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On May 14 2010 16:34 Auronz wrote:
"I hope the ultralisk change will not result in a unique size reduction. Something has to be done about the armor type in the game. "
If they change the armour type and nothing does bonus damage to lisks, it would be extremely overpowered, we want them to be useful not insta-win buttons, rite?
changing something about the armor type doesnt mean that the ultralisk won't have any armor type anymore. It's still biological and massive without the armored....
and btw, zerg got used to 2 hatch openings because it was not possible to win on 1 base without having the opponent screw up tremendously. Zerg don't have a viable all in strategy, we simply can not produce as many units as other races without an expansion, because we need the larvae for drones. It was fine, since it was easy for us (build-order wise) to go fast expansion, but defending all ins is nearly impossible now against players with a little micro. Seems like we all have to go 2hatch-1base-something now
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Roaches need to have 100hp or maybe 120hp (max) with 2 armor and 1 pob.
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Zerg has only one caster that has no attack what so ever (unless you want to include queens as a caster which I think would be silly since they are really just an extension of the hatchery).
Okay, who in the hell still uses this retarded argument? The infestor is the single best caster, possibly one of the best units, in the entire game. The infestor could have an insta-win ability that boots the other person from the game and people would complain about it not having an attack.
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I think you didn't finish my post, Auronz, i proposed something like this:
Maybe his armor upgrade in the ultralisk den should reduce selective units damage (like the raven drone) by some % (marauders and stalkers i think). Maybe it should nullify their +dmg vs high armor type.
Because the big problem of ultralisk are low gaz unit hard countering them (mostly marauders). Ground units like tanks, immortals, maybe archons should hardcounter ultralisks.
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Yeah is it even posssible to hold off a 4-5 gate mid game push anymore like tasteless did to day without suiciding yourself by building too many spine crawlers?
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either im getting much worse or Zerg is almost laughable now
I think I might just stop playing until they make another patch
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The Thor is slowly evolving to become a Goliath! :D
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I think Blizzard isn't anti-zerg, it's anti-idra. This patch is only for the HDH match between idra and nony, and roaches will change right back after the match is played.
I kid... I kid... but really people, way too much theory-crafting without real gameplay experience yet.
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It's totally hilarous that Zerg even whines more than Terran and Toss players did in the first 8 patches all together.
The roach deserved that nerf since day one, it was a totally insane tank from tier one and being worth the supply of a zergling and not even much more expensive. Roaches deserves their place but I personally think Blizzard is totally right with this change seeing more different units in 200/200 armies (especially higher tier units).
Talking about the Thor, it definatly has to be well observed how this change affects the game, but I suppose its not that much of a buff since for PvT I tended to fight them with stalkers and immortal while chargelots rather focus on marauder. Since Zealots are the only melee unit in a protoss army, that shouldnt affect the whole thing too much. For Zerg the Zergling is a far more effective as a counter since they can surround ther thor and deal a lot of damage with these units. However I'm not sure if it isn't even an advantag if it takes LESS lings to surround the thor and get it stuck or if it is a disadvantage that less zergling can attack at once.
The forge nerf isn't quite obvious to me, canon rushes were always a matter of scouting... however, the timing doesn't bother me as much as the hp change. That will surely hurt when walling off with a forge. However, the 2 gate push into wall-off seemed to work well for me anyway lately against zerg so I'm not too shocked about that change.
In short: I'm fine with this patch, totally lmao about people raging like if it's the end of the world.
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I dont like another Zerg nerf, but I think this is just a minor "tweak" before they give us a big "zerg patch" where ultralisks will be focused, but probably other z units too.
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I have to agree that dustin browders kids play terran, cauz he probably forgot their birthday and had to it up for them or something :D
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I don't see why it's that huge of a nerf anyways.
Before, it was every 8 roaches you had to make an overlord.
Now, it's every 4 roaches you had to make an overlord.
So pre-patch 12:
Every 8 roaches including teh o/l was 700 minerals total and 9 larvae total
Post patch 12:
Every 8 roaches including o/ls is 800 minerals total and 10 larvae total.
So you've increased the mineral cost (effectively) by 14% and increased the larvae cost by 11%
Really not that huge of a nerf. It's only lategame that it makes that huge of a difference when you get supply capped and everyone knows zerg has had the strongest 200/200 not due to its army being the strongest but due to the ability to sit around massing up larvae with injections until you suicide your army and proceed to instantly be back at 200/200 again from a single production cycle.
From one who prefers protoss of the 3 races (I've played all three of them pretty extensively), as much as I hate to say it, it looks like roaches might need a little pick-me-up if they're going to be sitting around in the realm of the marauder / zealot.
Think they ought to give them their other armor point back, or something? Or would you call them fine, as is?
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when will they finally change it to
hydra T 1,5 75/25
roach T 2 100/50 (with speed or +1 armor from beginning)
or change those badass voidrayrushes. i played now 4 games with zerg and i went on ling to hydra. a big hole where my main evolved. i was totally vulnerable and onebase to pump enough linge. and to thos who say: uh its just one supply, make the overlord more! go to the editor and make the marine 2 supply. now try to play. its really hard i can imagine. i know, that roach and marine arent even in tech but could you terrans play like a toss at beginning?
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75/25 resource roaches for 2 supply is a freaking joke. Zerg will have to make a ridiculous amount of overlords to keep up with even modest roach production.
FAIL
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Nothing about the replay issue: "the data mod doesn't match..."?
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This is all MOONGLADES fault ... in the 1st round of HDH he built a million spine crawlers vs Nony and went straight muta ... caused blizzard to nerf spine crawlers. In D9D #113 he makes a million roaches... caused blizzard to nerf roaches 2 supply. His abuse of the game has caused this ... seriously blame moonglade. =P
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For me, this change is really great. Since im a sc1 player I havent really adopted to the use of new sc2 units all that much when I play z. I think that muta/ling beats hydras (got horribly raped ofc) but oh well, thats life I guess. I really do think that the roaches needed something about them changed, im not sure this is the solution, but its beta, lets give it a go.
Gotta be frustrating playing tournements when patch suddenly changes gameplan this much :O
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On May 14 2010 15:53 gavss wrote:
zergs are whining because they got so used to 2 hatch openings
so what you think zergs should do is 1base?
are you out of your mind?
a 1base zerg vs 1base toss or terran doesnt stand a chance unless its an all-in we are talking about, the zerg simply doesnt have enough larva to produce drones and army at the same time.
so, you say "zergs are whining because they got so used to 2 hatch openings", well, 1base is out of the question, so shall I try a 3hatch opening? (extremely sarcastic)
about the patch:
Thors - a cool effect i guess, i dont think it will have much of an impact on the game tho.
Forge - to prevent forgerushes, Im a noob that play in silver league and I actually saw quite a lot of those before the patch, I saw a lot of other cheeses as well, I hate silver league, just a bunch of cheesing noobs that play to win instead of playing to get good at the game.
Mothership - they removed an exploit, woohoo (sarcastic), IMO no real change
Roach - I did think the roach was still a tad bit too strong for its cost before the patch, so I did expect it to be nerfed in one way or another, but this is too much, I like to start zvp with lings into roaches into hydras and when they start wasting resources on HT and colossi tech-switch back into mass roach and after that tech switch back and forth between roach, hydra and roach/hydra, of course filling in with whatever unit seem best. but seriously? what is zerg supposed to do against colossi and storm now? colossi can be taken care of with infestor, sure, but what about storm?
Marauder - why no nerf? marauder is cost effective against every ground unit in the entire game, with the two exceptions of hydras and lings, but marauders with stim is cost effective against those as well.
Sentry - no change, no surprise, but I feel a forcefield nerf wouldnt be too bad, but then again, they nerfed the damage in the previous patch so I guess thats alright.
Ultralisks - my suggestion is to keep the size as it is, the ultralisk is supposed to be that big for story and epic awesomeness reasons, but I think it would be awesome if blizz gave the ultralisk cliffwalking just like the colossi, the motivation would be that the ultralisk is so large it can walk up and down cliffs no problem, by doing this the ultralisk automaticly is able to walk over forcefield, again, just like the colossi, and thus the focefield "exploit" is fixed, the ultralisk will then also become an excellent base-raider, however, it would still be a poor excuse of a tank.
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On May 14 2010 17:23 GoDannY wrote:
The roach deserved that nerf since day one, it was a totally insane tank from tier one and being worth the supply of a zergling and not even much more expensive.
a zergling takes up 0,5 supply fyi, newbie.
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uhh i can't even patch now... did anyone else have to reinstall the whole game since the patch?
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EPT
