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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 28 2010 10:39 mrdx wrote: Don't try to distort the situation. Blizzard began to speak to KeSPA 3 years before they approached GOM. Don't see how this matters if they were talking about licensing rights they didn't actually own. And Blizzard did state how their products should (and should not) be used. RTFM. Why don't you make it easy for me and quote the relevant part from the EULA? | ||
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BaltA
Norway849 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13017 Posts
So Blizzard are doing everything in their power for SC2 so this wont happen . Example : no LAN and all the major bullshit they've done so far in SC2 + they already sold their exclusive rights for SC2 to GOM. | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
Do they have the right to do so? Absolutely. Are they shooting themselves in the foot? You bet. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5432 Posts
On May 28 2010 22:31 mustache wrote: Why does no kespa mean no money for players and no houses? if kespa could pay then money was being generated by esports which could then be redistributed. It's not like Kespa is making the money. The players make the money and Kespa is jsut the infrastructure that they use to organize things. The players will keep making money as long as the esports scener survives. The scene won't die because GOM can give the rights to others to broadcast, isntead of it coming from Kespa. Players can live in a house just like normal people. If several pros want to live in the same house then they dont need kespa to organize that. Also, it's not said that Kespa will go under, they simply can't dictate things anymore. The rest of the infrastructure( teams, houses etc) could very well stay. Kespa is an unneeded middleman which is now being removed. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. | ||
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aru
183 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On May 28 2010 21:24 maybenexttime wrote: You have NO IDEA how the progaming scene works. You have no idea what KeSPA is. Why are even people like you posting in a serious discussion? No KeSPA means no OGN, no MBC, CJ, SKT, KT and so on. Good luck finding other companies that are going to be willing to fork as much money as KeSPA companies do... Seriously, STOP POSTING. You're making a fool out of yourself. And you think those companies behind kespa are just going to miss out on an opportunity to create income just because Blizzard destroyed their lovely kespa? The companies behind kespa will funnel money into esports, with or without kespa. No OGN/MBC, well, I don't really care. There will be others in place or OGN/MBC will just keep running with licenses from GomTV or Blizzard directly. And stop insulting me and others personally, you stupid piece of shit  | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
CJ Group officially recognizes OGN as a part of their group (they were only majority stock holders before) Shit going down, yo. http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=107220&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd= Press Conference will be held Monday 10:30 AM | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5432 Posts
On May 28 2010 22:55 heishe wrote: And you think those companies behind kespa are just going to miss out on an opportunity to create income just because Blizzard destroyed their lovely kespa? The companies behind kespa will funnel money into esports, with or without kespa. No OGN/MBC, well, I don't really care. There will be others in place or OGN/MBC will just keep running with licenses from GomTV or Blizzard directly. And stop insulting me and others personally, you stupid piece of shit I debunked nearly every single stupid claim I quoted. How am I insulting anyone? I pointed out why he/they are making fools our of themselves... On the other hand, you are insulting me directly. Those comapnies ARE KeSPA. What's so hard to understand? KeSPA negotiated on THEIR BEHALF. Got that? They will not agree to those ridiculous terms. So either Blizzard change their mind or those companies will not "funnel money into esports"... | ||
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Gnabgib
United States381 Posts
On May 28 2010 22:59 Milkis wrote: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=107218&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd= CJ Group officially recognizes OGN as a part of their group (they were only majority stock holders before) Shit going down, yo. Well, that means the OSL stays alive, and that gives two networks to which to do proleague. MBC is the only one out in the cold now in terms of broadcasting. | ||
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RifleCow
Canada637 Posts
On May 28 2010 23:07 maybenexttime wrote: I debunked nearly every single stupid claim I quoted. How am I insulting anyone? I pointed out why he/they are making fools our of themselves... On the other hand, you are insulting me directly. Those comapnies ARE KeSPA. What's so hard to understand? KeSPA negotiated on THEIR BEHALF. Got that? They will not agree to those ridiculous terms. So either Blizzard change their mind or those companies will not "funnel money into esports"... Hes telling you to calm down and his "insult" was actually a joke if you couldn't tell. Also your far from debunking what others have stated. It is true that KeSPA is an organization with chairs from the major sponsors in the korean esports industry. However, it is also a seperate organization and is not directly the sponsor company themselves. What KeSPA does may not completely correlate with what the corporations do - that is what these people are stating. Plus, you do not know the terms that Blizzard wants KeSPA to agree to, so in terms of assessing them as "ridiculous" that is a little too early. Anyways, please refrain from calling people idiots, saying they don't understand anything, and telling them to get out, as it does not give any more legitimacy to your arguement. | ||
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Vykenos
United States56 Posts
I debunked nearly every single stupid claim I quoted. How am I insulting anyone? I pointed out why he/they are making fools our of themselves... On the other hand, you are insulting me directly. Those comapnies ARE KeSPA. What's so hard to understand? KeSPA negotiated on THEIR BEHALF. Got that? They will not agree to those ridiculous terms. So either Blizzard change their mind or those companies will not "funnel money into esports"... So once KeSPA is defunct those corporations arent going to go where the market goes? They are just going to pout in the corner cuz they didnt get there deal? Sure... | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 28 2010 22:59 Milkis wrote: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=107218&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd= CJ Group officially recognizes OGN as a part of their group (they were only majority stock holders before) Shit going down, yo. http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=107220&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd= Press Conference will be held Monday 10:30 AM Better source for the latter article: http://media.daum.net/digital/it/view.html?cateid=1077&newsid=20100528173417767&p=newsis 협회는 "이번 기자회견을 통해 지난 3년간의 지재권 협상과정에서의 보여준 블리자드의 무리한 요구들과 일방적인 협상중단 및 결렬발표 등에 대해 소상히 밝히는 것은 물론, 이번 독점계약체결에 대해 모든 미디어와 e스포츠를 사랑하는 팬들에게 협회의 공식 입장을 명확하게 전하겠다"고 덧붙였다. "KeSPA added that "Through this press conference, we will thoroughly reveal Blizzard's extreme demands and the one-sided announcements of suspension of talks and conclusion , and make our stance clear regarding the recent Exclusive Contract Deal to all media and fans of everyone who loves E-Sports"" | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On May 28 2010 09:43 domane wrote: Who do you know that makes "a living out of playing" the game, that do not hold a KeSPA license? Among Korean players active in SC2 Beta tournaments, Tester, Freedom, and many others have the same license that you have mentioned. Also, it is debatable whether they yet make a living out of playing SC2. Could you clarify the players you are referring to? I didn't think Tester had a licence since he attended the playxp lans that didn't allow KeSPA pros(or rather, kespa didn't allow them to compete, hence no Idra). Artosis said in that video that many players were leaving kespa in order to be able to play SC2. I don't know the current status of the korean SC2 players(I'd imagine a guy like Check do since he was a professional wc3 player already with sponsors backing him up) but it's still in the beta, by the time of release there will no doubt be professional korean SC2 players around(we already have some in EU) do you really disagree? | ||
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AyJay
1515 Posts
I don't see the point of arguing with you, as you don't want to change your opinion. But I do have to say something: "No Lan" - This was done not because blizzard doesn't care about e-sports, but because it promotes pirating and illegal tournaments. While it may be disappointing and irritating for some pro players, I have faith it will work out nicely with bnet "threatening to shut down major BW leagues" - What? I can't find source of blizzard being against pro leagues. Heck, they are allowing current tournaments to finish. "no chat channels" - it's temporal. Blizz promised it, Blizz will deliver it. "region lock" - how does region lock will effect tournaments? Especially in Korea... Go on flame me, call me idiot, tell I don't know anything, I'm done discussing this here Edit: Oh almost forgot: Looking forward to eSports not being locked only in South Korea! | ||
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Sosseres
Sweden41 Posts
2.3 use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent; Which means any small competition you want to hold has to be approved beforehand. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5432 Posts
On May 28 2010 23:15 RifleCow wrote: Hes telling you to calm down and his "insult" was actually a joke if you couldn't tell. Also your far from debunking what others have stated. It is true that KeSPA is an organization with chairs from the major sponsors in the korean esports industry. However, it is also a seperate organization and is not directly the sponsor company themselves. What KeSPA does may not completely correlate with what the corporations do - that is what these people are stating. Plus, you do not know the terms that Blizzard wants KeSPA to agree to, so in terms of assessing them as "ridiculous" that is a little too early. Anyways, please refrain from calling people idiots, saying they don't understand anything, and telling them to get out, as it does not give any more legitimacy to your arguement. They clearly stated that KeSPA is negotating with Blizzard on their behalf. What more do you need? They made a public list of demands made by Blizzard. Blizzard did not officially state any of those were made up by KeSPA. Wanting the ownership of any secondary content using their IPs is not ridiculous? Forcing the progamers to sign additional contracts with Blizzard make them to whatever Blizzard wants before they fulfil the wishes of their actual sponsors is not ridiculous? What about auditing KeSPA? Which arguments did I not debunk (or some other poster with similar views)? On May 28 2010 23:16 Vykenos wrote: So once KeSPA is defunct those corporations arent going to go where the market goes? They are just going to pout in the corner cuz they didnt get there deal? Sure... What exactly makes you think they are magically going to change their mind and agree to those terms in case KeSPA disbands? If they see no reason to become the slaves of Blizzard, why would they once KeSPA is no more? Doesn't make any sense. Mind explaining your train of thought? On May 28 2010 23:28 AyJay wrote: @maybenexttime I don't see the point of arguing with you, as you don't want to change your opinion. Because mine is an educated one. So far most people who are siding with Blizzard prove to have absolutely no idea what KeSPA actually is. But I do have to say something: "No Lan" - This was done not because blizzard doesn't care about e-sports, but because it promotes pirating and illegal tournaments. While it may be disappointing and irritating for some pro players, I have faith it will work out nicely with bnet Then go watch Stars War games... If they cared for esports like they're claiming they are, they would've left LAN in the game and added authentication. How hard would that be? No LAN will harm any sort of esports/competitive gaming scene a lot. "threatening to shut down major BW leagues" - What? I can't find source of blizzard being against pro leagues. Heck, they are allowing current tournaments to finish. That's exactly what Im talking about. How merciful of them... giving KeSPA a grace period until August! How is that not threatening to shut them down? "no chat channels" - it's temporal. Blizz promised it, Blizz will deliver it. They also promised to add online replays to WC3, balance WC3, make a working ladder for BW in co-operation with WGT and much more. "region lock" - how does region lock will effect tournaments? Especially in Korea... It's already affecting the international scene. Go on flame me, call me idiot, tell I don't know anything, I'm done discussing this here Good. Edit: Oh almost forgot: Looking forward to eSports not being locked only in South Korea! You're talking as if it was KeSPA's fault or something. T_______T | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On May 28 2010 23:16 Vykenos wrote: So once KeSPA is defunct those corporations arent going to go where the market goes? They are just going to pout in the corner cuz they didnt get there deal? Sure... Or maybe, they just leave the ESPORTS scene. These companies don't depend on Korean ESPORTS for advertisement, they just see it as a small marketing project. ESPORTS is not that big of a market, companies won't be scrambling to find a team to sponsor. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On May 28 2010 23:43 Sosseres wrote: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/termsofuse-new.html 2.3 use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent; Which means any small competition you want to hold has to be approved beforehand. The mods of TL have responded to this many times within the past few days stating it's nothing new and the TSL has always asked for Blizzards permission so people shouldn't blow this out of proportion and overreact. I'll paste the response here. On May 28 2010 08:52 Manifesto7 wrote: So fucking what. You know what this involves? Signing and faxing a form to them, so that they are not liable for any problems with the tournament. TL has done it with every event we have run in the last 3 years. @maybenexttime I posted a nice little bit of information about a page or 2 back, care to debunk my arguments? I'll requote it for you. On May 28 2010 22:30 xBillehx wrote: Blizzard now has a direct partner to run Starcraft tournaments. It doesn't mean the very same companies that are part of KeSPA will never invest in the future of the scene, it just means they can't have control over everything. SKT, CJ, Samsung (etc) can all still sponsor Starcraft leagues and the teams if they want. They can all continue to fund the houses and train Pro-gamers 14 hours a day. Funding teams and houses to have the best pro-gamers makes people want to watch those gamers and opens their eyes to see the company names on the uniforms. Why would this stop? GOM TV is apparently willing to cooperate with OGN and MBC for broadcasting, who also have nothing to lose by continuing their support like before. So GOM TV had crappy Korean casters, why can't they get new ones? Why can't they improve on what's bad, much like "KeSPA" did since it first came to be? I really don't think it will be all that much different than it is now, perhaps minus the shitty attitude towards foreign markets. We'll have the games available online streaming live as well as worldwide leagues to promote eSports to more companies. Other tournaments like the HDH and TSL are unaffected since they already get permission from Blizzard and as an added bonus might even get their games broadcasted as well. The main point I think people need to understand is this: The companies that sponsor Starcraft leagues will now have one less thing to do, while still getting the exact same advertisement. Companies sponsor for advertisement. None of them care whether it's Flash or Jaedong who wins, as long as they get the company name out. If it's profitable to spread their name all over Starcraft tournaments, theres absolutely no reason to stop. Tell me, what do these companies (aka KeSPA) stand to lose by continuing to support esports like before? Control? | ||
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