For all the new people in our community, here are some things about Tester: Tester has been a Protoss professional gamer in SC1 for years and years and years. He's been on the proleague roster (plays on TV) for most of his career. He has qualified for multiple Ongamenet Star Leagues, and has recently quit to become a SC2 progamer. He has won 2 PlayXP tours and a GosuCoaching weekly tournament, all without losing a game. He got 2nd to Cool[fOu], and ex-professional Zerg player in the biggest SC2 LAN to date, the PlayXP BrainBox tournament (which I made a video about 2 weeks ago or so).
Is there anywhere i can get a hold of a bunch of Testers replays? I'm really struggling to find some as the search function on most of the sc2replay sites either comes up with nothing, or, just in general sucks. =[
On May 11 2010 10:58 Ftrunkz wrote: Is there anywhere i can get a hold of a bunch of Testers replays? I'm really struggling to find some as the search function on most of the sc2replay sites either comes up with nothing, or, just in general sucks. =[
Since he played in the GosuCoaching tourney there should be plenty of replays available. I believe he played under Hwanni.scforall.
he meant that terran has the most potential, but currently no player has been able to play terran to it fullest potential yet....
i agree with him, current terran trends does not fully utilise the potential of siege tanks, their damage output is way much higher than SC1, the thing is that marauders are being overused that kinda blocked the development of terran strategies atm...
Interesting interview as usual. I noticed that Terrans have mostly switched to heavy marine openings on EU so far, so it was good to hear the Kor perspective.
t is easily the best says toss. Good terran say protoss is the best race. Zerg says they are the weakest. Random players say random is random. Shocking news at 11
On May 11 2010 11:02 Shizuru~ wrote: he meant that terran has the most potential, but currently no player has been able to play terran to it fullest potential yet....
i agree with him, current terran trends does not fully utilise the potential of siege tanks, their damage output is way much higher than SC1, the thing is that marauders are being overused that kinda blocked the development of terran strategies atm...
Gas cost going from 100 from SC1 to 125 in SC2 didn't help either. Not to mention no Vultures + Spider Mines made Terran Mech play completely different from SC1.
On May 11 2010 11:13 lu_cid wrote: Tbh i had to lol when I heard tester's couter to fast void rays. Seriously 4 marines and a viking? Good luck not getting rolled...
I can tell you haven't tried it?
the better terran players have been capable of defending well with it, 1 bunker with marines and a viking vs void ray tech will put the toss more behind than you will be.
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. Even on these boards, opinions are highly conflicted from what I've seen. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
On May 11 2010 11:15 Azarkon wrote: Well, just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work when a Korean pro is behind the micro...
I'll believe it when I see it.
And what happens when you go for a fast port opening and the toss goes robo and chronos out a couple of immos? Just don't see it happening. Gretorp's build is the best solution IMO.
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
Yes he did, but wasn't that before the immortal nerf?
In any case, you can't expect Blizzard to have the best idea of balance at the highest levels. I mean, how many pro-gamers do they have working for them?
Why does Artosis always say in some other videos, "Of the people I've talked to on the Asia server everyone pretty much agrees that Idra is the best Zerg." But then when people are actually interviewed, no one lists him among the best players in Asia?
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
On May 11 2010 11:29 RyanS wrote: Why does Artosis always say in some other videos, "Of the people I've talked to on the Asia server everyone pretty much agrees that Idra is the best Zerg." But then when people are actually interviewed, no one lists him among the best players in Asia?
Because Artosis loves to play up whoever he's got in his focus at the moment? The guy's got a hyperbolic style. That's just the way he is.
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
quite frankly im tired of all these arbitrary statistics being cited by blizzard in general as their main benchmark of whether or not the game is balanced as far as i can tell, they take the statistics from too wide a range of a player pool (rock paper scissors is balanced too if they go solely by this win% benchmark, so its essentially worthless info imo)
they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
On May 11 2010 11:36 NATO wrote: 100% agree. There are no good Terran players, so Blizzard just makes the race better to make up for their noobishness.
Very likely that there just were no skilled players to choose the race.
Please don't tell me that you are immune to irony.
Yeah, I think with every patch, time is needed to really gauge balance. As a Terran player, right now the thing really annoying me about Protoss is how good the Sentry abilities are, even with a damage nerf. Terrans have no Melee, so Guardian Shield is really good, and Forcefield is overpowered enough to be an upgrade IMO, but that's just me speaking as a Terran player.
I personally think Terrans have a lot of dynamic options against Zerg in the early-mid game, which is why I think Terrans generally have the advantage against Zerg. Hellions hurt throughout the game and have generally been seen as a strong opener. MMM seem to be the dominant strategy against Zerg, and pre-patch 11, ThorShip as well, with Thors 1-shotting Hydras and 2-shotting Queens, not to mention no need to research Strike Cannons. Not to mention even in the late game, Ravens hurt with Point Defense Drones doing well against Hydras and Hunter Seekers doing well against nearly every Zerg.
With the extended range of Infestors, they saw a bit more play towards the end of the last patch. Mind Controlling Thors was powerful, not to mention Fungal Growth hurt most of the Terran army as well, especially Bio Balls, with Banelings also being a nice combo with it. This gave Zerg a bit more power in the mid-late game.
I guess the whole thing comes down to whether the Terran can expand and keep the Zerg contained. I personally feel that it's a bit harder for Terrans to expand, but then again, I'm not TOO good at this game. TvZ really presents Terrans with a lot of options, but he really does need to keep the Zerg contained. Though Terrans can probably expand more easily to island expansions and that is one advantage they have on maps that have island expansions.
I guess the reason I think PvT is generally even is that neither race seems to have anything that really hurts the other, i.e. "dynamic options" as I call them. Both have strengths in that Protoss probably have the most amount of power in their Micro vs. Zerg's power to expand more easily.
Note: I recognize that I am not the best SC2 player and freely welcome criticisms to my observations. I also recognize I am only specifically pointing out specific abilities rather than the general flow of the battle, etc.
On May 11 2010 11:36 NATO wrote: 100% agree. There are no good Terran players, so Blizzard just makes the race better to make up for their noobishness.
Very likely that there just were no skilled players to choose the race.
Please don't tell me that you are immune to irony.
I assume you're referring to the fact that I am Terran. I switched to Terran when I realized they were OP in an attempt to understand their power, and exploit it, so that hopefully Blizzard notices. Still got some learning to do, so currently I'm just tanking the Terran stats. (Although I still have 80% win vs Toss.)
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
Thanks for the link (I had already googled it) but that really doesn't seem to be how people are using the term in relation to SC. I've heard it used to describe a unit that gets a bunch of kills or a player that uses a particularly risky strategy... this doesn't really fit with the "thug that has made it to the big time" description on urban dictionary.
On May 11 2010 11:34 billyX333 wrote: they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
actually im 1900 elo with about 70% win rate and i know next to nothing about this game and just win by macroing what ever units i feel like building... Very few if any people know how to properly play this game yet and we wont really know if the game is properly balanced on this current patch for atleast a few months.
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
Thanks for the link (I had already googled it) but that really doesn't seem to be how people are using the term in relation to SC. I've heard it used to describe a unit that gets a bunch of kills or a player that uses a particularly risky strategy... this doesn't really fit with the "thug that has made it to the big time" description on urban dictionary.
They're all using it incorrectly, in as much as one can use a slang term incorrectly
For a unit that gets a bunch of kills the similarity is pretty obvious--any unit could die with 0 kills, but a baller unit has hit it big
As for the risky builds, in that context people seem to use it to mean that a player has an abundance of confidence. Or maybe hubris
Don't think about it too hard. The people using the term aren't!
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
quite frankly im tired of all these arbitrary statistics being cited by blizzard in general as their main benchmark of whether or not the game is balanced as far as i can tell, they take the statistics from too wide a range of a player pool (rock paper scissors is balanced too if they go solely by this win% benchmark, so its essentially worthless info imo)
they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
Not really from Blizzard's perspective as they want the game balanced for every skill level.
If the game is perfectly balanced for the top 100 pros and completely imba for the 100,000+ silver, gold and platinum leaguers then it's going to make the game less successful since it will be boring in the leagues that the majority of people play in.
Obviously all of the best players flocked to protoss and zerg and only the biggest fucking retards are playing terran. Clearly this is just some epic nonsense spewed by protoss and zerg players to make themselves feel better about rolling terran so easily. "There just aren't any good terran players yet." Haha, how PATHETIC.
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
Thanks for the link (I had already googled it) but that really doesn't seem to be how people are using the term in relation to SC. I've heard it used to describe a unit that gets a bunch of kills or a player that uses a particularly risky strategy... this doesn't really fit with the "thug that has made it to the big time" description on urban dictionary.
They're all using it incorrectly, in as much as one can use a slang term incorrectly
For a unit that gets a bunch of kills the similarity is pretty obvious--any unit could die with 0 kills, but a baller unit has hit it big
As for the risky builds, in that context people seem to use it to mean that a player has an abundance of confidence. Or maybe hubris
Don't think about it too hard. The people using the term aren't!
True that, I didn't really think about it up until now but someone criticised someone else for using the term incorrectly in this thread and I thought I'd see if anyone actually could throw some light on how it's supposed to be used, if indeed there is a correct usage.
The guy's plan on how to beat a void ray seems legit. I think this was similar to a strategy I used once against the Void Ray build on Desert Oasis, but I never thought twice about it afterwards.
On May 11 2010 12:06 Zergneedsfood wrote: The guy's plan on how to beat a void ray seems legit. I think this was similar to a strategy I used once against the Void Ray build on Desert Oasis, but I never thought twice about it afterwards.
I think that theoretical strat or unitcomp against void rays is pretty unbeatable. Because the void ray has only one option if he runs into that, which is to run away. If the VR decides to go for the Marines, he'll die to the Viking, and vice versa. Though a fully charged VR does rape face and viking's acceleration is slow as shit.
I've recently began playing Terran because I think they have great potential, but mostly because I want to learn them as my favorite unit is the Reaper and I enjoy being a bitch in the early game. :D
I think he's absolutely right about Terran. People are just playing it completely wrong. Tanks are strong. Stop rushing for Starports, Christ. It hurts to watch players mindlessly base all their strategies around such fragile units that are so easily counterable.
I apologize for being new to the scene and therefore while I know who Artosis is, I don't know his personality. Is he generally just really sarcastic? Bitter? Cranky?
I couldn't tell sometimes during the interview if he just held foreigners in contempt, he was just being really sarcastic, or he was just really tired and peeved after the tourney.
The interview overall was pretty decent, though the translator obviously hurts the depth to which you can really address issues. And as others have said, I don't know if it makes any sense to say that if the best players played Terran they'd never be beaten. If these players play in tournaments that dole out money for prizes, why wouldn't they go with the most OP race? If it was truly so good, why would people handicap themselves with inferior races?
I don't agree that Terran are insanely underpowered, not at all. I don't think they're overpowered and just filled with mouthbreathers, either.
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
quite frankly im tired of all these arbitrary statistics being cited by blizzard in general as their main benchmark of whether or not the game is balanced as far as i can tell, they take the statistics from too wide a range of a player pool (rock paper scissors is balanced too if they go solely by this win% benchmark, so its essentially worthless info imo)
they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
Not really from Blizzard's perspective as they want the game balanced for every skill level.
If the game is perfectly balanced for the top 100 pros and completely imba for the 100,000+ silver, gold and platinum leaguers then it's going to make the game less successful since it will be boring in the leagues that the majority of people play in.
lol what? balanced for every skill level?
if its balanced at the highest level of play, then its balanced you cant trace the losses back to bad mechanics/timing/strategy which bad players can work on
if bad players are losing, then they can work on their mechanics/strategy with more time and experience
in the beginning of beta i was about 20% zvp and 90% for other races (it wasnt balancing, it was ME) then i learned what i was doing wrong and what i needed to change and made it my best matchup new players are getting better continuously, making a lot of their early race vs race win% a completely worthless statistic to keep track of this philosophy of balancing for every skill level makes absolutely no sense to me
I watched the interview, and maybe its just me for zoning out at some points of the video, but what reasons does Tester give to back up his claims? I'm sure he has legit reasons, but I just heard a little bit about tanks, but nothing specific. Anyone elaborate? Does he mean tank drop micro/mech pushes/ghost versatility or what?
To Artosis: Can you not make comments that the interviewees won't understand (or comments that won't get translated). Ensuring the interviewees understand everything you say is in a way respecting them more.
Personally as a zerg, mmm armies are so much stronger if the terran would just throw 3-4 siege tanks during the clash, especially if they can focus on my hydras.
Seeing how helion harass is getting countered more and more against zerg FE. Siege tanks are a much better way to go. Wait until bigger maps start to go around, tanks will be horrifying.
Cant wait till Flash (ya the brood war one) lands his hands on sc2 terran.
On May 11 2010 11:34 billyX333 wrote: they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
actually im 1900 elo with about 70% win rate and i know next to nothing about this game and just win by macroing what ever units i feel like building... Very few if any people know how to properly play this game yet and we wont really know if the game is properly balanced on this current patch for atleast a few months.
Not too sure about the whole FD thing vs void ray. If you make voids you generally camp your ramp with sentry, How is an FD going to attack that? I guess it depends on starting positions but I don't understand how you can stop the expansion that toss throws up when your units are forced to guard your main because 2-3 voids are there threatening to bust you up. Also those voids can easily turn back and help defending on most maps.
I got the feeling that maybe Tester was talking about the old void rays as he was saying that koreans were doing it early in beta but not anymore. But they got patched recently to get good against marines.
Note that I'm a random player and have no bias. It just strikes me as almost impossible to push with tanks against void rays and a ground army. Also I find it very easy to just go in with my 2-3 rays if he pushes and burn half of his his scvs while cancling my nexus and sentry turtling the ramp. How is he going to win .5 base vs 1 base?
Void rays also grow in strenght with numbers. If you have like 5 voids and a decent ground army that is SO hard to kill for terran before it totally demolishes anything he has. If he focuses the rays then he'll die to ground and if he just auto attacks my ground then his units will die too fast for the vikings to finish off the rays before everything is dead. Vikings do not kill void rays fast without support.
On May 11 2010 12:11 RatherGood wrote: I think he's absolutely right about Terran. People are just playing it completely wrong. Tanks are strong. Stop rushing for Starports, Christ. It hurts to watch players mindlessly base all their strategies around such fragile units that are so easily counterable.
Fragile units that are easily counterable? Sounds like tanks vs protoss. Vs prtosss if you don't have an early starport you die to voidrays. So its not like its a choice.
On May 11 2010 12:19 Crt wrote: To Artosis: Can you not make comments that the interviewees won't understand (or comments that won't get translated). Ensuring the interviewees understand everything you say is in a way respecting them more.
I just watched the video again, and I noticed something. He said a lot of protoss players were using the void ray at the start of beta. Like, perhaps, before they were buffed? Because at that time yes you could just pump a few marines and be fine...
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
quite frankly im tired of all these arbitrary statistics being cited by blizzard in general as their main benchmark of whether or not the game is balanced as far as i can tell, they take the statistics from too wide a range of a player pool (rock paper scissors is balanced too if they go solely by this win% benchmark, so its essentially worthless info imo)
they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
Not really from Blizzard's perspective as they want the game balanced for every skill level.
If the game is perfectly balanced for the top 100 pros and completely imba for the 100,000+ silver, gold and platinum leaguers then it's going to make the game less successful since it will be boring in the leagues that the majority of people play in.
lol what? balanced for every skill level?
if its balanced at the highest level of play, then its balanced
Thats garbage... if one race takes 200 APM to be used effectively and others don't then most people aren't going to be able to play it no matter how much they practice. Now obviously SC2 is nowhere near that case but it's still important for Blizzard to make sure that all races can be used effectively at all skill levels.
On May 11 2010 12:36 lu_cid wrote: I just watched the video again, and I noticed something. He said a lot of protoss players were using the void ray at the start of beta. Like, perhaps, before they were buffed? Because at that time yes you could just pump a few marines and be fine...
No, he's not talking about at the start of beta. When he's talking about the counter to Void Rays, he says, "Now that siege tanks are really great...." Siege tank buff is recent so he's not talking about pre-buff Void Rays.
On May 11 2010 12:32 Fayth wrote: Terran is actually good...
it is fairly similar to broodwar actually, bio is shit against T and P....
most people are still misplaying T a lot, so am I
Would you say that a mix of bio and mech is the key, or pure mech, against P?
I guess the hp buff to tanks means that Immortals will no longer 3 shot tanks but have to fire 4 times, but +1 weapon will make it 3 shot tanks again...
On May 11 2010 10:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: *haven't watched the video yet*
I think the popular consensus is that Protoss is the best and Terran is either 2nd or 3rd.
uhhh what? what popular consensus are you talking about?
Popular consensus is that Zerg is strongest followed by either Protoss or Terran depending one what race you play.
I guess it really depends on who you ask. I was under the impression that Terrans had the advantage against Zerg, Protoss have the advantage against Terrans, and PvZ was generally even.
I don't know about ZvT, but I'd say PvZ is even and T does well against P.
Didn't Browder say that among US and EU statistics, Protoss > Terran was the heaviest apparent "imbalance"?
quite frankly im tired of all these arbitrary statistics being cited by blizzard in general as their main benchmark of whether or not the game is balanced as far as i can tell, they take the statistics from too wide a range of a player pool (rock paper scissors is balanced too if they go solely by this win% benchmark, so its essentially worthless info imo)
they just need to forget all statistics <1600 plat rating on NA servers they're awful
Not really from Blizzard's perspective as they want the game balanced for every skill level.
If the game is perfectly balanced for the top 100 pros and completely imba for the 100,000+ silver, gold and platinum leaguers then it's going to make the game less successful since it will be boring in the leagues that the majority of people play in.
lol what? balanced for every skill level?
if its balanced at the highest level of play, then its balanced
Thats garbage... if one race takes 200 APM to be used effectively and others don't then most people aren't going to be able to play it no matter how much they practice. Now obviously SC2 is nowhere near that case but it's still important for Blizzard to make sure that all races can be used effectively at all skill levels.
then they should have taken that into consideration when picking a race
some players want a race which is difficult with a high ceiling of potential others want a race with more emphasis on strategy and less on mechanics
this argument still is not making sense to me its hard enough to fully balance the game at the highest level how the hell (and why the hell) are they going to take every skill level into consideration and i still dont understand how a game would be more balanced at the highest of levels and not at lower skill levels
most high gold-low platinum don't really even know standard build orders/strategies/counters why the hell are we even going to consider their win% to balance the game?
It's definetly interesting to hear that terran is definitively the best race from a player who mopped up the gosucoaching circuit. I guess the real question is who is the best terran currently?
terran nr1 race? hows about he prove that by winning all tournaments there are WITH TERRAN NOT PROTOSS... because I see mostly Zergs and Toss in _ALL_ the tournaments. add to that the general oppinion among top players, atleast in EU is that P/Z > T.
also boring interview maybe interview ppl when they r not drunk/tired? minor tip
On May 11 2010 12:59 Diaspora wrote: It's definetly interesting to hear that terran is definitively the best race from a player who mopped up the gosucoaching circuit. I guess the real question is who is the best terran currently?
Hannibal?
And I think everyone arguing that current tourney results show that T is not the best race are missing Tester's point. He says Terran is the best when played by a good player.
CauthonLuck, DeMusliM, Jinro may be all top foreign players, but I don't think they're good by Tester's standards. His example was when SC1 pro-gamers play Terran in SC2, which basically means flawless mechanics and micro.
A Protoss player has no proof, but Terran are the strongest... AND if he could change anything about the game he would make DT and HT come out of the same building. Big surprise. Shoot... why not throw the Robotics Support Bay, HT and DT all in one! That would really rule!
Great questions Artosis. In fact, some of the best questions I think could have possibly been asked. Really good job.
On May 11 2010 12:32 Fayth wrote: Terran is actually good...
it is fairly similar to broodwar actually, bio is shit against T and P....
most people are still misplaying T a lot, so am I
Would you say that a mix of bio and mech is the key, or pure mech, against P?
I guess the hp buff to tanks means that Immortals will no longer 3 shot tanks but have to fire 4 times, but +1 weapon will make it 3 shot tanks again...
I think air is better vs P as of now, banshees + vikings... or I also used this thor + marines + ghost rush that worked fairly well against virtually any P opening, I haven't tried it since thor tweak though, and immortals always had to 4 shot to kill tanks cuz tank has 1 armor... I think? xD
On May 11 2010 13:06 Cast wrote: Someone had to say it. EMP completely destroys protoss and their fancy spells annd zerg has nothing on tanks/rines/rauders.
On May 11 2010 13:03 McCrank wrote: Artosis should definitely go to back to Terran so he can show us all how to play "the best race". Or is it too hard?
Why make a sarcastic comment about Artosis about a statement Tester made...?
On May 11 2010 13:04 MayorITC wrote: CauthonLuck, DeMusliM, Jinro may be all top foreign players, but I don't think they're good by Tester's standards. His example was when SC1 pro-gamers play Terran in SC2, which basically means flawless mechanics and micro.
This point can't be emphasized enough.
Tester said nothing about Terran being generally better than Protoss or Zerg. For all we know, he may think they're weak at lower levels of play (though to be honest, he could probably care less). His specific point was that once they get in the hands of an extremely good player, meaning SC1 progamer caliber, they will be extremely powerful.
By extension, it seems to me that you really can't sum up the Terran's strength in a single unit like the Marauder or the Ghost. Because any bronze league player can take advantage of a shallow advantage like that.
I still want to see a top NA or euro terran use the build avilo was demonstrating (and the build which i've seen top korean terrans use in one variation or another). I have yet to see them really try it, and from my experience, it's incredibly powerful against every toss build i've come up against.
On May 11 2010 13:03 McCrank wrote: Artosis should definitely go to back to Terran so he can show us all how to play "the best race". Or is it too hard?
Why make a sarcastic comment about Artosis about a statement Tester made...?
Awesome interview as always artosis. Actually decided to main Terran for a while earlier today. Will be interesting to see how it goes knowing it has the potential to be the strongest.\ I guess I should find some TvZ replays as I have no idea how to play it. TvP I wanted to experiment with ghost mech anyways so seems like its a good choice.
edit: Hey artosis if you are looking at the thread, any way to sum up what makes T so full of potential?
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
Thanks for the link (I had already googled it) but that really doesn't seem to be how people are using the term in relation to SC. I've heard it used to describe a unit that gets a bunch of kills or a player that uses a particularly risky strategy... this doesn't really fit with the "thug that has made it to the big time" description on urban dictionary.
They're all using it incorrectly, in as much as one can use a slang term incorrectly
For a unit that gets a bunch of kills the similarity is pretty obvious--any unit could die with 0 kills, but a baller unit has hit it big
As for the risky builds, in that context people seem to use it to mean that a player has an abundance of confidence. Or maybe hubris
Don't think about it too hard. The people using the term aren't!
True that, I didn't really think about it up until now but someone criticised someone else for using the term incorrectly in this thread and I thought I'd see if anyone actually could throw some light on how it's supposed to be used, if indeed there is a correct usage.
slang is slang. unless someone says something like, "that dude is so baller" as they observe him shooting an air ball in front of 'the girls,' then they are not incorrect. and even in this case they wouldn't be, since they're most likely just being sarcastic.
slang words have very, very loose definitions and i think that if you thought about it for like 2s you'd find the same thing in australia.
you're not really wrong about how you use it unless, in the midst of a group of people you use a slang term, and everyone looks at you like you're an idiot. then, you probably used it incorrectly.
On May 11 2010 11:05 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: Artosis = Such a baller.
Keep posting sick vids and pounding Korean newbies on Asia
meh stop mis-using the word baller lol
Hey can someone explain the correct usage of the word "baller", obviously it's meaning is different in relation to the SC community than to its original basketball context.
Thanks for the link (I had already googled it) but that really doesn't seem to be how people are using the term in relation to SC. I've heard it used to describe a unit that gets a bunch of kills or a player that uses a particularly risky strategy... this doesn't really fit with the "thug that has made it to the big time" description on urban dictionary.
They're all using it incorrectly, in as much as one can use a slang term incorrectly
For a unit that gets a bunch of kills the similarity is pretty obvious--any unit could die with 0 kills, but a baller unit has hit it big
As for the risky builds, in that context people seem to use it to mean that a player has an abundance of confidence. Or maybe hubris
Don't think about it too hard. The people using the term aren't!
True that, I didn't really think about it up until now but someone criticised someone else for using the term incorrectly in this thread and I thought I'd see if anyone actually could throw some light on how it's supposed to be used, if indeed there is a correct usage.
slang words have very, very loose definitions and i think that if you thought about it for like 2s you'd find the same thing in australia.
I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
No doubt in my mind that if the real flash were to play SC2 Terran, he would rape face.
But that's really just wishful thinking because it ain't going to happen anytime soon. By the time any of the top SC1 korean progamers switch to SC2 we'll be MANY patches ahead of where we are now, so I don't really see Tester's point.
Who cares if in patch 11 or whatever Terran has the greatest potential. What happens if Terran gets nerfed by patch 25 or whenever Flash finally does play SC2? Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?
On May 11 2010 14:15 GreyCone wrote: I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
I think his meaning was "You scout, and if he's rushing Void Rays to the point where he has no defense, you go roll him. If he slowed down his build to incorporate a safe number of stalkers, you bunker up and you'll have time to get Vikings." It works because you scout his army composition and size beforehand.
the strategy he was talking about in tvp. i've been doing this for 2 weeks with good success. on temple its great because u can cliff like crazy with tanks
On May 11 2010 14:15 GreyCone wrote: I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
I think I know what you're talking about, but he's just kidding around.
i love that blizzard's argument against having lurkers was that they would be so "useless" with all the "abundant" detection at tier 3, but dts are tier 3 (talking about the split up templar archives reminded me of this)... it's funny that nobody really argued that when blizzard told us there was too much detection for them to include lurkers... good one browder, good one.
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
I think his meaning was "You scout, and if he's rushing Void Rays to the point where he has no defense, you go roll him. If he slowed down his build to incorporate a safe number of stalkers, you bunker up and you'll have time to get Vikings." It works because you scout his army composition and size beforehand.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.
I am only a gold player but when I do my standard 4 rax fe the void rays come out at about 30 supply and I don't think you would really have a chance of going that build unless you knew before hand that he was doing that. Not maybe if you were going a 3 rax build with gas at 13 you could get the tank out but it would still be close. I think the air usually comes out at about 6:30 minutes, the map would have to be pretty small to get there in time.
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
Ghost nullify immortal shields and cut stalker total hp in half. Tanks then just evaporate them. They do a flat 60 damage to everything in seige mode. In other words, they kill 2 shot stalkers that have been EMPed and can 5 shot immotals that have been EMPed.
Going mech is all about positioning and getting those EMPs off.
On May 11 2010 14:15 tubs wrote: No doubt in my mind that if the real flash were to play SC2 Terran, he would rape face.
But that's really just wishful thinking because it ain't going to happen anytime soon. By the time any of the top SC1 korean progamers switch to SC2 we'll be MANY patches ahead of where we are now, so I don't really see Tester's point.
Who cares if in patch 11 or whatever Terran has the greatest potential. What happens if Terran gets nerfed by patch 25 or whenever Flash finally does play SC2? Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?
Because he was asked a question, and he answered it. See that's what you do when you're interviewed. Not like he sits on a forum all day whining about shit like 90% of the people here do. He just answered a question.
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
I think his meaning was "You scout, and if he's rushing Void Rays to the point where he has no defense, you go roll him. If he slowed down his build to incorporate a safe number of stalkers, you bunker up and you'll have time to get Vikings." It works because you scout his army composition and size beforehand.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.
I am only a gold player but when I do my standard 4 rax fe the void rays come out at about 30 supply and I don't think you would really have a chance of going that build unless you knew before hand that he was doing that. Not maybe if you were going a 3 rax build with gas at 13 you could get the tank out but it would still be close. I think the air usually comes out at about 6:30 minutes, the map would have to be pretty small to get there in time.
Isn't Tester's suggestion to push out like you would with FD, with marines out of ONE barracks, and a a tank from a factory? I don't see how this has to do 4rax or 3rax builds off 1 base.
This is exactly how i feel, terrans have the most potential with the recent changes. Good to hear an educated opinion on this matter.
On May 11 2010 14:15 GreyCone wrote: I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
Watch any professional talk about the things he does to a bunch of rooks, he has every right to act elitist. In artosis case elitism isn't even slightly annoying, I believe you have to be really insecure to accuse him of acting the way he does. Artosis hasn't changed and he's exactly the man that we all love.
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
I think his meaning was "You scout, and if he's rushing Void Rays to the point where he has no defense, you go roll him. If he slowed down his build to incorporate a safe number of stalkers, you bunker up and you'll have time to get Vikings." It works because you scout his army composition and size beforehand.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.
I am only a gold player but when I do my standard 4 rax fe the void rays come out at about 30 supply and I don't think you would really have a chance of going that build unless you knew before hand that he was doing that. Not maybe if you were going a 3 rax build with gas at 13 you could get the tank out but it would still be close. I think the air usually comes out at about 6:30 minutes, the map would have to be pretty small to get there in time.
Isn't Tester's suggestion to push out like you would with FD, with marines out of ONE barracks, and a a tank from a factory? I don't see how this has to do 4rax or 3rax builds off 1 base.
Not sure he didn't really say what build just that you should lol and use tanks and marines and a viking. I doubt you can get all that out before they can get the void rays though.
On May 11 2010 13:04 MayorITC wrote: CauthonLuck, DeMusliM, Jinro may be all top foreign players, but I don't think they're good by Tester's standards. His example was when SC1 pro-gamers play Terran in SC2, which basically means flawless mechanics and micro.
This point can't be emphasized enough.
Tester said nothing about Terran being generally better than Protoss or Zerg. For all we know, he may think they're weak at lower levels of play (though to be honest, he could probably care less). His specific point was that once they get in the hands of an extremely good player, meaning SC1 progamer caliber, they will be extremely powerful.
By extension, it seems to me that you really can't sum up the Terran's strength in a single unit like the Marauder or the Ghost. Because any bronze league player can take advantage of a shallow advantage like that.
I'm a little confused, are we saying that because T, relative to the other two races, is top heavy in regards to its effectiveness and skill its balance shouldn't get reevaluated? Who is honestly going to get excited about a game with pro-play that has one race mopping the floor with the other two? A lot of players, including myself, have a long way to go before we're justified in jumping out of our seats and calling imba, but if Tester says it's unbeatable at that level, that's a red flag for sure.
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
I think his meaning was "You scout, and if he's rushing Void Rays to the point where he has no defense, you go roll him. If he slowed down his build to incorporate a safe number of stalkers, you bunker up and you'll have time to get Vikings." It works because you scout his army composition and size beforehand.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your question.
I am only a gold player but when I do my standard 4 rax fe the void rays come out at about 30 supply and I don't think you would really have a chance of going that build unless you knew before hand that he was doing that. Not maybe if you were going a 3 rax build with gas at 13 you could get the tank out but it would still be close. I think the air usually comes out at about 6:30 minutes, the map would have to be pretty small to get there in time.
Isn't Tester's suggestion to push out like you would with FD, with marines out of ONE barracks, and a a tank from a factory? I don't see how this has to do 4rax or 3rax builds off 1 base.
Not sure he didn't really say what build just that you should lol and use tanks and marines and a viking. I doubt you can get all that out before they can get the void rays though.
On May 11 2010 14:15 tubs wrote: No doubt in my mind that if the real flash were to play SC2 Terran, he would rape face.
But that's really just wishful thinking because it ain't going to happen anytime soon. By the time any of the top SC1 korean progamers switch to SC2 we'll be MANY patches ahead of where we are now, so I don't really see Tester's point.
Who cares if in patch 11 or whatever Terran has the greatest potential. What happens if Terran gets nerfed by patch 25 or whenever Flash finally does play SC2? Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?
Because he was asked a question, and he answered it. See that's what you do when you're interviewed. Not like he sits on a forum all day whining about shit like 90% of the people here do. He just answered a question.
I guess you don't get it either. Let me dumb it down a bit for ya. If somebody asks you a question during an interview like "what do you think the strongest race in the game would be if multi-tentacled APM happy fairies played the game?"
Well, you could answer "durrrr... if multi-tentacled fairies played the game then terran has the most potential."
Or, you could answer "Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?"
tubs, what are you arguing? Obviously people are talking about the current patch, because it completely changed the game balance. Terran right now is the strongest race hands down, siege tanks and thors in particular make zvt impossible. Nobody is doing mech builds yet, probably 2-3 decent players even tried it. All the "top" terrans that we've seen recently (cauthonluck, strelok etc) kept doing same old marauder marine play. I've seen tank heavy play from morrow, but he couldn't execute and he was still using many marauders there. All you need is a solid transition and a decent macro, then it's downhill.
On May 11 2010 14:15 tubs wrote: No doubt in my mind that if the real flash were to play SC2 Terran, he would rape face.
But that's really just wishful thinking because it ain't going to happen anytime soon. By the time any of the top SC1 korean progamers switch to SC2 we'll be MANY patches ahead of where we are now, so I don't really see Tester's point.
Who cares if in patch 11 or whatever Terran has the greatest potential. What happens if Terran gets nerfed by patch 25 or whenever Flash finally does play SC2? Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?
Because he was asked a question, and he answered it. See that's what you do when you're interviewed. Not like he sits on a forum all day whining about shit like 90% of the people here do. He just answered a question.
I guess you don't get it either. Let me dumb it down a bit for ya. If somebody asks you a question during an interview like "what do you think the strongest race in the game would be if multi-tentacled APM happy fairies played the game?"
Well, you could answer "durrrr... if multi-tentacled fairies played the game then terran has the most potential."
Or, you could answer "Why speculate about shit that just can't happen?"
Or, this is patch eleven, not patch twenty five, and Tester was talking about really hard-core, high caliber players (which exist, believe it or not), not your fantastical gaming fairy-squid.
I guess it doesn't really matter. If it is in fact as imba as he says it is, it'll come out in time, which I guess is your point.
Your point articulated without sounding like a jack-ass.
Korean trends have changed quite a bit, at least at the very top level. While I can't say things certainly about everything, the one thing that is for sure is that Zerg domination was over 2 weeks ago or more
^ Yes, and the point of Tester's argument is that he's not basing it on the current meta-game, he's basing it on what he projects the future meta-game to be. We'll see if he's right, I guess.
I agree on his point of view very much. I main toss, but when I play Terran I feel like I have so many options to go during a game. I feel like there are so many ways I can attack, turtle, control, contain, drop, double drop, nuke....There are a lot of options I like vs all MUs. So I really think Terran is the strongest race if you use all the units to their absolute perfect skill. Of course, that isn't me at all, but Terran potential is just through the roof, much more than Zerg or Protoss at least, in my opinion.
All this talk of trends made me super pumped for the game to FINALLY be out so we can have millions playing and so we can see the best of all races play (good sample sizes).
I like how the SC2 scene in Korea still has this mysterious veil over it, hard to compare/watch players and such. Ups the anticipation for an international showdown :D
Blizzard used statistics to balance the game and statistics never lie. I am sure they have enough math geniuses in there that know how to take the skill factor into account so don't even get start blaming the bad players for skewing the numbers. Funny how we see a lot of P say T is the strongest race and the reason T is not winning against P is because of bad players are playing T. Unless you have some facts to back up that reasoning then please just shut it. How the hell do you know that T are losing because of their skills not because of the race?
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
Well in the early game the marines are a great counter to the immortals and later on the terran can get EMP to instantly take away the immortals' shield
On May 11 2010 14:47 robopork wrote: I'm a little confused, are we saying that because T, relative to the other two races, is top heavy in regards to its effectiveness and skill its balance shouldn't get reevaluated? Who is honestly going to get excited about a game with pro-play that has one race mopping the floor with the other two? A lot of players, including myself, have a long way to go before we're justified in jumping out of our seats and calling imba, but if Tester says it's unbeatable at that level, that's a red flag for sure.
You misinterpreted me. I wasn't saying that balance shouldn't be re-evaluated. It was mainly directed at those people who come into this thread saying "He's right, Terran is overpowered" and give some Silver League anecdotal example to go along with it. That anecdotal example likely has nothing to do with why Terran would be extremely strong at the top levels of play, nor do the cries of the Marauder or Ghost or whatever being imbalanced in XYZ matchup (especially since the Marauder is a unit that doesn't get that much better with micro/positioning/game sense).
Basically, if one top player is saying that an extremely strong player would be able to take advantage of Terran, it's not likely to mean that Silver-level Terrans are going to be able to start tearing up everything based on racial imbalance. Nor is it going to be for some simply-explainable reason that a Silver-level player could come up with after playing the game for 3 weeks.
Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Terran is strong they just have more precise unit combos and have more defined counter to things, just like in sc1 terran is the most technical race. The truth is siege tanks never really sucked, people just didn't bother to find good timings/combos with them. I personally think blizzard should lay off the balance patches for a bit and start taking a real close look at the balance/meta-game for a month instead of all these little changes that might just complicate things further
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Well. Tester.. has a LOT of weight in what he says, being a progamer. He understands balance more than people who can't even beat easy zerg/protoss on the US platinum server.
Not to mention Brat_OK and Lucifron doesnt seem to be complaining how horrible Terran is, as they dominate in europe (bratOK just won that tourney)
I'm gonna be releasing some detailed videos on voidray and this particular terran build in a few days with me and my friend playing loads and LOADS of games of this build showing how strong it is ^^
On May 11 2010 14:14 Fizban140 wrote: How does a tank push work against protoss? I don't play T but can't they just use immortals and stalkers with blink?
Well in the early game the marines are a great counter to the immortals and later on the terran can get EMP to instantly take away the immortals' shield
Well but what do you do if your Protoss doesnt go for early Immortals but gets Colossi instead? You are screwed then and hiding the tech is easy enough. Massive numbers of Marines can EASILY be pushed away by forcefields, so the Protoss gets to annihilate half the Marines and retreat to regenerate Shields and then take out the other half. Marines are good, but if you cant reach the opponent they are dead useless.
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Well. Tester.. has a LOT of weight in what he says, being a progamer. He understands balance more than people who can't even beat easy zerg/protoss on the US platinum server.
Not to mention Brat_OK and Lucifron doesnt seem to be complaining how horrible Terran is, as they dominate in europe (bratOK just won that tourney)
Yea, Lucifron isn't complaining, he just takes protoss and wins vs Terran rofl
He doesn't have a LOT of weight because he didn't play terran enough. It is totally ridicoulus how every toss and zerg player thinks that terran players doesn't know how to play a game. Logic which says "there aren't terran players in top -> there are no good terran players" is so wrong in unbalanced beta. Everyone started playing at the same time, there are mostly same number of players in every race, and still, no one knows how to play 1 race? Isn't that at least a little bit suspicous?
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Well. Tester.. has a LOT of weight in what he says, being a progamer. He understands balance more than people who can't even beat easy zerg/protoss on the US platinum server.
Not to mention Brat_OK and Lucifron doesnt seem to be complaining how horrible Terran is, as they dominate in europe (bratOK just won that tourney)
Yea, Lucifron isn't complaining, he just takes protoss and wins vs Terran rofl
He doesn't have a LOT of weight because he didn't play terran enough. It is totally ridicoulus how every toss and zerg player thinks that terran players doesn't know how to play a game. Logic which says "there aren't terran players in top -> there are no good terran players" is so wrong in unbalanced beta. Everyone started playing at the same time, there are mostly same number of players in every race, and still, no one knows how to play 1 race? Isn't that at least a little bit suspicous?
Im not sure entirely but from what I've heard about the history of starcraft, it took years before anyone knew how to play protoss to the point that before that happened, pro gaming teams wouldn't even accept many protoss players.
On May 11 2010 17:08 tenpromicro wrote: awesome stuff! who is that dude interpreting? he's adding all these statements that tester never actually said..
It's Hwanni!!
now re-translate if you so desire i wouldn't mind reading the different translations
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Well. Tester.. has a LOT of weight in what he says, being a progamer. He understands balance more than people who can't even beat easy zerg/protoss on the US platinum server.
Not to mention Brat_OK and Lucifron doesnt seem to be complaining how horrible Terran is, as they dominate in europe (bratOK just won that tourney)
Yea, Lucifron isn't complaining, he just takes protoss and wins vs Terran rofl
He doesn't have a LOT of weight because he didn't play terran enough. It is totally ridicoulus how every toss and zerg player thinks that terran players doesn't know how to play a game. Logic which says "there aren't terran players in top -> there are no good terran players" is so wrong in unbalanced beta. Everyone started playing at the same time, there are mostly same number of players in every race, and still, no one knows how to play 1 race? Isn't that at least a little bit suspicous?
Im not sure entirely but from what I've heard about the history of starcraft, it took years before anyone knew how to play protoss to the point that before that happened, pro gaming teams wouldn't even accept many protoss players.
The same was kinda true of Terran. Pre-Boxer, Terran wasn't very strong in PL. After people got better APM and such Terran became much more dominant. Now Terran is probably the strongest race in terms of stats and win percentage in the PL (Flash anybody?).
On May 11 2010 15:57 positron. wrote: Blizzard used statistics to balance the game and statistics never lie. I am sure they have enough math geniuses in there that know how to take the skill factor into account so don't even get start blaming the bad players for skewing the numbers. Funny how we see a lot of P say T is the strongest race and the reason T is not winning against P is because of bad players are playing T. Unless you have some facts to back up that reasoning then please just shut it. How the hell do you know that T are losing because of their skills not because of the race?
Because Tester plays Terran himself. He's been off-racing as Terran a lot and obviously he's not having many troubles if he feels that Terran is the strongest race. Because Tester is exposed to Terran players a lot better than the ones in the foreign scene so he has a better gauge of races being played at their full potential.
Because Protoss and Zerg players are swamed with former pro-gamers and current pro-gamers while Terran players are made up of former "good" wc3 and SC2 players.
I mean no offense, but LucifroN and DeMusliM were never tops in WC3. White-Ra, Idra and Nony were all arguably top foriegn SC player at 1 point or another.
What's your evidence that it's a racial issue and not a player-skill one?
On May 11 2010 15:57 positron. wrote: Blizzard used statistics to balance the game and statistics never lie. I am sure they have enough math geniuses in there that know how to take the skill factor into account so don't even get start blaming the bad players for skewing the numbers. Funny how we see a lot of P say T is the strongest race and the reason T is not winning against P is because of bad players are playing T. Unless you have some facts to back up that reasoning then please just shut it. How the hell do you know that T are losing because of their skills not because of the race?
Because Tester plays Terran himself. He's been off-racing as Terran a lot and obviously he's not having many troubles if he feels that Terran is the strongest race. Because Tester is exposed to Terran players a lot better than the ones in the foreign scene so he has a better gauge of races being played at their full potential.
Because Protoss and Zerg players are swamed with former pro-gamers and current pro-gamers while Terran players are made up of former "good" wc3 and SC2 players.
I mean no offense, but LucifroN and DeMusliM were never tops in WC3. White-Ra, Idra and Nony were all arguably top foriegn SC player at 1 point or another.
What's your evidence that it's a racial issue and not a player-skill one?
have u watched yesterdays hasuobs vs bratok ? do u think if bratok with his macro and micro played toss any terran would stand a chance? i mean even bratok himself wouldnt do shit as T considering hasuobs was holding his ground and every game was increadibly close even tho he never build more than 6 gates and had 1,5k++ minerals even at 8 min mark. (he even admited that he was being outplayed badly).
And did you watch the video? I'm not the one saying that Terran is the best race. Tester, someone who just shitted all over the foreign SC2 competition by going undefeated in the GosuCoaching Weekly #2, says that Terran is the best race.
On the flip side, let's line up the people who are saying Terran is weak: - A bunch of TLers, most who use their own personal experiences in Silver Division to explain how Protoss is overpowered - A few tournament entrees who were decent gamers in other games, but never the top player.
I'm sorry, but I find the ONE person far more credible. Numbers, alone, don't mean anything because I'm sure Tester has far more experience of high-level play than all the naysayers combined. Until Hannibal or someone of equal credibility as Tester says that Terran is weak, logic is going to side with the better SC2 authority.
On May 11 2010 15:57 positron. wrote: Blizzard used statistics to balance the game and statistics never lie. I am sure they have enough math geniuses in there that know how to take the skill factor into account so don't even get start blaming the bad players for skewing the numbers. Funny how we see a lot of P say T is the strongest race and the reason T is not winning against P is because of bad players are playing T. Unless you have some facts to back up that reasoning then please just shut it. How the hell do you know that T are losing because of their skills not because of the race?
Because Tester plays Terran himself. He's been off-racing as Terran a lot and obviously he's not having many troubles if he feels that Terran is the strongest race. Because Tester is exposed to Terran players a lot better than the ones in the foreign scene so he has a better gauge of races being played at their full potential.
Because Protoss and Zerg players are swamed with former pro-gamers and current pro-gamers while Terran players are made up of former "good" wc3 and SC2 players.
I mean no offense, but LucifroN and DeMusliM were never tops in WC3. White-Ra, Idra and Nony were all arguably top foriegn SC player at 1 point or another.
What's your evidence that it's a racial issue and not a player-skill one?
I guess you really have a point here. Since WC3 and SC:BW were the closest comparable games to SC2 I really suppose a huge gap between those players when it comes to experience. Take Idra or Nony for instance, these guys have hell a lot of experience how to play this game. Furthermore, if you glance at Jinro's overall performance on Zotac, Terran is totally awesome and - furthermore A LOT more entertaining to watch.
I mean, in the finals we saw something this likes happens a lot in ladder games - Terran goes a rather aggressive build (tanks and rines), miss-micro's and gets demolished by a 4gate push. If I'm not mistaken Jinro even admited that he could've done much better in that games (overlooking a proxy pylon happens to the best of us , tough his play in previous matches was totally awesome and has shown a lot of strength.
I kinda agree that Blizzard might should take an extra month just to get a deeper look at the details. For instance, phoenix are still rarely used, tough the got a HUGE change. That's because only a few players figured out useful ways to integrate them in a stable build.
b2t: I think strong WC3 give SC2 a nice touch when it comes to their playstyle, tough the "old" BW-way-how-to-handle-the-game of professionals (mainly in Korea, but also foreigners like Jinro, Nony etc.) seem to figure out more stable builds that fit to the strength of the race and are not that "just macro or just micro" intense strategies (for instance - 3 bunker FE build).
Damn great shit Artosis, really enjoying some of your videos. Check out the PlayXP tournament, it's pretty awesome. Some great interviews, and live VODing, etc. Pretty awesome. LOL @ Tester saying that Americans have a weak early game and dies to his harasses
On May 11 2010 14:15 GreyCone wrote: I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
Kind of feel the same way. Though an interesting interview, this really distracted. Partly that's because of what was mentioned earlier in the thread: he gives a lot of extra comments the interviewee won't understand-- will not get translated.
Still an interesting thought and I do believe Terrans are doing better and are learning to adapt more. Too much emphasis was on the fast expand mass marine/marauder build, at least outside of Asia. Party to the dumb 'chobo' and 'newbie' comments too.
On May 11 2010 18:09 MorroW wrote: haha gotta check this out. really happy the koreans r starting to play sc2
watch the PlayXP tournament VOD.. koreans are NOT playing sc2. half the people didn't show up to the tournament and the entire audience was empty.. like i'd say 400 chairs were all empty..
players that dindt live in seoul dind't bother making the trip either.. i dont know if there was a low prize purse or they just don't care yet? who knows.. looks like the lead sponsor was razer so prize money was probably good
On May 11 2010 18:09 MorroW wrote: haha gotta check this out. really happy the koreans r starting to play sc2
watch the PlayXP tournament VOD.. koreans are NOT playing sc2. half the people didn't show up to the tournament and the entire audience was empty.. like i'd say 400 chairs were all empty..
players that dindt live in seoul dind't bother making the trip either.. i dont know if there was a low prize purse or they just don't care yet? who knows.. looks like the lead sponsor was razer so prize money was probably good
I'd say they're playing, but that their TV stations, which control what they're watching and what they're interested in watching, isn't promoting the scene. At the end of the day, it all comes down to KESPA, for reasons better not talked about in this thread.
Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
yes you can, watch Jinro vs Naniwa Zotac final 1st game on incineration zone
I guess Terran is really strong in the right Hands, but maybe it's just a bit too easy for the other races to cheese, timing-attacks etc. Terran is demanding, but it should be more rewarding IMHO, because Protoss for example is so easy to play...
But very good and interesting Interview and IMHO, ppl shouldn't really care that much about balancing the game this early of the development of SC2, but rather think about mechanics and possibilities like highground-mechanic, moving-attack, not very fun to play Units, ridiculous hard.counter-system etc.
who cares about +10Hp on tanks compared to that? xD
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
1 korean protoss progamer says that. That's not a fact if ONE player says that. That's only his opinion.
Well. Tester.. has a LOT of weight in what he says, being a progamer. He understands balance more than people who can't even beat easy zerg/protoss on the US platinum server.
Not to mention Brat_OK and Lucifron doesnt seem to be complaining how horrible Terran is, as they dominate in europe (bratOK just won that tourney)
Yea, Lucifron isn't complaining, he just takes protoss and wins vs Terran rofl
He doesn't have a LOT of weight because he didn't play terran enough. It is totally ridicoulus how every toss and zerg player thinks that terran players doesn't know how to play a game. Logic which says "there aren't terran players in top -> there are no good terran players" is so wrong in unbalanced beta. Everyone started playing at the same time, there are mostly same number of players in every race, and still, no one knows how to play 1 race? Isn't that at least a little bit suspicous?
Im not sure entirely but from what I've heard about the history of starcraft, it took years before anyone knew how to play protoss to the point that before that happened, pro gaming teams wouldn't even accept many protoss players.
ya.. becasue Grrrrrr... wasnt on top at those times...
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
Well one problem would be how easy it would be to warp in dts.. and also how difficult it is to gain access to detectors unlike sc1.. cc's didn't have mules so they were able to use the energy only for scans.. in tvp turrets were extremely viable with that timing and they were cheaper also considering the 8 minerals you get per ore. zerg is a given about detection.. and since unit compositions vary greatly from sc1 as well as many other factors (automin,e 2 gas, etc), putting dts in the templar archives building would be extremely powerful. I'm sure blizzard considered putting dts with the templar archives in the beginning, but soon found that dts would bring more balance into the game if they were harder to get.
and to say that terran has the most potential in the right hands might be a result of the boxer era when he revealed the potential of terran? I wish he would enlighten us by making an example of the potential of terran with his own hands. Also what is the degree of that statement? looking at zerg.. imo There isn't a lot of potential that needs to be found. Blizzard needs to fix zerg a bit to change that.
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
He meant non-siege tanks for the FD push. If your opponent went Voids, you should be able to push into his base and at that point you get Vikings when you see the Void.
Factory - 100 Tank - 125 Star - 100 Viking - 75
Stargate - 150 Void Ray - 150
400 gas versus 300 gas assuming protoss went 0 stalkers/sentries.
He also said that Dark Templars should be an upgrade in high templar archives, instead of a completely seperate building.
Korean Gosus say Zerg is the best. Which is why Artosis and Idra are all playing Zerg, because it allows for a macrostyle play whenever you want, wherever you want as opposed to the other races with the same viability in 1 base play.
Whats the point of having DTs being an upgrade instead of a building? The only difference would be that it is harder to scout if your opponent is going DTs. I don't think there is a problem with that really, it should be something you can see coming with the way detection works in this game. As terran no one rushes to a raven for detection because it is so costly in time and resources.
On May 11 2010 20:03 Fizban140 wrote: Whats the point of having DTs being an upgrade instead of a building? The only difference would be that it is harder to scout if your opponent is going DTs. I don't think there is a problem with that really, it should be something you can see coming with the way detection works in this game. As terran no one rushes to a raven for detection because it is so costly in time and resources.
It would make DT harass transition more naturally into HT's, since you would already have the Archives up and banging out HT upgrades for when the DT harass outlives its usefulness. I play P and rarely use DT's since rushing to them leaves your army bereft of units (DT's are really time consuming to produce, and expensive to boot), and getting them without the rush gives your enemy every opportunity to scout you or just build detectors as a matter of habit. Maybe if Archons weren't running a tight race with Ultras, Cruisers, Carriers, and the Mothership for the worst unit in the game award, you could transition your DT harass into a strong splash damage unit.
Oh, and it's not too unrealistic to expect that a Terran could get Marines, Siege Tanks, and Vikings, since the Barracks precedes the Factory, which precedes the Stargate. Without playing Terran (I've got the hang of P and am moving on to Z) quite a bit more, I don't know how realistic this is economically, but tech-wise, it's plausible (read: theorycraft bullshit proposition) to hold off the attack and then counterattack with such a unit composition.
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
He meant non-siege tanks for the FD push. If your opponent went Voids, you should be able to push into his base and at that point you get Vikings when you see the Void.
Factory - 100 Tank - 125 Star - 100 Viking - 75
Stargate - 150 Void Ray - 150
400 gas versus 300 gas assuming protoss went 0 stalkers/sentries.
He also said that Dark Templars should be an upgrade in high templar archives, instead of a completely seperate building.
+ Two labs and (preferably) a reactor would add another 100 gas for terran. Though I guess it's possible to just get away with one lab.
Terran might very well be the strongest at these levels, but terran is, if I dare say so, just harder to play than the other 2 races, moreso protoss than zerg, but still.
I started as Protoss in StarCraft II, but I switched to Terran because I felt like an asshole everytime I beat a Terran.
It was like, they were stimming marines, spreading out their infantry to avoid storms and colossi, sieging tanks, focus firing on colossi with vikings, EMPing, using ghost sniper rounds, all while having a macromanagement that is harder than mine. And I still won by going 1a T T T T T.
But now in order to not be an asshole, I might have to switch back to Protoss, according to Tester
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
He meant non-siege tanks for the FD push. If your opponent went Voids, you should be able to push into his base and at that point you get Vikings when you see the Void.
Factory - 100 Tank - 125 Star - 100 Viking - 75
Stargate - 150 Void Ray - 150
400 gas versus 300 gas assuming protoss went 0 stalkers/sentries.
He also said that Dark Templars should be an upgrade in high templar archives, instead of a completely seperate building.
Ok, so what happens if you get to the protoss base with your "FD" push and see the toss made a robo instead of a stargate? So the toss has something like 1-2 zealots, 1-2 stalkers, an immortal, and maybe a setry? You will obviously lose the fight, and probably in fact lose your tank and handful of marines. Since you have no mines to protect your push it will be basically impossible to retreat. The FD push in Broodwar is only possible because of the mines, so really making a fact/port and pushing out seems like a really bad idea in SC2 tvp.
On May 11 2010 20:28 lu_cid wrote: Ok, so what happens if you get to the protoss base with your "FD" push and see the toss made a robo instead of a stargate? So the toss has something like 1-2 zealots, 1-2 stalkers, an immortal, and maybe a setry? You will obviously lose the fight, and probably in fact lose your tank and handful of marines. Since you have no mines to protect your push it will be basically impossible to retreat. The FD push in Broodwar is only possible because of the mines, so really making a fact/port and pushing out seems like a really bad idea in SC2 tvp.
Then don't do it and keep bitching about how Terran is imbalanced. First of all, you're making up random numbers because you gave Protoss about 1250 minerals and 400 gas of stuff (Robo, 2 gateways, 2 zealots, 2 stalkers, Sentry, Immortal) versus Terran who has 700 minerals and 250 gas of stuff (Factory, Tech Lab, Barracks, Siege Tank, 5 Marines) when they're at the same tech level. Furthermore, all the points you brought up has been addressed in the video so I suggest you re-watch it.
But in case you're more of a visual person than audio, let me summarize the points for you. You obviously don't build the starport unless you have good reason to believe that the protoss player is going Void Rays. Also, the only units that Protoss has that can outrun the Terran army are stalkers. Contrary to popular belief, 2 stalkers aren't going to destroy an entire army in retreat.
Feel free to theorycraft all you want, but don't be making up random shit just cause you're so adamant in your belief that Terran is a gimped race.
On May 11 2010 18:04 MayorITC wrote: And did you watch the video? I'm not the one saying that Terran is the best race. Tester, someone who just shitted all over the foreign SC2 competition by going undefeated in the GosuCoaching Weekly #2, says that Terran is the best race.
On the flip side, let's line up the people who are saying Terran is weak: - A bunch of TLers, most who use their own personal experiences in Silver Division to explain how Protoss is overpowered - A few tournament entrees who were decent gamers in other games, but never the top player.
I'm sorry, but I find the ONE person far more credible. Numbers, alone, don't mean anything because I'm sure Tester has far more experience of high-level play than all the naysayers combined. Until Hannibal or someone of equal credibility as Tester says that Terran is weak, logic is going to side with the better SC2 authority.
What you are saying is: of all the very good players, none chose to play Terran. That is absurd.
On May 11 2010 18:09 MorroW wrote: haha gotta check this out. really happy the koreans r starting to play sc2
watch the PlayXP tournament VOD.. koreans are NOT playing sc2. half the people didn't show up to the tournament and the entire audience was empty.. like i'd say 400 chairs were all empty..
players that dindt live in seoul dind't bother making the trip either.. i dont know if there was a low prize purse or they just don't care yet? who knows.. looks like the lead sponsor was razer so prize money was probably good
The turnout for that event may have been pretty poor but that doesn't mean there isn't a huge buzz around the game. I mean check out the lineups for the two new teams announced on PlayXP recently:
Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
On May 11 2010 20:28 lu_cid wrote: Ok, so what happens if you get to the protoss base with your "FD" push and see the toss made a robo instead of a stargate? So the toss has something like 1-2 zealots, 1-2 stalkers, an immortal, and maybe a setry? You will obviously lose the fight, and probably in fact lose your tank and handful of marines. Since you have no mines to protect your push it will be basically impossible to retreat. The FD push in Broodwar is only possible because of the mines, so really making a fact/port and pushing out seems like a really bad idea in SC2 tvp.
Then don't do it and keep bitching about how Terran is imbalanced. First of all, you're making up random numbers because you gave Protoss about 1250 minerals and 400 gas of stuff (Robo, 2 gateways, 2 zealots, 2 stalkers, Sentry, Immortal) versus Terran who has 700 minerals and 250 gas of stuff (Factory, Tech Lab, Barracks, Siege Tank, 5 Marines) when they're at the same tech level. Furthermore, all the points you brought up has been addressed in the video so I suggest you re-watch it.
But in case you're more of a visual person than audio, let me summarize the points for you. You obviously don't build the starport unless you have good reason to believe that the protoss player is going Void Rays. Also, the only units that Protoss has that can outrun the Terran army are stalkers. Contrary to popular belief, 2 stalkers aren't going to destroy an entire army in retreat.
Feel free to theorycraft all you want, but don't be making up random shit just cause you're so adamant in your belief that Terran is a gimped race.
Wow somebody's sensitive. I wasn't attacking you, rather his proposed terran build. I never "bitched" about terran being imbalanced, way to make stuff up. I'm just not going to accept everything Tester said as absolute truth just because he was a bw pro. Secondly, you substituted 2 for all of my 1 or 2s, but yes the toss will have more army when you take into account the travel time to his base. Good job adding up the resources though. Two stalkers will be enough to pick off the marines if the toss chases and you don't stop and fight, and he will chase if he sees your tank and has an immortal. Yes I was theory crafting but so are you. I haven't tried the build, but obviously neither have you. In the interview he doesn't mention fast robo, just stalkers, in which case I imagine you could still easily lose your units. What I should have added is that even if this build did work it still wouldn't put you in a particularly favorable position. Also, he does say something about "sieging up" if there are a lot of stalkers so I guess you would need to take siege mode into account.
Edit: One of the major reasons I don't want to siege expand in this game is the possibility of a blink build, which this terran build is NOT robust to.
On May 11 2010 22:16 Senx wrote: Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
You needed to pay more attention in reading comprehension, it might have transfered over to speech recognition and the likes.
He was saying who do you think the best player is? On the Korean servers, of course, since that's where you play (and here comes the IMPLIED PART which you have to INFER using your BRAIN) [and can't make any judgments about the other gateways].
On May 11 2010 22:16 Senx wrote: Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
You needed to pay more attention in reading comprehension, it might have transfered over to speech recognition and the likes.
He was saying who do you think the best player is? On the Korean servers, of course, since that's where you play (and here comes the IMPLIED PART which you have to INFER using your BRAIN) [and can't make any judgments about the other gateways].
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't word it exactly like artosis said it but here's the exact quote:
"Who are the worlds best? Which players do you really respect out of the korean server?"
He also asked tester if he is the worlds best player, where he could have asked if he was koreas best player, and who koreas best players are, since you can't make that kind of comparison without any real international tournaments yet.
So yes, he did IMPLY that korea has the worlds best players.
On May 11 2010 21:35 Snowfield wrote: The #1 Protoss thinks terran is the best. Shocking news
I'm willing to give the #1 Protoss the benefit of the doubt. It's funny to me so many people here aren't. Forgive me for giving Tester's opinion a little more weight than most.
On May 11 2010 18:38 Kyuki wrote: Some interesting thoughts from Tester, but it really feels like he thinks you can get siegemode marines tanks AND vikings when voidrays hit you, and the proceedes to say that it's too hard to tech to DT and HTs due to it having mulitple tech building reqs
Kinda contradicting what he's saying since the same logic should apply to Terran in these types of circumstances.
Regardless there are probably alot of small bits of truth to what he's saying, but I deffo dont agree that Terran is OP in the right hands (theoretically).
Thanks for the interview Artosis
He meant non-siege tanks for the FD push. If your opponent went Voids, you should be able to push into his base and at that point you get Vikings when you see the Void.
Factory - 100 Tank - 125 Star - 100 Viking - 75
Stargate - 150 Void Ray - 150
400 gas versus 300 gas assuming protoss went 0 stalkers/sentries.
He also said that Dark Templars should be an upgrade in high templar archives, instead of a completely seperate building.
Yeah that makes more sense, it didnt come out like that because he mentioned bunkers and siegemode behind the bunkers in the same senstance. And having it as a upgrade in the Archive seems like a "solution" making abit more sense.
I dont speak korean, I merely listened to the translation in the video.
On May 11 2010 14:15 GreyCone wrote: I can't stand how snotty Artosis sounds in this interview. He has some false air of superiority that I don't like to hear. It is cool that he has the ability to interview players like this that most of us wouldn't have access to, but some of his comments seem so elitist. Anyone else feel the same way?
On May 11 2010 22:16 Senx wrote: Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
You mean other than the fact that Tester, who doesn't even consider himself to be the best player on the Korean server, just wiped the floor with some of the best (if not the best) non-Korean players without even losing a single game?
On May 11 2010 16:11 Skyze wrote: Geez, from reading the other terran threads on this forum, you'd think Terran was not even viable to play! So many "im not playing until a patch fixes zerg and protoss" type terrans in the other threads, yet Korean progamers are saying Terran is the strongest race..
I wonder who to believe.. hmmm
MAYBE THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY PLAYING TERRAN??? LOL."TERRAN IS THE STRONGEST RACE" - Tester (but I play protoss!)
lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
the EU/NA scene is a joke compared to the korean one...we know that... koreans know that for every mechanically sound NA/EU player, theres a dozen koreans They also probably have played many more games with higher competition for long enough to also have a higher RTS IQ as well I know you're going to say this is a different game but just look at the iccup top 100 you can't tell me these players don't have a higher rts IQ, more experience and greater mechanics than you average NA/EU player http://www.iccup.com/ladder.html and they are littered with these type of amateur players (and ex-bw pros who are already dominating) seriously...get over it, the NA/EU scene is inferior... getting upset makes you look as if you somehow pride yourself over your server's top gamers' abilities...maybe your idols aren't as good as you think they are
Idra on ASIA servers:: 2091 rating, 354-170...Idra on NA servers:: 2231 rating, 99-19 artosis on asia servers:: 1809 rating, 65-49 artosis on NA servers:: 1709 rating, 38-11
and from personal experience, asia is FAR FAR superior to NA servers seriously... get over yourselves... asia is on a different level dont understand how anybody can still take offense to this
On May 11 2010 22:16 Senx wrote: Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
You mean other than the fact that Tester, who doesn't even consider himself to be the best player on the Korean server, just wiped the floor with some of the best (if not the best) non-Korean players without even losing a single game?
yea with protoss lol, its nothing but pure theorycrafting
btw sen whos one of the best zerg on world atm says zerg is overpowered ....
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
the EU/NA scene is a joke compared to the korean one...we know that... koreans know that for every mechanically sound NA/EU player, theres a dozen koreans They also probably have played many more games with higher competition for long enough to also have a higher RTS IQ as well I know you're going to say this is a different game but just look at the iccup top 100 you can't tell me these players don't have a higher rts IQ, more experience and greater mechanics than you average NA/EU player http://www.iccup.com/ladder.html and they are littered with these type of amateur players (and ex-bw pros who are already dominating) seriously...get over it, the NA/EU scene is inferior... getting upset makes you look as if you somehow pride yourself over your server's top gamers' abilities...maybe your idols aren't as good as you think they are
Idra on ASIA servers:: 2091 rating, 354-170...Idra on NA servers:: 2231 rating, 99-19 artosis on asia servers:: 1809 rating, 65-49 artosis on NA servers:: 1709 rating, 38-11
and from personal experience, asia is FAR FAR superior to NA servers seriously... get over yourselves... asia is on a different level dont understand how anybody can still take offense to this
its not that top asian players are way better than top EU/NA players(atleast we cant say yet) just the quality of players from plat on asia must be way better than on other realms
On May 11 2010 22:16 Senx wrote: Such an arrogant attitude towards the europe and US server, "So tester, whos the best player in the world? On Korean server obviously since thats where you play."
Really ticks me off when you make these bold statements when there is zero proof that koreans are actually better than the european/US top players.
You mean other than the fact that Tester, who doesn't even consider himself to be the best player on the Korean server, just wiped the floor with some of the best (if not the best) non-Korean players without even losing a single game?
yea with protoss lol, its nothing but pure theorycrafting
btw sen whos one of the best zerg on world atm says zerg is overpowered ....
You completely and utterly failed to read the post I was responding to.
It has to do with a supposedly arrogant attitude with regard to the Korean server, and not to do with this petty discussion of "is Terran overpowered" which you seem to think.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Because of "honor" (couldn't find the right word), you always want your scene/country/etc the best and you will always try to defend it tbh.
For example, if I would say "All americans suck at sc2", even if it would be a fact, all the americans here would start giving arguments why they are actually good at starcraft 2.
It's the same reason why in soccer/other sports etc you support the person that is represting your country.
(oh an btw, that americans suck was just something I made up, i do not think that americans suck).
About the siege tank thing that someone asked a few posts above:
Splash dmg overall got changed to be more reliable, so it has a large effect on the siege tank.
Ontopic:
Thanks artosis for another great interview. And I was happy to see the quality of the questions you asked.
On May 12 2010 01:37 Perfect Balance wrote: Terran has some powerful timing windows, but outside of those there is nothing but loss..
A maxed terran army facing off against a maxed P/Z army will result in loss, every time.
The mid-late game needs to be fixed, Zerg larva stacking and Toss chrono is too strong.
- Plat Terran.
He signed it as Plat Terran so it must be true!! And people are wondering why we believe Tester. Because the only other people arguing the flipside of his point are these people here.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
For example, if I would say "All americans suck at sc2", even if it would be a fact, all the americans here would start giving arguments why they are actually good at starcraft 2.
If a european said that, i may disagree if a korean said that, i would 100% agree with him because i know from what skill level they are comparing us to
On May 12 2010 01:37 Perfect Balance wrote: Terran has some powerful timing windows, but outside of those there is nothing but loss..
A maxed terran army facing off against a maxed P/Z army will result in loss, every time.
The mid-late game needs to be fixed, Zerg larva stacking and Toss chrono is too strong.
- Plat Terran.
if not using t3 units there is nothing a zerg could do against a well microed mech army.
- Plat Zerg.
ye agree been dominating every single zerg with my mech play the only way zerg can outweight it seems to be with broodlord but vikings along with thor is a deadly antiair wouldnt be too shocked if i saw some buff on the zergling adrenaline or the ultralisk speed
and while they r at it why dont they change the m250 on the thor so its more allround rather than only being good vs buildings and ultralisk. its stupid how it completely counters the ultralisk but nothing else, bad design imo
i think toss is gonna rape a 200 psi terran tho xd
I'm a Zerg player who has been offracing Terran and I have to say they have very hard mech micro, but if someone can pick it up it'd be so beastly. There's very little zerg army micro...it's just like lol a click in a good position.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
well being mechanically good doesnt mean so much in sc2 i think its disrespectful of artosis to assume that the asians r better then EU and US just because they won so far against them and that koreans were rly good at sc1. sure its a logical conclusion with some backup to it but i still think its wrong to just throw that out like that in an interview
zerg is the strongest now (they were the weakest in SC1 so blizzard clearly buffed them up. also, why else would artosis and that bm noob idra switch to zerg? they know z is op now)
terran is the 2nd strongest (since tester thinks so)
protoss is the weakest because their air units suck (phoenix is new scout) and storm is wimpy now.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
well being mechanically good doesnt mean so much in sc2 i think its disrespectful of artosis to assume that the asians r better then EU and US just because they won so far against them and that koreans were rly good at sc1. sure its a logical conclusion with some backup to it but i still think its wrong to just throw that out like that in an interview
how is it disrespectful when tester mauled his way through the competition? not saying i agree with what artosis said, but the fact that tester basically looked like he was having a walk in the park while beating some of the better foreigners out there does lend some credibility to the whole koreans > anyone else thing
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
you're not serious are you? artosis was consistently one of the top 10-15 american players for the greater part of the last decade
maybe you mean compared to other koreans? then yeah hes nothing special or maybe you mean in sc2? well the game is in beta so i'd reserve your opinions i've never liked artosis personally but i can definitely appreciate his bw merits
On May 11 2010 12:29 StarBrift wrote: Not too sure about the whole FD thing vs void ray. If you make voids you generally camp your ramp with sentry, How is an FD going to attack that? I guess it depends on starting positions but I don't understand how you can stop the expansion that toss throws up when your units are forced to guard your main because 2-3 voids are there threatening to bust you up. Also those voids can easily turn back and help defending on most maps.
I got the feeling that maybe Tester was talking about the old void rays as he was saying that koreans were doing it early in beta but not anymore. But they got patched recently to get good against marines.
Note that I'm a random player and have no bias. It just strikes me as almost impossible to push with tanks against void rays and a ground army. Also I find it very easy to just go in with my 2-3 rays if he pushes and burn half of his his scvs while cancling my nexus and sentry turtling the ramp. How is he going to win .5 base vs 1 base?
Void rays also grow in strenght with numbers. If you have like 5 voids and a decent ground army that is SO hard to kill for terran before it totally demolishes anything he has. If he focuses the rays then he'll die to ground and if he just auto attacks my ground then his units will die too fast for the vikings to finish off the rays before everything is dead. Vikings do not kill void rays fast without support.
vrs work better against buildings, not scvs. go for the cc instead.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
well being mechanically good doesnt mean so much in sc2 i think its disrespectful of artosis to assume that the asians r better then EU and US just because they won so far against them and that koreans were rly good at sc1. sure its a logical conclusion with some backup to it but i still think its wrong to just throw that out like that in an interview
how is it disrespectful when tester mauled his way through the competition? not saying i agree with what artosis said, but the fact that tester basically looked like he was having a walk in the park while beating some of the better foreigners out there does lend some credibility to the whole koreans > anyone else thing
just because u have a walk in the park in a few tournaments here and there and winning against quote "some of the top players" doesnt mean hes above everyone else. now if artosis thinks asia is so much stronger (which i would probably agree with since it makes sense) its uncalled to say the best player is located there without even having merged tournaments of EU US and Asia. i didnt say tester was disrespectful, i meant artosis was because u dont just throw out personal opinions like that in interviews. an interviewer shouldnt take sides or form his questions so much out of what he thinks himself...
on a sidenote EU would probably have a walk in the park in the us tournaments too
I really want to see Tester's marine/tank build. Other than on incineration zone, I don't think I've seen the composition be really successful against protoss in high-level games.
I can't see why a player like Check, who's pretty successful in sc2 Korea, would all of a sudden dominate players like Lucifron and Demuslim(atleast at his peak) when he wasn't in wc3. I know it's a different game but still, it's a pretty bold statement until they have actually played eachother.
^ I agree, though I'd like to point out that Demuslim did lose 1-3 to Freedom (a top Korean SC 2 player) recently. We should wait and see what happens.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
well being mechanically good doesnt mean so much in sc2 i think its disrespectful of artosis to assume that the asians r better then EU and US just because they won so far against them and that koreans were rly good at sc1. sure its a logical conclusion with some backup to it but i still think its wrong to just throw that out like that in an interview
how is it disrespectful when tester mauled his way through the competition? not saying i agree with what artosis said, but the fact that tester basically looked like he was having a walk in the park while beating some of the better foreigners out there does lend some credibility to the whole koreans > anyone else thing
just because u have a walk in the park in a few tournaments here and there and winning against quote "some of the top players" doesnt mean hes above everyone else. now if artosis thinks asia is so much stronger (which i would probably agree with since it makes sense) its uncalled to say the best player is located there without even having merged tournaments of EU US and Asia. i didnt say tester was disrespectful, i meant artosis was because u dont just throw out personal opinions like that in interviews. an interviewer shouldnt take sides or form his questions so much out of what he thinks himself...
on a sidenote EU would probably have a walk in the park in the us tournaments too
erm.. it's his interview, and HIS take on HIS experience in korea.. He can form whatever opinion he wants.. and Tester is widely recognized as the best sc2 player in korea.. he just mopped the floor iwth all the EU/NA competition in recent tournaments, so I think Artosis' opinion is more legit than ever. And in several of his interviews he's said that Tester is widely recognized as the best player in Korea, so there is that factual basis that you seem to itch so much for. Either way.. Artosis has no responsibility to you or anyone to provide unbiased journalism, and his statements aren't even biased.. they are what the korean sc2 community thinks
people said NE is imba, even top players were saying that and at the end it was orc who dominated the game, opinion about terrans being strongerst said by one player even tho theres no such evidence means nothing. In contrast to it other pros like sen are saying zerg is overpowered. Pretty weird people treat his opinion like it was a FACT.
On May 12 2010 01:35 billyX333 wrote: lol, why are so many people upset about artosis's attitude towards NA/EU?
Well, Artosis is himself not a very good player, but he thinks he is because he plays with koreans all day. He wants to be one of them so badly. He desperately rides the korean wave despite not having accomplished anything himself. He comes across as a big dork to me.
I think what he said was fair.. I don't think there are many mechanically sound NA players.. Even if you watch the top players in US/CA you still see tons of mistakes
well being mechanically good doesnt mean so much in sc2 i think its disrespectful of artosis to assume that the asians r better then EU and US just because they won so far against them and that koreans were rly good at sc1. sure its a logical conclusion with some backup to it but i still think its wrong to just throw that out like that in an interview
how is it disrespectful when tester mauled his way through the competition? not saying i agree with what artosis said, but the fact that tester basically looked like he was having a walk in the park while beating some of the better foreigners out there does lend some credibility to the whole koreans > anyone else thing
just because u have a walk in the park in a few tournaments here and there and winning against quote "some of the top players" doesnt mean hes above everyone else. now if artosis thinks asia is so much stronger (which i would probably agree with since it makes sense) its uncalled to say the best player is located there without even having merged tournaments of EU US and Asia. i didnt say tester was disrespectful, i meant artosis was because u dont just throw out personal opinions like that in interviews. an interviewer shouldnt take sides or form his questions so much out of what he thinks himself...
on a sidenote EU would probably have a walk in the park in the us tournaments too
I do not think a lot of people understand that what artosis does with tester, and what others do all during SC2 beta is...endlessly hype themselves up. That's what beta is about guys! Hype, hype, hype!
I feel like Tester's analysis is true and is also very relevant to Terran in SC1 too. TBH in SC1 there weren't a lot of excellent Terrans outside of Korea due to mechanics, etc. I think we will definitely see a difference in how Terran is played and the level of Terran players once we see some high-level players from SC1 pick up SC2, but it could be a very long time before we see the likes of FlasH and fantasy playing SC2.
However, I don't want to go as far as to say a race is the best due to their potential and how well a certain level of players can utilize them. So, I think you can have a different race tier-list based on skill level. I.E. at a casual level its race a, b, c, but at a pro level its race b c a, etc.
In Wc3 a lot of people complained about the imbalances of Night Elf and how dominant they were (during Moon's domination), but if you took out Moon's statistics, Night Elf was performing poorly. Was that because the night elf players were simply not on the same skill level as their opponents or not on the same skill level as Moon? It's hard to say.
At the end of the day the more skilled player should win.
On May 12 2010 01:37 Perfect Balance wrote: Terran has some powerful timing windows, but outside of those there is nothing but loss..
A maxed terran army facing off against a maxed P/Z army will result in loss, every time.
The mid-late game needs to be fixed, Zerg larva stacking and Toss chrono is too strong.
- Plat Terran.
if not using t3 units there is nothing a zerg could do against a well microed mech army.
- Plat Zerg.
ye agree been dominating every single zerg with my mech play the only way zerg can outweight it seems to be with broodlord but vikings along with thor is a deadly antiair wouldnt be too shocked if i saw some buff on the zergling adrenaline or the ultralisk speed
and while they r at it why dont they change the m250 on the thor so its more allround rather than only being good vs buildings and ultralisk. its stupid how it completely counters the ultralisk but nothing else, bad design imo
i think toss is gonna rape a 200 psi terran tho xd
I agree about mech play, I've been doing SC1 style mech and now that we have tanks available again, it is very, very good. Way better than bio, but of course sc2 mech was alway way better than bio.
maxed out tvp army you can win with Terran I think.
with all the beginnerfriendly things like MBS autocast and autominig etc, there is a huge chunk of the korean advantage that now every1 can master. Im extremly curious for this game to go retail so we can see some real BEST ON BEST from all the different servers, I imagine there will be some workaround to be able to play on different realms etc, its what the people want, and it will happen even if blizz dont allow it
edit: where to go for top korean replays? cuz the ones I have seen havent been that impressive, save the micro which was incredible !
On May 12 2010 01:37 Perfect Balance wrote: Terran has some powerful timing windows, but outside of those there is nothing but loss..
A maxed terran army facing off against a maxed P/Z army will result in loss, every time.
The mid-late game needs to be fixed, Zerg larva stacking and Toss chrono is too strong.
- Plat Terran.
if not using t3 units there is nothing a zerg could do against a well microed mech army.
- Plat Zerg.
ye agree been dominating every single zerg with my mech play the only way zerg can outweight it seems to be with broodlord but vikings along with thor is a deadly antiair wouldnt be too shocked if i saw some buff on the zergling adrenaline or the ultralisk speed
and while they r at it why dont they change the m250 on the thor so its more allround rather than only being good vs buildings and ultralisk. its stupid how it completely counters the ultralisk but nothing else, bad design imo
i think toss is gonna rape a 200 psi terran tho xd
I agree about mech play, I've been doing SC1 style mech and now that we have tanks available again, it is very, very good. Way better than bio, but of course sc2 mech was alway way better than bio.
maxed out tvp army you can win with Terran I think.
Time to post a new guide? Because i will share your replay if you won't
I think most players of all three races thinks a different race is OP. For terran, a popular choice is protoss. For protoss, funny enough, it's terran. For zerg, it seems to be both terran and zerg.
On May 12 2010 08:42 Chronopolis wrote: I think most players of all three races thinks a different race is OP. For terran, a popular choice is protoss. For protoss, funny enough, it's terran. For zerg, it seems to be both terran and zerg.
Since Tester obviously can't show the world how Terran should be played, we'll just have to wait for Flash to come along and spend a year or two working out his game. Until then, 'tis all good, the game is fine - for some day in the future one player MAY crack the terran code.
It's just so funny when these statements are made. Does anyone remember the first couple of weeks of beta, when both Check and Zenio were interviewed by YGosu, and they both thought "terran players are just not playing it right".
Then they asked what they were doing wrong.
Zenio: "I think the players just need to play more like Terran in SC1"
Check: "I think the players need to stop trying to play Terran like in SC1"
I think it would carry way more weight if it was said by someone who actually plays Terran. For the record, I don't think Terran are hopelessly behind or anything, but "strongest race" seems a bit rich given the results...
On May 11 2010 10:47 lu_cid wrote: nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
You've never seen Maka play?
As far as I've been told, when Maka was interviewed his opinion on terran was something along the lines of "Terran are weak, but I win because I'm awesome :D :D!".
On May 13 2010 02:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: It's just so funny when these statements are made. Does anyone remember the first couple of weeks of beta, when both Check and Zenio were interviewed by YGosu, and they both thought "terran players are just not playing it right".
Then they asked what they were doing wrong.
Zenio: "I think the players just need to play more like Terran in SC1"
Check: "I think the players need to stop trying to play Terran like in SC1"
I think it would carry way more weight if it was said by someone who actually plays Terran. For the record, I don't think Terran are hopelessly behind or anything, but "strongest race" seems a bit rich given the results...
On May 11 2010 10:47 lu_cid wrote: nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
You've never seen Maka play?
As far as I've been told, when Maka was interviewed his opinion on terran was something along the lines of "Terran are weak, but I win because I'm awesome :D :D!".
Maybe that last patch is a thing to consider, it did change everything about siege tanks making them viable...
He basically said EVERY SINGLE TERRAN IN THE WORLD SUCKS ATM....and in some way they are extremely overpowered but has no statistics, or explanation....
He's naive for that imo, I could care less if he's 100x better then me. lol, especially when statistics state zerg is the #1 race by far, and if they were half way decent like he says, why wouldn't a mediocre terran beat the same level protoss in the tournies we're seeing?
Furthermore, his explanation w/ vikings w/ longer ranger, etc, he's theorycrafting, I don't believe he's played terran. I've seen many of the top T players try to micro vs voidrays, it's really impossible. So how are T pros so bad if they're considered pros now?...
On May 13 2010 02:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: It's just so funny when these statements are made. Does anyone remember the first couple of weeks of beta, when both Check and Zenio were interviewed by YGosu, and they both thought "terran players are just not playing it right".
Then they asked what they were doing wrong.
Zenio: "I think the players just need to play more like Terran in SC1"
Check: "I think the players need to stop trying to play Terran like in SC1"
I think it would carry way more weight if it was said by someone who actually plays Terran. For the record, I don't think Terran are hopelessly behind or anything, but "strongest race" seems a bit rich given the results...
On May 11 2010 10:47 Harem wrote:
On May 11 2010 10:47 lu_cid wrote: nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
You've never seen Maka play?
As far as I've been told, when Maka was interviewed his opinion on terran was something along the lines of "Terran are weak, but I win because I'm awesome :D :D!".
Maybe that last patch is a thing to consider, it did change everything about siege tanks making them viable...
.... Siege tanks were just as viable before the patch as after --;; It's a 10 hit point difference wtf. Yeah splash got better I guess but tanks didn't suddenly become 10x as good - it's an extremely minor change.
I highly doubt an increase of 10 hp in any unit makes it going from "unviable" to "viable". Siege tanks have always been strong I just think people don't want to take positioning into consideration. You can't just bum rush a base with siege tanks, it has to be a slow push, just like it was in sc1, but people don't want to have a slow push, they'd rather stim marauders and run them across the map. It's all a matter of preference really, siege tanks were strong last patch and they're still strong this patch.
On May 13 2010 02:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: It's just so funny when these statements are made. Does anyone remember the first couple of weeks of beta, when both Check and Zenio were interviewed by YGosu, and they both thought "terran players are just not playing it right".
Then they asked what they were doing wrong.
Zenio: "I think the players just need to play more like Terran in SC1"
Check: "I think the players need to stop trying to play Terran like in SC1"
I think it would carry way more weight if it was said by someone who actually plays Terran. For the record, I don't think Terran are hopelessly behind or anything, but "strongest race" seems a bit rich given the results...
On May 11 2010 10:47 Harem wrote:
On May 11 2010 10:47 lu_cid wrote: nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
You've never seen Maka play?
As far as I've been told, when Maka was interviewed his opinion on terran was something along the lines of "Terran are weak, but I win because I'm awesome :D :D!".
Maybe that last patch is a thing to consider, it did change everything about siege tanks making them viable...
.... Siege tanks were just as viable before the patch as after --;;
I think that's where you're wrong, now they have splash? You can murder roaches tvz easily.
On May 13 2010 02:52 Diaspora wrote: I highly doubt an increase of 10 hp in any unit makes it going from "unviable" to "viable". Siege tanks have always been strong I just think people don't want to take positioning into consideration. You can't just bum rush a base with siege tanks, it has to be a slow push, just like it was in sc1, but people don't want to have a slow push, they'd rather stim marauders and run them across the map. It's all a matter of preference really, siege tanks were strong last patch and they're still strong this patch.
On May 13 2010 02:50 JreL209 wrote: His comment makes no sense.....
He basically said EVERY SINGLE TERRAN IN THE WORLD SUCKS ATM....and in some way they are extremely overpowered but has no statistics, or explanation....
He's naive for that imo, I could care less if he's 100x better then me. lol, especially when statistics state zerg is the #1 race by far, and if they were half way decent like he says, why wouldn't a mediocre terran beat the same level protoss in the tournies we're seeing?
I think people are making assumptions about Terran, because in SC1 days Terran was also statistically worse than the other two races, then Boxer and patch 1.08 came around and Terran had a dramatic turnaround in results.
People are thinking, "Well, Terran was underpowered until Boxer showed us how it's done, so something like that is BOUND to happen in SC2, right?"
Truth is it's too hard to tell right now. Need to wait until we start seeing bigger macro maps and time for a proscene to develop. When it comes down to it, the proscene usually dictates the balance and statistical trends for most of the player base, but right now there really isn't an SC2 proscene yet so players have more room for creativity and, dare I say, "error" in their builds.
When it comes down to it, people who are saying Terran is the best are really just postulating that some day THAT SC2 BOXER WILL APPEAR and "show us all how it's done."
On May 13 2010 02:58 Kyo Yuy wrote: When it comes down to it, people who are saying Terran is the best are really just postulating that some day THAT SC2 BOXER WILL APPEAR and "show us all how it's done."
Not true, splash damage makes z<<t currently in every mid/late game situation, unless someone comes up with a weird drop play or w/e else. There's no way to break the distance between z ground army and 20 sieged tanks, things like burrowed roached only work once (and honestly they shouldn't work at all) Try attacking that with anything you want, make a custom map or w/e. Sieged tanks, hellions, few thors and ravens, go (you can deal with broodlords usign either raven missile+thors or vikings+thors)
Blizz will have to deal with this issue, morrow suggested buffing adrenaline or ultra speed, I'm not even sure if that will cut it.
On May 13 2010 02:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: It's just so funny when these statements are made. Does anyone remember the first couple of weeks of beta, when both Check and Zenio were interviewed by YGosu, and they both thought "terran players are just not playing it right".
Then they asked what they were doing wrong.
Zenio: "I think the players just need to play more like Terran in SC1"
Check: "I think the players need to stop trying to play Terran like in SC1"
I think it would carry way more weight if it was said by someone who actually plays Terran. For the record, I don't think Terran are hopelessly behind or anything, but "strongest race" seems a bit rich given the results...
On May 11 2010 10:47 Harem wrote:
On May 11 2010 10:47 lu_cid wrote: nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though...
You've never seen Maka play?
As far as I've been told, when Maka was interviewed his opinion on terran was something along the lines of "Terran are weak, but I win because I'm awesome :D :D!".
Maybe that last patch is a thing to consider, it did change everything about siege tanks making them viable...
.... Siege tanks were just as viable before the patch as after --;;
I think that's where you're wrong, now they have splash? You can murder roaches tvz easily.
They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
On May 13 2010 03:04 oxxo wrote: They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
Are you sure? Because a lot of people noticed huge difference about tank splash done recently.
Here: "Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage."
On May 13 2010 03:04 oxxo wrote: They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
Are you sure? Because a lot of people noticed huge difference about tank splash done recently.
Here: "Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage."
This changes everything.
What this means, to me, is that splash damage will now move with the unit as it moves, instead of being centered around the location of impact, which, pre-patch, made it easier to evade if your units are moving.
On May 13 2010 03:04 oxxo wrote: They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
Are you sure? Because a lot of people noticed huge difference about tank splash done recently.
Here: "Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage."
This changes everything.
What this means, to me, is that splash damage will now move with the unit as it moves, instead of being centered around the location of impact, which makes it easier to evade if your units are moving.
I realize I made a typo in the above comment. What I meant was that the splash being centered around the location of impact makes it easier to evade, not that the splash being centered around the unit makes it easier to evade. The latter is the change: it is now harder to evade siege tank splash.
On May 13 2010 03:04 oxxo wrote: They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
Are you sure? Because a lot of people noticed huge difference about tank splash done recently.
Here: "Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage."
This changes everything.
Yes, they have always had splash. Yes, mass siege tanks have always murdered infantry/zealots/zerg ground.
Trust me, or just go look at any old game with tanks in it and you'll notice the huge splash.
On May 13 2010 03:04 oxxo wrote: They always had splash. As said, they are basically the same pre/post patch.
Are you sure? Because a lot of people noticed huge difference about tank splash done recently.
Here: "Siege Mode splash damage now originates from the center of the target, rather than the impact location near the unit in order to maintain more reliable splash damage."
This changes everything.
Yes, they have always had splash. Yes, mass siege tanks have always murdered infantry/zealots/zerg ground.
Trust me, or just go look at any old game with tanks in it and you'll notice the huge splash.
Okay, maybe someone else clarifies! I think it changed because I used to be able to shove 200 roach army into tanks and at least rid of some. Maybe it's just my imagination, I just felt that something about the splash distribution was completely different.
I think the splash used to target the nearest edge of a unit so most of the damage would end up wasted in front of the army that was running in to kill your tanks. With it now properly centred on the target unit, the damage is spread a lot more usefully.
On May 13 2010 04:01 Bane_ wrote: I think the splash used to target the nearest edge of a unit so most of the damage would end up wasted in front of the army that was running in to kill your tanks. With it now properly centred on the target unit, the damage is spread a lot more usefully.
Yeah, it resembles the splash that we had in bw now but it wasn't like that before the patch.
On May 13 2010 02:50 JreL209 wrote: His comment makes no sense.....
He basically said EVERY SINGLE TERRAN IN THE WORLD SUCKS ATM....and in some way they are extremely overpowered but has no statistics, or explanation....
He's naive for that imo, I could care less if he's 100x better then me. lol, especially when statistics state zerg is the #1 race by far, and if they were half way decent like he says, why wouldn't a mediocre terran beat the same level protoss in the tournies we're seeing?
I think people are making assumptions about Terran, because in SC1 days Terran was also statistically worse than the other two races, then Boxer and patch 1.08 came around and Terran had a dramatic turnaround in results.
People are thinking, "Well, Terran was underpowered until Boxer showed us how it's done, so something like that is BOUND to happen in SC2, right?"
Truth is it's too hard to tell right now. Need to wait until we start seeing bigger macro maps and time for a proscene to develop. When it comes down to it, the proscene usually dictates the balance and statistical trends for most of the player base, but right now there really isn't an SC2 proscene yet so players have more room for creativity and, dare I say, "error" in their builds.
When it comes down to it, people who are saying Terran is the best are really just postulating that some day THAT SC2 BOXER WILL APPEAR and "show us all how it's done."
Bigger macro maps would help maneuverable units like blink stalkers and marauders more than they would help tanks, imo. People need to realize that the reason Terran went tanks in BW is because you had no other options against Protoss. Bio got absolutely slaughtered by storms and reavers, such that if you failed to EMP or scarab dodge even once, you could lose entire armies. With marauders, this vulnerability is less apparent in SC 2.
Tanks were good in BW because they were needed to maintain any form of map control. Tanks play the same role in sc2 and are still a very good unit. They just don't stand as well by themselves.
On May 13 2010 04:36 KwanUSA wrote: Tanks were good in BW because they were needed to maintain any form of map control. Tanks play the same role in sc2 and are still a very good unit. They just don't stand as well by themselves.
Yes, but that's partly because there weren't any alternatives.
Marauders provide an alternative for maintaining map control in SC 2. They are highly maneuverable, esp. with a lot of medivacs, and can stand up against any Protoss army so long as you supplement them with vikings and ghosts (also highly maneuverable).
On May 13 2010 03:04 condoriano wrote: Not true, splash damage makes z<<t currently in every mid/late game situation, unless someone comes up with a weird drop play or w/e else. There's no way to break the distance between z ground army and 20 sieged tanks, things like burrowed roached only work once (and honestly they shouldn't work at all) Try attacking that with anything you want, make a custom map or w/e. Sieged tanks, hellions, few thors and ravens, go (you can deal with broodlords usign either raven missile+thors or vikings+thors)
Blizz will have to deal with this issue, morrow suggested buffing adrenaline or ultra speed, I'm not even sure if that will cut it.
x2 I think that's why Blizzard intends to buff Ultralisks even more next patch. Lack of a lategame tanking unit prevents whatever army Zerg has from overcoming well-placed siege tanks.
I like his mentality. Players like him are never looking as the game as it is, they are looking at how the game could be. He see the potential of Ter even though there aren't many top terran players. I think everyone should focus less on whining about build A beating build Y (of which I am more guilty of then anyone) and focus more on, "what strategies that when mastered are the absolute best, and how can I master them even if it takes a year to master it"?
What do you think of the balance in the game at the moment?
Maka: "In my opinion, banelings and voidray are the things that broke the balance in SC2. I used to play Warcraft 3, so I like to count units durning battles, and often a Zerg can crush it's opponent with 20 food less! Banelings are very cheap as well! Speaking of the void ray.. it's damage is scary. With decent micro, even one void ray can deal a lot of damage to the opponent's base. I hope the void ray gets a nerf, everything else seems fine to me."
On May 14 2010 08:45 Disastorm wrote: If tester was right about Terran being the strongest, then after this patch they are probably the mega-ultra-uber-race now.
On May 14 2010 08:45 Disastorm wrote: If tester was right about Terran being the strongest, then after this patch they are probably the mega-ultra-uber-race now.
So for a bunch of supposedly chobo US terrans, from what I read in the gosucoaching weekly 4 tournament thread, tester got eliminated in the first round (LOL). Then artosis and idra both got eliminated by chobo US terrans later on.
so tester is the best player? where is jaedong etc are they not gonna switch over to SC2 soon? shame that it's so hard to find news about the pro korean scene, unless someone can show me where
I don't see why this is news to anyone, terran has always been good, they have the most specialized units in a diverse set, and when played right can absolutely roll.
On May 14 2010 09:52 tubs wrote: So for a bunch of supposedly chobo US terrans, from what I read in the gosucoaching weekly 4 tournament thread, tester got eliminated in the first round (LOL). Then artosis and idra both got eliminated by chobo US terrans later on.
US not so EZ, eh asia?
Did they blame it on lag? I'll bet they blamed it on lag.
On May 14 2010 09:52 tubs wrote: So for a bunch of supposedly chobo US terrans, from what I read in the gosucoaching weekly 4 tournament thread, tester got eliminated in the first round (LOL). Then artosis and idra both got eliminated by chobo US terrans later on.
US not so EZ, eh asia?
Did they blame it on lag? I'll bet they blamed it on lag.
Pretty sure it was just a walkover since it was the first round. He probably just forgot about the time or something, and there were a lot of other people that didn't show up too.
It's hard to say that koreans will be the best at sc2 as well, at least for sure, I don't think it's fair to call tester the best..... of the world. At least not yey
I didn't find tester's customary id in the most recent gosucoaching tourney, but in the replays from #3 he was playing Terran which probably had a fair amount to do with losing.
The way i see it, Terran is the best race currently, but only when played perfect. I do see Toss as the easiest and the weakest race as the moment, and the reason you see it at the top tournament levels is that everyone is still pretty damn far from the potential of their races.
I think Terran has some great potential, it just needs some time. As of now, people aren't even countering Void Rays right. Seriously, I've seen top players trying to beat fast void ray with only marines and failing miserably.
It's quite funny how people are going all "omg T mech is so viable now that Siege Tanks have a whole 10 HP MORE!!1" Siege tanks were always powerful.
I haven't played very much but thus far I consider this to be the strength levels: Protoss > Terran > Zerg It might just be because I have played few good Zergs, but I just feel like they are powerless vs my sentries/tanks and whatever.
I've also tried doing FD-style rushes but they all failed. I really see Protoss as unrushable because they can get more than enough units to defend the rush and a single Sentry can just deny any chance of doing damage.
On May 14 2010 10:31 Wr3k wrote: I don't see why this is news to anyone, terran has always been good, they have the most specialized units in a diverse set, and when played right can absolutely roll.
Problem is, I wish that could be said off all the races. Can it? If you can't then there is something flawed with the balance of the game.
But yea, I agree with the whole terran is most OP right now thing. I blame Browder.
I've always thought that Terran was IMBA in SC:BW as well. Siege Tanks are just too strong in a late game. Along with the aforementioned diversity of units, this becomes overwhelming. Consider 3/4 Bonjwa are Terran (maybe 4/5) and both the First most dominating player and the most recent dominating player are both Terran. This speaks volumes since the evolution of the game is proving them as the strongest Micro oriented race (early SC) and possibly strongest Macro oriented race (Late SC). With a Brief hiatus in the middle where another race was Dominant, almost exactly at the point of the game switching away from mostly micro oriented to mostly macro oriented... (sAviOr > ooV)
On May 15 2010 08:36 Cheezy wrote: It's quite funny how people are going all "omg T mech is so viable now that Siege Tanks have a whole 10 HP MORE!!1" Siege tanks were always powerful.
I seriously doubt that it's the 10 hp and not the new way that most aoe attacks works in the game, like the aoe spreads from the centre of the target and not infront of it.
On May 14 2010 09:52 tubs wrote: So for a bunch of supposedly chobo US terrans, from what I read in the gosucoaching weekly 4 tournament thread, tester got eliminated in the first round (LOL). Then artosis and idra both got eliminated by chobo US terrans later on.
US not so EZ, eh asia?
Did they blame it on lag? I'll bet they blamed it on lag.
Pretty sure it was just a walkover since it was the first round. He probably just forgot about the time or something, and there were a lot of other people that didn't show up too.
On May 24 2010 14:06 D-Lite wrote: haha loved this vid, has anyone else noticed a huge increase of terran on bnet since like last week when it was upped on sc4all?
I switched to Terran last week on my Euro account.
Now it's my main (and best) race.
I was getting to the point with my Toss at 1600 ish that I could not figure out ways to beat certain compositions and scenarios. So far every loss with Terran has been, oh I should have done this instead...
thnx a lot OP, and yes, I totally agree about T being the best by far in a great players' hands. T has not only been buffed pretty much every single patch - at the same time P and Z have been nerfed every time, but they didn't even need it in the first place!! T's MMMT ball is just ridonculous and always has been. Now the buffed siege tanks r just way over the edge on top of all the crazy early harass options.
These forums are only conflicted on the dominant race because this site has perfect memory, if someone says zerg is good the site never forgets. You can go and peruse that information and let it pollute your brain not realizing that the information is irrelevant as it was based on currently untrue premises, due to patching. Also if you think trends in the overall community accurately represent comprehensive balance you are crazy. The population that can actually analyze and represent the relative strengths through near perfect macro and micro (at least theoretically superior) is only something like 5% of the total community - the very best players. When someone who wins a competitive tourney without losing a game comments on balance you can almost be sure that what they say is going to be one hell-of-a-lot more relevant then when the loud gold and silver players come out whining about the latest gimmick that they just got destroyed by.
On May 24 2010 21:03 FlamingTurd wrote: thnx a lot OP, and yes, I totally agree about T being the best by far in a great players' hands. T has not only been buffed pretty much every single patch - at the same time P and Z have been nerfed every time, but they didn't even need it in the first place!! T's MMMT ball is just ridonculous and always has been. Now the buffed siege tanks r just way over the edge on top of all the crazy early harass options.
Man relative changes are not remotely like an argument about any absolute strength. Numerical example: Terran starts off at stength 5, P's strength is 15, Z's is 12.
Zerg is nerfed three times, buffed once and ends up with strength 10. Protoss is nerfed three times and ends up with strength 12. Terran is buffed four times and ends up at strength 9.
Terran is still the worst in this example although it was the only race that was consistently buffed while the others were nerfed overall.
That said, I think Terran appears poised to claim the title of dominant race but it isn't clear that Terran is the dominant race. If Bnet 2.0 becomes less of a cluster fuck and more tournaments can occur, then we'll learn something. The ladder, especially the general statistics generated by the ladder tell us nothing. Terran looks best at the moment because Siege Tanks demolish ground, and the Terran infantry is much more viable in TvP and TvT than it ever was in BW. On the other hand, Protoss has the Colossus which incinerates Terran infantry and Zerg should be able to lay down some serious production delays with the new Overseer, not to mention creating many more attacking windows when defending troops are pulled from the front to protect production buildings. Anyway there are a lot of undiscovered dynamics that will be revealed in the next few weeks of beta play and although I think Terran is the most likely to come out on top, neither my expectations or anyone else's are the truth
On May 24 2010 21:03 FlamingTurd wrote: thnx a lot OP, and yes, I totally agree about T being the best by far in a great players' hands. T has not only been buffed pretty much every single patch - at the same time P and Z have been nerfed every time, but they didn't even need it in the first place!! T's MMMT ball is just ridonculous and always has been. Now the buffed siege tanks r just way over the edge on top of all the crazy early harass options.
Man relative changes are not remotely like an argument about any absolute strength. Numerical example: Terran starts off at stength 5, P's strength is 15, Z's is 12.
Zerg is nerfed five times, buffed once and ends up with strength 8. Protoss is nerfed 13 times and ends up with strength 2. Terran is buffed 13 times and ends up at strength 18.
This is all circumstancial evidence. Saying either I lose alot against Terran or I win more as Terran doesn't prove they are a better race.
Look at tourneys. When played to their fulliest potential it seems Toss is winning more. True this is more curcumstancial evidence but I'll take a progamer's play over the average joe.
Day9 said that rather than call something imba, try to figure out how to beat it. White-Ra, NonY, IdrA, Orb, TLO, Day9 and Artosis have all found ways to beat Terran. It's possible.
TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.
Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.
On May 25 2010 23:57 Spidermonkey wrote: This is all circumstancial evidence. Saying either I lose alot against Terran or I win more as Terran doesn't prove they are a better race.
Look at tourneys. When played to their fulliest potential it seems Toss is winning more. True this is more curcumstancial evidence but I'll take a progamer's play over the average joe.
Day9 said that rather than call something imba, try to figure out how to beat it. White-Ra, NonY, IdrA, Orb, TLO, Day9 and Artosis have all found ways to beat Terran. It's possible.
They also generally aren't playing against the best terrans from korea though, except for artosis and idra. I'd actually like to see white-ra or nony try their luck against them; tbh I think they'd lose.
On May 26 2010 00:03 Skyze wrote: I really think it should be as simple as this...
TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.
Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.
bullshit he picks terran because its his best race , he beats even top terrans in tvts how dare u say he wins in tvz only because of advantage (do u think he plays tvt's because he feels he has racial advantege) you are such a whinny cry baby, everywhere i see u r posts u complain about zerg being weak and underpowered even tho all recent tournaments are dominated by zergs
On May 26 2010 00:03 Skyze wrote: I really think it should be as simple as this...
TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.
Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.
bullshit he picks terran because its his best race , he beats even top terrans in tvts how dare u say he wins in tvz only because of advantage (do u think he plays tvt's because he feels he has racial advantege) you are such a whinny cry baby, everywhere i see u r posts u complain about zerg being weak and underpowered even tho all recent tournaments are dominated by zergs
and every post you make is crying how bad terrans are.. You are a fucking terran crybaby, stop defending your race when its VERY OBVIOUS they are the strongest, as the 16 pages here by non-biased people + every other fucking thread.
TLO picks terran because it gives him the best chance of winning. END OF STORY. Did I say he ONLY plays TvZ?? No, He can play any matchup, like TvT too, because he was a RANDOM PLAYER.. but he knows terran will win him games in the other two matchups easy, and he can play TvT decent enough to win.
Even more korean pros are switching to terran, as Artosis has said, and terrans have won every major tournament in the month of May. Show me where tournaments were "dominated" by zergs?? Just about every tournament in recent memory that has been listed on TL.net, besides the HDH has been won by a terran.
PS; Im a PROTOSS player.. why would I care if zerg is weak? I never said zerg is weak EVER, I think they will be the scariest race once the game has actual balance, but TvZ is retarded right now everyone knows that, as does TLO which is why hes beating Freedom and Check, players way better than him, with relative ease.
On May 26 2010 00:03 Skyze wrote: I really think it should be as simple as this...
TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.
Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.
bullshit he picks terran because its his best race , he beats even top terrans in tvts how dare u say he wins in tvz only because of advantage (do u think he plays tvt's because he feels he has racial advantege) you are such a whinny cry baby, everywhere i see u r posts u complain about zerg being weak and underpowered even tho all recent tournaments are dominated by zergs
and every post you make is crying how bad terrans are.. You are a fucking terran crybaby, stop defending your race when its VERY OBVIOUS they are the strongest, as the 16 pages here by non-biased people + every other fucking thread.
TLO picks terran because it gives him the best chance of winning. END OF STORY. Did I say he ONLY plays TvZ?? No, He can play any matchup, like TvT too, because he was a RANDOM PLAYER.. but he knows terran will win him games in the other two matchups easy, and he can play TvT decent enough to win.
Even more korean pros are switching to terran, as Artosis has said, and terrans have won every major tournament in the month of May. Show me where tournaments were "dominated" by zergs?? Just about every tournament in recent memory that has been listed on TL.net, besides the HDH has been won by a terran.
PS; Im a PROTOSS player.. why would I care if zerg is weak? I never said zerg is weak EVER, I think they will be the scariest race once the game has actual balance, but TvZ is retarded right now everyone knows that, as does TLO which is why hes beating Freedom and Check, players way better than him, with relative ease.
I dunno dude that statistic stuff is kinda dumb. Demuslim said Terran is weakest since the start of the beta and he isn't biased at all. I'll take his word on it.
On May 26 2010 00:20 Skyze wrote: Just about every tournament in recent memory that has been listed on TL.net, besides the HDH has been won by a terran.
lets take the latest biggest event : HDH. The only terran who went further than Ro16 is CauthonLuck, out in Ro8. All other Terran have been kicked in Ro16, and those Terran were (are) very talented, otherwise they wouldn't have been choosed. Thx.
Blizzard balance makers love terran. It is ridicilous that they don't do anything with marauders. The unit that destroys anything on the ground including buildings. I was sure that TLO will pick terran. I hate that I have to play terran coz it really frustrates me when MM stimrols my army in matter of seconds eventhough I put more effort and have twice APM
APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
lu_cid United States. May 11 2010 10:47. nice interview.
Pretty bold to say that terran is the strongest without any good players to back it up though... [/wiki][/quote][/spoiler] Have you watched any of the SC2 Europe vs Asia? I believe Asia hasn't lost a series yet.
On May 26 2010 00:03 Skyze wrote: I really think it should be as simple as this...
TLO, a random user for the first 10 patches, now RACEPICKS terran because it gives him the best chance to win tournaments.
Not because thats his "favorite race"... because with a strat he invented, hes about 50-2 in TvZ, beating even the top korean zergs. That is insanely retarded.
bullshit he picks terran because its his best race , he beats even top terrans in tvts how dare u say he wins in tvz only because of advantage (do u think he plays tvt's because he feels he has racial advantege) you are such a whinny cry baby, everywhere i see u r posts u complain about zerg being weak and underpowered even tho all recent tournaments are dominated by zergs
and every post you make is crying how bad terrans are.. You are a fucking terran crybaby, stop defending your race when its VERY OBVIOUS they are the strongest, as the 16 pages here by non-biased people + every other fucking thread.
TLO picks terran because it gives him the best chance of winning. END OF STORY. Did I say he ONLY plays TvZ?? No, He can play any matchup, like TvT too, because he was a RANDOM PLAYER.. but he knows terran will win him games in the other two matchups easy, and he can play TvT decent enough to win.
Even more korean pros are switching to terran, as Artosis has said, and terrans have won every major tournament in the month of May. Show me where tournaments were "dominated" by zergs?? Just about every tournament in recent memory that has been listed on TL.net, besides the HDH has been won by a terran.
PS; Im a PROTOSS player.. why would I care if zerg is weak? I never said zerg is weak EVER, I think they will be the scariest race once the game has actual balance, but TvZ is retarded right now everyone knows that, as does TLO which is why hes beating Freedom and Check, players way better than him, with relative ease.
you are so full of shit its unbelievable, tlo already said his best race is terran and thats why he picks it in most games check is nowhere as good as tlo i have no idea where did u get that shit from, im not surprised tho everything u write is based on pure theorycrafting, white-ra won with check 2-0 while tlo managed to beat him everytime he rolled zerg, btw hdh final was between ra and idra i have no idea where do u see terran there LOL so many flaws in your post, you dont know recent results so you decided to make them up, basically everything you said is wrong and you whole opinion is based on artosis article whos known from being biased and everything he says should be taken with grain of salt
just to let you know how zergs fare in recent tournaments because u seem to be completely clueless in that matter (quote is not mine sadly i forgot who wrote that ;/)
Look at the ASM Cup 2 for example. 13/32 were zerg, then 10/16, then 7/8 and lastly a complete shutout at 4/4. (It's worth noting that only 1 of those 13 zergs had a stint as a bw pro so these are mostly players who don't have the Artosis seal of approval)
Here in this World Cup we had 13/32 and now 9/16 are zerg. (4 of 13 were ex pros here)
Do people seriously believe that results like these are due to a skill gap between those players who chose zerg and those who chose protoss and terran? Really?
Edit - If Tester, Rainbow, Spunky, Silver and other strong players switched to zerg and Cool, Freedom, Thewind, Sirasoni, SoO and so on switched to protoss/terran would we really see a big shift in the racial balance?
ps FYI .im random player and probably played zerg as main race more than any other race
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.
On May 11 2010 12:11 RatherGood wrote: I think he's absolutely right about Terran. People are just playing it completely wrong. Tanks are strong. Stop rushing for Starports, Christ. It hurts to watch players mindlessly base all their strategies around such fragile units that are so easily counterable.
Fragile units that are easily counterable? Sounds like tanks vs protoss. Vs prtosss if you don't have an early starport you die to voidrays. So its not like its a choice.
Did you not watch the interview? The point is not to make an early starport and put pressure on the protoss, like FD. Basically, if you see them going void ray rush, they're gonna die to your marine and tank force. If they're not, you pull back and defend. This hard counters void rays so you don't have to make an early starport.
well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.
This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
The thing is that medivacs cant heal and pick up/drop of units at the same time
In point of fact, we don't have a large enough statistical sampling of good players to be making any judgment calls even about who are the really good players, let alone balance calls from that data. There have been a decent number of tournaments, sure, but not enough to identify more than a dozen or so good players. All we have is conjecture, and unfortunately, much, if not most of that conjecture, is from people who's skill level is nowhere near pro.
That said, with the current metagame in mind, I completely agree with Tester that the Terrans are doing it wrong. I can only speak from a ZvT perspective, but in that matchup, it appears that most Terrans are still obsessed with a base MMM army, with maybe a smattering of tanks. I can tell you with complete honesty, as a Zerg playing a Terran, when I see he's going mass MMM, I quietly thank him for the easy win. MMM has nothing on the new style Zerg, where Roaches play a minor part, if any part at all. TLO, and a couple of other terrans, appear to be the only ones who get it. As Zerg, I fear Mech, but only Mech executed correctly. It is not uncounterable, since I can still abuse their lack of mobility, but it is far, far harder to pull a win than it is vs MMM.
On May 26 2010 01:14 Skyze wrote: well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.
This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.
LIAR, first of all marine balls are useless because balenings and collosus counter this very easily. i say this because i was and currently i am #1 in my division and i am a terran pplayer as well so dont give me this crap, you probably used tanks, or something to back them up because marine balls are useless.
Regardless, I find it abit sad that people cant look beyond the current "metagame" and not see potential. There is immense potential for all races currently which will shift things when they are discovered and ofc this will happen throughout the beta - discluding balance changes.
Are there really that many players (particularly protoss players) out there that still have not figured out how to deal with an MMM ball? What in the world have you been doing all beta long?
I can't say much regarding ZvT, but I haven't seen anything in PvT that strikes me as being particularly unbalanced or unfair. In fact, I think it's a pretty fun and even matchup right now. Also, I wouldn't make much out of terran success at the highest levels of the game right now. For one, whatever imbalance there may be at that level of play probably won't make a hill of beans worth of difference at the average player's level. Second, the game is still very young and the dynamics are changing with every patch. Have a little patience.
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.
Doens't change the fact, that a Protoss army usually needs more micro. What do you micro in your MMM ball after using Stim? I guess micro units back und forth, focuse important units, perhaps putting some in a Medivac. You have to do that with the Protoss army, too, but on top u have to use FF, be really carefull with your Collossi, need well placed Storms etc.
I'd like to find a random player who actually thinks protoss players are harder "apm wise" or micro/macro w/e than terran.
Protoss players seem to think that spamming forcefields is super skillful. Hell, I haven't seen many players do it effectively like i think white ra with the checker board [50% block out a concave, 50% block retreat of the remaining units combined with the two block forcefields UXUXUX XUXUXU X = forcefields U = units.
Zerg is mostly about moving around the screen all the time with queen spewing overlord creeping creep tumours and unit positioning. [not that many people do more than 1a] Not too much to do on a given screen so its not so much "apm"
I don't think ZvT is imbalanced I just think that people need to abuse drops and maybe nydus worms for retreat a lot more against mech play. It's not an easy way to play but i think mech is only really strong in head up battles which is not what you want to be comitting to as zerg.
On May 26 2010 01:36 Slayer91 wrote: I'd like to find a random player who actually thinks protoss players are harder "apm wise" or micro/macro w/e than terran.
Protoss players seem to think that spamming forcefields is super skillful. Hell, I haven't seen many players do it effectively like i think white ra with the checker board [50% block out a concave, 50% block retreat of the remaining units combined with the two block forcefields UXUXUX XUXUXU X = forcefields U = units.
Zerg is mostly about moving around the screen all the time with queen spewing overlord creeping creep tumours and unit positioning. [not that many people do more than 1a] Not too much to do on a given screen so its not so much "apm"
I don't think ZvT is imbalanced I just think that people need to abuse drops and maybe nydus worms for retreat a lot more against mech play. It's not an easy way to play but i think mech is only really strong in head up battles which is not what you want to be comitting to as zerg.
Agreed - any BW Terran player who's come to SC2 is going to laugh at the notion of Toss being "harder". Even funnier is a poster actually suggested that blink "micro" is tough. I mean - wow.
On May 26 2010 01:14 Skyze wrote: well when ive played terran, I've beaten 2000+ protoss/zerg with ease, attack moving my MMM ball. Its comical. I actually was losing games trying to be cute with hellion/etc, then just switch back to MMM and walk thru every unit in the game, including collosus.
This was even before the latest patch which makes stim/health cheaper. I can only imagine now.
LIAR, first of all marine balls are useless because balenings and collosus counter this very easily. i say this because i was and currently i am #1 in my division and i am a terran pplayer as well so dont give me this crap, you probably used tanks, or something to back them up because marine balls are useless.
Yea see no one cares about your rank or divison. Not being mean but they typicaly hold no weight around here.
Artosis, this might seem far-fetched .... but can you add some subtitle for when the korean translator is speaking? i cannot seem to understand him unless i up my volume really high
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.
Doens't change the fact, that a Protoss army usually needs more micro. What do you micro in your MMM ball after using Stim? I guess micro units back und forth, focuse important units, perhaps putting some in a Medivac. You have to do that with the Protoss army, too, but on top u have to use FF, be really carefull with your Collossi, need well placed Storms etc.
Requires more micro does not equate imbalance. PvT in SC1 is far more mechanically demanding for the Terran player than the Protoss player. That doesn't make the matchup imbalanced.
On May 26 2010 01:44 MindRush wrote: Artosis, this might seem far-fetched .... but can you add some subtitle for when the korean translator is speaking? i cannot seem to understand him unless i up my volume really high
I'd download it as an FLV and play it in something like MPC (where it normalizes volume). I do agree though, even with higher volume, a mic would really help in future interviews so we aren't straining to hear the translation.
On May 26 2010 00:59 Skyze wrote: I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Against an MMM ball you use STORM (yes yes emp... but you can feedback and SPREAD your army), you use collossae (which destroy MMM) and you destroy his marauders with immortals.
You will NEVER hear 1 good protoss player whine about MMM.
I love how everyones talking about TLO in a Tester thread. Every race has its easy/hard shit, I swear for a website that has rules, the lot of you men act like women. Just accept things for what they are, stop being bad at the game, and figure a way to beat what youre having problems with, instead of crying all the time. Thats all I see In the sc2 threads...whining. The games not even out yet ffs. Get good, discuss on how to improve instead talking about something that has nothing to do with this thread. Tester FTW!
So basically Terran is the "protoss" of BW? We saw how that worked for toss in esports...
So far the parallel is working with the current big tournies. We very well could see an all zerg semis in the World Cup and no terran got past the ro8 in HDH (was only 1 in it).
I suppose it still stands that noone has "mastered" the race but that can be said for each race. Terran might end up having the most options and diversity but again just look at toss in BW which was the easy, cheesy, diverse race.
On May 26 2010 01:36 Slayer91 wrote: I'd like to find a random player who actually thinks protoss players are harder "apm wise" or micro/macro w/e than terran.
Protoss players seem to think that spamming forcefields is super skillful. Hell, I haven't seen many players do it effectively like i think white ra with the checker board [50% block out a concave, 50% block retreat of the remaining units combined with the two block forcefields UXUXUX XUXUXU X = forcefields U = units.
Zerg is mostly about moving around the screen all the time with queen spewing overlord creeping creep tumours and unit positioning. [not that many people do more than 1a] Not too much to do on a given screen so its not so much "apm"
I don't think ZvT is imbalanced I just think that people need to abuse drops and maybe nydus worms for retreat a lot more against mech play. It's not an easy way to play but i think mech is only really strong in head up battles which is not what you want to be comitting to as zerg.
Agreed - any BW Terran player who's come to SC2 is going to laugh at the notion of Toss being "harder". Even funnier is a poster actually suggested that blink "micro" is tough. I mean - wow.
I don't get the point here. They would also laugh at SC2 Terran (maybe even more), if we look at MMM play.
On May 26 2010 00:49 Origine wrote: APM doesn't do all, many things can make a battle turn in another way, army positioning, using Immo's to focus heavy units etc.. if you just 1A (but the worst is that 1A works pretty well with toss) then don't cry -_-
Not really.. Protoss is the race that you have to micro the most, cant just 1A at all.. properly placed forcefields are nessisary (as we've seen in 17173 tourney, forget who it was but some toss (maybe WhiteRa?) did some bad forcefeilds, blocking out his zeals and he lost because of it with a bigger army).. Then you got storms, blink, etc..
Nothing gets more attack-move than MMM. Press stim then run them in, dont have to do anything and you clear out everything in the game. Maybe get a ghost where your insane EMP radius takes out every shield with 1 shot, there goes all templar/sentry mana, then stim 1A gg.
The saving grace in BW which made M&M balanced was the fact that medics were stupid at times, ran around and were dumb.. now with medivacs, they can never be out of position, always floating ahead, and they can even pick up weak units if the terran decides to do something more than 1A, not like they need it though.
I am scared when someone who is head and shoulders dominant like Moon or Jaedong comes to SC2, they are going to make MMM look unbeatable, microing each dying marine into dropships and such.
Are you an idiot? MMM ball takes micro if you are not bad. You obviously are terran raging, and can't beat MMM ball. Please quit making blanket statements, because I micro my marauders and marines.
Doens't change the fact, that a Protoss army usually needs more micro. What do you micro in your MMM ball after using Stim? I guess micro units back und forth, focuse important units, perhaps putting some in a Medivac. You have to do that with the Protoss army, too, but on top u have to use FF, be really carefull with your Collossi, need well placed Storms etc.
Requires more micro does not equate imbalance. PvT in SC1 is far more mechanically demanding for the Terran player than the Protoss player. That doesn't make the matchup imbalanced.
EPT
maybe interview ppl when they r not drunk/tired? minor tip
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