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I have been using an account in US server for a month now, keeping a rank near 20~30 Platinum.
Earlier this week my friend give me a beta key and I made an account, which land me in Asia server. So I start there, and it placed me in Bronze! (Well I did not use my main race in the placement)
So I start to use my main race again in ladder matches; Man the bronze league (or may be my opponents are silver) are so strong! My win rate is under 50% and I am just Bronze in Asia.
In US server, bronze level may just be learning what is FE and a proper build order.
In Asia.... man... they are already thinking how to bunker rush you/ air harass and out-macro you. I got cannon rush in Desert Oasis and he build the pylon below the cliff near my mineral lines!
I am pretty sure if those "bronze" level players in Asia migrate to US, they will all be top 20 in platinum....
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I`m a crummy gold player on US and I`m in Asia now about to start playing. I am clenching my buttocks in anticipation.
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Doesn't sound that much different from US to be honest. The lower leagues are filled with a lot of bunker/canon/zergling/roach rush cheeses. You sound like you're just not that good against cheese which is understandable if you've been dealing against standard play for too long.
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I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating.
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Asia will of course have better players.
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I've been having lag issues when I play on the Asian Server. I'll try it some more tomorrow. I got placed Bronze as well and I'm Gold in US. Probably could have got silver, but my micro is non existent on Asia server because of a half second delay on all my actions 
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ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least)
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The difference is really very noticeable... I feel that they have a much more in-depth understanding of the game, including the timing of tech, the counter of each unit and they scout constantly. And that is only bronze/silver level.
I really did not expect that level's player know how to do worker trick to delay enemy expansion, speedling micro and use Raven like a pro. I guess I need to get more serious and treat it like platinum.
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I believe it has been stated by people such as artosis that the asia server has a lot more good players, but that the top level players are all about the same skill among the 3 servers (apart from korean terrans, who are apparently idiots). Korea just has a lot more good players, so where the us has to fill the divisions with players who are learning, korea fills those with players who are actually good.
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Agreed. TBH nobody below 1300 platinum (assuming you've already played 30 or so games) really knows how to play on the US server.
I think the 1750+ players are even with the Korean server.
Also the worse you are, the faster you get better. Lower tier players definitely have improved since the beta came out.
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Well it may also means the ladder system is working, just that US server has too much "new players". I have seen complains where people say Platinum is just a piece of cake and the ladder is not balanced. I guess that problem will disappear once we can move between servers in the real release.
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I would say that US has more newbies because we have more beta keys.
But then Korea does have free SC 2 Beta on the PC bangs, so, hmm...
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It was the same with ICCUP and playing during Korean hours, but I'm sure it would be more pronouced in SC2. Their understanding of Starcraft and RTS in general is levels above North America.
If you can translate the Korean commentary in Brood War VODs, you will immediately notice a huuuuuuuuuuuge difference between their commentary and anything else. You could watch every commentary on youtube made in the last 5 years and still not gain anywhere near the amount of education contained in a few games with Korean commentators. Their approach to the game is just different and more sophisticated.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
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On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
I lol'ed pretty hard at this. Couldn't have said it better 
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its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill
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I qualified to platinum league pretty easy and going there without single lose. I talk about Asia server ofc.
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In gold silver league Asia server there's many players who can touch US platinum easily
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No offense here, but I first saw that cannon rush on DO ~ a month ago. I think you may be in a rut. Its too easy to find a few strats that work and stick with them, but then your game gets old.
Try something new, and watch more streams and/or replays. If you already do, watch someone else to get different perspectives. Also, try the replay sites.
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On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
OP loses. rofl. I agree entirely. Get platinum and actually play. who cares if they "amazingly!" know how to use workers properly. See what it's like playing the top compared to the "top". Even in America, I find there's a huge difference in the level of play between plat 1500+ (ish) and lower level platinums. This is no comparison at all.
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On May 13 2010 15:26 DarkwindHK wrote:
I have been using an account in US server for a month now, keeping a rank near 20~30 Platinum.
Earlier this week my friend give me a beta key and I made an account, which land me in Asia server. So I start there, and it placed me in Bronze! (Well I did not use my main race in the placement)
So I start to use my main race again in ladder matches; Man the bronze league (or may be my opponents are silver) are so strong! My win rate is under 50% and I am just Bronze in Asia.
In US server, bronze level may just be learning what is FE and a proper build order.
In Asia.... man... they are already thinking how to bunker rush you/ air harass and out-macro you. I got cannon rush in Desert Oasis and he build the pylon below the cliff near my mineral lines!
I am pretty sure if those "bronze" level players in Asia migrate to US, they will all be top 20 in platinum....
That cannon rush isn't an uncommon strat on Desert Oasis in US servers either.
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So you lost vs strats you're not used to seeing... how is that significant? That happened in BW all the time.
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On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
And we all know that anyone who isn't a top player on his server is irrelevant 
If bronze on asia is much better than bronze on US, that means there's less of a difference between plat and bronze, which does say something about the potential to produce large numbers of good players.
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I have an account on both servers, but I play mostly on Asia. I got into gold on the US server (my first five games ever) but only silver on Asia.
Although my experience on the US server is limited, I think that the Asia divisions are on average one level higher than US (so Asia bronze = US silver, Asia silver = US gold). This is just an approximation, but I think the average skill level is definitely higher. Obviously, this doesn't apply at the very top level as other guys have already pointed out.
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Asian players just like to harass you with everything they can think of and that's why new/inexperienced players will have a hard time on Asian server.
Or am I wrong?
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It's getting hard to believe you were ever platinum on US when you say such nooby stuff. Canons on desert oasis that can hit behind mineral lines is like month's old. In fact a lot of zergs, etc, don't put their spawning pool behind their mineral line on desert oasis for just this reason (not to mention with vision any unit can shoot from below and hit it).
And the build up there was based off a terran raven opening that AVILO (a US player) was the first to bring into the terran mainstream. If anything, the koreans copied it off him and NOT the other way around. Avilo was doing this since around patch 3. I've been watching replays from both US/EU/Asia servers since patch 1 and I didn't see any terran do anything like this in the early patches. Avilo's opening can be found here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123717
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On May 13 2010 15:26 DarkwindHK wrote:
I have been using an account in US server for a month now, keeping a rank near 20~30 Platinum.
Earlier this week my friend give me a beta key and I made an account, which land me in Asia server. So I start there, and it placed me in Bronze! (Well I did not use my main race in the placement)
So I start to use my main race again in ladder matches; Man the bronze league (or may be my opponents are silver) are so strong! My win rate is under 50% and I am just Bronze in Asia.
In US server, bronze level may just be learning what is FE and a proper build order.
In Asia.... man... they are already thinking how to bunker rush you/ air harass and out-macro you. I got cannon rush in Desert Oasis and he build the pylon below the cliff near my mineral lines!
I am pretty sure if those "bronze" level players in Asia migrate to US, they will all be top 20 in platinum....
It's just kind of cheesy there... People just cheese like crazy (especially at lower levels like bronze).
EDIT: I never on play Asia but i'm like top 5 silver I think...
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so i finally played few games on us server ...
went 13-1 1350+ points, every game vs 1600~1800 platin (some of them cryed after game about balances^^, while i played rnd)
its definitively that us server lacks in the width good player, to be honest most of the ~1700 guys i played today would barly make it out of gold on europe and since asia have a bigger width with good player then europe, its no surprise that lower us platin player makes it only into broze league in asia
dont like empty friendlist, so feel free to add me for some games
deutschland.ivan
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On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating.
Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean.
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On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean.
Except #20 in division 108 can be 1300 points, while #20 in division 2 can be 1650. Big difference.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
LOL
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On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean.
wrong.
Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there.
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...And suddenly we realize that platinum is like D+ iCCup anyway.
Props to Incontrol, I lol'd :D
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The asia scrubs are better than the other servers scrubs for sure.
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A lot of the bronze people in US are people who have never played SC1 or quit ages ago. Most of the bronze players in Korea are people who played SC1.
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On May 13 2010 15:26 DarkwindHK wrote:
I have been using an account in US server for a month now, keeping a rank near 20~30 Platinum.
Earlier this week my friend give me a beta key and I made an account, which land me in Asia server. So I start there, and it placed me in Bronze! (Well I did not use my main race in the placement)
So I start to use my main race again in ladder matches; Man the bronze league (or may be my opponents are silver) are so strong! My win rate is under 50% and I am just Bronze in Asia.
In US server, bronze level may just be learning what is FE and a proper build order.
In Asia.... man... they are already thinking how to bunker rush you/ air harass and out-macro you. I got cannon rush in Desert Oasis and he build the pylon below the cliff near my mineral lines!
I am pretty sure if those "bronze" level players in Asia migrate to US, they will all be top 20 in platinum....
that cannon rush is nothing new, but im sure the skill difference is huge... i already notice a difference playing on EU from NA and i can tell there much better
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huummm... I play zerg exclusively for about 3weeks now and:
I'm 1550ish US PLAT and having maximum trouble against Terran
I'm 1620ish ASIA PLAT and having no trouble against Terran only some Zerg players
and I'm around 1200ish EU PLAT and having SUPER HUGE trouble against Terran!
So imo.... EU > US > ASIA at laest for terran players
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that cannon rush is pretty old. it got me once. now i scout differently. haven't lost to it since.
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On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
But american servers have much funnier people!
What is with this obsession about which server is better that some people have? Im not being sarcastic, I honestly don't understand it.
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was playing on the EU server first. plat (100-96 stats)
just made an account on the US server and have 30-12 stats on plat as well.
Overall it feels easier on the US server especially vs Zerg. On Europe I lost most of my late games vs Zerg its much better on US so far.
But I have a better connection in the US and have played less games so it might even out after all.
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someone cannon rushed you... oh my god no way! How could that be possible!
It's not like copper players on the NA servers cannon rush or anything dear god the asia server is so far above us!
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On May 14 2010 00:54 Konsume wrote:
huummm... I play zerg exclusively for about 3weeks now and:
I'm 1550ish US PLAT and having maximum trouble against Terran
I'm 1620ish ASIA PLAT and having no trouble against Terran only some Zerg players
and I'm around 1200ish EU PLAT and having SUPER HUGE trouble against Terran!
So imo.... EU > US > ASIA at laest for terran players
With recent buff by patch, terran is really doing good in Korean tourneys. Marine Tank Raven composition is really strong against Protoss recently.
BTW, Korean terrans HATES doublings though.
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In the US platinum players seem to be people who watch streams and competitive matches as well as play a fair number of games and have some very basic build orders or cheese. In Asia, those are all things I would expect a larger % of the population to be doing. None of this makes Asia "better," it makes Asia have more interested SC players.
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There are just fewer absolute newbies on Asia right now, as well as more very very good players. There's still a middle ground like their was in BW.
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On May 13 2010 15:39 TheDominator wrote:
Asia will of course have better players.
lol
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The difference between Asian players and US players in my opinion is that Asian players tend to think and analyse their strats more than US players.
Although it's merely a game, they percieve it as a type of challenge.
In addition, maybe its just that Asian players have a very different way of playing that US players can't integrate in their systems? I'm just saying. RWJ
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obv every server has excellent players but as a whole no question asia is the best bc of their records, smarts, apm, and work ethic
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I'm not sure there's any point at all to these threads. There are so many factors you can't really account for that could influence your perception of different skill levels of the servers that debating it seems unproductive.
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[QUOTE]On May 13 2010 16:40 Art_of_Kill wrote:
its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill[/QUOTE
I think in Width of player waist size is US > EU >ASIA
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On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean. wrong. Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2
"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another."
Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik.
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On May 13 2010 15:39 TheDominator wrote:
Asia will of course have better players.
Agreed
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On May 14 2010 02:32 Persev wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 16:40 Art_of_Kill wrote:
its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill I think in Width of player waist size is US > EU >ASIA
rofl
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On May 14 2010 00:54 Konsume wrote:
huummm... I play zerg exclusively for about 3weeks now and:
I'm 1550ish US PLAT and having maximum trouble against Terran
I'm 1620ish ASIA PLAT and having no trouble against Terran only some Zerg players
and I'm around 1200ish EU PLAT and having SUPER HUGE trouble against Terran!
So imo.... EU > US > ASIA at laest for terran players
This is very interesting and exactly what i thought as well. I dont play much myself anymore but i watch alot of replays.
And i think there is a pretty big skill gap between EU and US/Asia in the upper plat regions.
There are obviously some exceptions but overall when it comes to top players and making less mistakes EU seems clearly ahead when you watch the reps of tournament wins and top ladder games.
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i thought its a fact now that us server is the weakest?
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[QUOTE]On May 14 2010 02:32 Persev wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 13 2010 16:40 Art_of_Kill wrote:
its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill[/QUOTE
I think in Width of player waist size is US > EU >ASIA
[/QUOTE]
only because of the bear zerg who is capable of benching several nerds at any one time.
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On May 14 2010 08:48 AmstAff wrote:
i thought its a fact now that us server is the weakest?
which sorta makes u respect the US gosus who manage to hang with EU gosus without proper ladder practice.
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On May 14 2010 03:32 Strykjarnet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean. wrong. Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another." Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik.
I don't know why I bother, but...
Ratings are accurate measures of skill. You play matches vs the bnet population at large, not only with those in your division. One's division has no bearing on rating. One's division does have a bearing on rank, as being in a new division or one with weaker/inactive players makes it easy to obtain high ranks with a low rating.
In summary:
Rank is dependent on rating and division. Divisions are arbitrarily constructed, rendering rank useless.
Rating is independent of division and is drawn from an increasingly large pool of players (as you play more games).
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On May 14 2010 00:54 Konsume wrote:
huummm... I play zerg exclusively for about 3weeks now and:
I'm 1550ish US PLAT and having maximum trouble against Terran
I'm 1620ish ASIA PLAT and having no trouble against Terran only some Zerg players
and I'm around 1200ish EU PLAT and having SUPER HUGE trouble against Terran!
So imo.... EU > US > ASIA at laest for terran players
im sorry but i find this very hard to believe
you're nearly top 250ish on asia
yet you're hardly top 800 on US
(far fewer people play on beta on asia servers, about ~40 plat divisions as opposed to the 120+ on US)
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ahh one guy's experience and now US is full of noob scrubs that have to read the description of each unit they are trying to build with an apm of 15 (apm of 300 if one includes eating/drinking/texting at the same time).
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On May 14 2010 09:11 3clipse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 03:32 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean. wrong. Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another." Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik. I don't know why I bother, but... Ratings are accurate measures of skill. You play matches vs the bnet population at large, not only with those in your division. One's division has no bearing on rating. One's division does have a bearing on rank, as being in a new division or one with weaker/inactive players makes it easy to obtain high ranks with a low rating. In summary: Rank is dependent on rating and division. Divisions are arbitrarily constructed, rendering rank useless. Rating is independent of division and is drawn from an increasingly large pool of players (as you play more games).
TBH I thought like you.. but that is a direct quote from blizzard you are argueing with (atleast I think it is havent clicked link).
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the cannon cheese on desert oasis is kinda old...i did that myself on the map b/c i hate it so much
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On May 14 2010 12:53 Windblade wrote:
the cannon cheese on desert oasis is kinda old...i did that myself on the map b/c i hate it so much
why not just tumb it down ?
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I'm actually going to go against the tide here.
I think the US has one important advantage over the Koreans (and over Asia). Community.
In Asia, everyone's playing, everyone has their own clans, their own things, etc.
In the US, many of the top players and minds convene together... whether it be at TL, over some other place, top US minds are sharing what they know.
Sure, Koreans will play more. But everyone has gotta take advantage of all the knowledge being dropped by all the pros we have here at TL. It's one way you're going to be able to keep up with the Koreans. Learn, because learning from other people's mistakes is faster than learning from your own. That's what school is for... and I think people have proved school is pretty effective.
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I'm a ~1500 plat on us server and I found some different builds on the asia server that threw me off but usa toss players are better than asia toss players imo. The micro is the best on the asia server but I started playing on the eu server a couple days ago and wow their build orders are solid. It's my favorite server now and I was surprised how good the euros are. The only thing is their micro sucks and they don't scout and adjust to my builds enough. I think the skill level overall isn't as big as some people make it out to be. I'd say if I played 1k games on each server I'd have a similiar rating level.
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United States1719 Posts
So my friend, a 1650 rating platinum toss on US server, has flown to korea and played on the ASIA server. He went 1-4 in placement matches and is getting his ass raped in bronze, very similar story to OP. I am joining him on May 19th to go back home, and am trembling in anticipation. I am a 1200~1700 (1600~1700 before reset, sitting at 1210 now with 19-13 rec) platinum zerg player on US, and have a feeling that I will get manhandled in korea. Only time will tell, and I will be sure to report on TL how it feels.
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Is the US server that horrible? How are the differences EU/US or EU/Asia?
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I'm platinum rank 30-40'ish when i played on US, mostly playing on asia now due to latency issues (i'd really rather play on US or EU so i could talk to people or get practice partners )
And the lower leagues of asia are so much harder then the lower leagues of EU and US. I dont know about platinum, but i assume its at least a bit harder, because im in silver and playing silver players and maintain less then 50% winrate and it feels much harder then playing platinum players on the US/EU servers
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On May 14 2010 12:44 stork4ever wrote:
ahh one guy's experience and now US is full of noob scrubs that have to read the description of each unit they are trying to build with an apm of 15 (apm of 300 if one includes eating/drinking/texting at the same time).
Yeah gotta love anecdotes. As far as I'm concerned this thread is pointless until the top koreans play the top EU/US players and rape them. I would believe that asia has a larger abundance of good players and therefore a more balanced playing field, but as far as being better than US or EU i dunno.
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On May 14 2010 12:51 WAAA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:11 3clipse wrote:On May 14 2010 03:32 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 14 2010 00:36 BlasiuS wrote:On May 13 2010 22:47 Strykjarnet wrote:On May 13 2010 15:39 samuraibael wrote:
I dont know why people persist in using rank as a measure. Its utterly meaningless. Just use rating. Rank is rating sorted. If you use rank it means you are using rating as a measure. I don't understand what you mean. wrong. Rank is rating sorted by division. Big difference there. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23766800567&sid=5000&pageNo=2"As far as comparison across divisions it's certainly something we've considered but there are issues, such that the rankings in one division don't directly translate to the other divisions. So you couldn't compare division 10 to division 48 and compare one player's points to another." Rating is internal to each division, you can't compare rating between divisions. Rating is a bad way to compare players. Rank says your place in your division, same thing as your rating does. The only stats Blizzard gives us which are useful are your wins and loses afaik. I don't know why I bother, but... Ratings are accurate measures of skill. You play matches vs the bnet population at large, not only with those in your division. One's division has no bearing on rating. One's division does have a bearing on rank, as being in a new division or one with weaker/inactive players makes it easy to obtain high ranks with a low rating. In summary: Rank is dependent on rating and division. Divisions are arbitrarily constructed, rendering rank useless. Rating is independent of division and is drawn from an increasingly large pool of players (as you play more games). TBH I thought like you.. but that is a direct quote from blizzard you are argueing with (atleast I think it is havent clicked link).
Honestly, rating is a much better judge of skill than ranking, but they're both only so good. The best judge of skill is looking at rating and win %. For example, I am like 2050 right now, and so is nony, but he absolutely wrecks me PvP. Similarly, OneSmile and masq are both around 2050 also, but masq is much much better, at least at TvP. It also really depends on the MU though. I have a positive record against all the top zergs I've played so far other than zelniq, but I get destroyed whenever I play like nony, qxc, nhqne, etc.
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On May 13 2010 15:55 eXNewB wrote:
ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least)
Not a single active broodwar progamer with the exception of idra has switched over yet, and none of the proteams have sc2 divisions yet as far as i know
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On May 14 2010 14:37 calvinL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 15:55 eXNewB wrote:
ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least) Not a single active broodwar progamer with the exception of idra has switched over yet, and none of the proteams have sc2 divisions yet as far as i know
Plus the progamers weren't much better in the first few years of BW anyway... Elky and some others were just as strong as like every korean progamer for a long time.
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On May 13 2010 16:40 Art_of_Kill wrote:
its not a secret that the width of good player is ASIA > EU > US, but the top player on all the three server are pretty close in skill
To be honest, top guys especially those who are former Korean Starcraft progamers in Asian server are much better.
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This discussion is pretty ridiculous. In Asia, Star Craft is king, so the vast majority of the players that get into beta already have a huge understanding of RTS and SC in general.
In comparison, in the US tons of people are playing Star Craft for the first time, some its the first RTS they played (tons of WoW recruits for sure).
I think we all agree that the top players in all three zones are about equal, and debating which area has the better "average" base is meaningless at this point since the pool from which we are judging is too small at the moment. Have to wait until a decent time after release to understand the relationship properly.
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9 out of every ten games i play on asia i get cheesed...i go 10 gate vs every matchup to circumvent this...if you can hold the cheese of a bunch of morons then you will be platinum...asia = new chile
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On May 14 2010 13:01 rotinegg wrote:
So my friend, a 1650 rating platinum toss on US server, has flown to korea and played on the ASIA server. He went 1-4 in placement matches and is getting his ass raped in bronze, very similar story to OP. I am joining him on May 19th to go back home, and am trembling in anticipation. I am a 1200~1700 (1600~1700 before reset, sitting at 1210 now with 19-13 rec) platinum zerg player on US, and have a feeling that I will get manhandled in korea. Only time will tell, and I will be sure to report on TL how it feels.
A lot of the plat players in the US are not really plat players. Here in the US the placement matches can set you up with players who have never played the game before or are still very new to it. If you get lucky you can skate your way into plat easily with out being that good. That doesn't happen in Korea because every one that has a beta key LOVES star craft.
Like I said, its too early to be talking about the average players. You need to compare apples to apples and the only way to do that is comparing the top players with each other. It's pretty even across EU, NA, Asia.
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On May 14 2010 13:00 Wings wrote:
I'm actually going to go against the tide here.
I think the US has one important advantage over the Koreans (and over Asia). Community.
In Asia, everyone's playing, everyone has their own clans, their own things, etc.
In the US, many of the top players and minds convene together... whether it be at TL, over some other place, top US minds are sharing what they know.
Sure, Koreans will play more. But everyone has gotta take advantage of all the knowledge being dropped by all the pros we have here at TL. It's one way you're going to be able to keep up with the Koreans. Learn, because learning from other people's mistakes is faster than learning from your own. That's what school is for... and I think people have proved school is pretty effective.
lol if you watch any of Artossis videos you would know that this could not be farther from the truth. The Koreans dont just spam games and play individually. They share ideas and thoughts as well. I mean the 5 best players for sc2 in korea are living together. I however feel that the Asia server is not harder AT ALL. The quality of the average player may be slightly higher, but still not hard. I mean I get cheesed in Asia plat 8/10 games, I mean its ALWAYS cheese on Asia. So I dont belive there is much difference in skill yet (consedering all of the progamers from bw have not yet switched over).
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oh,i got a key in US service, but since im living in China. i really hope that i can go back to Asian service and play with all these gosu, esp. Korean!!!
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What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible.
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On May 14 2010 16:59 guitarizt wrote:
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible.
Yep. We all want to cuddle and love each other.
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well sorry i didn't really have time to read every post. But couldn't it be possible, due to public beta in PC bangs, that someone who's not so good got placed bronze and then someone of a higher skilllevel played on that account?
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I find the lack of reading comprehension in this thread disturbing...
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Huh wuts every1's obsession with Asian server? They aren't at our level yet for some reason. I have actually gotten 150 pts higher or so in the platinum Asian server playing the same amount of games I have in the USA server lol.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 14 2010 16:58 Comet702 wrote:
oh,i got a key in US service, but since im living in China. i really hope that i can go back to Asian service and play with all these gosu, esp. Korean!!!
You can ask Blizzard to transfer you I think.
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On May 14 2010 18:22 TzTz wrote:
well sorry i didn't really have time to read every post. But couldn't it be possible, due to public beta in PC bangs, that someone who's not so good got placed bronze and then someone of a higher skilllevel played on that account?
i bet this is a lot of the reason
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it seems everyone's trying to discredit darkwin. i thought his pt was great. I'm glad he made a threat.
it'd also mean asia's gold or low platinum players could probably take us's top platinum players. :-)
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On May 14 2010 16:59 guitarizt wrote:
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible.
We also have alot of sleepover parties at the other guy's base, zergcuddling all day
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On May 14 2010 16:59 guitarizt wrote:
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible.
Does getting a "gg" mean that much to you? seriously?
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On May 13 2010 15:55 eXNewB wrote:
ASIA because they have teams over there that PAY kids to play all day... you don't see that in north america (for this game at least)
...
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On May 15 2010 03:44 bellaisa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 16:59 guitarizt wrote:
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible. Does getting a "gg" mean that much to you? seriously?
Is it so hard to believe? You're not playing a machine after all even if you have no real contact with the other person so it's nice to acknowledge that fact. After playing pretty much any other game/sport you would walk over and shake your opponents hand at the end of a match, so why does it suddenly become so hard to show that basic level of respect and type in gg? Is it not 'real' because it's online?
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I think adjusting to a differently developed metagame could be a part of it aswell, but I dare say that gaming is even more... uh, hardcore? In asia. Taken a lot more seriously I should say, so no surprise.
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those koreans are born with 200apm u know
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hawt damn, i need an asian key!
lol jk i would probably get raped. It would be interesting to see how we silly americans compare though. 
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United States1719 Posts
On May 14 2010 13:01 rotinegg wrote:
So my friend, a 1650 rating platinum toss on US server, has flown to korea and played on the ASIA server. He went 1-4 in placement matches and is getting his ass raped in bronze, very similar story to OP. I am joining him on May 19th to go back home, and am trembling in anticipation. I am a 1200~1700 (1600~1700 before reset, sitting at 1210 now with 19-13 rec) platinum zerg player on US, and have a feeling that I will get manhandled in korea. Only time will tell, and I will be sure to report on TL how it feels.
SO yea, i did pretty well in placement, went 3-2 and got placed in plat, but then i went on a huge losing streak and got demoted to gold at 6-29. yea, asia is much harder lol dont feel like playing the beta again
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On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief!
This is why iNcontroL is a quality poster lol. Its damn true guys. I jumped on a stream the other day wheere TT1 was gold and everyone cried oh no asia is hard TT1 is gold and he's top of his plat in US. While he was alt tabbing and checking the forums during load times so he can see when US server is up lol.
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from what i've seen i think theres an obvious skill difference. how much this applies to the top level players i'm not sure, but i'm sure you'll consistently find a lot more good players in asia. i saw ttone play a few days ago on his stream. he was in gold league and he lost about 3/4 the of 4 matches i saw him play O.o
whether he was trying out builds or doing some other practice i don't think that's something that's gonna happen often on the US server
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yeah i got into platinum on the US server and i didnt have a clue about counters / what to do. Literally i won all of my first 5 games. Plat isnt hard to get in US server.
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This is very relative.
But i really belive that in Asia they have more knowledge of SC2.
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The simple fact is that a lot of the core mechanics of SC1: macro, micro, worker production, expanding, timings, harassment, etc... translate very well in SC2. SC1 is still played regularly in Korea and has been for the past 10+ years. Outside of Korea you had a relatively small population of pro-gamers and people playing on private ladders.
I played SC1 from release to maybe a year past patch 1.08. That's a lot of years of not playing starcraft and I think a vast majority of US players fall into that catagory, hell most probably never even played SC1.
Conclusion:
I'd be shocked if the Asia server didn't have a higher average skill level considering the popularity of SC1 there. The Korean culture is saturated with SC1 and even if you don't play you know about the game. The average US beta player was 5-8 years old when SC1 came out and probably never played a single game. The average skill level of the lower ranks will even out as time goes on.
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On May 15 2010 04:08 Bane_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 03:44 bellaisa wrote:On May 14 2010 16:59 guitarizt wrote:
What day said about all the euros being friendly I've found to be true. There's so many bm people on the us server and I haven't had one person on asia server gg yet, but people seem more mannered and I get way more gg's on the euro server which is why I'll be playing there as much as possible. Does getting a "gg" mean that much to you? seriously? Is it so hard to believe? You're not playing a machine after all even if you have no real contact with the other person so it's nice to acknowledge that fact. After playing pretty much any other game/sport you would walk over and shake your opponents hand at the end of a match, so why does it suddenly become so hard to show that basic level of respect and type in gg? Is it not 'real' because it's online?
Why is the opponent typing gg considered respectful? It was originally "good game". In the era where players typed it out, would you consider an opponent who simply abbreviated it to be "bad mannered," because he didn't take the time to type the full words? What about the koreans/other asians that type ww or such, is that "disrespectful," because they don't take the time to type out Gs?
Seriously the fact that it is considered bad manners to not type gg is rediculous, simlpy leaving the game in a timely fashion is good enough. What about those people that stay around with lifted buildings, and then right before you kill their last CC, they type gg. Are those players better mannered than players who leave right away when they've clearly lost?
typing gg is just a formality, and "bad manner" or "good manner" are stupid terms, as manners in society are different depending on where you come from.
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I think for a while, the top players on all servers were somewhat equal, but the average scrub on EU/US was far below the average Asia player. Although the latter is probably still true, i think the EU vs Asia matches are showing that Asia are slowly but surely pulling ahead at the top level.
On May 13 2010 16:12 willeesmalls wrote:
Also the worse you are, the faster you get better. Lower tier players definitely have improved since the beta came out.
This is so true. I was Copper, and have fought my way up to Plat/Diamond in ~150 1v1's. Since getting there though i've seen very little improvement in my play, it seems you have to have extreme attention to detail to really improve.
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in starcraft 1 half of game strats have been developed by foreigners.
but after years those mass gamers of korea start to become the top players.
how many of u know the earlier days of top canadian player Grrrr... in korea. he used to be a super pro. but in years his mouse and keyboard skills were not good enough to match with koreans. Chinese ppl have awesome skill on table tennis. thats same with koreans playing computer games. their eye-brain-hand combination is genetically better than any other races. if you have seen a korean progamer playing live (i dont mean replay neither steam) u can understand that you are actually NO MATCH to them. its like putting god on computer and make him play starcraft. that was how crazy they look like.
sc2 is still the same. Sooner or later when ppl relaise the best way to play it, it will up to mouse&keyboard skill and who is smarter comptetion just like sc1 was.
now the coming 2 years can be ours (foreigners). but rest will be dominated by koreans that is for sure...
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Typing gg is basic common sense, just like a handshake.Why is this so hard to understand?
Not typing gg is called a ragequit and is bad-mannered.
I never understood why some people are so stubborn about such a simple thing.
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On May 24 2010 04:39 Cheezy wrote:
Typing gg is basic common sense, just like a handshake.Why is this so hard to understand?
Not typing gg is called a ragequit and is bad-mannered.
I never understood why some people are so stubborn about such a simple thing.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Really, just imagine after a soccer game, players line up to give each other handshakes but the losers just completely ignore the winners and walk past them to the locker room. It's just bad-mannered.
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I should have wrote that out better. I didn't mean that not saying gg is bm, I just meant that there's a ton of bm people on us server who will tell you to leave or tell you you only won with cheese, ect and the not saying gg thing was separate. I went through a stage where I was practicing early pools and the only people who sometimes gave me a gg when they lost were on eu server. I don't consider the people who didn't say gg bm I just thought it was interesting that I did get some gg's from the euros even if they lost to a 6 pool.
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On May 24 2010 04:39 Cheezy wrote:
Typing gg is basic common sense, just like a handshake.Why is this so hard to understand?
Not typing gg is called a ragequit and is bad-mannered.
I never understood why some people are so stubborn about such a simple thing.
That's your opinion. There are different customs in Asia.
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On May 24 2010 04:56 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2010 04:39 Cheezy wrote:
Typing gg is basic common sense, just like a handshake.Why is this so hard to understand?
Not typing gg is called a ragequit and is bad-mannered.
I never understood why some people are so stubborn about such a simple thing. That's your opinion. There are different customs in Asia.
? Koreans always gg in pro matches, etc.
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On May 24 2010 03:38 Legendary- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 16:30 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
LET IT BE KNOWN!
The great debate: Which server has a stronger bronze division: ASIA
what a relief! This is why iNcontroL is a quality poster lol. Its damn true guys. I jumped on a stream the other day wheere TT1 was gold and everyone cried oh no asia is hard TT1 is gold and he's top of his plat in US. While he was alt tabbing and checking the forums during load times so he can see when US server is up lol.
u obviously never played on asia to see how much the lag affects your gameplay, you lag while the game speed is perfectly fine for your opponent
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On May 24 2010 04:57 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2010 04:56 buhhy wrote:On May 24 2010 04:39 Cheezy wrote:
Typing gg is basic common sense, just like a handshake.Why is this so hard to understand?
Not typing gg is called a ragequit and is bad-mannered.
I never understood why some people are so stubborn about such a simple thing. That's your opinion. There are different customs in Asia. ? Koreans always gg in pro matches, etc.
Yeah but it's the internets so I don't expect much. Still there was a different vibe with bw on iccup but I know this isn't bw. I have a tendency to go bm orb/lalush style but it's still refreshing to seel well mannered people and I'm not bm unless someone says something that tilts me first.
But to stay on topic, if you're good at sc and you don't rely on some cheesy bo to win then the I'd say the us server is the weakest of the three but the differences are small. There's some weird tendencies by people on different servers though like the harass and micro is much better on asia and on eu their build orders seem more crisp to me. The eu people didn't seem as proactive about scouting so I'd try to sneak a third base somewhere more often than usual. Maybe they just don't have as many maphackers as us server.
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or maybe it's just because you're playing on a laggy server while they're playing on a local server. hmm, did you ever think of that possibility? and the fact that TONS of people, including myself, who never really played many RTS are playing it here and learning the ropes, while starcraft is like korea's halo/call of duty
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i'm diamon on asia and it's rough as hell. the main problem in diamond is that the strategies are so vastly different than in US so i have to relearn every race. my US playstyle was a problem vs asia, though i've gotten alot of surprise wins of people unused to US style.
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EPT
