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The issue with Zerg has really widely been discussed and that is unit diversity and I can see how the Roach supply increase could lead to another more substantial patch. The thing is with Zerg right now is it feels like you playing a continually up-hill battle to mass enough units to over-take your opponent. This is just wrong, Zerg should be the one that has its opponents struggling to out-produce them, not the other way around.
Essentially Zerg got some more costly units supply and resource wise with SC2, while both Protoss and Terran got substantial power-house units added to their armies, and wide-sweeping synergy-type mechanics and units for the entire race. Right now the only 'synergy' Zerg has is massing Larvae and massing Creep Tumors and as a result Creep - which provides far to small a buff compared to the other races.
I have played all three races and Zerg has power in certain circumstances, I've won with it, I've lost to it with both the other races, but it just feels to inconsistent. The play is not nearly as smooth as what we've come to expect with Zerg and the insect / hive-like feel most would expect the race to have seems to be continually diminishing throughout the patches.
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On May 14 2010 14:22 HubertFelix wrote:I hope you're right about this Baeracaed  I hope the ultralisk change will not result in a unique size reduction. Something has to be done about the armor type in the game. Some heavy gas unit should be able to hard counter them, like immortals, tanks, or infestors. But low gaz units like marauders shouldn't be able to hard counter them. Maybe his armor upgrade in the ultralisk den should reduce selective units damage (like the raven drone) by some % (marauders and stalkers i think). Maybe it should nullify their +dmg vs high armor type.
I can't see any change making them that useful unless it somehow let's them avoid forcefields. The ultralisk could be buffed to 200 dmg and it still wouldn't matter with forcefields restricting them from reaching anything.
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I've played like 10 games or so now, and the Thor radius decrease seems to be a much bigger deal than I thought. Thors just work so much better together with a big army now instead of getting in the way of everything.
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TBH, zerg players shouldn't be whining bout switching races, but this is the opportunity to become a better player. Once the game does get balanced toss and terran will have a hard time. ff and marauder nerf!
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gee, this patch doesnt make me want to go back to playing sc2 at all. although the smaller THOR has been a long time coming... no doubt inspired by the sc2pro mod.
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played a lot of games yesterday. protoss all ins seem totally unbeatable now. they just get too many units too fast. we don't even need to talk about maps like blistering sands, cause you can't effectively tower protect your base there anyways, but even on normal maps. protoss seems so OP right now. I used to beat the protoss all in with a mix of roaches and lings, cause pure lings and pure roaches suck against a decent protoss. but now it's totally impossible to pull that off, for obvious reasons. if I get 5 or 6 crawlers in front of my base he simply expos too and outmacros me, plus he has easy ways to get units into my main if he goes robo anyways.
vs terran I don't know. I played against a few but I didn't notice any changes in balance (I used to go mass lings and then mutas or hydras+banelings+infestors anyways, since TvZ is mostly a map control matchup)
I'm 1850 platinum by the way. I know, not too good but not bad either.
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The way slush's roach/hydra/infestor army got shamelessly rolled my that Terran M&M&M ball was really tragic 
Think this roach nerf may be worse late game than I thought.
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On May 14 2010 14:42 stormtemplar wrote:
Oh Cmon, the roach nerf is not bad, people win lategame without roaches. (See day9 daily about ghosts vZ it was hydra Bling/Zling otherstuff)
well that is kinda diff topic, for that game it was talking bout how hydra ling it kinda like proper combo, or popular combo for zvt, so talking about a roach patch in the zvt match up doesnt really make total sense imo, but for a zvp this makes a huge differnce were i belie raoch are the core unit that is used, and in zvt for ppl like slush, who like the roach play
the main concept in the neft is the fact taht zerg cant seem to outproduce anyone anyomre b/c there units are now 2 supply making for a quicker max. like in a post or 2 above, zerg should be teh one that outmass ppl making the opponent want ot come and fight back not the other way around
**side note, you talk about ling baneling hydra, machine is doing that now vs qxc :D
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On May 14 2010 14:42 stormtemplar wrote:
Oh Cmon, the roach nerf is not bad, people win lategame without roaches. (See day9 daily about ghosts vZ it was hydra Bling/Zling otherstuff)
Posts like this enrage me more then anything else. "Sure roaches are useless but who cares? just build something else".
Thanks. How about we make stalkers cost 4 supply? No big deal you can still make other units, so what the problem?
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On May 14 2010 14:35 graphene wrote:
TBH, zerg players shouldn't be whining bout switching races, but this is the opportunity to become a better player. Once the game does get balanced toss and terran will have a hard time. ff and marauder nerf!
Every time there is a patch, regardless of the race or nerf (even if its needed), some people will be unhappy. Given enough time, people either learn to live with it, or switch races and get on with their lives. This is normal (and kind of reminds me of a few years back when I played WoW).
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With the rotches nerf nony' s chances against idra has futher increased in hdh invitaional
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Massing roaches really shouldn't work, they should be like mutas in BW, only really there to transition into the latter part of the game.
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On May 14 2010 14:55 Subtitled wrote:
Massing roaches really shouldn't work, they should be like mutas in BW, only really there to transition into the latter part of the game.
What? Why do you say that? Terran and Protoss armies consist largely of T1 and T1.5 units, so why can't Zerg?
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Actually, heavy roach armies are intended. The core of your army has to be low gas unit, especially if you're teching on high gas units.
It's the same as marine/marauder for terrans.
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WOW hopefully mods are awake today because I'm not used to see so much unreasonnable QQ on tl's forums. Lots of people are overreacting to small changes like roach nerf but remember that Blizzard devs are trying to balance the game, they are not trying to kill Zerg.
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it's hilarious how some people are actually complaining that protoss "got nerfed". It's just an exploit fix!
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who is QQ ? i thought we were all disscussion our opion on the newest patch, and the possible pros and cons that come with it?
mostly the con of late game when you choose a heavy roach army that is now shrunk drastically
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Why are people so excited about the Ultralisk change? I dont see any change the would make me choose a Ultralisk over a Broodlord.. Unless they make Ultralisk able to fly over my Hydras spit small mini Ultralisks that draws auto fire
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Protoss 4-5 warpgate push is even stronger now ;D
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EPT
