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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 27 2010 19:51 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. oh i know that. i'm just saying if kespa's motivation were as pure as they'd claimed this would only affect them positively. they don't have to worry about paying for broadcasting rights, they don't have to worry about running tournaments, all they have to do is sponsor the teams which they seemed to have no problem doing before. so what's changed that would want to make kespa pull out?
How would this affect them positively? GomTV paid for the broadcasting rights. The costs are going to have to be passed down to the corporate sponsors. If you assume that their advertisement budget stays the same then they won't be able to afford the team houses and maids and the 10k salary for low A team players and the 200k salary for the Ace players.
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This is getting ridiculous. How can you people, with all the ressources on this site, be so uneducated about pro gaming scene.
If you have questions as how all this works, there are tons of people that posted in this thread, very knownledgeable, that can provide you with the right answers.
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On May 27 2010 19:42 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:34 epi wrote:
This is the nuclear option. I don't think Blizzard thinks that they can run anything close to what OGN and MBC have going with SC1. I don't think they care. This is about showing Kespa that they mean business, and they are perfectly okay with killing the SC1 scene and having a smaller SC2 scene If blizz goes through with this I hope they cop a serious player backlash. Such a greedy company, they don't give a fuck about esports. SC2 will just be another WC3 and this will be a huge step backwards. All these low post sc2 idiots slanting the poll 
Oh shut up 2009 joiner. I dont post often, but I clearly played BW
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 27 2010 19:55 Hectic wrote:
Someone should set up a 2 foreign sponsored korean pro teams.
If we all pay 5 bucks a month each should buy plenty of noodles and housing. lawl
Maybe you'll pay 5 dollars a month. But 95% of the potential audience doesn't want to pay 5 dollars a month. Plus you don't want to have a barrier for people to learn about esports by forcing them to pay.
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On May 27 2010 19:54 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:53 teamsolid wrote:On May 27 2010 19:49 Garrl wrote:On May 27 2010 19:45 teamsolid wrote:On May 27 2010 19:32 Garrl wrote:On May 27 2010 19:30 dethrawr wrote:On May 27 2010 19:28 Garrl wrote:
Because there will be no more tournaments BUT GOM's, they'll have a monopoly.
Whats the difference with kespa having the monopoly of RIGHTS for broadcasting, than gomtv having them? OSL/MSL will continue to run (if OGN/MBC want to run them), and im sure GOM will negotiate OGN/MBC to split PL broadcasting rights. Because KesPA is a corporation, GOM is a company - GOM wants to knock out it's competitors, which is why they won't license OSL/MSL. That's the dumbest thing I've read in this thread so far. Why would GOM kill off all the BW leagues... they would be the most hated company in E-Sports if they did that. No one would watch their leagues with all the bad press, fan outrage, etc. Obviously... they would just negotiate a deal with KeSPA for broadcasting rights of PL/MSL/OSL. They might not kill them off, but they'll charge a lot of money for the right to broadcast games - meaning that, like last year's MSL, you get tiny turnouts and laggy streams because they had to spend their whole budget on licensing their tournaments. And you know this how? These are KOREAN companies, so clearly they know how much money there really is in E-Sports. They're not dumb, they won't charge outrageous fees if it's simply not feasible. Just like how KeSPa "sold off broadcasting rights" to the TV channels... that didn't kill off E-Sports did it? Don't be ridiculous. You don't konw much about business do you ? :D
Business isn't cut and dry like that, screw everyone else at any cost. That's just dumb. Sometimes it's beneficial to cooperate.
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On May 27 2010 19:55 mawno wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:42 Scarecrow wrote:On May 27 2010 19:34 epi wrote:
This is the nuclear option. I don't think Blizzard thinks that they can run anything close to what OGN and MBC have going with SC1. I don't think they care. This is about showing Kespa that they mean business, and they are perfectly okay with killing the SC1 scene and having a smaller SC2 scene If blizz goes through with this I hope they cop a serious player backlash. Such a greedy company, they don't give a fuck about esports. SC2 will just be another WC3 and this will be a huge step backwards. On May 27 2010 19:39 mawno wrote:
This is great news!
All these low post sc2 idiots slanting the poll Joined TL.net before you so stfu. This is the best way to make E-Sports grow, both in Korea and elsewhere.
Yeah, best way is to ditch 2 tv stations and all the teams and give the rights to small internet streaming company that will likely charge for streams unless you want to watch it in mobile phone quality.. Only good thing is that we get English commentary..
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On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money.
If the sponsors are paying for the team houses and salary, and they did before... this change wont effect that at all.
Sponsors = paying players
Television + game advertising (and tournament tickets) = paying KeSPA
KeSPA = paying GomTV
GomTV = paying blizz
To clarify, the only people this effects is KeSPA. They will get lower profits since they arent making all of the profit from tournaments and advertising.
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If blizzard is serious about espoorts they should sponsor their own team.
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Guys on KESPA's side:
Read the recent Korean article translated by l10f "The Reality Of Progaming"
I think that article shows perfectly how the current progaming scene really needs an overhaul, Blizzard might fuck up and we'll have to go a few years back in time.. on the other hand they might do it right and e-sports will finally become something of a real career choice and not just child labour since 13 years old 14 hours a day.
Seeing as CJ which is a very wealthy company owns GomTV and they should know a lot about the progaming scene in Korea as they have their own team etc. I believe its a great move that Blizzard has decided to partner up with them.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 27 2010 20:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. If the sponsors are paying for the team houses and salary, and they did before... this change wont effect that at all. Sponsors = paying players Television + game advertising = paying KeSPA KeSPA = paying GomTV GomTV = paying blizz
Television + game advertising + Sponsors = Situation now where teams only pay 10K to bottom A teamers and 200k to stars. If Blizzard wants 50% of the sponsorship income, then teams will have no money to pay the players after subtracting the costs of production.
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On May 27 2010 19:56 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:51 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. oh i know that. i'm just saying if kespa's motivation were as pure as they'd claimed this would only affect them positively. they don't have to worry about paying for broadcasting rights, they don't have to worry about running tournaments, all they have to do is sponsor the teams which they seemed to have no problem doing before. so what's changed that would want to make kespa pull out? Any of the reasons (listed in the Kespa speaks out on IP rights thread) why they couldn't come to an agreement with blizzard in the first place?
because they'd monopolized sc progaming and didn't want to pay royalties?
On May 27 2010 19:56 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 19:51 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. oh i know that. i'm just saying if kespa's motivation were as pure as they'd claimed this would only affect them positively. they don't have to worry about paying for broadcasting rights, they don't have to worry about running tournaments, all they have to do is sponsor the teams which they seemed to have no problem doing before. so what's changed that would want to make kespa pull out? How would this affect them positively? GomTV paid for the broadcasting rights. The costs are going to have to be passed down to the corporate sponsors. If you assume that their advertisement budget stays the same then they won't be able to afford the team houses and maids and the 10k salary for low A team players and the 200k salary for the Ace players.
i'm not sure i understand. league sponsors are the ones who will be bearing the cost of broadcasting fees and i don't believe kespa made it a habit to sponsor its own starleagues. team sponsorship is different entirely.
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Okay I'm gonna write it for you all with all details so you fucking get it at last. Brb.
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This should be great.
Kespa must be pissed, I know I would be.
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On May 27 2010 20:06 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 20:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. If the sponsors are paying for the team houses and salary, and they did before... this change wont effect that at all. Sponsors = paying players Television + game advertising = paying KeSPA KeSPA = paying GomTV GomTV = paying blizz Television + game advertising + Sponsors = Situation now where teams only pay 10K to bottom A teamers and 200k to stars. If Blizzard wants 50% of the sponsorship income, then teams will have no money to pay the players after subtracting the costs of production.
This makes no sense. At all.
Players that are sponsored get paid from their sponsors. The sponsors do not pay GomTV or Blizzard a penny. This is just you being extremely paranoid or angry at Blizzard... or something.
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On May 27 2010 20:05 Puosu wrote:
Guys on KESPA's side:
Read the recent Korean article translated by l10f "The Reality Of Progaming"
I think that article shows perfectly how the current progaming scene really needs an overhaul, Blizzard might fuck up and we'll have to go a few years back in time.. on the other hand they might do it right and e-sports will finally become something of a real career choice and not just child labour since 13 years old 14 hours a day.
Seeing as CJ which is a very wealthy company owns GomTV and they should know a lot about the progaming scene in Korea as they have their own team etc. I believe its a great move that Blizzard has decided to partner up with them.
Blizzard is not actually "handling" anything at all though. The only thing the are doing is adding another cost to the running of a pro gamer team. They don't seem to be investing any money of their own.
At the very very best the current orginizers agree to pay off Gom and things continue as normal, except for the fact that the money to pay Gom (actually blizzard via Gom) needs to come from somewhere. And that somewhere will be the living conditions of the gamers.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 27 2010 20:05 Puosu wrote:
Guys on KESPA's side:
Read the recent Korean article translated by l10f "The Reality Of Progaming"
I think that article shows perfectly how the current progaming scene really needs an overhaul, Blizzard might fuck up and we'll have to go a few years back in time.. on the other hand they might do it right and e-sports will finally become something of a real career choice and not just child labour since 13 years old 14 hours a day.
I have read the article. I don't understand why do people think more money will go to these players if Blizzard wants to a cut.
Fundamental law of esports Business
Money that goes into esports = Money that goes out.
If you take away the corporate sponsors, there's less money coming in. If you add Blizzard who will take money out of esports. Players will have a even smaller share of the pie.
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On May 27 2010 20:09 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 20:05 Puosu wrote:
Guys on KESPA's side:
Read the recent Korean article translated by l10f "The Reality Of Progaming"
I think that article shows perfectly how the current progaming scene really needs an overhaul, Blizzard might fuck up and we'll have to go a few years back in time.. on the other hand they might do it right and e-sports will finally become something of a real career choice and not just child labour since 13 years old 14 hours a day.
Seeing as CJ which is a very wealthy company owns GomTV and they should know a lot about the progaming scene in Korea as they have their own team etc. I believe its a great move that Blizzard has decided to partner up with them. Blizzard is not actually "handling" anything at all though. The only thing the are doing is adding another cost to the running of a pro gamer team. They don't seem to be investing any money of their own. At the very very best the current orginizers agree to pay off Gom and things continue as normal, except for the fact that the money to pay Gom (actually blizzard via Gom) needs to come from somewhere. And that somewhere will be the living conditions of the gamers.
Again, PLAYER SPONSORS ARE NOT EFFECTED IN THE SLIGHTEST. The player sponsors do not pay KeSPA, GomTV, Blizzard, or anybody but the players/teams they are sponsoring. In return, that player/team wears their gear/suits/advertises for them. This entire thing has NOTHING to do with player sponsors. League sponsors maybe, but that will likely go unchanged as well since the league sponsors were already paying somebody. The only profits that are effected is KeSPA.
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On May 27 2010 20:06 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 20:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 27 2010 19:48 T.O.P. wrote:On May 27 2010 19:43 mahnini wrote:On May 27 2010 19:38 KlaCkoN wrote:
The way I understand it is that the companies making up kespa currently are the ones paying for the entire progaming scene. Rent for team houses, food, transportation, _salaries_ etc. If they are forced out of the picture by this then that means that progaming is thrown back to 2000? With the gamers living in crappy basements eating cheap ramen and competing for prize money as their only way to survive?
So blizzard essentially just killed _brood war_ progaming? Please someone tell me I am wrong >_<.
I can't see this ending well for Star2 either, To my understanding Gom was extremly unpopular in korea and who's going to sponsor them anyway since they just said fuck off to all the major companies intrested in investing in gaming?
Also I am quite sure I read somewhere on this site that OGN/MBC bought the rights to broadcast starcraft indefinetly from blizzard ages ago, what's up with that? why would this change the situation with sponsors? according to some people kespa didn't make money from progaming at all so GOMTV bearing the cost of running the tournaments should be a load off kespa's back. since kespa wasn't sponsoring / running the leagues for profit they'd have no problem switching over to GOMTV right? that is, unless kespa isn't just in it for the sake of esports. The reason why progamers are able to live in team houses (Free food, maids, living quarters, and practice area) and earn a salary is because of the corporate sponsors that are behind Kespa. Without these sponsors. Korean "progamers" will be playing SC2 like foreigners, which is to try to win 1st place in tournaments for the prize money. If the sponsors are paying for the team houses and salary, and they did before... this change wont effect that at all. Sponsors = paying players Television + game advertising = paying KeSPA KeSPA = paying GomTV GomTV = paying blizz Television + game advertising + Sponsors = Situation now where teams only pay 10K to bottom A teamers and 200k to stars. If Blizzard wants 50% of the sponsorship income, then teams will have no money to pay the players after subtracting the costs of production.
corporate (non-kespa) sponsors + ad revenue > cost of starleague
brand marketing + keeping esports alive > cost of sponsoring team
this doesn't really change all that much unless kespa has something to lose in not running starleagues aka cash.
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Only time will tell if this decision by blizzard will turn out for the good or bad for Esport. I sincerely hope that it turns out great! Judging from Mike Morhaime's letter blizzard only seem to have good intentions which is super!
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On May 27 2010 20:12 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 20:09 KlaCkoN wrote:On May 27 2010 20:05 Puosu wrote:
Guys on KESPA's side:
Read the recent Korean article translated by l10f "The Reality Of Progaming"
I think that article shows perfectly how the current progaming scene really needs an overhaul, Blizzard might fuck up and we'll have to go a few years back in time.. on the other hand they might do it right and e-sports will finally become something of a real career choice and not just child labour since 13 years old 14 hours a day.
Seeing as CJ which is a very wealthy company owns GomTV and they should know a lot about the progaming scene in Korea as they have their own team etc. I believe its a great move that Blizzard has decided to partner up with them. Blizzard is not actually "handling" anything at all though. The only thing the are doing is adding another cost to the running of a pro gamer team. They don't seem to be investing any money of their own. At the very very best the current orginizers agree to pay off Gom and things continue as normal, except for the fact that the money to pay Gom (actually blizzard via Gom) needs to come from somewhere. And that somewhere will be the living conditions of the gamers. Again, PLAYER SPONSORS ARE NOT EFFECTED IN THE SLIGHTEST. The player sponsors do not pay KeSPA, GomTV, Blizzard, or anybody but the players/teams they are sponsoring. In return, that player/team wears their gear/suits/advertises for them. This entire thing has NOTHING to do with player sponsors. League sponsors maybe, but that will likely go unchanged as well since the league sponsors were already paying somebody. The only profits that are effected is KeSPA.
Kespa ARE (mostly) made up by the player sponsors. For fucks sake this has been stated over and over.
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EPT
