys who don't play Terran realize how much of an impact that is? 50 damage would be fine if you take 1 supply away, or maybe 25 gas. I don't understand Blizzards nerf everything attitude, why not make an actual useful addition to Zergs abilities rather than nerf Terran to be worse against Protoss in the process.
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overall I see this as a good patch, i am currently a diamond zerg player rank 3 and 90% of my loses were due to terran mech build going into mid-late game. Multiple times when i figured that i had a excellent flank with burrowed/OL drop roaches and ling/hydra/infestor for support nearby i would still lose cause tanks were so beastly with the splash.
Cant wait to see how it will change the game!
not sure if i agree or not with the broodlord nerf but i still think they should give a lil more help to the ultra. Its still not practical to get at any point of the game
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On June 04 2010 14:08 arnold(soTa) wrote:like seigetanks were barely buffed in the beta, and in the start everyone was like OMG never make them...now everyone makes them and suddenly they are overpowred.. just goes to show that this game is a work in progress and a lot of stuff isnt thought of already.. ppl should play more instead of just watching streams and complaining about imba :> that being said, I dont realy know how to feel about the hellionnerf.. I sure didnt think they r overpowred
Well that was primarily because Siege Tanks did suck when the beta first began. The unit itself was mostly the same, but its counters were several times stronger than they are now. Roaches and Immortals always ate tanks for breakfast, and it wasn't until all the Thor buffs and P/Z changes that tanks started seeing more use.
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tanks still 3 shot roaches and 2 shot hydras unupgraded so I don't think this adresses the issue. What they are doing is nerfing tanks vs Protoss because it now takes an aditional shot to kill zealots/stalkers.
This is not the right nerf Blizzard!
edit: 2 shot hydras not 3 shot
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On June 04 2010 12:19 InfiniteIce wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:11 kNyTTyM wrote:On June 04 2010 12:09 tfmdjeff wrote:
Siege tank damage is nerfed, but is 10 damage going to matter that much when there are 15 of them firing on your units?
And the things that really upset me are the constant zerg tier3 nerfs. Brood lords are basically the only unit that can break terran mech, and now they're being nerfed. they were already fragile and situational enough. Blizzard is really pressing ultralisks as much as possible. Now it takes 11 shots from a tank to kill ultra instead of 9. Is that with 0 armor or the +4 tier armor upgrades? I'd like to see those numbers; I would of course simply test it myself, but...yea, bnet is down. So, what numbers did you use?
500 health +1 base armor
500/(50-1) = 10.2 which is 11 shots
49 x 11 = 539 so no way ultralisk regenerates 39 that fast so 11 shots kills
500/60 = 8.33 = 9shots
9x 60= 540 also no way ultralisk regens that fast.
This is obviously assuming no splash
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On June 04 2010 13:33 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:40 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
So much crying and counter-crying in this thread.
Disclaimer: I'm a Zerg player.
From my perspective, this does not change TvZ mech at all. The upgrades make practically no difference in either the case of Thors or Hellions. What really kills mutalisks is a certain critical number of Thors and smart defense, not an upgrade. There was a mathematical sweet spot with the upgrades before, but it came out so late that it didn't really even matter.
Missing the +1 per upgrade vs. Light is going to make practically no difference at all for Hellions either.
Tanks now do 10 less damage in siege mode. That's going to make practically no difference. The only even remotely visible difference it could make is having splash not be quite so powerful. Now you can lose 80% of your army in 2 seconds instead of 90%.
Trust me, no Zergs are gonna man up and a-move into your mech army now. It's still pretty much the same game as before. To all the Terran players out there: do your mech builds exactly as before and see if you notice any difference at all. My guess is you won't or you'll only notice a difference with 1 or 2 tanks. After you get more tanks, your army is still going to be unapproachable by any sane Zerg player.
Reaper upgrade changes nothing. No, it does not change TvZ mech at all, but it affects TvP mech quite a bit with tanks taking 1 extra shot to kill a zealot/stalker. Nice job blizzard, by trying to fix TvZ, you mess up TvP.
Why would any Protoss use Zealots against mech? If the tanks dont melt them, the Helions will once they get in range. Just throwing away minerals with Zealots.
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On June 04 2010 13:36 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:11 De4ngus wrote:On June 04 2010 12:09 Ideas wrote:On June 04 2010 11:58 Energizer wrote:On June 04 2010 11:56 Ideas wrote:
ok if theyre going to give reapers a 50/50 upgrade then they need to make concussion shells 100/100. 50/50 upgrades in any case are so dumb (previously overlord speed, warpgates, shells, and now this shit).
man i hate reaper rushes lol They give a useless unit some stock, and you call them "dumb" Have you ever seen reapers even used successfully past the 5 minute mark? This doesnt change anything. the reaper is a horribly designed unit that is probably the most shallow in the game. amazing in the 1st 4 minutes, completely useless afterward except as a super expensive scout. This buff just makes them a bigger pain in the ass for the 1st 4 minutes. they should of addressed the reaper a long time ago with an effort to make them good in the later stages of the game instead of this. This is a good point but I don't know what could possibly be done to make the unit less "shallow." remove/nerf the building damage it does and give it stim packs? stim comes late enough so that other races have defense already, so it doesnt compound its strength in early cheeses, and might make them useful in battle for shredding light units like zlots. reapers have similar HP to marines and higher dmg output, much more so if they had stim. marauder-reaper ball could theoretically be effective, with marauders tanking and killing the stalker/roach while reapers in the back melt the zlots and lings. all theorycrafting ofc
Yeah, the building damage isn't really useful considering Marauders are almost as good and much better survivability. Main problem later in the game is that they just take so long to build vs compared to how short they tend to survive in firefights. Something like Stim might not help that too much, since they'll still probably die off relatively quick, and in close fights you would be pressed to reinforce marine as they build faster, or marauder for longer survivability.
I thought about maybe adding an armory/fusion-core level upgrade so they can be reactored, but then that might make them too strong against certain combinations. Using the unit tester, massed reapers rape pretty much any other mass light combination (other than ghosts, though ofc they take even longer to build).
Maybe they should just bring back the old D8 ability back, nerfed a little. From the battle report they were featured in, it seemed really viable for turning the tide of battle if skillfully used.
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Yay! Finally PvT lategame is little bit more playable...
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EPT
