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"Terran is the best race" - Tester video interview - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Origine
Profile Joined January 2010
France167 Posts
May 25 2010 15:49 GMT
#321
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
https://twitter.com/thomAufresne
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
May 25 2010 15:59 GMT
#322
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote:
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-


Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..

Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.

The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.

I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
Christmastaflex
Profile Joined May 2010
United States35 Posts
May 25 2010 16:01 GMT
#323
lu_cid United States. May 11 2010 10:47.
nice interview.

Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
[/wiki][/quote][/spoiler]
Have you watched any of the SC2 Europe vs Asia? I believe Asia hasn't lost a series yet.
All you know about me is what I've sold you.
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 16:12:30
May 25 2010 16:04 GMT
#324
On May 26 2010 00:20 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 00:11 lolreaper wrote:
On May 26 2010 00:03 Skyze wrote:
I really think it should be as simple as this...

TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.

Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.

bullshit he picks terran because its his best race , he beats even top terrans in tvts how dare u say he wins in tvz only because of advantage (do u think he plays tvt's because he feels he has racial advantege)
you are such a whinny cry baby, everywhere i see u r posts u complain about zerg being weak and underpowered even tho all recent tournaments are dominated by zergs


and every post you make is crying how bad terrans are.. You are a fucking terran crybaby, stop defending your race when its VERY OBVIOUS they are the strongest, as the 16 pages here by non-biased people + every other fucking thread.

TLO picks terran because it gives him the best chance of winning. END OF STORY. Did I say he ONLY plays TvZ?? No, He can play any matchup, like TvT too, because he was a RANDOM PLAYER.. but he knows terran will win him games in the other two matchups easy, and he can play TvT decent enough to win.

Even more korean pros are switching to terran, as Artosis has said, and terrans have won every major tournament in the month of May. Show me where tournaments were "dominated" by zergs?? Just about every tournament in recent memory that has been listed on TL.net, besides the HDH has been won by a terran.

PS; Im a PROTOSS player.. why would I care if zerg is weak? I never said zerg is weak EVER, I think they will be the scariest race once the game has actual balance, but TvZ is retarded right now everyone knows that, as does TLO which is why hes beating Freedom and Check, players way better than him, with relative ease.


you are so full of shit its unbelievable, tlo already said his best race is terran and thats why he picks it in most games
check is nowhere as good as tlo i have no idea where did u get that shit from, im not surprised tho everything u write is based on pure theorycrafting, white-ra won with check 2-0 while tlo managed to beat him everytime he rolled zerg, btw hdh final was between ra and idra i have no idea where do u see terran there LOL
so many flaws in your post, you dont know recent results so you decided to make them up, basically everything you said is wrong and you whole opinion is based on artosis article whos known from being biased and everything he says should be taken with grain of salt

just to let you know how zergs fare in recent tournaments because u seem to be completely clueless in that matter (quote is not mine sadly i forgot who wrote that ;/)
Look at the ASM Cup 2 for example. 13/32 were zerg, then 10/16, then 7/8 and lastly a complete shutout at 4/4. (It's worth noting that only 1 of those 13 zergs had a stint as a bw pro so these are mostly players who don't have the Artosis seal of approval)

Here in this World Cup we had 13/32 and now 9/16 are zerg. (4 of 13 were ex pros here)

Do people seriously believe that results like these are due to a skill gap between those players who chose zerg and those who chose protoss and terran? Really?

Edit - If Tester, Rainbow, Spunky, Silver and other strong players switched to zerg and Cool, Freedom, Thewind, Sirasoni, SoO and so on switched to protoss/terran would we really see a big shift in the racial balance?



ps FYI .im random player and probably played zerg as main race more than any other race
xLethargicax
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States469 Posts
May 25 2010 16:06 GMT
#325
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote:
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-


Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..

Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.

The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.

I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.


Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.
Gnaix
Profile Joined February 2009
United States438 Posts
May 25 2010 16:13 GMT
#326
On May 11 2010 12:30 weeeee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 12:11 RatherGood wrote:
I think he's absolutely right about Terran. People are just playing it completely wrong. Tanks are strong. Stop rushing for Starports, Christ. It hurts to watch players mindlessly base all their strategies around such fragile units that are so easily counterable.


Fragile units that are easily counterable? Sounds like tanks vs protoss. Vs prtosss if you don't have an early starport you die to voidrays. So its not like its a choice.

Did you not watch the interview? The point is not to make an early starport and put pressure on the protoss, like FD. Basically, if you see them going void ray rush, they're gonna die to your marine and tank force. If they're not, you pull back and defend. This hard counters void rays so you don't have to make an early starport.
one thing that sc2 has over bw is the fact that I can actually manage my hotkeys
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
May 25 2010 16:14 GMT
#327
well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.

This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
zee
Profile Joined January 2010
201 Posts
May 25 2010 16:21 GMT
#328
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote:
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-


Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..

Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.

The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.

I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.

The thing is that medivacs cant heal and pick up/drop of units at the same time
BillyMole
Profile Joined March 2010
United States118 Posts
May 25 2010 16:22 GMT
#329
In point of fact, we don't have a large enough statistical sampling of good players to be making any judgment calls even about who are the really good players, let alone balance calls from that data. There have been a decent number of tournaments, sure, but not enough to identify more than a dozen or so good players. All we have is conjecture, and unfortunately, much, if not most of that conjecture, is from people who's skill level is nowhere near pro.

That said, with the current metagame in mind, I completely agree with Tester that the Terrans are doing it wrong. I can only speak from a ZvT perspective, but in that matchup, it appears that most Terrans are still obsessed with a base MMM army, with maybe a smattering of tanks. I can tell you with complete honesty, as a Zerg playing a Terran, when I see he's going mass MMM, I quietly thank him for the easy win. MMM has nothing on the new style Zerg, where Roaches play a minor part, if any part at all. TLO, and a couple of other terrans, appear to be the only ones who get it. As Zerg, I fear Mech, but only Mech executed correctly. It is not uncounterable, since I can still abuse their lack of mobility, but it is far, far harder to pull a win than it is vs MMM.
FALAPARK
Profile Joined January 2010
United States224 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 16:25:02
May 25 2010 16:23 GMT
#330
On May 26 2010 01:14 Skyze wrote:
well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.

This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.

LIAR, first of all marine balls are useless because balenings and collosus counter this very easily. i say this because i was and currently i am #1 in my division and i am a terran pplayer as well so dont give me this crap, you probably used tanks, or something to back them up because marine balls are useless.
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 16:25:07
May 25 2010 16:23 GMT
#331
Bad players are Bad.

Shouldnt make assumption posts about balance.

Regardless, I find it abit sad that people cant look beyond the current "metagame" and not see potential. There is immense potential for all races currently which will shift things when they are discovered and ofc this will happen throughout the beta - discluding balance changes.
Mada Mada Dane
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 25 2010 16:26 GMT
#332
Are there really that many players (particularly protoss players) out there that still have not figured out how to deal with an MMM ball? What in the world have you been doing all beta long?

I can't say much regarding ZvT, but I haven't seen anything in PvT that strikes me as being particularly unbalanced or unfair. In fact, I think it's a pretty fun and even matchup right now. Also, I wouldn't make much out of terran success at the highest levels of the game right now. For one, whatever imbalance there may be at that level of play probably won't make a hill of beans worth of difference at the average player's level. Second, the game is still very young and the dynamics are changing with every patch. Have a little patience.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 16:32:51
May 25 2010 16:31 GMT
#333
On May 26 2010 01:06 xLethargicax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote:
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote:
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-


Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..

Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.

The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.

I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.


Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.


Doens't change the fact, that a Protoss army usually needs more micro. What do you micro in your MMM ball after using Stim? I guess micro units back und forth, focuse important units, perhaps putting some in a Medivac. You have to do that with the Protoss army, too, but on top u have to use FF, be really carefull with your Collossi, need well placed Storms etc.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 25 2010 16:36 GMT
#334
I'd like to find a random player who actually thinks protoss players are harder "apm wise" or micro/macro w/e than terran.

Protoss players seem to think that spamming forcefields is super skillful. Hell, I haven't seen many players do it effectively like i think white ra with the checker board [50% block out a concave, 50% block retreat of the remaining units combined with the two block forcefields
UXUXUX
XUXUXU
X = forcefields U = units.

Zerg is mostly about moving around the screen all the time with queen spewing overlord creeping creep tumours and unit positioning. [not that many people do more than 1a]
Not too much to do on a given screen so its not so much "apm"

I don't think ZvT is imbalanced I just think that people need to abuse drops and maybe nydus worms for retreat a lot more against mech play. It's not an easy way to play but i think mech is only really strong in head up battles which is not what you want to be comitting to as zerg.
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
May 25 2010 16:41 GMT
#335
On May 26 2010 01:36 Slayer91 wrote:
I'd like to find a random player who actually thinks protoss players are harder "apm wise" or micro/macro w/e than terran.

Protoss players seem to think that spamming forcefields is super skillful. Hell, I haven't seen many players do it effectively like i think white ra with the checker board [50% block out a concave, 50% block retreat of the remaining units combined with the two block forcefields
UXUXUX
XUXUXU
X = forcefields U = units.

Zerg is mostly about moving around the screen all the time with queen spewing overlord creeping creep tumours and unit positioning. [not that many people do more than 1a]
Not too much to do on a given screen so its not so much "apm"

I don't think ZvT is imbalanced I just think that people need to abuse drops and maybe nydus worms for retreat a lot more against mech play. It's not an easy way to play but i think mech is only really strong in head up battles which is not what you want to be comitting to as zerg.


Agreed - any BW Terran player who's come to SC2 is going to laugh at the notion of Toss being "harder". Even funnier is a poster actually suggested that blink "micro" is tough. I mean - wow.
With no power comes no responsibility?
Spidermonkey
Profile Joined April 2010
United States251 Posts
May 25 2010 16:43 GMT
#336
On May 26 2010 01:23 FALAPARK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 01:14 Skyze wrote:
well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.

This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.

LIAR, first of all marine balls are useless because balenings and collosus counter this very easily. i say this because i was and currently i am #1 in my division and i am a terran pplayer as well so dont give me this crap, you probably used tanks, or something to back them up because marine balls are useless.


Yea see no one cares about your rank or divison. Not being mean but they typicaly hold no weight around here.
~ Richard Trahan
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
May 25 2010 16:44 GMT
#337
Artosis, this might seem far-fetched .... but can you add some subtitle for when the korean translator is speaking? i cannot seem to understand him unless i up my volume really high
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
May 25 2010 16:46 GMT
#338
On May 26 2010 01:31 CruelZeratul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 01:06 xLethargicax wrote:
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote:
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote:
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-


Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..

Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.

The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.

I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.


Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.


Doens't change the fact, that a Protoss army usually needs more micro. What do you micro in your MMM ball after using Stim? I guess micro units back und forth, focuse important units, perhaps putting some in a Medivac. You have to do that with the Protoss army, too, but on top u have to use FF, be really carefull with your Collossi, need well placed Storms etc.

Requires more micro does not equate imbalance. PvT in SC1 is far more mechanically demanding for the Terran player than the Protoss player. That doesn't make the matchup imbalanced.
Moderator
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
May 25 2010 16:48 GMT
#339
On May 26 2010 01:44 MindRush wrote:
Artosis, this might seem far-fetched .... but can you add some subtitle for when the korean translator is speaking? i cannot seem to understand him unless i up my volume really high


I'd download it as an FLV and play it in something like MPC (where it normalizes volume). I do agree though, even with higher volume, a mic would really help in future interviews so we aren't straining to hear the translation.
With no power comes no responsibility?
lew
Profile Joined April 2009
Belgium205 Posts
May 25 2010 17:05 GMT
#340
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote:
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.


Against an MMM ball you use STORM (yes yes emp... but you can feedback and SPREAD your army), you use collossae (which destroy MMM) and you destroy his marauders with immortals.

You will NEVER hear 1 good protoss player whine about MMM.
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