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On May 28 2010 16:45 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 16:11 Psiclone wrote:
How does this legally work? Just because you buy a Spalding basketball doesn't mean they have control of NBA games. You pay your $60 for a game why don't 3rd parties have the rights to make video of consenting parties playing it? Because you don't own the game. You purchased a license to use the software. Should read the EULA when you get a chance next time you agree to it. You'll be amazed at how much control software makers put over their products. + Show Spoiler +http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/video+games+and+copyright+law You could start up your own basketball league. Nobody is gonna stop you. GL with it. EULAs are abusive, though. Is there any consumer protection?
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demanding a cut off a huge inflow of income off a game you designed, what assholes.
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On May 28 2010 16:49 Psiclone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 16:45 Baarn wrote:On May 28 2010 16:11 Psiclone wrote:
How does this legally work? Just because you buy a Spalding basketball doesn't mean they have control of NBA games. You pay your $60 for a game why don't 3rd parties have the rights to make video of consenting parties playing it? Because you don't own the game. You purchased a license to use the software. Should read the EULA when you get a chance next time you agree to it. You'll be amazed at how much control software makers put over their products. + Show Spoiler +http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/video+games+and+copyright+law You could start up your own basketball league. Nobody is gonna stop you. GL with it. EULAs are abusive, though. Is there any consumer protection?
Don't agree and don't install the software if you don't like what it says.
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cool beans. the dwarf now sees the highest of all the giants
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On May 28 2010 16:49 Psiclone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 16:45 Baarn wrote:On May 28 2010 16:11 Psiclone wrote:
How does this legally work? Just because you buy a Spalding basketball doesn't mean they have control of NBA games. You pay your $60 for a game why don't 3rd parties have the rights to make video of consenting parties playing it? Because you don't own the game. You purchased a license to use the software. Should read the EULA when you get a chance next time you agree to it. You'll be amazed at how much control software makers put over their products. + Show Spoiler +http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/video+games+and+copyright+law You could start up your own basketball league. Nobody is gonna stop you. GL with it. EULAs are abusive, though. Is there any consumer protection?
Protection from what? It's a luxury product which you can buy or not buy. HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED!
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On May 28 2010 16:56 Bear4188 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 16:49 Psiclone wrote:On May 28 2010 16:45 Baarn wrote:On May 28 2010 16:11 Psiclone wrote:
How does this legally work? Just because you buy a Spalding basketball doesn't mean they have control of NBA games. You pay your $60 for a game why don't 3rd parties have the rights to make video of consenting parties playing it? Because you don't own the game. You purchased a license to use the software. Should read the EULA when you get a chance next time you agree to it. You'll be amazed at how much control software makers put over their products. + Show Spoiler +http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/video+games+and+copyright+law You could start up your own basketball league. Nobody is gonna stop you. GL with it. EULAs are abusive, though. Is there any consumer protection? Protection from what? It's a luxury product which you can buy or not buy. HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED!
;(
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So many people in this thread don't understand what Kespa actually is and what it means for Kespa to die. Boonbag posted an excellent recap of history of Kespa yet, most people skimmed over it because they cant read anything longer than a paragraph, so I'll recap. because the people introduced to SCBW through GOMTV need to understand this
Kespa = The teams and therefore the players
Kespa members pay the upkeep for the pro-gamers and their wages. They run the practice dorms, feed them and pay them wages. The cost for this is in the millions, do you think Blizzard or GomTV is gonna pay to run those teams?
No, Blizzard officially took a stance that mitigates no risk to them and only the benefits - they get control and a rake of whatever (current) meager profit there is in esports; they won't pay for the players or be responsible for cost of running the show - effectively zero risk and a chance for profits. For Blizzard, esport is a bonus, if it grows, it's free revenue and if it dies, they lose nothing.
And to all those optimists saying new sponsors (willing to agree to Blizzard's terms) will jump in and sponsor the teams. Get this, if world of esport is so rosy, why don't we see more sponsors willing make and run teams in the current system where it is broadcast on two cable channels and with 3 professionally run leagues? This doesn't happen. Yet, some of you think sponsors will flock to an internet only broadcast system, where instead of a broad audience you only get the niche hardcore fans?
If Kespa dies, GOMTV league will become effectively an amateur league, you won't see Iris's pimp defend against Bisu's reaver harass, or JD's 2 control muta groups rip some poor sod into pieces. The level of play won't be the same if JD or Flash has to work double shift to buy some ramen noodles.
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The popularity among fans that draws corporate sponsorship is what pays for the players, KESPA is just there to skim off the top, as with any regulatory agency. E-Sports will no more die with KESPA than football would die if the NFL shut down.
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Sponsoring a team will cost TONS of money and only very large companies stand a chance of actually benefitting from that. It also seems reasonable that only computer-related companies would find their relationship with eSports profitable, because its mostly nerds who are watching the game and they wont buy much else. There arent that many big companies from that branch, so the number of possible sponsors seems limited.
Personally I think Blizzard should be satisfied with the revenues they get from the sale of the game itself and put no restrictions on the game itself. They risk overshadowing the game by the side-issues and that is not good. And all this for what? To give us players a better playing experience? Not really. Its all about making money, but a league like BattleNet will never work with enforced subscriptions.
Starcraft is a game and no one should have to buy a license to play / watch a game, only buying the game itself should cost something. If someone tries to do this I call him greedy and no one likes evil greedy people.
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On May 28 2010 18:04 Bear4188 wrote:
The popularity among fans that draws corporate sponsorship is what pays for the players, KESPA is just there to skim off the top, as with any regulatory agency. E-Sports will no more die with KESPA than football would die if the NFL shut down.
Kespa is not a regulatory agency "skimming off the top" you idiot, go read the fucking post by Boonbags. They ARE the teams, and the group broadcasting SC. Fans draw sponsorship in the sense that some company may host a tournament - through prize money. We see this through MSL and OSL sponsors - but what people don't get is this is completely minimal compared to the cost of running the teams. Korean Air might be willing to host one OSL but you think they will be willing to build a practice dorm, feed the players and provide them with living costs? Get real.
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On May 28 2010 17:55 wassbix wrote:
Kespa members pay the upkeep for the pro-gamers and their wages. They run the practice dorms, feed them and pay them wages. The cost for this is in the millions, do you think Blizzard or GomTV is gonna pay to run those teams?
Thank God for Kespa! It's not like the team sponors are actually sponsoring the teams, is it? Kespa also invented electricity - you read it here first!
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What have you done Artosis!! This is all your fault!
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Netherlands4520 Posts
ya artosis plz explain your suspicious role in this matter
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I never really stopped to think about this before, but suddendly I just realized something (I know I may be a bit too slow, but for me it's shocking): Blizzard really IS turning into a tyrant company. I used to love blizzard games but after wow and their mix with activision they've gone to shit imho. I know there's a lot of fanboyism when it comes to blizzard products and most people will just buy and play whatever they get out of their asses as long as it has the blizzard logo on it. But don't be fools blizzard doesnt deliver quality games anymore. They just want to dominate the market and control us into doing whatever they want us to do and playing exactly how they want us to play. Something that made blizzard games great was the freedom the community had to play them the way they wanted but that is no more, the perfect example is SC2 and Bnet2:
First they remove the chats. GG blizzard
Then they remove the possibility to play in other regions. GG blizzard
No LAN play!!! GG blizzard
Cant watch replays with friends. GG blizzard
They try to hide as much information as they can when it comes to player profiles and rankings, keeping players anonymous when the community wants the exact opposite. GG blizzard
Matchmaking is a complete mystery and alot of people wonders if it even works. GG blizzard
Whoever wants to organize a tournament has to go first through them to get the ok. GG blizzard
And now tvs can only broadcast their games the way they want... can't even think of a western tv channel that will pay them ip rights to broadcast something when they don't even know if its going to work out... way to go, making things easy GG blizzard GG
Stop assuming everything blizzard does is perfect by default because it's not. We've really got to do something. Else Blizzard will just keep the gee gee without us being able to fight back. They always say they only release games "when they're done"... now seriously who in teamliquid really thinks that sc2 will be remotely done by the 27th of july?
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KeSPA is quite the shitty governing organ for e-sports and really ought to be replaced but that doesn't mean having Blizzard extert total control over broadcasting rights is a good thing.
I've derailed this thread enough with my 'oh noes structual issues and conflict of interest!' in the midst of all KeSPA hate and Blizzard fanboyism but the truth this sort of arrangements becoming standard for e-sports will at some point come back and fuck us in the ass.
I'm not confident enough in english to make some long blog post or similiar going through the legal and economical ramifications of this but I hope someone will.
No we don't want KeSPA but we don't want Blizzard either.
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This thread is so funny - almost every post is either QQ, go to hell blizz, this end of esports orOMG IM NOT BUYING SC2.
:D
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On May 28 2010 19:34 AyJay wrote:
This thread is so funny - almost every post is either QQ, go to hell blizz, this end of esports orOMG IM NOT BUYING SC2.
:D
Its more funny how people dont even know what kespa is but make stupid comments..
Most think kespa is a group of referees that make rules and take money from everybody as a governing body..
Kespa is everything..
By saying let kespa die, you say let teams die,let osl, msl, proleague die, fuck you sponsors that make pro starcraft possible.. Let flash and jaedong lose their paying jobs for who knows what? Playing on shitty internet tournaments for prize money..
I like gom for their english stream but thats it, if it didnt have english casting nobody would care about it which means you are selfish..
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On May 28 2010 20:13 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 19:34 AyJay wrote:
This thread is so funny - almost every post is either QQ, go to hell blizz, this end of esports orOMG IM NOT BUYING SC2.
:D
Its more funny how people dont even know what kespa is but make stupid comments.. Most think kespa is a group of referees that make rules and take money from everybody as a governing body.. Kespa is everything.. By saying let kespa die, you say let teams die,let osl, msl, proleague die, fuck you sponsors that make pro starcraft possible.. Let flash and jaedong lose their paying jobs for who knows what? Playing on shitty internet tournaments for prize money.. I like gom for their english stream but thats it, if it didnt have english casting nobody would care about it which means you are selfish..
kespa organizes the teams, pays the money and so forth... so what? When they're gone, somebody else will do it. Where do you think kespa has the money from to pay the players? They don't get it from the government, they get it from sponsors and OGN/MBC. What do you think? That kespa is some philantrophical organisation who just throws all the money at the players for nothing? When kespa is gone, sponsors will simply have contracts with the clans or players themselves. The clans will hire managers who organize the training houses and keep their players on check.
It has been run like this in Europe forever and it works just fine. And now kespa won't be able to pull their restrictive bullshit anymore ("don't play in foreign tournaments or expect punishment").
And wtf at you people who say Blizzard doesn't care about eSports? Do you have no brains at all? Firstly, they can make money in the eSports business if they control it. Secondly, if eSports grows, more players will buy their games -> more money for them. PLUS it's a huge publicity "+" when people see them as the messiahs of eSports.
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I just hope this is the end for KeSPA !
Would be cool if pros and semi pros can have their own sponsors now, better teams and a better environment for progaming.
I dont like how boot campish it is to become a pro gamer over there. That is without earning real money. All the pros over there are more like slaves no real pros like in sport or something :/
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On May 28 2010 20:20 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 20:13 iounas wrote:On May 28 2010 19:34 AyJay wrote:
This thread is so funny - almost every post is either QQ, go to hell blizz, this end of esports orOMG IM NOT BUYING SC2.
:D
Its more funny how people dont even know what kespa is but make stupid comments.. Most think kespa is a group of referees that make rules and take money from everybody as a governing body.. Kespa is everything.. By saying let kespa die, you say let teams die,let osl, msl, proleague die, fuck you sponsors that make pro starcraft possible.. Let flash and jaedong lose their paying jobs for who knows what? Playing on shitty internet tournaments for prize money.. I like gom for their english stream but thats it, if it didnt have english casting nobody would care about it which means you are selfish.. kespa organizes the teams, pays the money and so forth... so what? When they're gone, somebody else will do it. Where do you think kespa has the money from to pay the players? They don't get it from the government, they get it from sponsors and OGN/MBC. What do you think? That kespa is some philantrophical organisation who just throws all the money at the players for nothing? When kespa is gone, sponsors will simply have contracts with the clans or players themselves. The clans will hire managers who organize the training houses and keep their players on check.
Companies/sponsors are also on kespa board so they are kespa, OGN/MBC are also part of kespa.. Kespa is a union of everything that makes esports running in Korea and "kespa" represents all of them..They are all big companies who can support the scene with millions of dollars..
Nobody is going to put big money on a league running on internet stream..
Gom will likely make money by charging for the stream where you can actually see whats going on and have a shitty free one like esl.. And Im not paying for that as I dont pay for watching football..
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EPT
