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Skill level difference between US and Asia server - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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stork4ever
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1036 Posts
May 14 2010 03:44 GMT
#61
ahh one guy's experience and now US is full of noob scrubs that have to read the description of each unit they are trying to build with an apm of 15 (apm of 300 if one includes eating/drinking/texting at the same time).

WAAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
New Zealand291 Posts
May 14 2010 03:51 GMT
#62
On May 14 2010 09:11 3clipse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:32 Strykjarnet wrote:
On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:
On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:
On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating.


Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean.


wrong.

Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there.


http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2

"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another."

Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik.


I don't know why I bother, but...

Ratings are accurate measures of skill. You play matches vs the bnet population at large, not only with those in your division. One's division has no bearing on rating. One's division does have a bearing on rank, as being in a new division or one with weaker/inactive players makes it easy to obtain high ranks with a low rating.

In summary:

Rank is dependent on rating and division. Divisions are arbitrarily constructed, rendering rank useless.

Rating is independent of division and is drawn from an increasingly large pool of players (as you play more games).


TBH I thought like you.. but that is a direct quote from blizzard you are argueing with (atleast I think it is havent clicked link).
Windblade
Profile Joined July 2009
United States161 Posts
May 14 2010 03:53 GMT
#63
the cannon cheese on desert oasis is kinda old...i did that myself on the map b/c i hate it so much
Khalleb
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1909 Posts
May 14 2010 03:54 GMT
#64
On May 14 2010 12:53 Windblade wrote:
the cannon cheese on desert oasis is kinda old...i did that myself on the map b/c i hate it so much

why not just tumb it down ?
Liquid'Nony: "I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok."
Wings
Profile Joined January 2010
United States999 Posts
May 14 2010 04:00 GMT
#65
I'm actually going to go against the tide here.

I think the US has one important advantage over the Koreans (and over Asia). Community.

In Asia, everyone's playing, everyone has their own clans, their own things, etc.

In the US, many of the top players and minds convene together... whether it be at TL, over some other place, top US minds are sharing what they know.

Sure, Koreans will play more. But everyone has gotta take advantage of all the knowledge being dropped by all the pros we have here at TL. It's one way you're going to be able to keep up with the Koreans. Learn, because learning from other people's mistakes is faster than learning from your own. That's what school is for... and I think people have proved school is pretty effective.
The probability of Kim Carrier getting all those predictions wrong is similar to the probability Flash loses a TvT. Kim Carrier MUST BE a genius. His only big mistake... STORK.
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
May 14 2010 04:00 GMT
#66
I'm a ~1500 plat on us server and I found some different builds on the asia server that threw me off but usa toss players are better than asia toss players imo. The micro is the best on the asia server but I started playing on the eu server a couple days ago and wow their build orders are solid. It's my favorite server now and I was surprised how good the euros are. The only thing is their micro sucks and they don't scout and adjust to my builds enough. I think the skill level overall isn't as big as some people make it out to be. I'd say if I played 1k games on each server I'd have a similiar rating level.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
rotinegg
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 04:02:33
May 14 2010 04:01 GMT
#67
So my friend, a 1650 rating platinum toss on US server, has flown to korea and played on the ASIA server. He went 1-4 in placement matches and is getting his ass raped in bronze, very similar story to OP. I am joining him on May 19th to go back home, and am trembling in anticipation. I am a 1200~1700 (1600~1700 before reset, sitting at 1210 now with 19-13 rec) platinum zerg player on US, and have a feeling that I will get manhandled in korea. Only time will tell, and I will be sure to report on TL how it feels.
Translator
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
May 14 2010 04:03 GMT
#68
Is the US server that horrible? How are the differences EU/US or EU/Asia?
here i am
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
May 14 2010 05:20 GMT
#69
I'm platinum rank 30-40'ish when i played on US, mostly playing on asia now due to latency issues (i'd really rather play on US or EU so i could talk to people or get practice partners )
And the lower leagues of asia are so much harder then the lower leagues of EU and US. I dont know about platinum, but i assume its at least a bit harder, because im in silver and playing silver players and maintain less then 50% winrate and it feels much harder then playing platinum players on the US/EU servers
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
May 14 2010 05:25 GMT
#70
On May 14 2010 12:44 stork4ever wrote:
ahh one guy's experience and now US is full of noob scrubs that have to read the description of each unit they are trying to build with an apm of 15 (apm of 300 if one includes eating/drinking/texting at the same time).



Yeah gotta love anecdotes. As far as I'm concerned this thread is pointless until the top koreans play the top EU/US players and rape them. I would believe that asia has a larger abundance of good players and therefore a more balanced playing field, but as far as being better than US or EU i dunno.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
May 14 2010 05:32 GMT
#71
On May 14 2010 12:51 WAAA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 09:11 3clipse wrote:
On May 14 2010 03:32 Strykjarnet wrote:
On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:
On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:
On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating.


Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean.


wrong.

Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there.


http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2

"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another."

Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik.


I don't know why I bother, but...

Ratings are accurate measures of skill. You play matches vs the bnet population at large, not only with those in your division. One's division has no bearing on rating. One's division does have a bearing on rank, as being in a new division or one with weaker/inactive players makes it easy to obtain high ranks with a low rating.

In summary:

Rank is dependent on rating and division. Divisions are arbitrarily constructed, rendering rank useless.

Rating is independent of division and is drawn from an increasingly large pool of players (as you play more games).


TBH I thought like you.. but that is a direct quote from blizzard you are argueing with (atleast I think it is havent clicked link).


Honestly, rating is a much better judge of skill than ranking, but they're both only so good. The best judge of skill is looking at rating and win %. For example, I am like 2050 right now, and so is nony, but he absolutely wrecks me PvP. Similarly, OneSmile and masq are both around 2050 also, but masq is much much better, at least at TvP. It also really depends on the MU though. I have a positive record against all the top zergs I've played so far other than zelniq, but I get destroyed whenever I play like nony, qxc, nhqne, etc.
www.infinityseven.net
calvinL
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada416 Posts
May 14 2010 05:37 GMT
#72
On May 13 2010 15:55 eXNewB wrote:
ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least)


Not a single active broodwar progamer with the exception of idra has switched over yet, and none of the proteams have sc2 divisions yet as far as i know
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
May 14 2010 05:38 GMT
#73
On May 14 2010 14:37 calvinL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2010 15:55 eXNewB wrote:
ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least)


Not a single active broodwar progamer with the exception of idra has switched over yet, and none of the proteams have sc2 divisions yet as far as i know


Plus the progamers weren't much better in the first few years of BW anyway... Elky and some others were just as strong as like every korean progamer for a long time.
www.infinityseven.net
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 05:49:48
May 14 2010 05:48 GMT
#74
On May 13 2010 16:40 Art_of_Kill wrote:
its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill

To be honest, top guys especially those who are former Korean Starcraft progamers in Asian server are much better.

by.Fantasy
Khadgars
Profile Joined March 2010
United States38 Posts
May 14 2010 06:57 GMT
#75
This discussion is pretty ridiculous. In Asia, Star Craft is king, so the vast majority of the players that get into beta already have a huge understanding of RTS and SC in general.

In comparison, in the US tons of people are playing Star Craft for the first time, some its the first RTS they played (tons of WoW recruits for sure).

I think we all agree that the top players in all three zones are about equal, and debating which area has the better "average" base is meaningless at this point since the pool from which we are judging is too small at the moment. Have to wait until a decent time after release to understand the relationship properly.

BADSMCGEE
Profile Joined March 2010
United States94 Posts
May 14 2010 07:02 GMT
#76
9 out of every ten games i play on asia i get cheesed...i go 10 gate vs every matchup to circumvent this...if you can hold the cheese of a bunch of morons then you will be platinum...asia = new chile
Khadgars
Profile Joined March 2010
United States38 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 07:06:00
May 14 2010 07:04 GMT
#77
On May 14 2010 13:01 rotinegg wrote:
So my friend, a 1650 rating platinum toss on US server, has flown to korea and played on the ASIA server. He went 1-4 in placement matches and is getting his ass raped in bronze, very similar story to OP. I am joining him on May 19th to go back home, and am trembling in anticipation. I am a 1200~1700 (1600~1700 before reset, sitting at 1210 now with 19-13 rec) platinum zerg player on US, and have a feeling that I will get manhandled in korea. Only time will tell, and I will be sure to report on TL how it feels.


A lot of the plat players in the US are not really plat players. Here in the US the placement matches can set you up with players who have never played the game before or are still very new to it. If you get lucky you can skate your way into plat easily with out being that good. That doesn't happen in Korea because every one that has a beta key LOVES star craft.

Like I said, its too early to be talking about the average players. You need to compare apples to apples and the only way to do that is comparing the top players with each other. It's pretty even across EU, NA, Asia.
ScN.gosu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada18 Posts
May 14 2010 07:11 GMT
#78
On May 14 2010 13:00 Wings wrote:
I'm actually going to go against the tide here.

I think the US has one important advantage over the Koreans (and over Asia). Community.

In Asia, everyone's playing, everyone has their own clans, their own things, etc.

In the US, many of the top players and minds convene together... whether it be at TL, over some other place, top US minds are sharing what they know.

Sure, Koreans will play more. But everyone has gotta take advantage of all the knowledge being dropped by all the pros we have here at TL. It's one way you're going to be able to keep up with the Koreans. Learn, because learning from other people's mistakes is faster than learning from your own. That's what school is for... and I think people have proved school is pretty effective.


lol if you watch any of Artossis videos you would know that this could not be farther from the truth. The Koreans dont just spam games and play individually. They share ideas and thoughts as well. I mean the 5 best players for sc2 in korea are living together. I however feel that the Asia server is not harder AT ALL. The quality of the average player may be slightly higher, but still not hard. I mean I get cheesed in Asia plat 8/10 games, I mean its ALWAYS cheese on Asia. So I dont belive there is much difference in skill yet (consedering all of the progamers from bw have not yet switched over).
Comet702
Profile Joined April 2010
China236 Posts
May 14 2010 07:58 GMT
#79
oh,i got a key in US service, but since im living in China. i really hope that i can go back to Asian service and play with all these gosu, esp. Korean!!!
Comet from wfbrood.com
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
May 14 2010 07:59 GMT
#80
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
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